Changes Needed to Secondary Draw and Re-Issue Process

[fallguy]

Things are finally swinging in the right direction for Colorado residents. Progress has been made with the Res/NR license allocation although 75/25 is still not where is should be. Also discussions are now underway to address overcrowding in OTC elk units.

Two remaining topics that I feel need addressed are the Secondary Draw and the Re-Issue Process that follows it. I’d like to hear from you guys as to how these two programs could be improved. I’ll start things off - some of my thoughts are below. I will add that I expect I’ll change my mind a bit as comments/ideas are posted.

Secondary Draw

I think we should go back to a Leftover Draw which would consist of licenses not issued during the initial draw. It would not include the licenses that were surrendered during the Surrender Period.

Youth would receive preference in the Leftover Draw.

Weekly Re-Issued Licenses

Licenses from the Surrender Period and licenses turned in after that would go into the Weekly Re-issue list.

Go back to some form of randomized populating of the list instead of the current 11:00 am countdown. It could be Tuesday through Friday or maybe just 2 days a week?

Residents receive priority. Not sure how to do this. Maybe by time like the first hour after posting is open to residents only.

Questions to Ponder on Re-issues

If licenses were to be introduced to the list randomly, should there even be a list showing which licenses will be available that day or week?

Should you have to use your points if you get a re-issued tag for a male animal? If so, how do you do this when different people have different amounts of points?

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on these topics. Let’s keep it civil and on track. Thanks!

 

[30PointBuck]

I like your thoughts.

Another idea: I've always thought a weekly or biweekly draw throughout the reissue "season" has the potential to solve a lot of problems. The weekly draw would use preference points. It would help solve a couple issues: point creep and being at a computer and having the fastest connection at 11 am Wednesday. These would be true additional draws mirroring the primary draw structure.

 

[Snoopdogg]

I like your thoughts.

Another idea: I've always thought a weekly or biweekly draw throughout the reissue "season" has the potential to solve a lot of problems. The weekly draw would use preference points. It would help solve a couple issues: point creep and being at a computer and having the fastest connection at 11 am Wednesday. These would be true additional draws mirroring the primary draw structure.

Interesting....

 

[Southpawshooter]

I like your thoughts.

Another idea: I've always thought a weekly or biweekly draw throughout the reissue "season" has the potential to solve a lot of problems. The weekly draw would use preference points. It would help solve a couple issues: point creep and being at a computer and having the fastest connection at 11 am Wednesday. These would be true additional draws mirroring the primary draw structure.

If you want to do this why not just keep going down the list from the primary draw and get rid of the re-issue? Not a fan of this idea, personally.

My thoughts are go back to random times. I wouldn't be opposed to NR tags to NR and R to R like Nevada does.

 

[Deercy]

Just do like Wyoming. No reissue. Draw the tag, and then hunt it or don't. Come on.

 

[Deercy]

I, personally, enjoy the process. It's a bonus, and a way to secure more opportunity. The only change I see necessary is resident needs to be 75 percent.

 

[coloradoman]

I, personally, enjoy the process. It's a bonus, and a way to secure more opportunity. The only change I see necessary is resident needs to be 75 percent.

Nope it needs to be 90%

 

[Deercy]

Well, get us 90 percent on the regular then.

 

[Country]

I’m with Deercy, do it like Wyoming and get rid of the reissue process altogether. Once you draw a tag, it’s yours to hunt or nor hunt.

 

[txhunter58]

Might be too much money involved. I would be ok with res preference. But the system they set up (with your blessing) makes them a lot more money selling it to a NR, so may be a hard sell.

Absolutely I prefer the random draw. AND so does CPW. But it was the animal board that made them change it. CPW recommendation was to continue the random. So it’s not CPW you have to talk to about that.

 

[30PointBuck]

Just do like Wyoming. No reissue. Draw the tag, and then hunt it or don't. Come

No reissue would be my preference overall.

 

[lif]

Leftovers are first come first serve starting the day after draw results. Turn in tags have to be turned in by June 30th or you lose money and points. Secondary draw of turned in tags happens July 10. Draw is open to men, women, children. No preference.

 

[lif]

And I believe resident tags go to residents and non residents tags go to either resident or non resident.

 

[lif]

And I’m a non resident with 2 kids who hunt. My son will put in for the secondary draw this year because of the youth preference. But I don’t agree with the policy.

