Corner crossing case

[Bookhead]

We reached 600 comments of high fast flyer being the most ignorant person on the forum congrats hff you finally did a thing!

 

[jm77]

Nope….They dropped the charge…….

Oh, a law breaker and a liar!!

"As far as my case I did not agree with the law but did not fight it as the Citation was $200 and the attorney fees would have far exceed this so I just paid the citation."

 

[highfastflyer]

Since this is the 600th post and SS! is going to like it, I saw him in Walmart yesterday preparing for his next adventure……..

 

[highfastflyer]

Oh, a law breaker and a liar!!

"As far as my case I did not agree with the law but did not fight it as the Citation was $200 and the attorney fees would have far exceed this so I just paid the citation."

Old news. I did get an attorney, they knew the law was likely in the process of being changed and dropped it all.

 

[jm77]

Old news. I did get an attorney, they knew the law was likely in the process of being changed and dropped it all.

So which was it, did you pay the citation like you said or get an attorney like you're saying now? Got a FOIA request on the case so don't lie.

But you're such a liar!!

 

[highfastflyer]

So which was it, did you pay the citation like you said or get an attorney like you're saying now? Got a FOIA request on the case so don't lie.

But you're such a liar!!

Maybe I should just thank you and give you all the credit as in your mind your a Legend. Keep telling yourself that……..

 

[BuzzH]

I smell rags burning...its highfastliars pants on fire.

 

[highfastflyer]

I smell rags burning...its highfastliars pants on fire.

I hear that a lot about you, smelling old pants and used shorts…….

 

[Savage110]

Nope, you got busted!!

post the link or it didn't happen

 

[BuzzH]

post the link or it didn't happen

Patience grasshopper...

 

[BuzzH]

In the meantime, latest update:

Corner-crossing bill emerges as G&F commissioner pulls license donation - WyoFile

Proposed legislation would more broadly define hunter trespass as the Game and Fish Commission president seeks to distance himself from the fraught issue.

wyofile.com

 

[OutdoorWriter]

posted Feb 15, 6:20 AM Hide Post High Country News article Why four hunters in Wyoming were charged with trespassing on land they never touched A checkerboard pattern of parcel ownership complicates public land access in the West. Kylie Mohr Feb. 14, 2022 Bountiful big game in the alpine meadows and timbered ravines of Wyoming’s Elk Mountain drew four Missouri hunters to the area last fall. They encountered several points where the corners of four land parcels met: two public and two private plots, alternating like the squares of a checkerboard. The camo-clad bow hunters tried to move as if they were checkers on the landscape, stepping diagonally between the Bureau of Land Management parcels where they were hunting in order to avoid lots that belonged to the privately owned Elk Mountain Ranch. Land ownership in southern Wyoming, like much of the West, is a patchwork of interspersed parcels. Wyoming’s checkerboard originated when the federal government took land from the Shoshone, Arapaho, Lakota, Cheyenne and other tribal nations, often by breaking treaties, and gave alternating parcels to railroads to encourage development. The result resembles a neat grid on paper, but a messy landscape in real life. The men had numerous encounters with an irate ranch manager, as well as with Wyoming Game and Fish officers and Carbon County sheriff’s deputies. According to the hunters, officials told them they’d done nothing wrong. But on Oct. 4, a deputy greeted them in camp with criminal trespass citations that carried up to six months in jail and a penalty of up to $750. The hunters never actually set foot on private land; they used a stepladder to hopscotch over the corners. But in doing so, they violated the airspace above the land, which belongs to the landowner. The case, now pending in Carbon County Circuit Court, sheds light on what’s called “corner crossing,” traveling between public land parcels where the corners touch. The verdict could clarify if, and how, the public can access millions of acres of public land. A 2018 report from the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and the map app company onX found 2.28 million acres of federal and state land in Wyoming are inaccessible due to checkerboarding — effectively turning some public lands into an extension of surrounding landowners’ private backyards. Like other Western states, Wyoming has no statute explicitly allowing or prohibiting corner crossing. Opponents say it’s a problem because even if the land isn’t physically impacted, invading its airspace erodes private property rights. Phone calls to the ranch, owned by wealthy businessman Fred Eshelman, weren’t returned. A 2004 Wyoming attorney general’s opinion states that while corner crossing doesn’t violate the state’s hunting laws, it “may still be a criminal trespass” — something game wardens lack the authority to enforce and must refer to the local sheriff or county attorney. “This is a murky legal area, due in part to the failure of Congress to ensure access to landlocked federal public lands.” It’s messy elsewhere, too: Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife officers won’t cite people for corner crossing, but attorneys general in Utah and Colorado have informed their state wildlife agencies that it’s illegal. “This is a murky legal area, due in part to the failure of Congress to ensure access to landlocked federal public lands,” said Martin Nie, a professor of natural resource policy at the University of Montana. While this case involves hunters, anyone wanting to access public land — whether for climbing, hiking, foraging or bird watching — has an interest in the outcome. A hunter’s attorney filed a motion to dismiss the charges in January, arguing that federal law prohibits people from preventing free passage through public lands. A jury trial is currently scheduled for April. If they’re found guilty, the men could appeal the decision to the Wyoming Supreme Court, but even then, any ruling would apply only to Wyoming. “The hopes of what this would resolve might be overblown,” said Joel Webster, vice president of western conservation for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. “And, in fact, it could make it harder to work constructively with landowners.” Then there’s the chance of political pushback. “My fear is that it inevitably lands at the Legislature, which historically hasn’t been the place to solve this,” said Jess Johnson, the Wyoming Wildlife Federation’s government affairs director. Bills to legalize corner crossing died in Wyoming in 2011, Montana in 2013 and Nevada in 2017. Johnson thinks the conversation will be more productive when tension from the October dispute dies down. “(The way) to change really hot-button policy issues that have lots of emotion around them is not by lighting a bonfire,” she said. “It’s a slow burn.” Kylie Mohr is an editorial intern for High Country News writing from Montana. Email her at [email protected] or submit a letter to the editor. See our letters to the editor policy.

