B
bugbuilder
Guest
From what I can see on the expo web site there was 206,506 expo hunt aplications filed. That equates to $1,032,530.
Does anyone know where this money goes?
Does anyone know where this money goes?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,798
Check the Thickness of PEAYDAY'S Back Pocket about now!
RAZZIN Ya PEAYDAY!
Wished I had been as Smart as PEAYDAY!
And by the way PEAYDAY!
You Ain't had your Tail Chewed for a while!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
RAZZIN Ya PEAYDAY!
Wished I had been as Smart as PEAYDAY!
And by the way PEAYDAY!
You Ain't had your Tail Chewed for a while!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
dryflyelk
Active Member
- Messages
- 842
>From what I can see on
>the expo web site there
>was 206,506 expo hunt aplications
>filed. That equates to $1,032,530.
>
>
>Does anyone know where this money
>goes?
And that's not including booth fees, concessions, and all the other revenue they pull in through the expo.
And to answer your question? Nope. Nobody knows. And nobody tracks it. If you want to see how much it's done, though, Don would be happy to take you on a three hour tour.
Vi Et Armis Invictus Maneo
>the expo web site there
>was 206,506 expo hunt aplications
>filed. That equates to $1,032,530.
>
>
>Does anyone know where this money
>goes?
And that's not including booth fees, concessions, and all the other revenue they pull in through the expo.
And to answer your question? Nope. Nobody knows. And nobody tracks it. If you want to see how much it's done, though, Don would be happy to take you on a three hour tour.
Vi Et Armis Invictus Maneo
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,122
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 02:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 02:03?PM (MST)
>From what I can see on
>the expo web site there
>was 206,506 expo hunt aplications
>filed. That equates to $1,032,530.
>
>
>Does anyone know where this money
>goes?
Currently, this money goes directly to the EXPO promoters, MDF and SFW for their own use with no strings attached and no DWR audit.
However, per United Wildlife Cooperative's proposal to the Wildlife Board, there are a series of meetings going on or scheduled with UWC, MDF, SFW and DWR prior to the renewal of the EXPO contract in 2016 to discuss/negotiate a mandate to treat this money similar to the Conservation (auctioned) Permit Program funds. This would mean that $309,759 (30%) would go directly to DWR, while $619,518 (60%) would be retained by MDF and/or SFW in a separate account to be used ONLY for DWR approved or initiated projects, and MDF/SFW would keep $103,253 (10%) for their own use. Whether or not that happens isn't known, but all parties have been put on notice that people are paying attention!
>From what I can see on
>the expo web site there
>was 206,506 expo hunt aplications
>filed. That equates to $1,032,530.
>
>
>Does anyone know where this money
>goes?
Currently, this money goes directly to the EXPO promoters, MDF and SFW for their own use with no strings attached and no DWR audit.
However, per United Wildlife Cooperative's proposal to the Wildlife Board, there are a series of meetings going on or scheduled with UWC, MDF, SFW and DWR prior to the renewal of the EXPO contract in 2016 to discuss/negotiate a mandate to treat this money similar to the Conservation (auctioned) Permit Program funds. This would mean that $309,759 (30%) would go directly to DWR, while $619,518 (60%) would be retained by MDF and/or SFW in a separate account to be used ONLY for DWR approved or initiated projects, and MDF/SFW would keep $103,253 (10%) for their own use. Whether or not that happens isn't known, but all parties have been put on notice that people are paying attention!
B
bugbuilder
Guest
Reading between the lines I take it the UDWR donates these tags. This sucks!!! The people (all utah residents) own the animals and the people are getting no return.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,476
The Expo is privately owned---
The participants----'Con' Org's $FW and MDF are the For Wildlife bull $hit.
Wasn't Miles M: the big $hot of MDF, a poor state paid employee in the UDWR before he was Reborn and wealthy?
Robb
The participants----'Con' Org's $FW and MDF are the For Wildlife bull $hit.
Wasn't Miles M: the big $hot of MDF, a poor state paid employee in the UDWR before he was Reborn and wealthy?