 

[30PointBuck]

And I’m a non resident with 2 kids who hunt. My son will put in for the secondary draw this year because of the youth preference. But I don’t agree with the policy.

You are a person with principles!

 

[Deercy]

And I believe resident tags go to residents and non residents tags go to either resident or non resident.

You sure about this?

 

[lif]

I favor residents over non residents in every state.

 

[txhunter58]

There will be no NR tags if they do that. There will only 1 or a couple of tags in most units. If res get the first 75% there will be no NR who get tags.

I know, I know, res will be fine with that!

 

[RRCowboyStar]

I did not like the change to Tuesday at 11 am. I liked the Random, but I have the availability to be in front of a computer. A lot of people don't have that option.
I think the most fair way is a weekly random draw. You have to have the points needed and you lose them with any draw tag.

 

[Stevo]

Weekly draw, same as primary. Those with the most points gets the tag. This would significantly help with point creep in my opinion.

 

[COHunter]

I like the preview and the set open time. What I don't like is it being open to everyone. First half hour to hour should be Residents only.

Why you ask? because unless you are from here, AZ, CA and maybe NM you can just go buy a deer tag at Walmart if you are from any other state. You already have a tag in your pocket, I don't!

And no I didn't apply for some hard to draw tag, I put in for a Whitetail only tag on the plains and still didn't get drawn because the clowns at CPW always have to screw with things like GMU groupings this year

 

[KJW]

I do get frustrated seeing good tags on this list that I have no chance at, but I try to find a youth to help out so at least I can go do the hunt if they get lucky. If a change is made I’d like to see it go like others said, you draw it, it’s yours. I think it would benefit those that really want the tag where a lot of people apply just to have a backup and probably not much intention to hunt the tag knowing they can turn it in.

 

[tracker12]

If the tag drawn would take more than 5 points to draw in the regular you should loose your points.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

If the tag drawn would take more than 5 points to draw in the regular you should loose your points.

You should have to have the points needed for the tag to apply for it, and then loose your points. Just like the primary draw. This would be a true preference point secondary draw. Should help point creep.

 

[tracker12]

I actually like UT system. If someone turn in a tag they to the first alternate. Buddy was able to get a UT coveted leg tag 2 years ago.

 

[fallguy]

If the tag drawn would take more than 5 points to draw in the regular you should loose your points.

How do you make it fair when different guys have different amounts of points?

 

[Deercy]

When I turn 18 I'll start lobbying for it to go the route of no return. That would reduce the talk on here by 50 percent. I actually like the conversation, but it is surprising the amount of ignorance. Lots of people have very little idea how it all works. Just a bunch of ignorant people who speak about their thoughts as if they are facts. It's common on I Hunt Colorado Facebook, I used to think it was a bit better here.

 

[tracker12]

How do you make it fair when different guys have different amounts of points?

It's your choice. You know going in that it will cost you your points. Your choice. That being said where doe "FAIR" come into play anywhere these days?

 

[Danny_Ocean]

It's your choice. You know going in that it will cost you your points. Your choice. That being said where doe "FAIR" come into play anywhere these days?

Especially when guys don’t have the points to ever draw, or already did and they want to change “the system”

All those old tags used to go straight to the garbage, I like “recycling”

 

[JakeH]

Especially when guys don’t have the points to ever draw, or already did and they want to change “the system”

All those old tags used to go straight to the garbage, I like “recycling”

Yeah it's funny how guys would rather see all those tags go in the garbage then seeing someone else using them, or having a legitimate chance at getting one themselves.

 

[Deercy]

They wouldn't go in the trash. If the person drawing it didn't have that option, it would get used. And the points required in the first place wouldn't be recycled.

 

[Deercy]

And point creep slowed down. Even if slightly. You think those guys that turned them in aren't still planning on hunting?

 

[JakeH]

And point creep slowed down. Even if slightly. You think those guys that turned them in aren't still planning on hunting?

You think it would have any meaningful impact on point creep? Fat chance.

And he said those tags used to go to the trash which is a fact. You guys just have a problem now because people are getting to hunt on those tags.

I've hunted two tags that I otherwise would never have gotten to hunt had they not started the turn back system. One was a 20+ point draw, the other was an 11 point draw.

Personally I love the turn back tags, the only change I would make is to take it back to complete random when putting in them on the list. But I've gotten tags both ways.

