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huntsheds
Guest
What kind of fixed Broadheads do you guys use for elk and mule deer
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Darktimber
Guest
Fulton precision Ramcats. G5 strikers are right there for me to though.
The most contested arguement in archery!
I've tested and played with too many to count. I've come to the following conclusion: VPA makes the best one piece heads and Slick Trick makes the best replaceable blade head.
My criteria:
*Made of STEEL. Aluminum does not belong in broadheads IMO.
*No molded pot metal (G5), breaks too easily.
*No welds holding blades to ferrule (Hellrazors and Snuffers), again, breaks too easily.
*At least 1 1/8" cutting diameter
*RAZOR SHARP. I expect to do some sharpening on a solid head. Replaceable blades should be sharp out of the package.
*Spin tested and fly true.
Other than that, it's hard to beat the time tested design of a 3 blade cut on contact broadhead.
I've tested and played with too many to count. I've come to the following conclusion: VPA makes the best one piece heads and Slick Trick makes the best replaceable blade head.
My criteria:
*Made of STEEL. Aluminum does not belong in broadheads IMO.
*No molded pot metal (G5), breaks too easily.
*No welds holding blades to ferrule (Hellrazors and Snuffers), again, breaks too easily.
*At least 1 1/8" cutting diameter
*RAZOR SHARP. I expect to do some sharpening on a solid head. Replaceable blades should be sharp out of the package.
*Spin tested and fly true.
Other than that, it's hard to beat the time tested design of a 3 blade cut on contact broadhead.
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plainsman08
Guest
I would suggest magnus buzzcuts. I have used them for 4 or 5 years and shot around 15 animals with them and give them an A-1 rating. Super tough, AMAZING blood trails, straight flying killing machines is what they are. Have a couple of buddies that use them and all rave the same.
"In the breast of every meat hunter there beats the heart of a secret, frustrated trophy hunter."
"In the breast of every meat hunter there beats the heart of a secret, frustrated trophy hunter."
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MtnManCH
Guest
RamCats are what Ive been using the last couple years but i like anything with a short ferrule like the G5 Montecs/Strikers, Wac'em Tritons, ect. Fixed blade broadhead flight is determined by the prep you do to your arrow, but a short ferrule helps eliminate wobble.
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elk_horn
Guest
Slick Tricks!
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qvelvet
Guest
+1 on the g5 strikers
outdoorsdude
Active Member
- Messages
- 373
Magnus Stinger !
I have put them in trees and then resharpened and put them through elk. AND they fly great!
I have put them in trees and then resharpened and put them through elk. AND they fly great!
huntcrazyinCA
Member
- Messages
- 68
come on....this is a no brainer....Wac'em.....hands down!!!
clifhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 416
i have a short draw and have lost some elk and deer because of it.because of my short draw i do not get the penetration i need.. some people would say it was pour shot placement witch could be true on some animals but it is NOT TRUE on others! if u hunt as much as i do with bow, muzz, or rifle u are bound to wound a animal at some point.. I have lost a couple of top end elk 350 + and a deer 175+ both elk were hit in the front shoulder one with a grim reaper broad head and another with a muzzy. the reaper blew apart on impact 30 yard shot hit the front shoulder and the muzzy 5 yard 68 pounds shot the bull he took a couple of steps and the arrow fell out both arrows only got a few inches of penetration. i know i hit the elks shoulder square on but thout i should have got more penetration. i know some people love mecanical heads but for me i will only shoot fixed blade cut on contact.i have killed a few antelope and a lot of deer with the muz and reaper 100 grain but for me they have not worked for elk. i will a only use 125 grain heads for elk. it was a hard lesson to learn that has cost me some great animals and money and since i have changed i have not lost a animal in fact since i switched i have killed my best muley with a bow this year and have killed some other nice elk,deer,and antelope. i switched to the wac'ems i am not saying they are the best and not trying to tell anyone what to use but they have worked for me greatand if u have a draw under 27 inches i would not use any thing but a cut on contact. just my 2 cents
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Bloomgren
Guest
Wac'em!!!!