 

[BuzzH]

​

posted Feb 15, 6:20 AM Hide Post High Country News article Why four hunters in Wyoming were charged with trespassing on land they never touched A checkerboard pattern of parcel ownership complicates public land access in the West. Kylie Mohr Feb. 14, 2022 Bountiful big game in the alpine meadows and timbered ravines of Wyoming’s Elk Mountain drew four Missouri hunters to the area last fall. They encountered several points where the corners of four land parcels met: two public and two private plots, alternating like the squares of a checkerboard. The camo-clad bow hunters tried to move as if they were checkers on the landscape, stepping diagonally between the Bureau of Land Management parcels where they were hunting in order to avoid lots that belonged to the privately owned Elk Mountain Ranch. Land ownership in southern Wyoming, like much of the West, is a patchwork of interspersed parcels. Wyoming’s checkerboard originated when the federal government took land from the Shoshone, Arapaho, Lakota, Cheyenne and other tribal nations, often by breaking treaties, and gave alternating parcels to railroads to encourage development. The result resembles a neat grid on paper, but a messy landscape in real life. The men had numerous encounters with an irate ranch manager, as well as with Wyoming Game and Fish officers and Carbon County sheriff’s deputies. According to the hunters, officials told them they’d done nothing wrong. But on Oct. 4, a deputy greeted them in camp with criminal trespass citations that carried up to six months in jail and a penalty of up to $750. The hunters never actually set foot on private land; they used a stepladder to hopscotch over the corners. But in doing so, they violated the airspace above the land, which belongs to the landowner. The case, now pending in Carbon County Circuit Court, sheds light on what’s called “corner crossing,” traveling between public land parcels where the corners touch. The verdict could clarify if, and how, the public can access millions of acres of public land. A 2018 report from the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and the map app company onX found 2.28 million acres of federal and state land in Wyoming are inaccessible due to checkerboarding — effectively turning some public lands into an extension of surrounding landowners’ private backyards. Like other Western states, Wyoming has no statute explicitly allowing or prohibiting corner crossing. Opponents say it’s a problem because even if the land isn’t physically impacted, invading its airspace erodes private property rights. Phone calls to the ranch, owned by wealthy businessman Fred Eshelman, weren’t returned. A 2004 Wyoming attorney general’s opinion states that while corner crossing doesn’t violate the state’s hunting laws, it “may still be a criminal trespass” — something game wardens lack the authority to enforce and must refer to the local sheriff or county attorney. “This is a murky legal area, due in part to the failure of Congress to ensure access to landlocked federal public lands.” It’s messy elsewhere, too: Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife officers won’t cite people for corner crossing, but attorneys general in Utah and Colorado have informed their state wildlife agencies that it’s illegal. “This is a murky legal area, due in part to the failure of Congress to ensure access to landlocked federal public lands,” said Martin Nie, a professor of natural resource policy at the University of Montana. While this case involves hunters, anyone wanting to access public land — whether for climbing, hiking, foraging or bird watching — has an interest in the outcome. A hunter’s attorney filed a motion to dismiss the charges in January, arguing that federal law prohibits people from preventing free passage through public lands. A jury trial is currently scheduled for April. If they’re found