 

[Deercy]

I don't have an issue with the current setup. Most others do in one way or another. It's more opportunity. I've pulled some tags. But.. take the 5 67 2nd rifle tags. I have no idea how many points were used, but let's say those guys put in next year again. 44 of 78 drew with 2 points. If they were to put in next year, your chances of drawing with 2 points just dropped almost 10 percent. Not insignificant if you are applying with 2 points. I applied one year and was the lone guy not drawn in my point pool. Next year it had crept into the next point and I missed again. The following year I had back surgery. I still haven't hunted those points. Everybody really wants what's best for ME, naturally. But those tags represent a lot of points, I don't care what you say. And that would be positive, not negative, no matter how small of an amount.

 

[SWAGshootn]

It is amazing to me the amount of selfishness going on with residents. They want more and more of the tags in their own home state. They want all the advantages of the reissue or turn back or secondary draw. And FOR WHAT?? So they can have an advantage in 1 STATE?? Their home state?? Meanwhile due to this selfish attitude.... it forces all the other western states to adopt the same attitude and the nonresident looses out on all the other chances to get a tag. Makes absolutely no sense. We are cutting off our nose to spite our face. Leave the second chance opportunities open to both Resident and NR with no preference. Sure you have a little less chance in 1 state, but have a way better chance in 8 or 9 others.

I do agree if you get a tag in any process, under any circumstance, you should lose your points. Landowner, Ranching for wildlife, CWMU, Sportsmans, Governors tag, Western Hunting Expo, First Draw, Second, Draw, Reissue.

 

[Triple7]

I do agree if you get a tag in any process, under any circumstance, you should lose your points. Landowner, Ranching for wildlife, CWMU, Sportsmans, Governors tag, Western Hunting Expo, First Draw, Second, Draw, Reissue.

I agree 100 % with your last paragraph

 

[travishunter3006]

If you are a resident and want a tag then put in the draw. Why would you get preference on left over licenses if you didn’t put in the initial draw?

 

[HntHrdr]

It is amazing to me the amount of selfishness going on with residents. They want more and more of the tags in their own home state. They want all the advantages of the reissue or turn back or secondary draw. And FOR WHAT?? So they can have an advantage in 1 STATE?? Their home state?? Meanwhile due to this selfish attitude.... it forces all the other western states to adopt the same attitude and the nonresident looses out on all the other chances to get a tag. Makes absolutely no sense. We are cutting off our nose to spite our face. Leave the second chance opportunities open to both Resident and NR with no preference. Sure you have a little less chance in 1 state, but have a way better chance in 8 or 9 others.

I do agree if you get a tag in any process, under any circumstance, you should lose your points. Landowner, Ranching for wildlife, CWMU, Sportsmans, Governors tag, Western Hunting Expo, First Draw, Second, Draw, Reissue.

Yep we are super selfish! We want to hunt our home state. I was talking to a guy from Wisconsin about how selfish I was, he only had deer tags in WI& ND he also was hunting otc elk and got a mule deer in Co to boot and a pronghorn tag in Wyoming… but yeah those dang Co residents bunch of selfish A-holes!

 

[lif]

If you are a resident and want a tag then put in the draw. Why would you get preference on left over licenses if you didn’t put in the initial draw?

To be clear, I am not a Colorado resident. Those tags are not primarily leftover tags. They are tags that were drawn and turned back in after the draw. If they were originally drawn by a resident, then they should go back to the residents. Just my opinion, but mathematically it seems to make sense to me. And they were also not likely drawn by a youth. ?

 

[RRCowboyStar]

To be clear, I am not a Colorado resident. Those tags are not primarily leftover tags. They are tags that were drawn and turned back in after the draw. If they were originally drawn by a resident, then they should go back to the residents. Just my opinion, but mathematically it seems to make sense to me. And they were also not likely drawn by a youth. ?

The Leftover Draw IS Primarily Leftover Tags. Just the Prime ones are Returned Tags. For as long as I can remember the leftover draw was just tags that were "Leftover". Only the past few years returned tags were added.

 

[oldmossback]

To all of you who are saying we should lose our points if drawn for a reissue tag.... give this a thought. A lot of those tags hit the reissue list very late in the game, some even after the season has started. Now if you are sitting on 15-25 points are you going to try for one of those tags with no time left to scout? I am not !

 

[HntHrdr]

To all of you who are saying we should lose our points if drawn for a reissue tag.... give this a thought. A lot of those tags hit the reissue list very late in the game, some even after the season has started. Now if you are sitting on 15-25 points are you going to try for one of those tags with no time left to scout? I am not !