Robb
TheOneRidgeRunner
Active Member
- Messages
- 303
Yes the perfect question???
They say they have "donated" 9 million dollars to the state.
So in the 8 plus years of doing this where has all that money gone??
Add it up: tag auctions, banquets, expo revenu-booths and such entrance fees, expo apps, raffels, dinners, you name it.
Multi million dollars each year, yet they have "donated" only 9 million for Utahs wildlife.
Hmmm Where does the money go????
Oh I thought it was for wildlife to begin with but THEY.... donate the MONEY to us. And its our money!! Step up Utah and take THEM down.
They say they have "donated" 9 million dollars to the state.
So in the 8 plus years of doing this where has all that money gone??
Add it up: tag auctions, banquets, expo revenu-booths and such entrance fees, expo apps, raffels, dinners, you name it.
Multi million dollars each year, yet they have "donated" only 9 million for Utahs wildlife.
Hmmm Where does the money go????
Oh I thought it was for wildlife to begin with but THEY.... donate the MONEY to us. And its our money!! Step up Utah and take THEM down.
I think that it is interesting how and what people think. First of all the 200 tags that you can put in for are tags that the State legislators put there, it reads up to 200 tags to be used. They are a drawing card to bring people to the state to help with the economy. True it also helps as a drawing card for the expo but the main reason was to bring in money to the state. I think that they announced that it should bring in $10 million into the area this year.
The expo is a private operation and has nothing to do with the state. What SFW and MDF does with the money is their problem. That is theirs to do with as they please. As for money raised, the 200 tags are run separate and it costs money to do everything involved with the tags. Those that applied for the tags know about the people there who work to validate the tags and do the paper work etc. There is still advertisement fees etc. That $5 is not all profit as you seem to believe.
The expo is a private operation and has nothing to do with the state. What SFW and MDF does with the money is their problem. That is theirs to do with as they please. As for money raised, the 200 tags are run separate and it costs money to do everything involved with the tags. Those that applied for the tags know about the people there who work to validate the tags and do the paper work etc. There is still advertisement fees etc. That $5 is not all profit as you seem to believe.
deerslayer88
Active Member
- Messages
- 970
They have what 10 to 12 people who process the tags, that get paid say 10 a hour. which is 120 per person per day, or 1440 per day for all processors, for the entire expo its 5800 for their processors, and that is if they even get paid. A good business model you need at least a 40% margin FYI. I can guarantee they have closer to 60% margins and then they give back 40% to say hey we gave something.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-14 AT 06:26PM (MST)[p]That post Birdman put up is about the worst one I've ever seen in trying to defend his group! That Expo doesn't draw enough people outside of Utah to do squat from what all the residents that go to it say! Here's a question for you Birdman, since you're always the SFW expert on all the threads. How many NRs buy chances and validate at the Expo like you have to in order to affect the economy so much that it brings in $10 million?
When i go to the show, i fly in that morning and fly out that afternoon.
$200 plane ticket
$10 lunch
$35 taxi fees
$245 total not exactly a whole lot towards the $10 million and really only 45 of it directly in SLC...
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
$200 plane ticket
$10 lunch
$35 taxi fees
$245 total not exactly a whole lot towards the $10 million and really only 45 of it directly in SLC...
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
Daxter
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,426
Mntnman, save the $35 by riding the free Mormon Temple Square shuttle and then walk a couple blocks to the Salt Palace. You might have to take a Book of Mormon from some nice old couple driving the van, but hey your saving 7 expo applications!
Dax
There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.
Dax
There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.
TOPGUN, Not got the time to go threw all the numbers and do not know if I can even get that number but of the 200 tags that were drawn for 28 winners were non residents. Now with the odds of drawing that tag I would say that is I pretty good percentage or there was a lot of non residents putting in. There were people there from almost all the states.
Deerslayer88, I believe that they had 25 people working in the validation. There were several that worked strictly on keeping the computers up and running and making sure that the process went smooth. As far as I know there may have been one volunteer but I am not even sure he was. The rest were paid employees for the expo.