guilty, the men could appeal the decision to the Wyoming Supreme Court, but even then, any ruling would apply only to Wyoming. “The hopes of what this would resolve might be overblown,” said Joel Webster, vice president of western conservation for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. “And, in fact, it could make it harder to work constructively with landowners.” Then there’s the chance of political pushback. “My fear is that it inevitably lands at the Legislature, which historically hasn’t been the place to solve this,” said Jess Johnson, the Wyoming Wildlife Federation’s government affairs director. Bills to legalize corner crossing died in Wyoming in 2011, Montana in 2013 and Nevada in 2017. Johnson thinks the conversation will be more productive when tension from the October dispute dies down. “(The way) to change really hot-button policy issues that have lots of emotion around them is not by lighting a bonfire,” she said. “It’s a slow burn.” Kylie Mohr is an editorial intern for High Country News writing from Montana. Email her at [email protected] or submit a letter to the editor. See our letters to the editor policy.

Garbage article...from stem to stern.

 

[elks96]

Garbage article...from stem to stern.

Yeah that article is not very well written at all.

 

[elks96]

In the meantime, latest update:

Corner-crossing bill emerges as G&F commissioner pulls license donation - WyoFile

Proposed legislation would more broadly define hunter trespass as the Game and Fish Commission president seeks to distance himself from the fraught issue.

wyofile.com

I have already written Ember and let her know that her support to redefine trespass was a short sighted knee jerk reaction to an issue that is much bigger. I offered my willingness to speak with her in more length about the issue, and pointed out that there are over 500,000,000 people who recreate and access publics lands in this country. Begging the question why she would go against public access, when this cases clearly demonstrates that corner crossing, in todays world can be done without any negative impact on the land owners, the land it self. I will be be curious to see her response.

It is also very cowardly for them to pull the BHA Commissioner Lic. Especially given that they keep dumping money and tags to Muley Fantastic Foundation and that joke of an organization

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Yeah that article is not very well written at all.

I don't have a horse in this race & provided said article as a FYI. But I'm curious...

Why is it not "well written?" Bad spelling? Bad grammar? Or did you mean it is factually incorrect or you do not agree with what she wrote?

 

[jm77]

View attachment 68330

I don't have a horse in this race & provided said article as a FYI. But I'm curious...

Why is it not "well written?" Bad spelling? Bad grammar? Or did you mean it is factually incorrect or you do not agree with what she wrote?

The reporter chose to ignore the sources she interviewed that supported corner crossing.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

The reporter chose to ignore the sources she interviewed that supported corner crossing.

I'll need to reread the article because I don't recall her mentioning an interview with anyone.

 

[Chesterwyo]

I have already written Ember and let her know that her support to redefine trespass was a short sighted knee jerk reaction to an issue that is much bigger. I offered my willingness to speak with her in more length about the issue, and pointed out that there are over 500,000,000 people who recreate and access publics lands in this country. Begging the question why she would go against public access, when this cases clearly demonstrates that corner crossing, in todays world can be done without any negative impact on the land owners, the land it self. I will be be curious to see her response.

