javihammer
Active Member
- Messages
- 135
Bubbas, during the course of your posts you have validated some of the early assumptions I made about you when I initially read and responded to the ?Arizona Draw Process Needs Changes? post. I suspected you fell into a specific demographic and you validated my assumptions. These things are not necessarily negative traits, they just paint a collective picture of a guy advocating in support of his own self interests. Here are some things we know about you.
? You didn't get drawn this year for an elk tag (boo hoo, neither did I)
? You apply in other states (not a sin, but certainly some evidence that you are a Bone Collector with some level of discretionary income)
? You previously lived out of state and applied to hunt in Arizona while you were there (I suspect you still live out of state ? quick test, most arizona plates a have a cactus on them)
? You apply for low-odds hunts (see one of your quotes below)
? You have far fewer points than those at the top of the bonus pool (you have no more than 7 points if you are telling the truth on the quote below ? you say you got an early bull tag in 2003)
? Never did get a real answer on the name thing
Just so that you are clear, I had an agenda too. My agenda was to help to educate other hunters about how ridiculous these proposals are. I hoped to bait you out so that others would squash your arguments with real data. The longer you talk the more people send in data-driven opposition, you are truly your own worst enemy (as well as the enemy of other Bone Collectors). I am grateful that others stepped up to the plate and eloquently proved that your positions are based on greed and your own self interests. .
Here are some of your direct quotes?.
DIRECT BUBBAS QUOTE
?It is you guys who are simply not allowing yourselves to get off your anti-change soap box to even validate or falsify statements. There can only be two reasons for that.?
? Several of us Ugly Tag Crew members have explicitly stated we do not advocate against change philosophically, we just disagree with these changes. As best as I can tell, just about every UTC guy has proposed at least one thoughtful change (at least Maddglasser, Mesquite Hunter, Kent, Bill and I have). I know I am missing recognizing some others, sorry guys, a lot of words to sort through. Most of the UTC proposals have been largely ignored because they do not explicitly support the very specific viewpoint (or agenda) that Bubbas and Billy share.
ANOTHER BUBBAS QUOTE
?One you are not interested in learning the truth about how things work because you are afraid to admit what it may lead to again because you like the draw being based on luck. Or you really do think all the incorrect math "SPEW" you are throwing out, which conflicts with all laws of equations, is correct.?
? The only person consistently throwing out numbers is Kent. Most of his numbers come directly from the Arizona Hunt Survey Statistics book (Kent provided a link in one of his last posts). I encourage you to look at it someday as it has real numbers that if viewed objectively WOULD change some of your positions. The book is short on philosophy or recommendations for additional entitlement programs so you might find it boring.
AND ANOTHER BUBBAS QUOTE
?i have made many truthful, valid statements and I have not once heard a validating statement from any of you.....why because it is you that is fearful of what validating truthful statements will lead to.?
? A desparate statement from a beaten warrior. Please turn in your black hat and raise the white flag. People that speak in absolutes look stupid.
ANOTHER
?I have NO motivation to change the system for my benefit (I drew an early rifle bull tag in a premium unit in 2003 with 4 BP). I put in with my dad trying to bring his points down so he wouldn't draw while I was out of the state. We drew tags 3 and 4, the first ones possible after the 10% hold over in place at the time?
? You have EVERY reason to change the system, I calculate that you have somewhere between 5 and 7 bonus points for elk (the people with the most incentive to want to increase holdover percentages). You also confirmed you are a low-odds unit BONE COLLECTOR. The rest of your explanation seems fishy too (you put in with your Dad to bring his points down? What the heck does that mean?). By the way, a quick check on the AZGFD website can confirm your Dads bonus point total. I checked the stats book and I didn't see anyone with so many bonus points that it would constitute a ?problem?.
One other quick point of clarification on tag turn in programs??..
? I do not endorse a tag turn in program since there has been no intelligent proposals to protect them from corruption (I go into great length on this on the ?Arizona Draw Process Needs Changes? posts)
? I think the turn in idea is worth investigation IF there are actually tags being wasted (and can be given to sick kids). When I say wasted I mean tags that are not being factored into the unit tag allocation models. Since the Arizona Survey and Draw Stats include ?hunter days in field? I suspect they are already being taken into account in the unit allocations. If this is the case, they provide no additional opportunity.
? As I have stated in previous posts, my concern for those with ?discretionary? hunt conflicts can be measured in fractions of a milli-shirt minus an r. These people need to just nut up and just go hunting or place the sticky side of the tag against their lips to drown out their whining.
I know I went off topic but like Ken, I now see the light. By responding to Bubbas ?flaming? posts we are essentially endorsing his positions because these hot topics are all being listed under thread titles that call his proposals into action. I think it is now time to stop responding to Bubbas posts as we have already covered the bad side of these proposals. I hope the real majority (mostly ugly tag hunters) in Arizona will think twice before hopping on these conspiracy theory ?I hate Game and Fish? bandwagons.