TheOneRidgeRunner
Active Member
- Messages
- 303
Birdman, heres what I see. The top non-resident tag only had 888 people apply and that was for desert bighorn.
Lets say some out of state hunters didn't apply for those hunts, you still didn't bring in large amounts of money from non residents execpt maybe those here to sell their guide services. And they applied for those hunts as well. So to say people came here in large numbers just to apply for the hunts is a smoke screen.
The money i've seen spent helped more cwmu properties than it did public lands and public interests.
Utahs dwr could implement a draw for those 200 grab tags and all the other banquet tags and bring in more money than what will be "donated" to the state.
Lets say some out of state hunters didn't apply for those hunts, you still didn't bring in large amounts of money from non residents execpt maybe those here to sell their guide services. And they applied for those hunts as well. So to say people came here in large numbers just to apply for the hunts is a smoke screen.
The money i've seen spent helped more cwmu properties than it did public lands and public interests.
Utahs dwr could implement a draw for those 200 grab tags and all the other banquet tags and bring in more money than what will be "donated" to the state.
Oneridge, 888 people when applying for rooms etc is a good some. The State comes up with the figures of $10 million dollars, not me. They see first hand and know how it all works. All I did was give some figures. I have more to do with my time than take the abuse you guys love to dish out. I am not a spokesman for SFW. I am on my own when it comes to gather the information. Why do I do it? To know for myself what goes on and how it all works. I may not agree on all that happens, but I do know what goes on and how it all works. I do it again for my personal knowledge. No one on MM has to believe me. I do not care if they do or don't. I do know that there are a lot of people on here that have no idea what is going on in this state with hunting. They think that they do but they do not. Much money is being spent that is raised by SFW to help the hunters in Utah. You can see from Lumpy about the pheasants. They are not cheap. They have done this last year and will again for years to come. They have purchased property and also trust lands. What do they do with these lands? They open them up to the public. Not to just their own members but to all that want to use them. The money gets spent many ways no one knows about. But then some of you know all. I will not be bashed on here for what I know to be fact. So if you want to have a decent conversation that is fine. If you want to try to belittle, then I have better things to do. Again not a spokes person for anyone but myself on what I have learned and been involved in.
Outdoors
Member
- Messages
- 11
Hundreds of the NR are college kids at local universities. Add in booth personnel and you have to admit not many NR guests rolling in to SLC to live it up large. Expos is HUGE failure as an economic engine for Utah. A perfect example of welfare socialism where the state takes over 200 wildlife tags and hands to SFW. Hope they give SFW food stamps to help with convention food. Obama and SFW are birds of a feather socialists.
For what it's worth. There 4 of us. We fly in for 2 days. So we have hotel , meals, and cab to and from airport. We each spent 340 on expo ticket. Then our bar tab at night was over 400 one night and close to it the next. We go out with a few friends we meet up with and have a good time. Even met a mm celebrity yelum at the show. He's a good guy. I just figure we put in for your tags should give something back in return.
>Mntnman, save the $35 by riding
>the free Mormon Temple Square
>shuttle and then walk a
>couple blocks to the Salt
>Palace. You might have to
>take a Book of Mormon
>from some nice old couple
>driving the van, but hey
>your saving 7 expo applications!
>
>
>Dax
>
>There is no such thing as
>a sure thing in trophy
>mule deer hunting.
Nice! will do that next time! Thanks
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
>the free Mormon Temple Square
>shuttle and then walk a
>couple blocks to the Salt
>Palace. You might have to
>take a Book of Mormon
>from some nice old couple
>driving the van, but hey
>your saving 7 expo applications!
>
>
>Dax
>
>There is no such thing as
>a sure thing in trophy
>mule deer hunting.
Nice! will do that next time! Thanks
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
>Hundreds of the NR are college
>kids at local universities. Add
>in booth personnel and you
>have to admit not many
>NR guests rolling in to
>SLC to live it up
>large. Expos is HUGE failure
>as an economic engine for
>Utah. A perfect example of
>welfare socialism where the state
>takes over 200 wildlife tags
>and hands to SFW. Hope
>they give SFW food stamps
>to help with convention food.