It is also very cowardly for them to pull the BHA Commissioner Lic. Especially given that they keep dumping money and tags to Muley Fantastic Foundation and that joke of an organization

In a country with a population of 330 million people. ???

 

[elks96]

In a country with a population of 330 million people. ???

Public lands include our national parks and as a result there are tons of people from around the world that visit and use our public lands... The number I got was from a report but seems to include totals for National Forrest, National Grasslands, Parks, BLM, etc. I am not sure how a person would get nonrepetitive data in that area. But total number of recorded visits to all National public lands was recorded as over 500,000,000 sure there is duplicates as a person camping in the national forest is also counted as entering a park. Did you have a better number I should have included?

 

[elks96]

I don't have a horse in this race & provided said article as a FYI. But I'm curious...

Why is it not "well written?" Bad spelling? Bad grammar? Or did you mean it is factually incorrect or you do not agree with what she wrote?

I feel the article failed to truly outline the issue at hand and present both side with any facts. It had lots of speculation in it, but to me it just missed the issue and missed presenting different sides. Just my opinion, but it seemed to read more like a high school newspaper article? Vague, muddy, and not really presenting both side equally, ending with a lot of what ifs...

 

[BuzzH]

I'll need to reread the article because I don't recall her mentioning an interview with anyone.

You can review whatever you want...but JM77, myself and another BHA board member were the ones she interviewed.

 

[elks96]

You can review whatever you want...but JM77, myself and another BHA board member were the ones she interviewed.

So is BHA currently working on a response to the Childish form of punishment being displayed by the Commission?

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I feel the article failed to truly outline the issue at hand and present both side with any facts. It had lots of speculation in it, but to me it just missed the issue and missed presenting different sides. Just my opinion, but it seemed to read more like a high school newspaper article? Vague, muddy, and not really presenting both side equally, ending with a lot of what ifs...

It was a newspaper article -- who, what, when & where. Since it has to do with a court case with two different sides, 'what ifs' are part of the process. One side thinks they are right, and the other side thinks the same. What it sounds like is you're accusing her of being biased.

You can review whatever you want...but JM77, myself and another BHA board member were the ones she interviewed.

Are any the quotes in it from those interviews?

 

[BuzzH]

So is BHA currently working on a response to the Childish form of punishment being displayed by the Commission?

We already did, its in the article.

WYBHA will not be held captive by the actions of any commissioner or legislator. Our stance on corner crossing and public access has not changed.

We can't control what others do, and like I said, the only thing I'm disappointed in regarding the tag, is the work for wildlife, access, etc. that won't be done now. As far as I know, WYBHA is the only group to allocate 100% of the proceeds from a commission tag to WY specific habitat, wildlife, and public access. We feel so strongly about it, that its stated in our bylaws.

 

[BuzzH]

It was a newspaper article -- who, what, when & where. Since it has to do with a court case with two different sides, 'what ifs' are part of the process. One side thinks they are right, and the other side thinks the same. What it sounds like is you're accusing her of being biased.

Are any the quotes in it from those interviews?

Read the article, if that's fair and balanced reporting I'll eat my hat.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I've read it three times already.

It appears I was correct in my first assessment; the 'writing' isn't what earned the "...not well written...' comment. If there's something that isn't true that's stated as FACT, someone will need to point it out.

 

[BuzzH]

I've read it three times already.

It appears I was correct in my first assessment; the 'writing' isn't what earned the "...not well written...' comment. If there's something that isn't true that's stated as FACT, someone will need to point it out.

Why would you ask for a quote about a case from groups that allege they want to remain neutral on the issue?

How does that make any sense?

Why, in every other piece of press surrounding this are the groups that are directly involved quoted in them?

This article missed the mark and didn't report anything that already had not been known 3-4 weeks ago.

Reinvention of the wheel.

Sorry I don't grade homework on grammar and spelling...content matters.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Why would you ask for a quote about a case from groups that allege they want to remain neutral on the issue?