That is tough, it would definitely favor guys who burn points or have no points to get left over stuff and also make guys choose between sitting on a pile of points or hunting. I think it would force the “system players” heck I am one myself to pick. No more having your cake ( getting a point) and eating it too ( getting an otc, 2nd-4th choice, 2nd draw or leftover tag)

 

[JakeH]

To all of you who are saying we should lose our points if drawn for a reissue tag.... give this a thought. A lot of those tags hit the reissue list very late in the game, some even after the season has started. Now if you are sitting on 15-25 points are you going to try for one of those tags with no time left to scout? I am not !

I got a 20+ point tag the day before the season opened, luckily I lived fairly close to the unit and knew it a bit. I did kill my biggest scoring deer on that hunt.

Also picked up a 11 point tag a week before the hunt.

Granted I didn't have a ton of points but I probably would have used them for both.

I have gotten some lesser tags that I wouldn't have gotten if I had to burn many points.

That said I just burned all my deer points this year so I am fine with implementing that rule. Lol

 

[lif]

The Leftover Draw IS Primarily Leftover Tags. Just the Prime ones are Returned Tags. For as long as I can remember the leftover draw was just tags that were "Leftover". Only the past few years returned tags were added.

I’m aware of all that. The majority of tags that people are interested in are turn back tags. I don’t think too many men are concerned about youth getting preference on leftover tags that no one wanted as a second choice in the initial draw.

 

[RRCowboyStar]

Lif. Not sure of your point? I think there are a lot of men who are fathers and mentors who are concerned about our youth.
I believe the Leftover draw should be just that, a preference point draw. The highest preference point holder gets the tag. The same split as regular draw 75% Res. 25% Non Res.
You lose your points when you get a tag.

 

[lif]

Lif. Not sure of your point? I think there are a lot of men who are fathers and mentors who are concerned about our youth.
I believe the Leftover draw should be just that, a preference point draw. The highest preference point holder gets the tag. The same split as regular draw 75% Res. 25% Non Res.
You lose your points when you get a tag.

I don’t disagree. And apologize for coming off shitty. I am a father who gets his son more tags than I get myself. My son will have his name in the leftover draw. I just don’t agree with the format even though I’m trying to have my son take advantage of it. I’m not a Colorado resident, but I do feel that residents should have an advantage over non residents. Especially when resident tags are turned back in and could then end up in a non residents hands.

 

[Thill]

I did not like the change to Tuesday at 11 am. I liked the Random, but I have the availability to be in front of a computer. A lot of people don't have that option.
I think the most fair way is a weekly random draw. You have to have the points needed and you lose them with any draw tag.

Unless you have a desk job and nobody is monitoring your activities, I used to check the random all the time. Actually I was embarrassed at how many times I would check it. I did actually pick up some great tags, but I had a strategy.

Having a preview list is a good idea and allows us all to at least try around the upload time.

I was part of the focus group last year trying to address preference points and really think it was a waste of my time. Maybe if enough people attend the open houses and with a loud enough voice they might listen and some of the ideas might take hold such as cashing in points to get a reissue tag.

I have been able to pick up 30 years of deer tags in the last couple of years all the while adding a preference point to spend in the coming years.

The current reissue process indirectly is generating point creep!!

 

[Crampy]

The tag isn't "wasted" because it doesn't get reissued.

No reissuing tags - period. Even for the silly lax return rules states.
Let the animal live and contribute to improved age class the following year.

In time, the biologist's quotas will naturally be increased by X% to account for return rates. Even if the biologist isn't expressly attributing a portion of the quota to account for return tags, if the surveys call for more harvest, the quota will go up.

Reissue & dad draw = point creep.

 

[canyoncrosser]

I will let you know if changes need to be made to this process depending on whether or not my son draws…

 

[txhunter58]

Pretty simple, if you don’t want to spend the points the day or week before the season, don’t do it. Someone will, and their points will go to zero, not yours.

 

[snowymtn]

Weekly Re-Issued Licenses
Residents receive priority. Not sure how to do this. Maybe by time like the first hour after posting is open to residents only.

My answer: yes - first hour is resident then go to non res.

Questions to Ponder on Re-issues
Should you have to use your points if you get a re-issued tag for a male animal? If so, how do you do this when different people have different amounts of points?