>Obama and SFW are birds
>of a feather socialists.
***It's funny how money is talked about, but there is never anything to back it up as to a real accounting of it whenever the SFW discussion takes place. Birdman says the EXPO is estimated to bring in $10,000,000 to the economy from NR participation. Let's say that a guy comes in from outstate and stays 2 nights in a nice motel room, buys his meals and drinks, and spends a few bucks on gear. Let's say that guy is worth $2K to the economy while there, which is probably a stretch. Now lets divide that 10 million by $2K and you come up with 5000 people that would have had to spend that much on average to make that 10 million. Are 5000 nonresidents attending that EXPO?
>kids at local universities. Add
>in booth personnel and you
>have to admit not many
>NR guests rolling in to
>SLC to live it up
>large. Expos is HUGE failure
>as an economic engine for
>Utah. A perfect example of
>welfare socialism where the state
>takes over 200 wildlife tags
>and hands to SFW. Hope
>they give SFW food stamps
>to help with convention food.
>Obama and SFW are birds
>of a feather socialists.
***It's funny how money is talked about, but there is never anything to back it up as to a real accounting of it whenever the SFW discussion takes place. Birdman says the EXPO is estimated to bring in $10,000,000 to the economy from NR participation. Let's say that a guy comes in from outstate and stays 2 nights in a nice motel room, buys his meals and drinks, and spends a few bucks on gear. Let's say that guy is worth $2K to the economy while there, which is probably a stretch. Now lets divide that 10 million by $2K and you come up with 5000 people that would have had to spend that much on average to make that 10 million. Are 5000 nonresidents attending that EXPO?
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,648
>I think that it is interesting
>how and what people think.
> First of all the
>200 tags that you can
>put in for are tags
>that the State legislators put
>there, it reads up to
>200 tags to be used.
>They are a drawing card
>to bring people to the
>state to help with the
>economy. True it also
>helps as a drawing card
>for the expo but the
>main reason was to bring
>in money to the state.
> I think that they
>announced that it should bring
>in $10 million into the
>area this year.
> The expo
>is a private operation and
>has nothing to do with
>the state. What SFW
>and MDF does with the
>money is their problem.
>That is theirs to do
>with as they please.
>As for money raised, the
>200 tags are run separate
>and it costs money to
>do everything involved with the
>tags. Those that applied
>for the tags know about
>the people there who work
>to validate the tags and
>do the paper work etc.
> There is still advertisement
>fees etc. That $5
>is not all profit as
>you seem to believe.
Birdman, THANK YOU. You are the most honest guy that defends SFW. While the SFW PR maching spins, Birdman was dead straight with us about SFW and their finances. THEIR MONEY(THAT WE GAVE THEM)IS THEIRS TO DO WITH AS THEY PLEASE. Look, you don't have to like it, or agree, but BIRDMAN just told us all what we already knew but SFW won't acknowledge, you gave them millions they will do with it what they please! Thanks man for your candor!
As for the rest of what he is saying it goes like this.
You give SFW 200 welfare tags. Salt Lake throws in some tax free kickers to hold the expo in SL. The DWR throws in a bunch of employees to help with the lotto. The hotel/restaraunt assoc. I am sure donates. The vendors all pay to be there. The DWR advertises for it. SFW COLLECTS ALL THE MONEY, now where does it go? F- OFF!! "It is theirs to do with as they please"
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>how and what people think.
> First of all the
>200 tags that you can
>put in for are tags
>that the State legislators put
>there, it reads up to
>200 tags to be used.
>They are a drawing card
>to bring people to the
>state to help with the
>economy. True it also
>helps as a drawing card
>for the expo but the
>main reason was to bring
>in money to the state.
> I think that they
>announced that it should bring
>in $10 million into the
>area this year.
> The expo
>is a private operation and
>has nothing to do with
>the state. What SFW
>and MDF does with the
>money is their problem.
>That is theirs to do
>with as they please.
>As for money raised, the
>200 tags are run separate
>and it costs money to
>do everything involved with the
>tags. Those that applied
>for the tags know about
>the people there who work
>to validate the tags and
>do the paper work etc.