How does that make any sense?

Why, in every other piece of press surrounding this are the groups that are directly involved quoted in them?

This article missed the mark and didn't report anything that already had not been known 3-4 weeks ago.

Reinvention of the wheel.

Sorry I don't grade homework on grammar and spelling...content matters.

I didn't realize any groups were involved in the actual case. I thought it was a group of hunters from MO fighting trespassing citations from the county sheriff.

I agree on grading papers. Has nothing to do with being "well written," however.

"Two and two add up to six." is well written.

Have a good week.

 

[BuzzH]

I didn't realize any groups were involved in the actual case. I thought it was a group of hunters from MO fighting trespassing citations from the county sheriff.

I agree on grading papers. Has nothing to do with being "well written," however.

"Two and two add up to six." is well written.

Have a good week.

View attachment 68340​

Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

Thanks to those at WY BHA for setting this up. Pitch in if you have ever whined about corner crossing ambiguity in WY (most of us). https://gofund.me/f4aa8b89

www.hunttalk.com

 

[jm77]

I'll need to reread the article because I don't recall her mentioning an interview with anyone.

That's right, she failed to mention the side that supports corner crossing. I'm not sure why that is so difficult to understand.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

That's right, she failed to mention the sid that supports corner crossing. I'm not sure why that is so difficult to understand.

Have a nice week.

 

[Bookhead]

That bill doesn't really define corner crossing at all

 

[SS!]

Well boys thanks to @hornkiller this thread made it to 600. I just read a post of HFF. And I liked post. I liked post 590 to live up to my promise. Likely the only like HFF has received this thread.

 

[hornkiller]

Well boys thanks to @hornkiller this thread made it to 600. I just read a post of HFF. And I liked post. I liked post 590 to live up to my promise. Likely the only like HFF has received this thread.

I try not to argue with stupid but I can't help it SS!

 

[BuzzH]

He's gone quiet now that the facts of his citation are about to go public...funny.

 

[BuzzH]

More from wyofile...

Crago: Trespass bill not a ‘corner-crossing’ measure - WyoFile

A lawmaker plans to clarify the language in a proposed bill, which he stressed Tuesday is not aimed to address controversial corner crossing.

wyofile.com

 

[grosventrehunter]

More from wyofile...

Crago: Trespass bill not a ‘corner-crossing’ measure - WyoFile

A lawmaker plans to clarify the language in a proposed bill, which he stressed Tuesday is not aimed to address controversial corner crossing.

wyofile.com

Typical lawyer talking out both sides of his mouth. He's not only a lawyer and landowner, but a politician. Why now? I wonder how many corners on his property he's trying to keep people out of.

 

[Nebsy]

Does anybody here think it is fair and just for a private landowner to use neighboring public property as their own private hunting reserve?

If corner crossing is deemed illegal, I'd like to see WGFD pass a law closing hunting seasons on public land not legally accessible by the public. If landowners want to hunt their property, that's fine; but they shouldn't get to be the only ones to hunt property that belongs to all Americans equally simply because they own deeded land across the fence.

That simply doesn't pass the smell test of reasonableness.

The whole "airspace" argument is garbage. I dare her to file charges against somebody for standing on the public side of the fence and waving their arm over the barbed wire. It's literally the same thing. IMO it's okay to vote against an elected official for prosecuting individuals for an act that seems, on it's face, to be a harmless and faultless action.

If they are convinced and precedent is established, WY hunters must file suit. Wars have been fought over taxation without representation. The management of the land is funded through taxation. Denying public access to these lands is definitely denying representation.
Original privatization of the land should also be considered. I suspect that the original sales of these properties by the government was intended to create a checkerboard specifically to maintain public land access.

 

[elks96]

More from wyofile...

Crago: Trespass bill not a ‘corner-crossing’ measure - WyoFile

A lawmaker plans to clarify the language in a proposed bill, which he stressed Tuesday is not aimed to address controversial corner crossing.

wyofile.com

The bill is directly related to corner crossing and he knows damn well it is. It is nothing else at all. There is absolutely no reason why the bill needs to change other than he wants to shut down the corner crossing debate. There is criminal trespass why do we need another trespass?

