Deer tags

[COarrowchucker]

Who all got screwed on their deer tags this year? not even a doe tag for the grand mesa!! cdow is a joke...

 

[WesternSky]

While cdow is not perfect they are probably the best when comes to states managing mule deer(they are a joke for elk management).

Populations needed get back to pre 2008 numbers. The mesa is prime example of an area that gave out way to many doe tags and the current population has suffered from that. Hunters like you, need to realize that you have sacrifice in the short term to benefit over the long haul.

 

[COarrowchucker]

I guess i should have specified more. I am talking about the cdow catering to all the out of state hunters first. 20% is way to much IMO!

 

[tx_packmule]

I drew a point.

 

[tailchasers]

Theres deer hunting colorado? Huh... 0 for 4 tags and we put in for some typically easy draw tags. But i am hoping the sacrafice is worth it.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[COarrowchucker]

Same here tailchasers! 0-6 tags for our group, but every year there is a group of west virginia fellas loaded with deer tags!

 

[Lawrence]

Let's see:

Resident Elk License - $46
Non-resident Elk License - $576
Resident Deer License - $31
Non-resident Deer License - $346

Fees for non-residents - 11-12.5X the fees for residents.

I'm not complaining - just stating facts.

 

[WesternSky]

Chucker
In that case disregard my statement.

And its 35% of the tags in most units. I got screwed over by NM on their nr numbers so I think its time for CO to follow suit.

 

[COarrowchucker]

Of course our crooked DOW is going to cater to you non-residents, $500 to $47!! Like WesternSky just said 35%??? Colorado needs to follow Utah or Wyoming on their non-resident tags....

 

[lostinOregon]

That's a great Idea, Wyoming gives NR's 40% of the tags. I would go for that! Do you want Colorado to sell off all of the NR's tags in a raffle for the highest bidder like Utah. Those states don't compare at all.

Rich

 

[COarrowchucker]

utah only gives out 10% to non residents, and wyoming non resident tags are near double Colorado in price, so yeah i would go for that!

 

[COarrowchucker]

Wyoming also does a hell of alot better job managing their big game, like weapon specific units. In all aspects of game and tag management wyoming is way above Colorado

 

[accubond]

What Wyoming price list are you looking at? Prices are near the same as far as I can tell. The DOW cut a lot of tags this year across the western slope so you can rest assure there are 3 non-residents feeling "screwed" for every resident that is feeling the same. As far as being more like New Mexico and Utah, be carefull what you wish for, you just might get it!

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free... it expects what never has and never will be." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[hookncook]

OK. Let's look at why they would do this. Let's look at the Grand Mesa units for example. They claim that the deer numbers are down but by their own survey that they posted in February, their numbers are up. Even the buck:doe ratios are better than they have been since 2006. Habitat has not changed for their coveted "5 year plan". We had the mildest winter since 1945. Feed was plentiful. The only thing that could be a cause for the "decline in deer population" would be predators.
Ever since Spring Bear hunts were dismissed 19 years ago the Bears have been coming out of the wood works. Even the pukes in Aspen and Vail are thinking they aren't so cute now. Bear tags should be given free with every Big game tag that is drawn. Plus coyotes should be able to be hunted anywhere at anytime until things change to where they aren't eating dogs when someone goes for a walk. Allow hunters to purchase Archery tags in urban'ish areas and make some revenue off of it. Not to mention the fact that the Dotes at the CDOW are even THINKING of re-introducing wolves is properly the most asinine thing they could be wasting money on. If there was a problem after 2008 when their was a bad winter and most of the animals had to be fed due to lack of feed, then lower the tags in 2009. If the CDOW was ran as a privately/publically, they would be bankrupt and probably brought up on charges as to what they are using funds for. Because it is the govt, we have to bend over, grab our ankles, and smile.