> There is still advertisement
>fees etc. That $5
>is not all profit as
>you seem to believe.
Birdman, THANK YOU. You are the most honest guy that defends SFW. While the SFW PR maching spins, Birdman was dead straight with us about SFW and their finances. THEIR MONEY(THAT WE GAVE THEM)IS THEIRS TO DO WITH AS THEY PLEASE. Look, you don't have to like it, or agree, but BIRDMAN just told us all what we already knew but SFW won't acknowledge, you gave them millions they will do with it what they please! Thanks man for your candor!
As for the rest of what he is saying it goes like this.
You give SFW 200 welfare tags. Salt Lake throws in some tax free kickers to hold the expo in SL. The DWR throws in a bunch of employees to help with the lotto. The hotel/restaraunt assoc. I am sure donates. The vendors all pay to be there. The DWR advertises for it. SFW COLLECTS ALL THE MONEY, now where does it go? F- OFF!! "It is theirs to do with as they please"
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
TOPGUN, just told you what the State says. That figure does not come from SFW or MDF. It comes from the State. Also take that million plus and divide it by two. SFW does not get but half of it. What MDF does with their half no one seems to care. It is just a war against SFW. Interesting.
llamapacker
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,072
I respect Birdman for sharing his knowledge of this event. I've seen the press release about the amount of money (economic development) the expo brings in. Those press releases are written by SFW / MDF, but use formulas blessed by the state. I've also worked with the state enough to know there is plenty of smoke and mirrors in those figures. Nobody is really supposed to look to closely at those numbers, whether it is $10M, $9M, or some other figure the state does see some increased (a little) tourism.
I've always believed a large percentage of this would occur if an expo was held, even without the tags. I know the organizers claim they could never hold a profitable expo without the tag draw. It is a very hard point to argue honestly as no one knows how the expo would fare without the tags.
The reality is a lot of sportsmen spend a lot of money at the Hunt Expo, and a very small portion of it goes directly to conservation. The same could be said about the ISE show in March. We spend a lot of money there, but the show is run by a for profit company.
I enjoy both the Hunt Expo and the ISE show. They are different, but both entertaining. I don't go to the hunt expo or ISE thinking my money is going to support conservation. I know the ISE promoters and SFW/MDF will be lining their pockets with my fees. Not a whole lot different that going to a Jazz game - I know the LHM group will get my money.
I do believe the state would get a better return on their 200 tags if they were sold outside the Hunt Expo. The Hunt Expo isn't the only group in the country that has found a way to take public assets and turn it into corporate profit. Doesn't mean I like it, and I sure don't like the continual PR telling me my money is going to conservation when only pennies on the dollar end up toward that purpose. Even saying that, I like attending the expo. Go figure.
When I want to support conservation, I make donations to groups like RMEF, or B+C, and do that outside the Hunt expo.
Bill
I've always believed a large percentage of this would occur if an expo was held, even without the tags. I know the organizers claim they could never hold a profitable expo without the tag draw. It is a very hard point to argue honestly as no one knows how the expo would fare without the tags.
The reality is a lot of sportsmen spend a lot of money at the Hunt Expo, and a very small portion of it goes directly to conservation. The same could be said about the ISE show in March. We spend a lot of money there, but the show is run by a for profit company.
I enjoy both the Hunt Expo and the ISE show. They are different, but both entertaining. I don't go to the hunt expo or ISE thinking my money is going to support conservation. I know the ISE promoters and SFW/MDF will be lining their pockets with my fees. Not a whole lot different that going to a Jazz game - I know the LHM group will get my money.
I do believe the state would get a better return on their 200 tags if they were sold outside the Hunt Expo. The Hunt Expo isn't the only group in the country that has found a way to take public assets and turn it into corporate profit. Doesn't mean I like it, and I sure don't like the continual PR telling me my money is going to conservation when only pennies on the dollar end up toward that purpose. Even saying that, I like attending the expo. Go figure.
When I want to support conservation, I make donations to groups like RMEF, or B+C, and do that outside the Hunt expo.
Bill