 

[dvolmer]

I don’t want to get into all of arguments and name calling. I just was wondering where this case is currently at. Any rulings? Is it still in the courts? Just wondering.

 

[grizzly]

I don’t want to get into all of arguments and name calling. I just was wondering where this case is currently at. Any rulings? Is it still in the courts? Just wondering.

No rulings. Courts move slow.

 

[marburg]

I have already written Ember and let her know that her support to redefine trespass was a short sighted knee jerk reaction to an issue that is much bigger. I offered my willingness to speak with her in more length about the issue, and pointed out that there are over 500,000,000 people who recreate and access publics lands in this country. Begging the question why she would go against public access, when this cases clearly demonstrates that corner crossing, in todays world can be done without any negative impact on the land owners, the land it self. I will be be curious to see her response.

It is also very cowardly for them to pull the BHA Commissioner Lic. Especially given that they keep dumping money and tags to Muley Fantastic Foundation and that joke of an organization

Because big ranchers run Wyoming politics and that is a fact.

 

[jm77]

Because big ranchers run Wyoming politics and that is a fact.

This is not nearly as true as it used to be. There has been a huge trend of wealthy NRs buying out traditional ranchers the last twenty+ years and those NR don't live in Wyoming. Do you see RFW or transferable hunting licenses for ranchers in Wyoming?

 

[BuzzH]

I don’t want to get into all of arguments and name calling. I just was wondering where this case is currently at. Any rulings? Is it still in the courts? Just wondering.

Court date is set for April 14.

 

[BuzzH]

For those interested, the motion to dismiss. More to follow here shortly.

 

[BuzzH]

Latest:

Corner crossers face new civil suit as prosecutor tries to add charge - WyoFile

The controversy over four bowhunters challenging criminal trespass charges intensifies as landowner Fredric Eshelman filed a civil suit seeking monetary damages from the Missouri men.

wyofile.com

 

[grizzly]

Latest:

Corner crossers face new civil suit as prosecutor tries to add charge - WyoFile

The controversy over four bowhunters challenging criminal trespass charges intensifies as landowner Fredric Eshelman filed a civil suit seeking monetary damages from the Missouri men.

wyofile.com

Both sides are pulling out all their cards on this one. It's going to be interesting to see where it goes.

 

[jm77]

Seems the County Attorney in Carbon County is squarely in the pocket of this rich landowner. I emailed her today and let her know my thoughts.

[email protected]

 

[nfh]

Wow this elk mnt guy seems like a real winner along with the county attorney. We need a parade of people to corner cross. That should get his blood boiling.

 

[grosventrehunter]

Wow this elk mnt guy seems like a real winner along with the county attorney. We need a parade of people to corner cross. That should get his blood boiling.

The best thing is to vote the CA out of office.

 

[elks96]

The best thing is to vote the CA out of office.

I have a feeling that the CA is not going to be well liked after this issue. I cant see anyone beside the wealthy landowners siding with her on this issue.

 

[Southpawshooter]

I think the county attorney wanting to add hunting trespass is telling. IMO it shows the county attorney doesn't believe they can convict the hunters of criminal trespass or she believes the motion to dismiss will be granted. Why else would you add a charge similar to the one already filed? I think they have a huge burden to prove the hunters entered the land of the owner "to hunt." There isn't even probable cause for hunting trespass unless they are speaking of a different incident.

If the WY G&F is done investigating the hunter harassment charges, with no charges being filed, their investigative report should be available to the public via FOIA.

RE: HB 103 -which wasn't considered for introduction: We as hunters better pay attention to wording in future proposed state statutes. There was a reason they wrote "or travel through." It doesn't matter what they say in a news article about their intentions. Words have meaning in statutes. Just look at the attempt to twist the word "enter".

 

[jm77]

I think the county attorney wanting to add hunting trespass is telling. IMO it shows the county attorney doesn't believe they can convict the hunters of criminal trespass or she believes the motion to dismiss will be granted. Why else would you add a charge similar to the one already filed? I think they have a huge burden to prove the hunters entered the land of the owner "to hunt." There isn't even probable cause for hunting trespass unless they are speaking of a different incident.