My answer: using points would have less people drawing and high the probability to draw. Or maybe you use ONE point. Or maybe if the tag requires X amount of points in primary draw then during the first 24 hours you use X amount of points to draw then after 24 hours one point then after that zero points used.

 

[Soccerdude]

When do we find out the secondary draw results? I can't find a date on their website.

 

[fallguy]

When do we find out the secondary draw results? I can't find a date on their website.

July 7 - back cover of regs book.

 

[Soccerdude]

July 7 - back cover of regs book.

Thank you for the quick reply. Now I know what date my boy and nephews will be disappointed on.

 

[Deercy]

Might be too much money involved. I would be ok with res preference. But the system they set up (with your blessing) makes them a lot more money selling it to a NR, so may be a hard sell.

Absolutely I prefer the random draw. AND so does CPW. But it was the animal board that made them change it. CPW recommendation was to continue the random. So it’s not CPW you have to talk to about that.

How do you know it has my blessing? (Are you an undercover resident of my house?)

 

[fallguy]

Might be too much money involved. I would be ok with res preference. But the system they set up (with your blessing) makes them a lot more money selling it to a NR, so may be a hard sell.

Absolutely I prefer the random draw. AND so does CPW. But it was the animal board that made them change it. CPW recommendation was to continue the random. So it’s not CPW you have to talk to about that.

What's the story on the "animal board" on this? Thanks.

 

[txhunter58]

How do you know it has my blessing? (Are you an undercover resident of my house?)

Every time this came up in the past where CPW raised our tag costs and not yours, it was always the same from residents: quit your whining, all the other states are doing it, just give up that coke at lunch and you will be able to afford the increase, ect ect…... Now it’s coming back to haunt Colorado residents (you) because CPW got addicted to our money. That’s on you guys, not us.

 

[txhunter58]

What's the story on the "animal board" on this? Thanks.

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...

cpw.state.co.us

CPW advised random additions. They were overruled, I believe, by this commission. If that is wrong, someone correct me.

 

[Deercy]

Every time this came up in the past where CPW raised our tag costs and not yours, it was always the same from residents: quit your whining, all the other states are doing it, just give up that coke at lunch and you will be able to afford the increase, ect ect…... Now it’s coming back to haunt Colorado residents (you) because CPW got addicted to our money. That’s on you guys, not us.

My blessing? Nobody listens to me. I still say quit your whining. I'll gladly pay nonresident prices for better odds. I'm not that rich but that is doable. I'd gladly pay 2000 for a voucher for my pet 2nd rifle deer tag. Will they listen to me ? Evidently.

 

[txhunter58]

No whining here. Just smiling. At 65, I maybe have another 15 years to hunt (maybe more?). I can afford whatever they charge for that many hunts. Young people (over 18) not so much.. I started hunting Colorado in my mid 20s and have hunted almost every year since then. Don’t know many 20 somethings today that are doing that. Good news if you live long enough, your odds will Prob improve ?

 

[oldmossback]

I got a 20+ point tag the day before the season opened, luckily I lived fairly close to the unit and knew it a bit. I did kill my biggest scoring deer on that hunt.

Also picked up a 11 point tag a week before the hunt.

Granted I didn't have a ton of points but I probably would have used them for both.

I have gotten some lesser tags that I wouldn't have gotten if I had to burn many points.

That said I just burned all my deer points this year so I am fine with implementing that rule. Lol

Well as long as you are ok with it that is all that matters

 

[oldmossback]

The tag isn't "wasted" because it doesn't get reissued.

No reissuing tags - period. Even for the silly lax return rules states.
Let the animal live and contribute to improved age class the following year.

In time, the biologist's quotas will naturally be increased by X% to account for return rates. Even if the biologist isn't expressly attributing a portion of the quota to account for return tags, if the surveys call for more harvest, the quota will go up.

Reissue & dad draw = point creep.

Agreed, either go back to the random reissue or just do away with the reissue system all together. Eliminating will create a better gene pool, larger populations and eventually increased tag numbers which will eventually reduce points creep.

 

[JakeH]

Well as long as you are ok with it that is all that matters

I'm glad we can agree ?

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Agreed, either go back to the random reissue or just do away with the reissue system all together. Eliminating will create a better gene pool, larger populations and eventually increased tag numbers which will eventually reduce points creep.

I didn't realize point creep was going down before they started the reissue process.