 

[hookncook]

>What Wyoming price list are you
>looking at? Prices are
>near the same as far
>as I can tell.
>The DOW cut a lot
>of tags this year across
>the western slope so you
>can rest assure there are
>3 non-residents feeling "screwed" for
>every resident that is feeling
>the same. As far
>as being more like New
>Mexico and Utah, be carefull
>what you wish for, you
>just might get it!
>
>"If a nation expects to be
>ignorant and free... it
>expects what never has and
>never will be." -Thomas
>Jefferson

Wyoming deer tags are $552

Wyoming Elk Tags are $1057

Depends on what you put in for.

 

[COarrowchucker]

Might as well call it ColObama DOW!

 

[COarrowchucker]

In 2008 Wyoming had a record winter kill percentage to the elk and deer population due to wolves and coyotes. the first thing they did was up all predator tags and export massive groups of wolves. COLORADO DOW said they would take 500 wolves to release i the 4 corners area!!!! Residents and ranchers soon got wind of the so called under the radar situation, and the dow promised the people they would not release wolves. since then there has been a 70% increase in what the CDOW calls COYOTE activity... COINCIDENCE???

 

[COarrowchucker]

Do we see ColObama dow uping the predator tags??? NO, instead they up the preference points on bear tags, when their population is clearly out of control. They should be giving out bear tags like candy right now.

 

[droptine47]

Drew my 52 archery buck tag with one point. Used to be able to draw it every year. Not sure where the DOW is coming up with their herd count on the mesa. You never see any deer up on the mesa anymore. There are still quite a few around Mesa/Cedaredge but not on the forest. Used to be quite a few. I grew up in the area and it definitely seems like the numbers are down. I wouldn't trust the DOW as far as I could throw them. I wouldn't read too much into their numbers.

 

[hookncook]

>Drew my 52 archery buck tag
>with one point. Used
>to be able to draw
>it every year. Not
>sure where the DOW is
>coming up with their herd
>count on the mesa.
>You never see any deer
>up on the mesa anymore.
> There are still quite
>a few around Mesa/Cedaredge but
>not on the forest.
>Used to be quite a
>few. I grew up
>in the area and it
>definitely seems like the numbers
>are down. I wouldn't
>trust the DOW as far
>as I could throw them.
> I wouldn't read too
>much into their numbers.

I am bored and raised here in GJ for 37 years. The deer and elk have fluctuated as the times change. They've went down but they go up too. Depends on the winter and predators mainly. I haven't seen a drop in the deer population on the Mesa at all. I had to wade through them this spring to get to Turkeys

 

[COarrowchucker]

Did anybody draw their Bigfoot tag?

 

[accubond]

It does dewpend on what you put in for but most people put in for the regular draw. Tag prices between Clorado and Wyoming are nill and have no relevance in the original argument?

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free... it expects what never has and never will be." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[tailchasers]

Good point hookncook. Just perhaps, just maybe this is a natural cycle. Something similar to rabbits? Don't think other animal species don't go through similar swings in life cyles. Look at the whitetail deer herds of North Dakota/eastern Montana. Its just this species happens to have a large amount of followers interested in their success. Me one of them.

Go back and look at tag numbers, harvest info, and herd counts from 2006-2007 and you'll see a difference. Throughout western Colorado what similarities have happened since then compared to today.

07-08 winter with major amounts of snow covering significant protions of the western rockies and western colorado.

08 summer seemed normal for the most part but run off was longer and more than normal and there was a significant amount of snow in the typical fawning grounds and up into the higher country making fawning grounds less than optimal. Large amounts of snow never even melted. Many of the does were in such poor condition they aborted, adsorbed, or stilled borned the fawns in the spring.

08-09 winter similar as 07-08 with significant snow fall again across large expanses of the western rockies but also coupled with an extended cold spell in december to february.

spring into summer of 09 cooler than normal with above average rainfall in the fawning grounds and the normal summer range food source was poor forcing bears to feed at lower elevations. The tough winter one again put the does into such poor condition they aborted, adsorbed, or stilled borned the fawns.

