305,000 dollars is it?

3

31incher

Active Member
Messages
350
Can't believe the antelope island tag only went for 305,000. What steal! Should get 2 or 3 tags at such a great price.
 
Was it the regular hero for all wildlife?
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Well I Screwed that up!

Thought the Auction was tonight and I was gonna Bid it Up a ways!:D

Don't look like they needed my LOW Ball Bid Help!:D

Does the Deed for the Island come with it?









[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
There are some big deer out there. Two of the best have been put down the last two years. Law of diminishing returns. Doesn't Denny buying this tag year after year, when I have no doubt Doyle knows of bigger deer elsewhere pretty much prove what I already knew. This hunt is nothing more than a high fence, fly in, pull a trigger, fly out circle jerk? Doyle has every deer out there named, despite opinions, not one trophy buck left the island(funny how islands work, they are surrounded by water), why else would Denny buy that tag again? Two reasons, and two only. #1 It is a 25 min. drive from the Ogden airport. He can touch down, drive out, shoot that deer, frown in a pic, hand doyle a couple hundred for his efforts, drive back and be wheels up by noon.(He has yet to take more than 1 day to complete his previous "hunts") #2 Short shlong. I hear the argument, "if you had his money you would do it to". I don't hunt tame deer so no, but lets pretend I did. Lets pretend I was as concerned for habitat as he is(insert loud cough). I wouldn't want it known that I dropped $300k on some deer. I don't need to be publically worshipped that bad. I don't need to be the #1 Alpha male so bad. I wouldn't want every keyboard clown in Utah to use me as example #1 of whats wrong with hunting. I would quietly, perhaps via phone purchase a tag and not use my name. Even if you have $300k to drop on a deer so tame bambi bullies it, most of us wouldn't NEED the attention as badly as he does.

Lastly, I hope Denny can buy some snow, because at the rate we are going that island is going to be tinder for this summers lightning storms!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Sounds like a win win for evrybody except for envious that dwell on how unfair it is.
 
>Sounds like a win win for
>evrybody except for envious that
>dwell on how unfair it
>is.


***Here we go with the ENVY BS again, LOL!
 
Way to go state parks!!

I heard Bountiful 5th ward has a Henry's tag
They plan to auction to pay for their 24th of July
Float.

Don't forget about the SL cemetery tag, they
Need a new mower.

A guide for AI. Classic.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Pitiful is living in Texas trolling the utah subjects. Pitiful is hiring a guide to hunt tame deer. Pitiful is supporting hunting a small grass covered island. Pitiful is the state of Utah for letting SFW have this hunt. Pitiful is believing that it is anything other than what it is, target shooting on something living. I had a harder time getting to the bntfl. gun range this morning than he will getting to deer on AI, and I don't consider the shots I made there to be hunting, I simply pulled the trigger. He can spend as much as he wants, but don't try to sell it, be honest, it cost him $305k to get a deer this easy. The only one who benefitted at all is Doyle, he just made his years wages, good for him. The grass and sagebrush out there will remain the same before and after Denny.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-14 AT 01:44PM (MST)[p]Whats the difference between a hunter and a shooter??
For you there is none.






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-14 AT 02:50PM (MST)[p]Your a bunch of clowns... this guy can do whatever the hell he pleases. He's not taking anything away from us hunters by flying in and paying obscene amounts for his trophy on the Island. He's a great guy and very charitable as well. Im speaking of Denny not Doyle. Water your own law fellas.

AMEN Tristate

"I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains!"

 
I think the word penis was used when describing the BMOMM.com
You guys are amazing. Here is an old man helping out wildlife by donating tons of cash and you plicks feel the need to criticize the way he hunts. I'm sure he DOES NOT post chit about guys (haters) because they do not donate as much money as he does. He probably appreciates the leg work that many of you do to help support wildlife. Some of you need to go sleep in the hen house.
 
Once killing a mule deer buck on an island
Supported by an army of guides becomes a
Hunt I'll gladly STFU. Until then it is what it is.
Captive target practice.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>Once killing a mule deer buck
>on an island
>Supported by an army of guides
>becomes a
>Hunt I'll gladly STFU. Until then
>it is what it is.
>
>Captive target practice.
>
>
>
>
>"The future is large scale auction
>tags.
>The majority of the tags should
>go up
>for auction anually. It MIGHT even
>be
>good to allow second sales of
>auction
>tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
>
>and then re-selling them to the
>public."
>TRISTATE 8/17/2012

+1. I would have much more respect for Denny Austad if he simply donated the money for the good of the species and habitat preservaton, and then went out and hunted like the rest of us. I feel he can just justify 'buying' his animals with the excuse that he's a "conservationist." As part of the younger generation of hunters I sure as heck don't look up to the guy.. I admire true hunters, not trigger pullers.

Coloradoboy
 
Denny doesn't justify squat to any of you! It's amazing you think you are so damn high and mighty you feel people need to justify totally legal actions TO YOU! Give your arrogance a rest. You aren't as important and righteous as you think you are.
 
I think Denny's justification may be geared toward himself and his arrogance and self righteousness. Is HE important? mtmuley
 
Not to me he isn't. He doesn't have the slightest effect on whether I enjoy hunting or not. By the way I have never once seen Denny act arrogant or self-righteous on these forums. I can't say the same for you.
 
Wait a minute. I was not self righteous nor arrogant. Just presenting a thought. Do you know his motivation behind purchasing these tags? Please share. I don't care for big money tags and hunting, but that's a subject well hashed out and I know your views. As far as I know Denny is not on these forums. Neither you nor I know his intentions, I admit was wrong for the implications. mtmuley
 
I do not know Denny. Do not know his intentions. Couldn't care less about the deer he kills. It means zero to me hunting and having fun. If I misunderstood your question for a statement I apologize.
 
But you consider these fiasco's hunting says pretty much
all anybody needs to know.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Why not just go buy an angus from the local rancher
and pop it behind the ear with a .22??






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Denny (like any other hunter) has every right to hunt where ever he wishes. How he (or any other hunter) uses his money and time is his business. The man is doing nothing wrong by participating in a legal hunt. If some find this type of hunt objectionable then the state should be pressed to end it.

Eldorado
 
I dont know Denny, with that being said, i love to hunt muledeer not just shoot them. Did you catch that? HUNT muledeer!! You guys can call it what you want, but being a trigger man is certainly not hunting by any definition. Also having a group of guys babysitting a trophy animal for some rich or lazy guy just to atv in and jerk the trigger is fricking cheesy.
 
>Why not just go buy an
>angus from the local rancher
>
>and pop it behind the ear
>with a .22??
>


Couldn't care less if he does.
 
Is Troy Gentry (the guy that killed cubby) a hunter??




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
On an ISLAND with no other hunters, a dozen or so spotters and guides and you consider this a hunt?





