How Did RACS vote?

cantkillathing

Very Active Member
Messages
1,475
How have the RACS been voting on the conservation permit rule. I wasn't able to make it to the SE RAC.

I hope that it doesnt change and we stick to the 5% rule.
 
They need to stick to the 5% rule, but they are not. Some examples are the moose tags. Some one before posted that they get way more than the 5% of moose tags. But its because its a 3 year aggreement. But the animals and thing happen every year. So they need to be able o adjust the #'s each year.

I HOPE THEY DONT GO TO THE 10%. THAT WILL SUCK MORE THAN EVER IF IT DOES!
 
Utah already gives out 300+ conservation permits--more than all other western states combined. If anything, we need to substantially reduce the number of permits that are sold to the highest bidder.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
I think majority of people are against it, just wondering if anyone knew how the southern and southeastern RACs voted, hopefully everyone can still email the other RACS and make sure this doesn't pass.
 
>Utah already gives out 300+ conservation
>permits--more than all other western
>states combined. If anything,
>we need to substantially reduce
>the number of permits that
>are sold to the highest
>bidder.
>
>Hawkeye
>
>Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
>Winchester Apex .50 Cal
>Mathews Drenalin LD

+1!


Tallbuck1
 
The southern rac audio says they voted to approve of the conservation permit rule. The division's presentation did not touch much on the fact that this change will increase the allowed percentages. The guy said once a unit gets 5 sheep tags then one of those can be a conservation permit. Isn't 1 of 5 equal to 20 percent? But earlier he said the rule gives only 10 percent. What kind of genius thinks 1 in 5 is really 1 in 10? Get ready to give up more of your Utah opportunity to be sold at the auction block.
 
Alright it took me a few minutes to figure out the angle these guys are working.

Our elk units are going to be at age objective here in a couple of years meaning that public permits are going to start to decrease.
Going by the ratio's they've set their first permit will be after to 10th public permit. So they have basically gone from 5% to almost 10%. They have the second wealth tag coming in at 30 instead of 40.

They've just raised from 5% to compensate for the reduction in public permits.




2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
LAST EDITED ON May-10-12 AT 08:37PM (MST)[p]I thought they passed to give up to 10% of the tags to public hunters or 8 whichever is less.



respect my authorita
 
Looks like they are voting to give 20 percent of sheep tags to the conservation auctions. The southeast rac voted for the change also. It looks like no one wants to fight this change.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-10-12 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]Andy I'm almost 100% sure the old rule read 5% for the permits.
I may be wrong but like I said I'm pretty sure. Now the Org's are
Asking for 10% or a max of 8 tags for sheep. They are also asking
To take more than 5% of the non OIL species.

Where does it end?? I really hope I'm wrong about the old rule
Being 5%.

EDIT: Found the rule.
(a) a maximum of 10% of the total permits, assigned to a hunt area or combination of hunt areas, for Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep and desert bighorn sheep;
(b) a maximum of 5% of the permits or eight permits, whichever is less, for any unit or hunt area for the remaining conservation permit species.

The proposal at the RACS ask's for:
3. Include tables that define the potential number of multi-year conservation permits available based on the number of public permits available. For example: 11-30 public permits = 1 conservation permit, 31-50 public permits = 2 conservation permits, 51-70 public permits = 3 conservation permits, 71-90 permits = 4 conservation permits, 91-110 public permits = 5 conservation permits, 111-130 = 6 conservation permits, 131-150 public permits = 7 conservation permits and >150 public permits = 8 conservation permits.

So we'll finally get back to the 5% allocation once a unit has 160 public permits.



2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
The DWR uses the rule of rounding up. I guess that means that 5 tags are the same as 10. They can change the tag numbers every year if they want. There was talk at the BGB meeting saying that they are looking that the moose situation and it will be taken care of. There was no oposition to cutting the moose tags.
 
Maybe we need to start gathering signatues and getting a vote on the 2013 ballet to make a law that states no more than 1 Con Org tag per unit/species.....with the same for 1 Raffle tag per unit/species for the general public--ressy--non-ressy.

And end the Scam Expo tags all together.

Robb
 
>Maybe we need to start gathering
>signatues and getting a vote
>on the 2013 ballet to
>make a law that states
>no more than 1 Con
>Org tag per unit/species.....with the
>same for 1 Raffle tag
>per unit/species for the general
>public--ressy--non-ressy.
>
>And end the Scam Expo tags
>all together.
>
>Robb


+1
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-12 AT 08:49AM (MST)[p]From what I have been told as of this morning. It is not proposed to have more than 5% of total conservation permits offered.

If there are facts other wise, please post them.

If the 5% conservation permit program went away. The DWR would likly have to increase the allocation of Non resident permits to 20% to make up the loss in revenue generated from the conservation permit program. Which would mean fewer permits available for residents to draw.

There has been a problem with offering more than 5% of Moose permits. Changes are happening to prevent this from happening from what I have been told.