 

[Conrad8899]

I am not a Colorado resident but if I was there would be no more otc NR elk tags... Reissue tags would go to residents first all drawn first choice antlered tags would loose points weather in the initial draw or reissue.

 

[txhunter58]

If you take a bighorn sheep, moose, ect tag as a reissue, you lose your points. That should apply across the board

 

[txhunter58]

Todays the day. Hope all your kids drew!

 

[Deercy]

Todays the day. Hope all your kids drew!

(He says bitterly) I have a charge. Hope its not for this trashy leftover area.

 

[Soccerdude]

My boy didn't draw. Tough deer tag. My nephew drew a deer tag.

 

[canyoncrosser]

OK,now I think changes need to be made to this process! Just kidding. My son didn’t draw.

 

[Deercy]

I get the impression that everybody is applying for some youngster. It seems like theres a lot of chatter about it. I look forward to reading the draw recap.

 

[oldmossback]

I didn't realize point creep was going down before they started the reissue process.

Didn't say it was but common sense would say that if herd populations grew so would tag numbers which would mean it should take less points to draw more tags.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Didn't say it was but common sense would say that if herd populations grew so would tag numbers which would mean it should take less points to draw more tags.

According to the harvest stats they are not increasing enough to have an effect on the population. There aren't enough reissue tags to make that big of a difference. Plus, they aren't "new tags" they've already been accounted for in the quota.

 

[Codylee1985]

Man some of y’all sure are bitter ?

I’m super stoked the kids get 1st crack at the secondary draw, and would be fine giving up some of my opportunity at the tags in the follow up reissue if they went entirely to the kids!

That being said I liked it back in the day when it was the 1st come 1st served for the leftovers in person, that gave the residents the advantage but for non residents like me that were willing to make the drive and camp on the porch that was a pretty cool experience as well!!!

In regards to the extras in the re issue I think it’s cool it’s a set time every week, that gives the folks who have to work in spots who don’t have good service the opportunity at tags as well if you’re willing to set a lil time aside once a week!

As much as I’ve enjoyed getting re issue tags and maintaining preference points I think it’d be fair enough to take preference points when you are successfully in acquiring a re issue, although not fair to folks with over the threshold 5 points, and in that case maybe those folks who get a re issue just wouldn’t gain a pp that year…

It’s easy to criticize the game departments, but I feel the Colorado re issue process is as fair and gives as much opportunity to folks as any in the west!

Good luck to everyone this year and I just feel fortunate to have harvested 15 bucks in Colorado since I was 12 years old!!!

 

[graybird]

My oldest son drew his 1st choice 2nd season buck tag to go along with his bull tag for the same season and units. He also drew his 3rd choice antelope doe tag.

Youngest son drew his first choice buck antelope tag.

I drew my 1st choice mzl antelope doe tag to match the buck tag I drew in the 1st draw.

Looking forward to spending time in the field with my sons, regardless if I’m the trigger yanker.

 

[Deercy]

So a quick scan of the draw recap. There are numerous instances (it appears) where adults received tags before the youth applicants were satisfied. Also,there are a lot of tags where nonresident youth received a higher statistical percentage than youth. I just scanned it quickly over my lunch break. Ill need to spend more time with it. I enjoy the draw recap, and the different storylines that roll off it.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Your assessment looks correct quite a few instances of adults pulling tags where not all youth applicants were filled. I also noticed a lot of instances of non resident youth outdrawing resident youth by a wide margin. Does CPW not adhere to the R/NR percentages in the secondary draw?

 

[oldmossback]

According to the harvest stats they are not increasing enough to have an effect on the population. There aren't enough reissue tags to make that big of a difference. Plus, they aren't "new tags" they've already been accounted for in the quota.

Give it 10-20 years

 

[Ridn9high]

So a quick scan of the draw recap. There are numerous instances (it appears) where adults received tags before the youth applicants were satisfied

I’m guessing here, but I’m thinking they probably drew a different hunt code as first choice, so the rest of their choices(2nd,3rd,4th) are void and will make it look like adults took tags that a youth should have.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Give it 10-20 years

haha you serious? In 20 years regardless of re-issue tags the opportunity will be dwindled and point creep will still be bad. You should look at the CWD excuse, demand, wolves, winter kill, etc. before you try to single out the reissue tags.

 

[oldmossback]

Your assessment looks correct quite a few instances of adults pulling tags where not all youth applicants were filled. I also noticed a lot of instances of non resident youth outdrawing resident youth by a wide margin. Does CPW not adhere to the R/NR percentages in the secondary draw?