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Agree 100% El. Nothing illegal about this in any way
but it certainly pushes the bounds of fair chase.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I don't know much about Denny other than what is posted on here. However, I do remember seeing the episode of Outdoors where he bought and donated a mule deer tag to a young man on the Pauns Unit.

Why aren't the Buff hunters on AI getting hammered? Or the draw tag for deer on AI? Is it because they aren't rich? Are we mad because Denny bought the tag VS drawing it?

I could care less what a man does with his money.
 
Who gives a sh!t if it's a "hunt" or not by your standards! And what does it take away from any of us? It certainly doesn't affect me or anything to do with my own hunting opportunities. If the dude wants to blow his hard earned life savings from his obviously very successful career, so be it!! At least he's not blowing his green wad on buying up mule deer wintering habitat to be destroyed by million dollar homes and people residing in them complaining about deer in their yards eating landscape, he's paying for habitat for an entire island preservation for hundreds of deer, buffalo and bighorn sheep!!
Good on you Denny, I hope next year you "donate" $350k for another fantastic opportunity!! :)


avatar-1.png
 
Don't have an opinion one way or another about Denny or hunting AI. What do you think Mossback charges denny for a guided hunt? 305,000 plus guide fees is a ton of money. His money, I guess he can spend it however he want.
 
Outstanding question Elk.

Personally, it irks me that this hunt was set up
as an auction hunt and the public tag is a byproduct
of the auction tag. Many non hunters in Davis County
don't like the hunt and many hunters don't consider
this hunt fair chase.

I honestly never have heard anyone think the buff hunt was anything other than a population control shoot.

Old bald dudes 2 cents.






"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Is it a hunt by your standards slammy??




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Isn't this tag an auction tag. If so, it takes at least TWO people to bid against one another for the price to keep going up. I don't see anyone bagging on the guy that ran Denny to the tune of $305,000. Just my thoughts.
 
Wiley, were you watching the island hun? A dozen guides/spotters? I got news for you. Its not allowed. Doyle and 1 other persons was allowed access to the island to scout. On the hunt, Denny Doyle, Caryn, and 1 guide went after the deer, with one spotter on top. Denny aint a young man who can hike like you true hunters, so he picked the easiest hunt. Heck, so did I when I hunted.

Yelum

Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.
 
Yelum, Denny has two working legs he could ride a horse or hike! I am not against the AI hunt, I personally think there should be more buff tags instead of the round up sale off. Lets get people out of the uniting pool by giving more AI buff tags, but its not much more then a glorified canned hunt to a point. I know the animals can move about but when has someone not harvested on any of the deer or sheep hunts? I am unsure if anyone who hunted the buffs failed to kill but I am sure the kill rate is extremely high there too. Like I said I am not against it but it is what it is.
 
You guys have some things wrong here. I'm not going to defend this point but simply state it. The hunt may be easy for the hunter due to the fact that he pays someone to find the deer for him, An expert with a lot of experience in guiding for big game.
The deer are nowhere near tame. The island is limited access with very few open range activities every year. The deer are hardly around people and are definitely skittish as any high mountain deer if not more so. If they get spooked they will run for a mile or two without stopping. However with hardly any tree cover it can make hiding a little tricky for a deer with a huge rack.
Thirdly, it is definitely an easy hunt given the fact that more than 90% of the island has next to no tree cover and high points to glass the endless sage brush and open grasslands making it relatively easy to glass up big bucks in.
Canned hunt for a tame deer? No
An easy hunt for the guy paying 300k plus guiding fees to go hunt a deer the way he wants to hunt it. Most definitely
"I've hunted almost every day of my life, The rest
have been wasted"
 
>You guys have some things wrong
>here. I'm not going to
>defend this point but simply
>state it. The hunt may
>be easy for the hunter
>due to the fact that
>he pays someone to find
>the deer for him, An
>expert with a lot of
>experience in guiding for big
>game.
> The deer
>are nowhere near tame. The
>island is limited access with
>very few open range activities
>every year. The deer are
>hardly around people and are
>definitely skittish as any high
>mountain deer if not more
>so. If they get spooked
>they will run for a
>mile or two without stopping.
>However with hardly any tree
>cover it can make hiding
>a little tricky for a
>deer with a huge rack.
>
>Thirdly, it is definitely an easy
>hunt given the fact that
>more than 90% of the
>island has next to no
>tree cover and high points
>to glass the endless sage
>brush and open grasslands making
>it relatively easy to glass
>up big bucks in.
>Canned hunt for a tame deer?
>No
>An easy hunt for the guy
>paying 300k plus guiding fees
>to go hunt a deer
>the way he wants to
>hunt it. Most definitely
>"I've hunted almost every day of
>my life, The rest
>have been wasted"

Well said.
 
Great post trophy, definitely not canned
Definitely not fair chase.

Yelum, my 12 guides comment wasn't literal.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>Great post trophy, definitely not canned
>
>Definitely not fair chase.
>
>Yelum, my 12 guides comment wasn't
>literal.


Wiley, I think most of your comments are not literal.
Unless we're talking literal trash talking crap.
Then we may be getting somewhere.



There's always next year
 
Ridge for the most part you are correct.

Wether I'm obnoxious, a trash talking fool
Or just an ass doesn't change the fact that killing
A deer on AI is not fair chase.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Wiley......I don't put a "standard" on anyone's hunt, it is what that person feels it is. I see no sense or logic in going to Africa just t shoot as many animals as I can afford while wearing tennis shoes either, but I don't dog on my friends that do.
Nor do I call a fisherman a cheater for using cheese or worms versus a man using a fly or lure.......just sayin ;-)



avatar-1.png
 
>Wiley......I don't put a "standard" on
>anyone's hunt, it is what
>that person feels it is.
>I see no sense or
>logic in going to Africa
>just t shoot as many
>animals as I can afford
>while wearing tennis shoes either,
>but I don't dog on
>my friends that do.
>Nor do I call a fisherman
>a cheater for using cheese
>or worms versus a man
>using a fly or lure.......just
>sayin ;-)
>
>
>
>
avatar-1.png



This may be true but I think it would be more fair to use a different analogy. Like fishing at a fish hatchery. Look I don't care to much about the "hunt". Just like I don't care if people hunt high fence or wanna shoot their cow in the back yard. Let's just call it what it is. Good for him to have that much money. He should be able to spend it how he wants. I just hope the money goes to good use.
 
Slammy, I respect your opinion but respectfully
Disagree, we all place standards every time we see
A farm bull and to some extent a corn clinger buck.