I like to use the 100 gr. Triton and Exit....the larger Triton XL for turkeys.
Why?
Because they work great! They fly like my field tips (even the XL's), reliable, strong, great design, sharp, etc....just name it! Proof is in the pudding!
Jared "J-Rod" Bloomgren
http://www.camospace.com/Bloomgren
I like to use the 100 gr. Triton and Exit....the larger Triton XL for turkeys.
Why?
Because they work great! They fly like my field tips (even the XL's), reliable, strong, great design, sharp, etc....just name it! Proof is in the pudding!
Jared "J-Rod" Bloomgren
http://www.camospace.com/Bloomgren
blazingsaddle
Active Member
- Messages
- 546
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-11 AT 01:03PM (MST)[p]I can't stop myself here....
It kills me to read posts that say they have lost animals due to a subpar arrow, or a crummy broad head. But now to read that a short draw length is the villain? To say you can't get the penetration you need because you have a - 27" draw length? Unbelievable! I do agree that a cut on contact head will help with penetration, but to blame wounded/unrecovered animals on anything but the shooter is plain arrogant!
But for the orginal topic- I really like slick tricks and tried for the first time this year, T3s. I don't have any complaints about either one. Both heads have produced more than enough blood for me to recommend them.
It kills me to read posts that say they have lost animals due to a subpar arrow, or a crummy broad head. But now to read that a short draw length is the villain? To say you can't get the penetration you need because you have a - 27" draw length? Unbelievable! I do agree that a cut on contact head will help with penetration, but to blame wounded/unrecovered animals on anything but the shooter is plain arrogant!
But for the orginal topic- I really like slick tricks and tried for the first time this year, T3s. I don't have any complaints about either one. Both heads have produced more than enough blood for me to recommend them.
travishunter3006
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,065
If you have a short draw length you need to increase the weight of your arrow. you will sacrifice speed, but you will gain AOT of momentum. Penetration can only be as good as your arrow CONTINUES to penetrate.
If you think about it, could through a piece of sand 100 MPH into your face, and it might sting, but slow that puppy down to 10 mph and make it a rock the size of your fist, you gonna stand there and let it break your face?? no way!
The faster an arrow travels the more friction/resistance you will see as well. Guys(retards) talking about a "hunting arrow" that shoots 330 or 350 fps are total idiots! speed kills??? no, arrow weight kills. arrow weight makes momentum and momentum kills.
I shoot tekans. They are awesome. they fly perfect. they penetrate. Cut on contact machined steel head. No angle deflection.
It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
If you think about it, could through a piece of sand 100 MPH into your face, and it might sting, but slow that puppy down to 10 mph and make it a rock the size of your fist, you gonna stand there and let it break your face?? no way!
The faster an arrow travels the more friction/resistance you will see as well. Guys(retards) talking about a "hunting arrow" that shoots 330 or 350 fps are total idiots! speed kills??? no, arrow weight kills. arrow weight makes momentum and momentum kills.
I shoot tekans. They are awesome. they fly perfect. they penetrate. Cut on contact machined steel head. No angle deflection.
It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
pauns08
Active Member
- Messages
- 717
I like that sand analogy travishunter I think you hit the nail right on the head. I have buddies shooting 310-320 fps and give me a hard time cause im shooting 270 and its because of the heavier easton axis arrows im shooting I love the penetration they get, I wouldnt be afraid to send my arrow tipped with a shuttle t lockthrough a bull elks shoulder at 5 or 30 yards although thats not where I would try to hit.
>If you have a short draw
>length you need to increase
>the weight of your arrow.
>you will sacrifice speed, but
>you will gain AOT of
>momentum. Penetration can only be
>as good as your arrow
>CONTINUES to penetrate.