It's possible, but remotely, the county attorney wants to add hunting trespass so it will be defeated too.

 

[Southpawshooter]

It's possible, but remotely, the county attorney wants to add hunting trespass so it will be defeated too.

It might be a possibility. I'm sure getting call after call from the ranch gets tiring for the G&F and sheriff's office. By filing the additional charges it puts an end to it maybe? She knows they didn't "enter upon the private property". She has the ladder as evidence and eye witness testimony from law enforcement. They certainly didn't hunt the property.

 

[BuzzH]

latest:

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

 

[Homer]

Interesting…..I guess the manager is dependingon the Golden Rule…..whoever has the gold makes the rules….

 

[boomer]

Using the DA's own airspace definition, shouldn't Elk Mountain Ranch be cited for chaining public land? If the airspace above is also owned by the public, their chain is on public land. What's good for the goose...

 

[junior]

I'm guessing he didn't know about the body camera footage!?

 

[elks96]

It is more obvious than ever that this was never about trespassing but about greed and control. Hopefully the DA is getting an ear full from the voters.

 

[DH56]

Landowner has lots of land. You would think he has enough. Greed is the game with some people.

 

[Bookhead]

I especially like the part where he said they would shut down the hma if corner crossing is deemed legal. Trying to persuade them to write a ticket.

 

[Bookhead]

Using the DA's own airspace definition, shouldn't Elk Mountain Ranch be cited for chaining public land? If the airspace above is also owned by the public, their chain is on public land. What's good for the goose...View attachment 69654

That's where they are talking about elk mountain ranch breaking a federal law about fencing off public property, they say that's not fencing off public property, laughable.

 

[grizzly]

latest:

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

I love when he admits they don't want it to go to the Wyoming Supreme Court because they might find it's legal.

 

[tracker12]

I think the county attorney wanting to add hunting trespass is telling. IMO it shows the county attorney doesn't believe they can convict the hunters of criminal trespass or she believes the motion to dismiss will be granted. Why else would you add a charge similar to the one already filed? I think they have a huge burden to prove the hunters entered the land of the owner "to hunt." There isn't even probable cause for hunting trespass unless they are speaking of a different incident.

If the WY G&F is done investigating the hunter harassment charges, with no charges being filed, their investigative report should be available to the public via FOIA.

RE: HB 103 -which wasn't considered for introduction: We as hunters better pay attention to wording in future proposed state statutes. There was a reason they wrote "or travel through." It doesn't matter what they say in a news article about their intentions. Words have meaning in statutes. Just look at the attempt to twist the word "enter".

They add charges to pressure the defendants into a PLEA DEAL. Common practice. Just like the civil suit trying to place a financial burden on the accused.

Still amazes me how we continue to let Landowners prevent access to public land.

 

[Southpawshooter]

They add charges to pressure the defendants into a PLEA DEAL. Common practice. Just like the civil suit trying to place a financial burden on the accused.

Still amazes me how we continue to let Landowners prevent access to public land.

There will be no plea deal in this case. The adding of charges from an incident in 2020 was just a flex by the county attorney.

 

[WapitiBob]

Landowner has lots of land. You would think he has enough. Greed is the game with some people.

so is jealousy

 

[Savage110]

There will be no plea deal in this case. The adding of charges from an incident in 2020 was just a flex by the county attorney.

Additional charges by DA are arbitrary and capricious. It’s better that way, when the defendants don’t plead out the judge will make an example of both the landowners and prosecutors. I’ve seen this hundreds of times before. Discovery will be a ***** for the good ole boys network. The DA just cooked his own goose.

 

[Bookhead]

This case is moving to federal district court

 

[jm77]

This case is moving to federal district court

The civil case, not criminal

 

[Bookhead]

The civil case, not criminal

Depending which part of the case goes to trial first I'd think they would have a hard time with any criminal charges if corner crossing is found to be legal in federal court. I know the criminal charges are likely to go first unless they get postponed correct?