Im Sure Denny is a great,generous man. But c'mon
Man the animal is at a disadvantage here.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
Antelope Island is definitely not comparable to a "fish hatchery". That island is huge and it's not like the deer get backed up to a fence or the waters edge for crying out loud. I have spent a fair enough of time out there doing sheep transplants and it feels no different than a mountainous setting and IS anything but a "canned hunt".
I don't see anyone dogging on the draw hunter who hunts it, is his hunt different simply because he utilizes friends and family to help him harvest his 250" buck?
Bingo........this all boils down to one thing.......money.




avatar-1.png
 
So where do we draw a line on what's "fair chase"? I have clients using .338 lapua's with Nightforce scopes using wind meters and software on the mountain to make 1000 yard shots on 400" bulls, does anyone want to explain how that's fair chase in comparison to anything Denny is doing?
I have hunted with Denny plenty of times, that guy can do whatever it takes to get the job done, he can hike and he can shoot. In fact, the older he gets, the better he must be able to shoot!! :)


avatar-1.png
 
I guess I brought this on myself cause I'm not
That smart. I'll own the MM ethics police banner
On this.

Killing an animal at 1000 yards means you are a highly skilled
Shooter. Killing an animal at 25, 100, 200 yards means you
Are a skilled hunter.

Blast away I deserve it.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I still luv ya WW, it's just a friendly debate amongst fellow nimrods.
For the record, I'm not intending to defend one person in particular here, im simply debating the situation.




avatar-1.png
 
Back at ya slammy!!

"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I love how this reading comprehension thing just skips half the people on here. I never said AI is a canned hunt I said its almost a canned hunt. Its only missing a fence lol, okay maybe not that much but the gist is hunts out there although not bad are not the same as going to the Henries.
 
Ya your right, dslayer. I can picture Denny right now chasing those giant bucks with a spear from beach to beach, east side to west, north to south just to make a "hunt" out of it.....all while wearing nothing but his speedo and boat shoes! :)
Don't for get to tell all the people that hunt giant brown bears on Kodiak Island that they aren't "real hunters" ;-)




avatar-1.png
 
"Don't for get to tell all the people that hunt giant brown bears on Kodiak Island that they aren't "real hunters""

That says a lot right there.

I hunt blacktails in California. Hunting public land can be super tough. Straight up and down mountains hunting a deer that is 90% nocturnal during hunting season. Temperatures in the 90's. I've gone many seasons hunting hard and not seeing one legal buck, but I sure felt like a man.

At one point I got onto a private ranch. There were three locked gates to go through to reach the ranch. During the season I could drive from the cabin out into the oaks and see bucks bedded down out in the open every day. They wouldn't even get up unless I stopped. The only issue was which buck do I want to end my season on.

Was I less of a hunter because I took the opportunity to hunt such an awesome place? I highly doubt that any of you would pass up this ranch to hunt public land.

Eel
 
Still my fellow Utards I never said he was less of a hunter, or anything like that. All I stated is AI is a easier hunt than the Henries and is as close to a canned hunt as can be while still hunting wild bucks (added some to clarify). I did not feel I needed to spell out the wild bucks part as its a given isn't it? The Kodiak Island comment is mute as the largest island in the chain is 5,000+ square miles the second largest where a lot of hunts have taken place for deer and bear is 1,000+ square miles vs. AI which is 42 square miles. That is a huge difference in land mass and size. When a island is 100 mile in one direction it makes a big difference in fair chase. Heck some hunting units are less than 100 miles in one direction and they are still considered fair chaise. Needless to say if you choose to argue that because Kodiak brown bear hunts are on a island and the AI deer hunts are on a island so they are the same at least have a decent argument. The fact is island size is a huge factor, access is another.
 
Anyone that thinks Kodiak Island can be compared to AI has never stepped foot in it...
I spent 14 days out there, two springs ago on my dads bear hunt and it was one of the toughest hunts I've ever been apart of....

Coloradoboy
 
Have any of you ever been to a Limited Entry Unit, those deer are just as dumb as the Island bucks I bet, they're just not as big, so basicly the only difference is the antler size of most of the deer you are seeing, I guarantee that if you draw a LE tag in the state of utah the only reason you didnt kill a buck is because you passed on them all, or missed your shot.

Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
I live on Afognak Island which is part of the Kodiak Islands. Comparing hunting on AI to Kodiak is way off! But I see your point.

As far as hunting AI for deer, if I had the money like Dennis does, I'd toss my wad of cash down, waltz right through the front gates of Antelope Island and I'd thunder-d(i)ck the biggest buck there. And nobody could make me feel bad about it. This hunt is what it is and Dennis has never made it look like it was more than a fun hunt on an island.


For long distance dial 1-800-338-EDGE
 
Why can't you guys just admit you hate Denny because he's rich? You don't hate the draw hunter. You don't hate the sheep hunters or bison hunters. Well, maybe you do. There's definitely no shortage of hate on this site.

What gets me is why your definition of hunting has to be the standard for everyone. Can you tell me why that is? And while you're at it, please tell us all what a "true hunter" is. There seems to be a few of you here. Please tell those of us that have been doing it wrong for all these decades what a "true hunter" is, so that we may strive to be that.

Somebody that obviously has never met Mr. Austed accused him of being self-righteous and arrogant. You guys do realize how self righteous and arrogant YOU sound...right??
 
>Who gives a sh!t if it's
>a "hunt" or not by
>your standards! And what does
>it take away from any
>of us? It certainly doesn't
>affect me or anything to
>do with my own hunting
>opportunities. If the dude wants
>to blow his hard earned
>life savings from his obviously
>very successful career, so be
>it!! At least he's not
>blowing his green wad on
>buying up mule deer wintering
>habitat to be destroyed by
>million dollar homes and people
>residing in them complaining about
>deer in their yards eating
>landscape, he's paying for habitat
>for an entire island preservation
>for hundreds of deer, buffalo
>and bighorn sheep!!
>Good on you Denny, I hope
>next year you "donate" $350k
>for another fantastic opportunity!! :)
>
>
>
>
avatar-1.png



I couldn't have said it better myself.
Good luck in the draws everyone.
PS if you could pay an extra $100 and have your tags garunteed, would you? I would.
Happy hunting.
Instagram @luckyoutdoors
 
>Why can't you guys just admit
>you hate Denny because he's
>rich? You don't hate the
>draw hunter. You don't hate
>the sheep hunters or bison
>hunters. Well, maybe you do.
>There's definitely no shortage of
>hate on this site.
>
>What gets me is why your
>definition of hunting has to
>be the standard for everyone.
>Can you tell me why
>that is? And while you're
>at it, please tell us
>all what a "true hunter"
>is. There seems to be
>a few of you here.
>Please tell those of us
>that have been doing it
>wrong for all these decades
>what a "true hunter" is,
>so that we may strive
>to be that.
>
>Somebody that obviously has never met
>Mr. Austed accused him of
>being self-righteous and arrogant. You
>guys do realize how self
>righteous and arrogant YOU sound...right??
>
>
>
>
>
>

The AI hunt was not given to SFW to reward draw hunters. The hunt came about because SFW guaranteed 6 figures. The draw tag was put in to try to make us less digusted by shooting deer out there. A friend of mine met Denny and Doyle eating sushi last fall. They were having a good time, and offered to buy my friend drinks. He said they were perfectly nice guys. My personal opinion is that he has become extremely lazy and that is why he buys this tag. The island has beautiful deer, but by no means are they the biggest in the state. They are however the easiest trophy deer in the state, perhaps the west, and that is why he buys it.