>
>If you think about it,
>could through a piece of
>sand 100 MPH into your
>face, and it might sting,
>but slow that puppy down
>to 10 mph and make
>it a rock the size
>of your fist, you gonna
>stand there and let it
>break your face?? no way!
>
>
>The faster an arrow travels the
>more friction/resistance you will see
>as well. Guys(retards) talking about
>a "hunting arrow" that shoots
>330 or 350 fps are
>total idiots! speed kills??? no,
>arrow weight kills. arrow weight
>makes momentum and momentum kills.
>
>
>I shoot tekans. They are awesome.
>they fly perfect. they penetrate.
>Cut on contact machined steel
>head. No angle deflection.
>
>
>
>
>It was a big bodied 2
>point. (this is my signature)
>
It's refreshing to hear someone who gets it. I'm so tired of hearing speed and KE arguements. It's momentum that matters. You nailed it.
The only thing you got wrong is that the Tekkan is not machined. It is made of cast metal, poured into a form, just like other G5 broadheads. I prefer machined steel for obvious reasons, but by all means use what works for you.
>length you need to increase
>the weight of your arrow.
>you will sacrifice speed, but
>you will gain AOT of
>momentum. Penetration can only be
>as good as your arrow
>CONTINUES to penetrate.
>
>If you think about it,
>could through a piece of
>sand 100 MPH into your
>face, and it might sting,
>but slow that puppy down
>to 10 mph and make
>it a rock the size
>of your fist, you gonna
>stand there and let it
>break your face?? no way!
>
>
>The faster an arrow travels the
>more friction/resistance you will see
>as well. Guys(retards) talking about
>a "hunting arrow" that shoots
>330 or 350 fps are
>total idiots! speed kills??? no,
>arrow weight kills. arrow weight
>makes momentum and momentum kills.
>
>
>I shoot tekans. They are awesome.
>they fly perfect. they penetrate.
>Cut on contact machined steel
>head. No angle deflection.
>
>
>
>
>It was a big bodied 2
>point. (this is my signature)
>
It's refreshing to hear someone who gets it. I'm so tired of hearing speed and KE arguements. It's momentum that matters. You nailed it.
The only thing you got wrong is that the Tekkan is not machined. It is made of cast metal, poured into a form, just like other G5 broadheads. I prefer machined steel for obvious reasons, but by all means use what works for you.
Gentlemen, how refreshing! Weights where its at by far! KE is the biggest joke to hit the archery world since the beginning of time. KE is simply the measure of energy that the bow produces with a certain weight arrow. But it often leads the novice to think that an arrow kills by shock... like a bullet. That ain't the way it is, an arrow kills by cutting arteries and such and the animal bleeds to death, you need penetration to do that. KE has no effect on penetration at all. Momentum is where its at and in order to get momentum you must have weight. Compound bows are most efficient when throwing an arrow that weighs between 7 to 8 grains per pound of draw weight. I always try for 7.5 grs per pound, 450 grs for a 60 pound bow and 525 for a 70.
I shoot 60 pounds and my arrows weigh 440grs. I don't shoot the typical arrow set up either. I shoot a more traditional arrow set up. 150 gr single bevel head, 50 gr brass insert which amounts to 200grs up front and over 20% foc. I can shoot this arrow bare shaft and hit the target grouping with fieldpoints and broadheads at 70 yards. I have never had an issue with penetration shooting this arrow at 270 ft per second.
I would really like to see arrows under 400 grs outlawed for big game. I do believe you would have much lower wound rates if this was implemented.
I shoot 60 pounds and my arrows weigh 440grs. I don't shoot the typical arrow set up either. I shoot a more traditional arrow set up. 150 gr single bevel head, 50 gr brass insert which amounts to 200grs up front and over 20% foc. I can shoot this arrow bare shaft and hit the target grouping with fieldpoints and broadheads at 70 yards. I have never had an issue with penetration shooting this arrow at 270 ft per second.