09-10 winter not near as much snow as previous years in colorado but this time the states north of colorado get hammered again wiht big snow from wyoming to nevada and from utah to Alberta.

10 Spring/summer was wet in Colorado and deer north and west of Colorado went through a tough winter yielding poor fawning and fawn survival again.

10-11 winter, not near as much snow but bitter bitter cold here in Colorado. Again Wyoming and utah get hit again with good amounts of snow along with bitter cold leading to more winter kill.

Spring and summer of 2011 one of the wettest periods on record. Cold and wet spring makes fawn survival tough again but fawn survival was the best it has been in recent years in western colorado but wyoming, idaho, portions of montana, north dakota, utah don't fair as well with poor fawn survival again.

11-12 winter one of the driest winters on record with minimal snow fall

and here we are today with the spring of 2012 drier than a popcorn fart looking at a drought. Don't have a report on fawn survival but I am speculating it is better than 2011

Not only during this time were there several mulie die offs but also antelope and elk die offs too. The elk and antelope just seem to be able to recover a bit quicker and are just a tad tougher then the mule deer not being affected as severely.

Their numbers will return we just need to be patient these cmpounding issues are tough on the wildlife.

Thats my 2 cents...


"Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway."

 

[hookncook]

Tag prices
>between Clorado and Wyoming are
>nill and have no relevance
>in the original argument?


I agree to an extent. They are two totally different entities. However, I believe the point that COarrowchucker was trying to make is that the CDOW, or whatever they are being called these days, is marketing more towards the out of staters because they are paying 10 times more than residents are. Which is fine, I completely understand why, but why are they getting licenses more than the residents.

It is cyclical but the way things are handled need to be handled in other ways. Obviously the current plan is not working. Who would put the Muzzleloaders ending one week before the Archery hunters?

 

[chasendeer]

Really Wyoming does a piss poor job on deer managment. With the resident general tag not having a quota.
Jay

 

[accubond]

I guess I missed the scenario where there were more non-residents receiving tags than residents? If that is truly the case in any unit or season then I agree with you that the system is broken. Every western state that truly cares about their mule deer herds should be keeping a close eye on Nevada as (to the best of my knowledge) they are the only state with a growing herd. I'm sorry a few of you guys didn't draw your tags and a non-resident did but differing demands in any unit are going to be different for residents and non-residents. I just think the argument originally made is a little weak and doesn't factor all the variables involved. Colorado is a premier mule deer state and I think the DOW is proactive enough to get this thing back to where they were.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free... it expects what never has and never will be." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[DirtyTough]

As a non res I think Colorado is one of the best managed states when it comes to deer. Also, to say non res draw more tags then res is ignorance plain and simple.

 

[Cohntr62]

>As a non res I think
>Colorado is one of the
>best managed states when it
>comes to deer. Also, to
>say non res draw more
>tags then res is ignorance
>plain and simple.


I totally agree. And yes, it is getting harder every year to draw a tag in Co. I know an older fellow who had made the trip to hunt in Co. for over 50 years in a row, until 2011. He and his son failed to draw a tag. Hunting every year is a thing of the past in many units that guys not too long ago were able to draw with their 2nd choice. We saw a ton of fawns in 2011, so I'm hopeful about the deer population.

 

[BeanMan]

Just remember those tag numbers are what's available AFTER the 15% (20% in the near future) that Landowners get off the top.

Also, why give out doe tags at all if numbers need to recover? I hunt coyotes year round, anytime and almost anyplace. If bears actually tasted good I would hunt them too.

 

[accubond]

I agree, with herds still trying to rebound why would they be taking does anywhere? I would think they would prioritize target population before they worried about buck to doe ratios? Regardless of resdiency, we are all going to feel the pain of lower deer numbers and greedy land owners.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free... it expects what never has and never will be." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[Whiterock]

As a non resident from Michigan,I have not heard of anyone drawing a deer tag yet.For me,I did not apply this year.

 

[BeanMan]

I drew with 0 points!