If anyone has an idea for how to post threads that would support the interests the Ugly Tag Crew I would chip in and give them support. Amen on Steve?s last comment, there are changes that worth working out, don't lose faith.
Cheers,
Ryan
? You didn't get drawn this year for an elk tag (boo hoo, neither did I)
? You apply in other states (not a sin, but certainly some evidence that you are a Bone Collector with some level of discretionary income)
? You previously lived out of state and applied to hunt in Arizona while you were there (I suspect you still live out of state ? quick test, most arizona plates a have a cactus on them)
? You apply for low-odds hunts (see one of your quotes below)
? You have far fewer points than those at the top of the bonus pool (you have no more than 7 points if you are telling the truth on the quote below ? you say you got an early bull tag in 2003)
? Never did get a real answer on the name thing
Just so that you are clear, I had an agenda too. My agenda was to help to educate other hunters about how ridiculous these proposals are. I hoped to bait you out so that others would squash your arguments with real data. The longer you talk the more people send in data-driven opposition, you are truly your own worst enemy (as well as the enemy of other Bone Collectors). I am grateful that others stepped up to the plate and eloquently proved that your positions are based on greed and your own self interests. .
Here are some of your direct quotes?.
DIRECT BUBBAS QUOTE
?It is you guys who are simply not allowing yourselves to get off your anti-change soap box to even validate or falsify statements. There can only be two reasons for that.?
? Several of us Ugly Tag Crew members have explicitly stated we do not advocate against change philosophically, we just disagree with these changes. As best as I can tell, just about every UTC guy has proposed at least one thoughtful change (at least Maddglasser, Mesquite Hunter, Kent, Bill and I have). I know I am missing recognizing some others, sorry guys, a lot of words to sort through. Most of the UTC proposals have been largely ignored because they do not explicitly support the very specific viewpoint (or agenda) that Bubbas and Billy share.
ANOTHER BUBBAS QUOTE
?One you are not interested in learning the truth about how things work because you are afraid to admit what it may lead to again because you like the draw being based on luck. Or you really do think all the incorrect math "SPEW" you are throwing out, which conflicts with all laws of equations, is correct.?
? The only person consistently throwing out numbers is Kent. Most of his numbers come directly from the Arizona Hunt Survey Statistics book (Kent provided a link in one of his last posts). I encourage you to look at it someday as it has real numbers that if viewed objectively WOULD change some of your positions. The book is short on philosophy or recommendations for additional entitlement programs so you might find it boring.
AND ANOTHER BUBBAS QUOTE
?i have made many truthful, valid statements and I have not once heard a validating statement from any of you.....why because it is you that is fearful of what validating truthful statements will lead to.?
? A desparate statement from a beaten warrior. Please turn in your black hat and raise the white flag. People that speak in absolutes look stupid.
ANOTHER
?I have NO motivation to change the system for my benefit (I drew an early rifle bull tag in a premium unit in 2003 with 4 BP). I put in with my dad trying to bring his points down so he wouldn't draw while I was out of the state. We drew tags 3 and 4, the first ones possible after the 10% hold over in place at the time?
? You have EVERY reason to change the system, I calculate that you have somewhere between 5 and 7 bonus points for elk (the people with the most incentive to want to increase holdover percentages). You also confirmed you are a low-odds unit BONE COLLECTOR. The rest of your explanation seems fishy too (you put in with your Dad to bring his points down? What the heck does that mean?). By the way, a quick check on the AZGFD website can confirm your Dads bonus point total. I checked the stats book and I didn't see anyone with so many bonus points that it would constitute a ?problem?.
One other quick point of clarification on tag turn in programs??..
? I do not endorse a tag turn in program since there has been no intelligent proposals to protect them from corruption (I go into great length on this on the ?Arizona Draw Process Needs Changes? posts)
? I think the turn in idea is worth investigation IF there are actually tags being wasted (and can be given to sick kids). When I say wasted I mean tags that are not being factored into the unit tag allocation models. Since the Arizona Survey and Draw Stats include ?hunter days in field? I suspect they are already being taken into account in the unit allocations. If this is the case, they provide no additional opportunity.
? As I have stated in previous posts, my concern for those with ?discretionary? hunt conflicts can be measured in fractions of a milli-shirt minus an r. These people need to just nut up and just go hunting or place the sticky side of the tag against their lips to drown out their whining.
I know I went off topic but like Ken, I now see the light. By responding to Bubbas ?flaming? posts we are essentially endorsing his positions because these hot topics are all being listed under thread titles that call his proposals into action. I think it is now time to stop responding to Bubbas posts as we have already covered the bad side of these proposals. I hope the real majority (mostly ugly tag hunters) in Arizona will think twice before hopping on these conspiracy theory ?I hate Game and Fish? bandwagons.
If anyone has an idea for how to post threads that would support the interests the Ugly Tag Crew I would chip in and give them support. Amen on Steve?s last comment, there are changes that worth working out, don't lose faith.
Cheers,
Ryan