I hate this shoot. I don't like the sheep hunt either. The buffalo shoot I don't understand either. It is the example that if I was an anti would use every time. An old, lazy, millionaire, who long ago quit hunting to hunt, now shoots for book recognition, spends hundreds of thousands to get an island for himself, in the heart of the rut, to shoot barely wild deer. I greatly dislike the group that got him this oppourtunity(SFW), and HATE the saleout that the state of UTAH has done to all of us with the expo. I have been against it from day one, in fact, I was against it when Karl Malone was making noise about it.

The reality is Denny will someday go away, and some other dude who needs recognition more than he needs money will buy this tag, and he will then get to be the focus of my rath.

AI and Kodiak island? Perhaps the dumbest comparison I have heard. The fact that guys even entertain this thought, shows you have never seen AI, and therefore have no idea how sad this hunt REALLY IS.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Hoss,

I am the one that made the comment about Kodiak and AI in another thread. It was sarcasm at its finest, but no one seemed to get that. I made the ridiculous analogy because that's all this nonsense is, RIDICULOUS. The man could hunt big mule deer anywhere he wants, for a fraction of what he paid for that tag. The Jicarilla Rez, in my home state of NM has some of the biggest deer in the country on its 850,000 acres and has a 100% success rate. So is that a canned hunt too? Or because its over 1,000 square miles is it different? What about White Mtn Apache Rez? Monster Bulls to be had for a fraction of what he paid for the Gov tag.
So his motives are exactly that, his. It is not my place or anyone else for that matter to question or judge his decisions.
Western hunts are the shizzle, its what I live for. But I'm not gonna tell millions of white tail hunters that sitting in a tree all day is not hunting. Because it is. Just not my type of hunting. So next time you hunt a LE unit in the rut with high end optics, tack driver rifles, 350 FPS compound bows with carbon arrows and razor sharp precision machined broad heads, $200 waterproof boots, all the latest camo, GPS in hand taking you right to where you google earthed that water hole, ask yourself if someone might be judging you.
 
>Hoss,
>
>I am the one that made
>the comment about Kodiak and
>AI in another thread. It
>was sarcasm at its finest,
>but no one seemed to
>get that. I made the
>ridiculous analogy because that's all
>this nonsense is, RIDICULOUS. The
>man could hunt big mule
>deer anywhere he wants, for
>a fraction of what he
>paid for that tag. The
>Jicarilla Rez, in my home
>state of NM has some
>of the biggest deer in
>the country on its 850,000
>acres and has a 100%
>success rate. So is that
>a canned hunt too? Or
>because its over 1,000 square
>miles is it different? What
>about White Mtn Apache Rez?
>Monster Bulls to be had
>for a fraction of what
>he paid for the Gov
>tag.
>So his motives are exactly that,
>his. It is not my
>place or anyone else for
>that matter to question or
>judge his decisions.
>Western hunts are the shizzle, its
>what I live for. But
>I'm not gonna tell millions
>of white tail hunters that
>sitting in a tree all
>day is not hunting. Because
>it is. Just not my
>type of hunting. So next
>time you hunt a LE
>unit in the rut with
>high end optics, tack driver
>rifles, 350 FPS compound bows
>with carbon arrows and razor
>sharp precision machined broad heads,
>$200 waterproof boots, all the
>latest camo, GPS in hand
>taking you right to where
>you google earthed that water
>hole, ask yourself if someone
>might be judging you
200.00 dollar water proof boots ? Where did you find that kinda of deal ? ;-)
 
>200.00 dollar water proof boots ?
>Where did you find that
>kinda of deal ? ;-)
Good ole MM classifieds! Going thrifty,
saving up so maybe I can out bid Denny next year!!
>
 
It's a canned hunt for the most part. Some canned hunts are legal, this one is. It's his money, he can spend it how he wants to and I don't have a problem with it as long as he doesn't brag about it or convey it as a hunt in any way.
 
nmwapati, my apologies, I totally missed the sarcasism, my bad totally.

I haven't been on AI since Sept. I got busy with big game, then waterfowl. We will again start spending time out there after antler loss, regrowth starts. I have an 8 yr old son. He loves to "practice his stalking" out there. I HIGHLY doubt that you have ever been anywhere where a 7 yr old(and for two years earlier), can "stalk" in shorts and gym shoes within 25-50 yrds of 30"+ buck over and over, evening after evening. When people talk about this island they quote the overall acreage. What doesn't get mentioned is that nearly 1/3 of the island is campground, maint. sheds, corrals and marina. The actual acreage that holds deer is quite small, there are some rocky hills on the south that really don't, and as a island surrounded by salt water(and mud flat, drought) fresh water access further cuts the acreage. It is not high fence. However there are thousands, if not 10's of thousands of vehicles that drive around out there. There are tons of hikers, horseman that use the island. These deer get pretty used to people and allow them much closer access than wild deer. Do a search on pics YELUM has taken of them, then know that he is WHEELCHAIR bound. He isn't some backcountry hiker, and while he is a good man, who I have debated, his ability to take such great photos while in a wheelchair makes my argument. I don't like the ability Denny has to bypass draws, points, and waiting periods because he can scratch a check, but I don't care about him at all, I do care that this hunt is awful! I do care that SFW screws Utah sportsman year after year, and Denny is there chosen one. BUT, if they both disapeared tomorrow, I would still be on my soapbox about this shoot(its no where near a hunt).


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-14 AT 08:06PM (MST)[p]I also used Kodiak in my post. Yes I am smart enough to know the difference and yes I have been on AI plenty of times. I used KI loosely simply because someone else used the the description "island" as a canned hunt. There are plenty of other islands all over Alaska that people "hunt" bear, moose and blacktails on that are way smaller than AI......WAY smaller!! Once again I will say that everyone has their own description of what their "experience" is dubbed as. Hell, I go potgut "hunting" in the spring and kill defensless ground squirrels in wide open fields with centerfire rifles. Is that a true hunt?
Just what is a "true hunt"??



avatar-1.png
 
It is essentially a high fenced / canned hunt. Lets all be honest about that, we all know that is the truth.
They kill the deer the first day, and could the first morning EASILY every year. Anyone could shoot a deer out there in 1 hour if they wanted to.
I am also against hunting on AI, it is a State Park, I do not think there is anything wrong having some places that do not allow hunting.