 

[jm77]

Depending which part of the case goes to trial first I'd think they would have a hard time with any criminal charges if corner crossing is found to be legal in federal court. I know the criminal charges are likely to go first unless they get postponed correct?

Correct

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

latest:

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

Douche Baggs!! At there finest !!

 

[crcountry]

How about another idea: If the landowner who owns the 2 private squares that touch 2 BLM squares, they must place a 2'x2' piece of 90 degree angle iron on each of their "corners"....make the 90 degree metal pieces touching at their corner points will give a hiker/hunter/fisherman a perfect visual land marker/survey marker that will be extremely easy to see and step over, and into, the next parcel of BLM. If these landowners are so pissed about passing through the air above their property lines, than they must perfectly mark their property lines. Heck, even spray paint them orange. If the landowner doesn't mark their corners, then they can't expect charges to be pressed...if the person is using a GPS map app, and doing everything they should be doing to not, in fact, trespass.

 

[elks96]

How about another idea: If the landowner who owns the 2 private squares that touch 2 BLM squares, they must place a 2'x2' piece of 90 degree angle iron on each of their "corners"....make the 90 degree metal pieces touching at their corner points will give a hiker/hunter/fisherman a perfect visual land marker/survey marker that will be extremely easy to see and step over, and into, the next parcel of BLM. If these landowners are so pissed about passing through the air above their property lines, than they must perfectly mark their property lines. Heck, even spray paint them orange. If the landowner doesn't mark their corners, then they can't expect charges to be pressed...if the person is using a GPS map app, and doing everything they should be doing to not, in fact, trespass.

While that seems simple, the truth is the cost would really add up for some guys. The one place I hunt in the checkerboard the guy would need to mark about 200 such corners. Marking 200 corners is a lot of time, effort and also 400 foot of iron to mark, cut in 2' lengths etc. I would however suspect that there would be some nonprofits that would volunteer to make this happen. Just might be really hard to do especially in the middle section of WY

 

[crcountry]

Thats fine...its voluntary. But, if a landowner doesn't do some form of corner marking....then they have zero case if someone is doing their 100% best job to use a device and hop the corner within a reasonable distance....like 10-20'.....but they who can really say that a person is trespassing that close to the actual line? If a hunter isn't armed with a device/onxmaps, and they're 20,30,40,50 yards off, then they're trespassing. They took zero precautions and they need to be held to account.

 

[ducksbucksandbulls]

Most fences are not on the property lines anyway
It would cost billions to refence the west.
Where they cross creek, coulees, draws ect they don't run a straight line on the p-line and for the corner post beings exactly on the corner, no way

 

[wweaver79]

Not Guilty

Hunters Who Challenged Wyoming Corner Crossing Rules Found “Not Guilty” of Criminal Trespassing

Four hunters were found not guilty of criminal trespassing after they corner crossed during a hunt in 2021. A civil suit is still pending.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[Savage110]

more news on the plight of our unlikely heros...

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/07/22/judge-denies-dismissal-in-wyoming-corner-crossing-case/

 

[LIK2HNT]

Hopefully this will get straightened out. Personally I see no wrong doing if they never stepped on the ranchers property. I hope this will open up a lot of closed off public lands.

 

[elks96]

more news on the plight of our unlikely heros...

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/07/22/judge-denies-dismissal-in-wyoming-corner-crossing-case/

Very interesting that the Judge stated they will need to look at the ranches ability to fence in such a way that would allow access....

If I understand things correctly there is no fence at all and the only thing at the corner are post that serve only one purpose... That is blocking the access to public. The pictures in the article make it very clear that the post serve no other purpose but to block public access.

Hope the hunters end up not only winning the case but also the ability to cover all cost associated with the process forced on them by a wealthy greedy landowner...

 

[nfh]

Corner crossers: Wyoming ranch owner broke federal access law

An attorney for four hunters found not guilty of trespassing has for the first time explicitly alleged the owner of the Elk Mountain Ranch violated a U.S.

oilcity.news

 

[hornkiller]

Great I can't wait for Oct im going into some good country!