I would really like to see arrows under 400 grs outlawed for big game. I do believe you would have much lower wound rates if this was implemented.
zslayer
Member
- Messages
- 62
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bowtech11
Guest
Just another question to go along with the KE, Momentum part of this thread. My question is, if your bow is maxed out, wouldn't the momentum be the same whether or not you went with a heavier arrow or not? Momentum is a measurement of mass*velocity so if you increase the weight of your arrow, then the velocity goes down, so wouldn't the ratio stay the same? (I know mass and weight are different)
bowtech11, its all a matter of how hard it is to stop. A heavier arrow, even tho it is moving at a slower speed, is harder to stop. A lot of guys like to use the ping pong ball and golf ball analogy, although its always open to argument cause no one shoots arrows that weigh as little as a ping pong ball. But which would you rather be hit with? A ping pong ball moving at 500fps, or a golf ball moving at 170fps? (I used 170fps cause thats typical traditional, recurve/longbow, arrow speed). I think that ping pong ball is going to sting like hell, but the golf ball is probably going to break a rib, in spite of the fact it is going so much slower. Follow me?
Here's a helpful chart
http://archeryreport.com/2009/12/arrow-momentum-quick-reference-chart/
Now if we take my bow which shoots a 300gr arrow at 335fps, we get a momentum reading of .445
Take the same bow and shoot a 450 gr arrow at 270fps, and we get a momentum reading of .539
So in spite of the slower speed, the heavier arrow has more forward momentum and will therefore be harder to stop. It only makes sense that if the arrow is harder to stop, it is going to penetrate farther than the lighter arrow with less momentum.
All this can be further enhanced by broadhead design and sharpness. You could take the very same fixed blade broadhead, on the very same arrow, one dull, one sharp and the sharper broadhead will out penetrate the dull one everytime.
Here's a helpful chart
http://archeryreport.com/2009/12/arrow-momentum-quick-reference-chart/
Now if we take my bow which shoots a 300gr arrow at 335fps, we get a momentum reading of .445
Take the same bow and shoot a 450 gr arrow at 270fps, and we get a momentum reading of .539
So in spite of the slower speed, the heavier arrow has more forward momentum and will therefore be harder to stop. It only makes sense that if the arrow is harder to stop, it is going to penetrate farther than the lighter arrow with less momentum.
All this can be further enhanced by broadhead design and sharpness. You could take the very same fixed blade broadhead, on the very same arrow, one dull, one sharp and the sharper broadhead will out penetrate the dull one everytime.
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Darktimber
Guest
Another good example of this has been known to waterfowl hunters since steel shot became law. When I was shooting lead, I could knock greenheads flat with #4 shot all day long out to 40+ yards. Those loads hit maybe 1200 fps. When steel became law, I had to go to #3 or #2 to achieve the same results. The steel is shooting at roughly 1500 fps. Even though the steel is going 300 fps faster,in #4 shot it doesn't have the down range momentum to effectively dispatch birds. The lead would do it all day long just lugging along at 1200 fps. The lighter shot, just like the lighter arrow does not carry enough momentum and also loses its energy much faster. A heavier mass will always retain its energy longer than a lighter mass. The more mass, the more area for energy to be stored in.
1FastGambler
Active Member
- Messages
- 982
Used to shoot muzzy, got tired of the poor quality control, tried expandables & didn't like them, then shot Montec's for several years and didn't like the performance/penetration. This year I didn't draw any tags, but my son did and he was using slick trick 125's. I was pretty impressed with his complete quartering pass thru on his first archery bull elk.
I will be using the slick tricks for at least the next several critters.
I will be using the slick tricks for at least the next several critters.
ELKOHUNTER
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,838
400 grain arrow pushing a G5 striker. Nuff said.
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coyote123
Guest
I hope i dont get bashed to bad but ive tried all the fixed broad heads and i love the cabelas copper head 100 grain it flies like a field point. I shot my deer this year and my buck went 40 yards and tipped over great blood trail i hope to draw big bull this year so i can put another animal on the ground with these broadheads.