With all of that said:

I do not think anything less of anyone that chooses to hunt out there. If it is legal, then have at it.

Good to you! Have fun, and whatever floats your boat is great!

Good Luck Denny, and Good Luck, to the guy that draws it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-14 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]Man there are some losers on this site. Who cares?! Bottom line is stop worrying about what some other guy is doing, get off your computer where you post 100 times a day and go do something worthwhile. The money goes to good cause. You whine when the state does nothing to help the wildlife and as soon as it raises some money and starts with some projects, you're still whining! Who gives what denny, benny or penny do. Go do your own thing and stop critizing others. Haha some people are ridiculous. If he wants to go on a "easy" deer hunt and he has the resources to, so be it, who gives?! You're not him and quite frankly it doesn't affect you whether or not Denny hunts the island so why should you care?! So do your own thing and move on!
 
You know Hossblur, you are an interesting fellow. You are big with the words and seem to know all about things that you really know nothing about. I do love to read your posts though. Gives me a big laugh and makes me wonder why you feel the way that you do.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-14
>AT 09:12?PM (MST)
>
>Man there are some losers on
>this site. Who cares?! Bottom
>line is stop worrying about
>what some other guy is
>doing, get off your computer
>where you post 100 times
>a day and go do
>something worthwhile. The money goes
>to good cause. You whine
>when the state does nothing
>to help the wildlife and
>as soon as it raises
>some money and starts with
>some projects, you're still whining!
>Who gives what denny, benny
>or penny do. Go do
>your own thing and stop
>critizing others. Haha some people
>are ridiculous. If he wants
>to go on a "easy"
>deer hunt and he has
>the resources to, so be
>it, who gives?! You're not
>him and quite frankly it
>doesn't affect you whether or
>not Denny hunts the island
>so why should you care?!
>So do your own thing
>and move on!

It's unfortunate that so many (most) of the posters on these Denny/Antelope Island threads focus so much on the hunt and/or hunter that they miss the impact and effects these types of hunts actually have on the way they hunt. If the hunts stayed on the island then, indeed, no one should care nor complain. But they don't and that makes a great deal of difference in the way I can or can't hunt. They start out at some high profile media infested EXPO or banquet with an auction and end up at the State Capitol and at the Wildlife Board Meetings where they carry enough weight via the participants to give us 30 limited entry units instead of 5 regions, a $5 increase in permit fees to kill coyotes, a higher buck to doe ratio regulation resulting in 2,500 fewer deer tags and the loss of statewide archery deer hunting along with the continuing calls for further increasing buck to doe ratios, shortening of archery seasons, antler point restrictions and the closing of units for periods of time. Do these hunts effect the way I hunt? Most assuredly!

I have absolutely no problem with the way or method Denny Austad chooses to hunt nor am I jealous of his trophies, but I do and will continue to oppose the detrimental socially based wildlife management decisions that these hunts generate.
 
I like how Hossblur accuses Denny of needing the attention but I have never seen Denny post here once. However there are several posts by Hossblur saying the same thing over and over, screaming like a homo at a parade, for attention.
 
Amazing he pays that much for such a crap tag as we are led to believe. From what I glean from the experts here, he could eat tag soup if he passes early on a 130 buck.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
So Elk, Explain a few things for me. What do you think that they should do with the deer and the way that they are hunted. 30 units were made so that they could more easily control the number of deer. I preferred the state wide hunt but know the need for better numbers. The $5 increase to kill coyotes has already shown to have an impact on deer numbers with the percentage of fawn survival. Yes there has been tags cut. Do you prefer that they not cut tags and kill all the deer? Would you prefer that they have over the counter tags like they use to? What should they do to help increase the deer numbers? The loss of the state wide deer hunt on the opening days was because the people in your neck of the woods pushed very hard for it. They did not want everyone headed south for the archery hunt to start with. It was the southern unit that pushed so hard for archery hunters to pick their unit. Antler restrictions, I am not sure what you mean by that unless it is that you can only shoot a buck deer and the antlers must be 5 inches at least. What units have been closed for a period of time. I am sure that they will close a unit if the number of deer drop way down. Maybe you would prefer to have a deer hunt in units were the deer are really struggling. Just wipe them out.
I don't like all the changes either. I do look at what is going on and do not like some of it but I do take the time to look at the situation and understand why they do it. It is true that the expo and banquets raise lots of money for the DWR to use in working to increase wildlife. There are lots of organizations that use the banquet and auction and it does raise a lot of money.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-14 AT 09:22AM (MST)[p]>>LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-14
>>AT 09:12?PM (MST)
>>
>>Man there are some losers on
>>this site. Who cares?! Bottom
>>line is stop worrying about
>>what some other guy is
>>doing, get off your computer
>>where you post 100 times
>>a day and go do
>>something worthwhile. The money goes
>>to good cause. You whine
>>when the state does nothing
>>to help the wildlife and
>>as soon as it raises
>>some money and starts with
>>some projects, you're still whining!
>>Who gives what denny, benny
>>or penny do. Go do
>>your own thing and stop
>>critizing others. Haha some people
>>are ridiculous. If he wants
>>to go on a "easy"
>>deer hunt and he has
>>the resources to, so be
>>it, who gives?! You're not
>>him and quite frankly it
>>doesn't affect you whether or
>>not Denny hunts the island
>>so why should you care?!
>>So do your own thing
>>and move on!
>
>It's unfortunate that so many (most)
>of the posters on these
>Denny/Antelope Island threads focus so
>much on the hunt and/or
>hunter that they miss the
>impact and effects these types
>of hunts actually have on
>the way they hunt. If
>the hunts stayed on the
>island then, indeed, no one
>should care nor complain. But
>they don't and that makes
>a great deal of difference
>in the way I can
>or can't hunt. They start
>out at some high profile
>media infested EXPO or banquet
>with an auction and end
>up at the State Capitol
>and at the Wildlife Board
>Meetings where they carry enough
>weight via the participants to
>give us 30 limited entry
>units instead of 5 regions,
>a $5 increase in permit
>fees to kill coyotes, a
>higher buck to doe ratio
>regulation resulting in 2,500 fewer
>deer tags and the loss
>of statewide archery deer hunting
>along with the continuing calls
>for further increasing buck to
>doe ratios, shortening of archery
>seasons, antler point restrictions and
>the closing of units for
>periods of time. Do these
>hunts effect the way I
>hunt? Most assuredly!
>
>I have absolutely no problem with
>the way or method Denny
>Austad chooses to hunt nor
>am I jealous of his
>trophies, but I do and
>will continue to oppose the
>detrimental socially based wildlife management
>decisions that these hunts generate.
>


I too would like to hear Elk's logic behind his comments. As far as I'm concerned, I'm all in for the changes. Some of the complaints you had, I consider awesome for the state. It obviously wasn't working what the state was doing before for wildlife management. Deer quality and numbers have already slowly started to rebound, there are more elk tags available now and sheep numbers continue to rise. Sir you complained about the coyote bounty? Are you serious?! Thats great!! I'm all in for an extra 5 dollars a year to help out the deer herds and help the quality of my hunts
 
It's a slippery slope when we try to make people conform to our own personal standards.
Like I posted elsewhere: we ALL make application for the easiest units with the largest animals that our money and points allow.
NONE of us intentionally apply in the worst units with the toughest terrain and smallest animals! .....unless that's all our money or points will allow.
Think about that for a minute, if you will.
Zeke
 
>So Elk, Explain a few things
>for me. What do
>you think that they should
>do with the deer and
>the way that they are
>hunted. 30 units were
>made so that they could
>more easily control the number
>of deer. I preferred the
>state wide hunt but know
>the need for better numbers.