No CPW does not do the % non res vs res in secondary draw. It doesn't matter if you are a res or not. Although looking at the results it sure looks like the higher $ amounts are favored.

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

No CPW does not do the % non res vs res in secondary draw. It doesn't matter if you are a res or not. Although looking at the results it sure looks like the higher $ amounts are favored.

they were heavily favored a few units all the tags went to nonresidents

 

[oldmossback]

haha you serious? In 20 years regardless of re-issue tags the opportunity will be dwindled and point creep will still be bad. You should look at the CWD excuse, demand, wolves, winter kill, etc. before you try to single out the rei

Sorry , I thought this post was about reissue and secondary draw. Not winter kill,wolves demand,etc

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Sorry , I thought this post was about reissue and secondary draw. Not winter kill,wolves demand,etc

It is I was just pointing out how low on the list of reasons the reissue tags are for declining herds and point creep

 

[cowhitey]

I cannot believe the thousands of adults that still don't understand the secondary draw process or they are just stupid. I see many draw recap reports for hunts that have 1 tag available and 40-200 adults applying for it. CPW says "thanks for your donation"!

 

[HntHrdr]

they were heavily favored a few units all the tags went to nonresidents

Residents getting screwed again by CPW? Wut ? no way I’m sooooo surprised, pretty much standard here in ole Co

 

[fallguy]

Residents getting screwed again by CPW? Wut ? no way I’m sooooo surprised, pretty much standard here in ole Co

Choice 1 success rates for elk: NR Youth 60%., CO youth 57%, CO Adults 21%. I think it's time to start making some noise with commissioners before next week's meeting.

 

[Deercy]

Choice 1 success rates for elk: NR Youth 60%., CO youth 57%, CO Adults 21%. I think it's time to start making some noise with commissioners before next week's meeting.

How?

 

[JakeH]

Choice 1 success rates for elk: NR Youth 60%., CO youth 57%, CO Adults 21%. I think it's time to start making some noise with commissioners before next week's meeting.

Now do deer.

Youth res 1st choice was 43% for all choices they was 49%
Youth non res was around 32% for all choices they was 35%

No conspiracy just luck of the draw when everyone has the same odds. What did you guys expect?

That said the resident youth still got the vast majority of the tags. 1122 res youth and only 345 non res youth for elk. First choice apps. That's roughly 31% of the tags going to non res youth

And 975 to 241 for deer first choice apps that's only 25% of the tags going to non res youth.

 

[fallguy]

Now do deer.

Youth res 1st choice was 43% for all choices they was 49%
Youth non res was around 32% for all choices they was 35%

No conspiracy just luck of the draw when everyone has the same odds. What did you guys expect?

That said the resident youth still got the vast majority of the tags. 1122 res youth and only 345 non res youth for elk. First choice apps. That's roughly 31% of the tags going to non res youth

And 975 to 241 for deer first choice apps that's only 25% of the tags going to non res youth.

I should have been more specific. Where I think this is broken is not having some kind of resident preference in the Secondary Draw and also the Re-issues to come. When I try to justify why a NR youth should have equal preference with Res youth and total preference over Res adults, I can't come up with a good reason. One may argue that they get to hunt a new species but that doesn't trump a resident not being able to hunt in his home state. Let's be real about this, a lot of youth are coming from states where they can get multiple deer tags and hunt multiple seasons. It's not like they don't get to hunt if they don't snag a CO tag.

 

[nripepi]

I should have been more specific. Where I think this is broken is not having some kind of resident preference in the Secondary Draw and also the Re-issues to come. When I try to justify why a NR youth should have equal preference with Res youth and total preference over Res adults, I can't come up with a good reason. One may argue that they get to hunt a new species but that doesn't trump a resident not being able to hunt in his home state. Let's be real about this, a lot of youth are coming from states where they can get multiple deer tags and hunt multiple seasons. It's not like they don't get to hunt if they don't snag a CO tag.

Just curious why the secondary and reissue should be different than the primary draw? Just make them all the same, 80/20 or whatever you all decide on.

 

[fallguy]

Just curious why the secondary and reissue should be different than the primary draw? Just make them all the same, 80/20 or whatever you all decide on.

I don't know why. It would be easy to do for the Secondary but Re-issues would require another method.

 

[nripepi]

I don't know why. It would be easy to do for the Secondary but Re-issues would require another method.