Uhmmmmm.....They have managed deer with 30 or more "units" since 1997. Option duce merely now manages hunters. Even sfw leadership has acknowledged that fact.

> The $5 increase to
>kill coyotes has already shown
>to have an impact on
>deer numbers with the percentage
>of fawn survival.

Oh please provide this proof outside of the pathetic email sent to biologists by DP. Coyotes eat more than fawns or there wouldn't be a need to cough up another $5.00 per tag in order to kill them where there currently aren't any deer. Again, post some evidence. I can provide it contrary, so lets see what you've got.


>Yes there has been tags cut.
> Do you prefer that
>they not cut tags and
>kill all the deer?

Huh? Dude, seriously? Elk has more knowledge and data than any five other people on the subject. Ask him real questions, he'll blow you away. (Hopefully my suggestions stay posted here, Roy is pretty trigger happy with that "delete" button as of late)

>Would you prefer that they
>have over the counter tags
>like they use to?

Yep. Who wouldn't? Isn't that the goal we all share?

>What should they do to
>help increase the deer numbers?

You can't handle the truth. Its not coming from the right koolaid dispenser.

> The loss of the
>state wide deer hunt on
>the opening days was because
>the people in your neck
>of the woods pushed very
>hard for it. They
>did not want everyone headed
>south for the archery hunt
>to start with. It
>was the southern unit that
>pushed so hard for archery
>hunters to pick their unit.

No, it was the sfw crowd. Those who spoke against it were only given a couple of minutes to speak while the sfw people were given 5 at the rack with a certain know it all taking almost 15. While ultimately, our RAC voted in favor of it. It was the only RAC that did. The others opposed eliminated statewide archery. Then, the sfw heavy WB put the hammer down.

> Antler restrictions, I am
>not sure what you mean
>by that unless it is
>that you can only shoot
>a buck deer and the
>antlers must be 5 inches
>at least. What units
>have been closed for a
>period of time. I
>am sure that they will
>close a unit if the
>number of deer drop way
>down. Maybe you would prefer
>to have a deer hunt
>in units were the deer
>are really struggling. Just
>wipe them out.
> I
>don't like all the changes
>either. I do look
>at what is going on
>and do not like some
>of it but I do
>take the time to look
>at the situation and understand
>why they do it.

Yet you oppose shooting does on a winter range where up to 60 percent of the deer wintering there account for the entire units herd and even some on neighboring units. That range burns, the unit will be closed. Period.

>It is true that the
>expo and banquets raise lots
>of money for the DWR
>to use in working to
>increase wildlife. There are
>lots of organizations that use
>the banquet and auction and
>it does raise a lot
>of money.

Yet, after five years and millions of dollars later, we have the same number of deer (probably a few more) and fewer tags. More elk and antelope yet fewer opportunities to hunt them. Yeah, those dollars are well spent on habitat that the a fore mentioned email from DP to BYU biologists discounted as only a minor purpose we don't have 400,000 or more deer. Enough already. Taxing the poor to pay the rich. Look at it for what it is and those being taxed can finally work together to get something done.

Okay, delete away Roy.


"When you are dead, you don't know that
you are dead. It is difficult only for the
others. It is the same when you are
stupid"
 
They were able to get $305,000 dollars for one deer tag. That's a ton of money towards conservation. Which goes to help wildlife in the state. I see it as a win for all of us....

Happy Hunting
Psc_Thompson
 
Klbzdad, Not going to get in a pissing match with you as you seem to think you know everything. I guess that Elk decided not to answer the questions that were sent to him for whatever reason.
Yes the 30 units were set up to manage both the deer and the hunters. If they are managing the deer then they will manage the hunters. That is only common sense.
As for the $5 increase to manage coyotes, I did not get my information from DP, I got it from the DWR biologists who say that the fawn survival rate went up this past year. I would take them at their word. It was posted at the wildlife board meeting.
If elk has all the knowledge then he should be answering this and not you. I would love to see what he has.
Yes I too would love to see over the counter tags but know realistically that that if that happened the deer would be gone. Yes I can handle the truth. I am much more involved in the deer situation than you would ever know. As you always say prove it, will prove that I am not.
Now for the change on the archery hunt. SFW's stance was neutral. Could be that there were SFW people trying to get it passed in the south but there was a lot of others also trying. When it came up with SFW the group could not agree and it went neutral. At the wildlife board there was a battle over that. Most the people that talked at the WLB were not with SFW. That you can check for yourself.
Yep I do appose shooting of does. I do not like the idea of shooting does anywhere. Don't like the idea of shooting deer in the urban areas either. Now that there has been success in moving deer that works better. That is why they are moving deer out of the Bountiful area right now. The DWR keeps tabs on the areas that burned. They watch carefully and keep on top of it. That is why they moved deer off of AI to the Oak Creeks as well as sheep. To help the deer herd recover from the fire.
As far as the deer numbers, I have never heard DP or SFW say that we have 400,000 deer. Not once. You have not either. They have a goal to get the deer to 400,000 and then from there higher but they have not said we are there now.
Now Klbzdad, There is no question that you hate SFW and DP and anything that they do. That is your right. You think you know everything, you are always saying prove this and that. What I have said it true. That is all I need because my info comes mostly from the people on the front lines of the DWR. Weather you like it or not, there statements outrank yours. Now I am done on this subject as I said before I will not get into a pissing match with you. A civil conversation is one thing, a pissing match is something else. You have a great day and wish you luck on the draws and the hunts that you get.
 
Birdman: "As for the $5 increase to manage coyotes, I did not get my information from DP, I got it from the DWR biologists who say that the fawn survival rate went up this past year. I would take them at their word. It was posted at the wildlife board meeting."

***Do you really think that in just the short time that the $5 coyote bounty has been in effect that a biologist could gather enough meaningful data to say that unless there was a method to his madness? It takes a number of years to compile any meaningful data on ANYTHING to then be able to really say what the results are. Did he say how much the survival rate went up across the state or was it just a quick statement to make that $5 bounty look like it is doing some good? Of course we all know that the only good coyote is a dead one and will help things!
 
TOPGUN, The $5 increase has made a high impact on the coyotes. Just last year there were well over $10,000 coyotes that had bounty paid on them. On top of that the fixed wing control has really made an impact. They have killed thousands more out of the fixed wing and helicopters. The helicopter was in the air the other day for 2 hours until mechanical problems caused it to sit down and it they shot 60 in that time. When there is snow on the ground they can see them easy and give them hell. The fawn crop survival in just one year has jumped a bunch from last year and the credit comes from the coyote program. Fawns this year survived the summer and fall better than in the past.
 
Thanks Birdman! It sounds like if they're taking that many using the aircraft and on the ground hunting that the fawn crop will definitely profit from it.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-14
>AT 08:06?PM (MST)
>
>I also used Kodiak in my
>post. Yes I am smart
>enough to know the difference
>and yes I have been
>on AI plenty of times.
>I used KI loosely simply
>because someone else used the
>the description "island" as a
>canned hunt. There are plenty
>of other islands all over
>Alaska that people "hunt" bear,
>moose and blacktails on that
>are way smaller than AI......WAY
>smaller!! Once again I will
>say that everyone has their
>own description of what their
>"experience" is dubbed as. Hell,
>I go potgut "hunting" in
>the spring and kill defensless
>ground squirrels in wide open
>fields with centerfire rifles. Is
>that a true hunt?
>Just what is a "true hunt"??
>
>
>
>
>
avatar-1.png



NO, its not, and I do the same, we call it shooting squirels. When we set up and kill groundhogs, we call it shooting groundhogs. There is a major difference, you obviously know it, I know it, so does most of the public.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>You know Hossblur, you are an
>interesting fellow. You are
>big with the words and
>seem to know all about
>things that you really know
>nothing about. I do
>love to read your posts
>though. Gives me a
>big laugh and makes me
>wonder why you feel the
>way that you do.

The reason I feel that way is simple, I LIVE IN UTAH. Right now the legislature is in session. Right now THE DON is up glad handing a bunch of jackwagons on capital hill. Right now some clown legislator is hearing about selling 1 tag for $305,000 and when it comes time to fund the DWR, don't think for a minute these clowns aren't thinking "why not just sell a few more tags". I feel this way because I am a results oriented guy. If SFW had built our herds up(they way they said they could) I would have alot less animosity towards them. But they have failed for two decades, why are they still getting the welfare. In the same timeframe, DU has made waterfowling nearly a third of the year hunt(with droughts, hard winters, predators all affecting ducks), DU is successful, SFW FAILED. Lastly, I live 2 miles from the causway. I grew up watching these deer. I grew up heading out to that island. Denny has put over 1/2 million out there, yet the habitat is unchanged. The "reason" for the tag was to make antelope island profitable, dirty little secret is it is without the tag. If a hunt was biologically necessary, then why not have two draw tags? Why did we need to sell one, if populations are overunning the island. Why don't we hunt antelope out there? Perhaps it is my raising or who raised me, but I don't thing that because it grows horns, it should be shot. I like antelope island as a nursery, or zoo, the same way I like yellowstone. I could care less about Denny, he is just the guy who buys this tag, my issue is there shouldn't be a tag to buy out there period, in fact I don't think there should be a tag.

Finally, do some research, check out the alaska forums. Sfw is up there trying to "work their magic". They are trying in Wyoming, they tried in Arizona. They aren't for anything other then the perpetuation of SFW, and their leadership have made MILLIONS by simply lying to state legislatures. Don't think for a minute that they aren't selling Utah, Wyoming, or Alaska government how they can bring in millions, in exchange for some welfare, and how it will benefit that state, look at Utah, "we just sold one tag for $305k". IF a deer on AI is worth that, imagine what a bear on Kodiak could sale for.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 01:12AM (MST)[p]Sorry I'm just getting back to this thread. No, I didn't decide not to respond. Life just gets in the way of more important things sometimes, but grandkids' last minute homework; buying, titling, registering and insuring a car for one of our daughters; buying and setting up a Kindle for the wife, only to have her decide she wanted an Ipad instead; figuring and filing taxes for ourselves and the daughter along with the usual fixing meals, doing dishes by hand and sleeping just seemed more important at the time. I haven't even applied for tags yet! I need to get better organized.

But since I'm here now, I might just as well speak my piece, and FWIW, this is my piece and not anyone else's. First off, I have absolutely no quarrel with changes if they are tied to science or logic, but the social changes that are made to benefit one group at the expense of another will get my attention rather quickly. I've been asked to respond to several issues so if you don't mind I'll address them one at a time in separate posts, otherwise I'd be up all night and this post would be too long.

The loss of statewide archery deer hunting is one of those social issues. It's obvious to me that it was an end-around to the perceived overcrowding issue. The overcrowding issue was all about "fairness" and "overcrowding" neither of which anyone could define when I asked them at the RAC meeting. I did some heavy calculations at the time based on the DWR's unit acreage count in their deer management plan and the number of hunters per the 2007 Big Game Report and found that in the Southern Region each archery hunter had 1,433 acres of public accessible deer habitat (10,908,800 acres, 7,614 hunters) and found it was actually the 2nd least crowded region, but that didn't matter. They still "perceived" it was overcrowded.

The Wildlife Board then decided to require archers to choose a region for 1/2 of the 2009 season to see how many archery hunters were hunting each region. The numbers closely confirmed my calculations, but when those who pushed it couldn't justify the numbers and Option #2 was proposed, they came up with something even worse for the archers. And, as Shawn (klbzdad) has mentioned, when it came to the Wildlife Board vote, the Chair broke the tie even though only one of the five RAC's approved the lose. The lose had/has absolutely nothing to do with science, and in fact some of the Southern RAC members regret doing it. When I brought it up several meetings ago, I was told by the chair they agreed with me that statewide archery should be reinstated, but it wasn't the right time for it yet because too much other stuff was going on. Whether or not that will happen remains to be seen, but I for one, will bring it up again unless some of you can convince me it would be detrimental to the deer population or to other hunters. And the emotional unconfirmed "overcrowded" or "fairness" ploy won't do that. Give me science and/or logic.

Well, it's really late and I'll pick this up tomorrow on another topic.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 11:28AM (MST)[p]Regarding the $5 permit fee increase, the issue is complicated by the fact that 2 "coyote" bills were passed in 2012 and the responses I got from my post indicate that many of you may not know the difference.