Once 20% of tags are in a non-resident cart on reissues, stop allowing non-residents to add a tag.

 

[fallguy]

Once 20% of tags are in a non-resident cart on reissues, stop allowing non-residents to add a tag.

Could this be done if they brought back random populating of the hunt codes versus the Wednesday cluster and log jam?

 

[Mooretitan]

Let’s take a look from a nonresident youth view. My son drew a really good deer tag which he is very excited about. Now the same tag in the regular draw would be a tag he might never be able to hunt with point creep and if he did ever get enough points it would be a once in a lifetime hunt. Now take a resident youth. They would be able to hunt that tag roughly ever 4-5 years. So I am great full that Colorado 1. Let’s youth 1st go at these tags 2. Let’s everyone be on the same playing field. Because of this we will be able to have a great opportunity and build some memories that would have never happened. The same resident youth will still be able to have that hunt multiple times throughout their life if these choose. We are one and done.
Now I am fully aware that Colorado can do whatever they want as far as tags and if my son did get a tag over a resident youth I would understand them being a little frustrated just wanted to point out the other side of the fence.
The easier way to fix this is not letting tags be returned so easy but again that would hurt youth chances of pulling pretty good tags.
Anyways good luck this season to everyone. And thanks for Colorado for the opportunity.

 

[HntHrdr]

Just curious why the secondary and reissue should be different than the primary draw? Just make them all the same, 80/20 or whatever you all decide on.

Yes easy fix

 

[HntHrdr]

Let’s take a look from a nonresident youth view. My son drew a really good deer tag which he is very excited about. Now the same tag in the regular draw would be a tag he might never be able to hunt with point creep and if he did ever get enough points it would be a once in a lifetime hunt. Now take a resident youth. They would be able to hunt that tag roughly ever 4-5 years. So I am great full that Colorado 1. Let’s youth 1st go at these tags 2. Let’s everyone be on the same playing field. Because of this we will be able to have a great opportunity and build some memories that would have never happened. The same resident youth will still be able to have that hunt multiple times throughout their life if these choose. We are one and done.
Now I am fully aware that Colorado can do whatever they want as far as tags and if my son did get a tag over a resident youth I would understand them being a little frustrated just wanted to point out the other side of the fence.
The easier way to fix this is not letting tags be returned so easy but again that would hurt youth chances of pulling pretty good tags.
Anyways good luck this season to everyone. And thanks for Colorado for the opportunity.

I’m mean that’s a healthy amount of biased just like everyone else brings to the table, but good luck to your son I hope he has a heck of a hunt

 

[Ridn9high]

Let’s say for hunt code deer 21 2nd. What if 10 NR turned in tags and 2 res turned in tags. In reality the 10 tags should go back to NR and the 2 should go back to Res as that is the way they were drawn from the primary and would keep the split as it was originally.

 

[fallguy]

Let’s take a look from a nonresident youth view. My son drew a really good deer tag which he is very excited about. Now the same tag in the regular draw would be a tag he might never be able to hunt with point creep and if he did ever get enough points it would be a once in a lifetime hunt. Now take a resident youth. They would be able to hunt that tag roughly ever 4-5 years. So I am great full that Colorado 1. Let’s youth 1st go at these tags 2. Let’s everyone be on the same playing field. Because of this we will be able to have a great opportunity and build some memories that would have never happened. The same resident youth will still be able to have that hunt multiple times throughout their life if these choose. We are one and done.
Now I am fully aware that Colorado can do whatever they want as far as tags and if my son did get a tag over a resident youth I would understand them being a little frustrated just wanted to point out the other side of the fence.
The easier way to fix this is not letting tags be returned so easy but again that would hurt youth chances of pulling pretty good tags.
Anyways good luck this season to everyone. And thanks for Colorado for the opportunity.

I hope your son has a great hunt - I really do and I don't blame you both for being excited. But there's no way NR's should get equal to better odds than residents. You can spin it anyway you want but it doesn't add up.

No need to make returning tags easier. The problem isn't that the tags are available, it's how they are being distributed.

 

[fallguy]

Let’s say for hunt code deer 21 2nd. What if 10 NR turned in tags and 2 res turned in tags. In reality the 10 tags should go back to NR and the 2 should go back to Res as that is the way they were drawn from the primary and would keep the split as it was originally.

What if all 12 of those tags were turned in by adults? Would only adults eligible to apply?