I supported SB245, the "Mule Deer Protection Act" which specifically targets coyotes and which receives its funding from the general funds (state taxes) and specifies that the funds are to go to professional predator removal contractors who target the killing of coyotes from aircraft in designated areas at designated times. The $750,000 fund included a one time $250,000 for a helicopter and the remaining $500,000 for the operation. And I think it's an ongoing fund. The downside is that it costs an estimated $600 per coyote.

However, I did not (and do not) support SB87, "Predator Control Funding". This bill does not specify it's for coyotes and deer, just predators and prey. (It can legally be used to take badgers who are killing prairie dogs.) It's funded primarily by the $5 increase in permit fees even though it benefits agriculture as much as hunters. It also allows for the ineffective killing of coyotes over a broad area and time. It was also designed to increase the number of coyotes killed, but there is no way of knowing whether or not that is happening and we are likely simply paying varmit hunters more for what they are already doing.

Per past studies, to be effective in the long term (10 years), we have to remove 70% of the coyotes in a specific area during specific times, otherwise the coyotes just fill in the void by moving and increasing the birth rate/litter. It's like trying to rid your house of cockroaches by stomping on them one at a time. You can't kill them fast enough. We have no way of knowing for sure the coyote population or density in Utah, but if you consider just the general public accessible deer habitat, (not counting private, LE, CWMU, military, National Parks and other state and federal inaccessible areas) there are nearly 29,000,000 acres to consider. If there was a family/pack of 4 coyotes per square mile that's 181,000 coyotes. Even 1/2 of that is a lot of coyotes that need to be killed. And at $50 each, that's a lot of money as well. Admittedly, it probably doable, but is it effective in actually saving deer?

The recent studies (deer transplant, Monroe fawn/coyote study) have been touted as being successful in showing that coyotes are a major problem, but they are long term studies for a reason. One year's results can't be construed to be conclusive because the weather, diseases, cougar populations, coyote prey cycles, general deer health and other factors are variable and have to be considered. Coyotes are scientifically labeled as carnivores, but they are opportunists and eat everything from insects to grass and berries to carrion. They even eat jello out of your garbage can and, as pointed out by klbzdad, they thrive in areas that have never seen a mule deer. They'll find food the easiest way they can and an adult mule deer is only easy if it's sick or weak or confused, mis-oriented, or trapped. Admittedly, new-born fawns are much more susceptible and these studies may show promise. However, you have to remember that those coyotes were targeted in specific areas at specific times by professional shooters. The $50 bounty had nothing to do with it and the studies were paid for by private funds (Thanks SFW).

In my view, the $5 permit increase as it's being used now is money flushed down the toilet and could be better used on some of the other solutions to the problems causing the deer declines. (Even the professional helicopter coyote shooters.)
 
Isn't it right that the $5 fee goes for the coyote program that pays $50 a coyote? And haven't they paid out on more than $10,000 coyotes killed? That is where the money goes. And yes the coyotes can take down a mature mule deer. It is happening east of Nephi Levan area where a single coyote has been taking down deer that seams to be healthy. There have been several killed doing just such thing. As you know the bounty on coyotes is only paid to those that sign up and keep the rules that are implemented. Other coyotes killed are not counted. There has been a big impact on survival of the deer because of the loss of coyotes. As for the Monroe, that coyote program started and has been going longer and is showing improvement. The coyote problem in my opinion started back when they outlawed the poisoning of coyotes. At that time we had more deer and fewer coyotes. They have been on the increase ever since. Lions are also a problem with the deer but the program shows that coyotes are more damaging.
 
Another reason that there was a push for the archery people to have to pick their unit was the rifle hunters and muzzle loader hunters that were at the wildlife board meeting. It was brought up that if the rifle and muzzle loader hunters had to pick their area so should the bow hunters. They already had a longer season than the other two.
 
>Another reason that there was a
>push for the archery people
>to have to pick their
>unit was the rifle hunters
>and muzzle loader hunters that
>were at the wildlife board
>meeting. It was brought up
>that if the rifle and
>muzzle loader hunters had to
>pick their area so should
>the bow hunters. They
>already had a longer season
>than the other two.

Yeh, I know that already, "it isn't fair"! I can't count the number of times I've heard that over the last few years. So where's the science and logic? What I've never heard is how statewide archery hunting hurts the rifle and muzzy hunters or the deer.
 
>Isn't it right that the $5
>fee goes for the coyote
>program that pays $50 a
>coyote? And haven't they
>paid out on more than
>$10,000 coyotes killed? That
>is where the money goes.
> And yes the coyotes
>can take down a mature
>mule deer. It is
>happening east of Nephi Levan
>area where a single coyote
>has been taking down deer
>that seams to be healthy.
>There have been several killed
>doing just such thing.
>As you know the bounty
>on coyotes is only paid
>to those that sign up
>and keep the rules that
>are implemented. Other coyotes
>killed are not counted.
>There has been a big
>impact on survival of the
>deer because of the loss
>of coyotes. As for
>the Monroe, that coyote program
>started and has been going
>longer and is showing improvement.
> The coyote problem in
>my opinion started back when
>they outlawed the poisoning of
>coyotes. At that time
>we had more deer and
>fewer coyotes. They have
>been on the increase ever
>since. Lions are also
>a problem with the deer
>but the program shows that
>coyotes are more damaging.

Yes, the $5 goes for the $50 bounties and that's the problem. $50 buys a lot of bitterbrush seeds.

And it's true that the bounties are paid only to those that are registered and follow the rules, but the rules are too broad and the coyotes won't tolerate hunters enough to allow concentrated killing. They learn to recognize callers really fast as any coyote hunter can tell you.

Also that $10,000 represents how many more that were killed above the number that were killed without the $50 bounty? Or did we just pay $10,000 for the same number that we used to pay $5,000 for. Also that $10,000 represents about 40-50 litters. We'll easily replace them in Escalante Valley or on Cedar Mountain alone. Your poison remark makes my point. You can't randomly kill them fast enough one by one.

Yes, there are coyotes that can take down an adult mule deer, just as there are mule deer bucks who can grow 200" antlers and pronghorn that will jump a fence, but they're few and far between.

On the 25th of this month we'll find out more about the Monroe project and I'll give you an update after that.

Finally, the deer survival has much more to do with the mild weather we've had than the coyotes. The deer are recovering even in areas where the coyotes haven't be targeted.
 
Elk, My fault, I put $10,000 and it should have been over 10,000 coyotes that were killed and paid bounty on. It is true that they are not killing as many coyotes that need to be killed but then again 10,000 less coyotes is better than nothing. The air attack is starting to hit areas that the hunters are not. I that the hunters attack the easiest coyotes though as you say this time of year they are very much educated. Still those that know what they are doing are killing a bunch. Those people that have been hired under this program by the DWR are now being told that they must hit other areas. All in all the DWR seems to think that it is making a difference. Anyway that is what they are saying.
 

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