If some RAC member or Amy from the DWR would like to validate or clarify these comments that would be great.
 
50 see post #9. I copied it straight from the RAC Packet.
If they were to stay with the 5 percent rule they shouldn't get
a Wealth Tag until a unit reaches 20 public permits. They want one at 11. The second Wealth Tag should not be available until a unit hits 40 public permits. They want one at 31. So the lower end is set a 9% and the second (31) is around 7.5%. My math says it ain't 5%.




2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
And 1 for every 5 is equal to 20 percent on the sheep side. That looks like more than 10 percent to me.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-12 AT 10:07AM (MST)[p]Greg-

After reviewing the proposed revisions, I see several potential problems. I have attached a link to a redlined version of the statute the shows the proposed language: http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/info/2012-05_packet.pdf

My concerns are as follows:

1. The proposed language claims to cap the number of tags at 10% for sheep (or 8 permits, whichever is less) and 5% for other species (or 8 permits, whichever is less). However, if you look at the ratios used to determine the permit numbers, the percentages could actually end up being much higher. For instance, once you have 5 sheep tags on a unit, then the DWR allocates 1 conservation permit. That equates to 20% of the sheep tags being sold to the highest bidder. Same thing with other species, once you have 11 permits on a unit, the DWR allocates 1 conservation permit. That equates to 9% of the permits being sold to the highest bidder. Thus, the language of the statute is inconsistent and confusing. Given past experience, this inconsistency will be construed in a manner to allocate as many conservation permits as possible.

2. Why is the cap for sheep permits 10% and all other species 5%? Why should we agree to set aside one out of every ten tags for the rich? This ratio is simply too high.

3. The revised statute states that the number of conservation permits "MAY be reduced for once in a lifetime conservation permit species" if the number of public permits declines during the time period that multi-year permits are awarded. I am happy that they are attempting to address this glaring problem with the current version of the conservation permit rule. However, why is the language of the statute permissive rather than mandatory ("may")? Why doesn't it read "SHALL be reduced"? If the general public experiences a reduction in tags due to a decrease in herd numbers then the conservation organizations should experience a corresponding decrease. I have no faith that the DWR, the Wildlife Board or the conservation groups will voluntarily reduce the number of conservation permits unless they are required to do so.

4. Why is the language that provides for a potential reduction in conservation permits limited to once-in-a-lifetime species? If the general public experience a reduction in limited entry tags (deer, elk, pronghorn, etc.) due to decreased herd numbers then the conservation organizations should experience a corresponding decrease. There should not be preferential treatment for the conservation groups and the wealthy.

5. Has anyone (the DWR, the Wildlife Board or the conservation groups) done an analysis based upon last year's permit numbers to see what effect these proposed revisions would have on conservation permit numbers? Does the number of permits increase, decrease or stay the same?

6. Why not do away with multi-year permits and simply have the Wildlife Board allocate permits on a year-by-year basis? Let me guess--the conservation groups need to know years in advance how many tags they will have available to sell at their banquets. Come on! The headaches that these multi-year permits have created are not worth any alleged benefit resulting therefrom.

7. Greg argued in his post that if we substantially reduced or did away with the conservation permit program then the DWR would have to increase the number of nonresident permits to make up for the revenue decrease. There are a couple of problems with this argument. First, 90% of the revenue from these permits is used for conservation projects and the conservation organization is allowed to keep the remaining 10% for overhead, salaries, beer, peanuts, etc. Therefore, the money generated from these permits is not part of the DWR's general budget. Thus, a decrease in conservation permits may result in fewer conservation projects but it would not hamper the DWR unless the DWR attempted to fund the same number of projects out of their existing budget. Second, if had to make a choice, I would prefer see an increase in NR permits rather than having 350 tags being sold to the highest bidder. I would rather have some more of my NR friends who have been waiting patiently in line draw a tag then the same big wigs that jump to the front of the line year after year. After all, we are all NR's in every state except one. If we can generate the same revenue by modestly increasing the NR tag allocation and doing away with 300+ conservation permits, I say go for it!

8. Finally, Utah has set aside nearly 350 premium permits to auction to the highest bidder. There more conservation permits in Utah than all of the other western states combined. Is the hunting in Utah so much better than the surrounding states such as to justify this number of high dollar tags? I don't think so. The return on the investment for the average hunter does not justify setting aside 350+ tags a year. Why not cap the number of conservation permits at one tag per unit? I would like to see a drastic reduction in the number of conservation permits.

These are a few of the thoughts rattling around in my head after reading the revised statute. What am I missing? Perhaps Greg or someone else from these groups or the DWR can address some of these concerns.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
WW,

There should be some clarification coming. I was told it was species specific. I personally believe that up to 5% of tags generating money for habitat,transplants, and projects are a good investment so we have good hunting in the future.

Myself like many others who volunteer and help with conservation banquets are strongly opposed to more than 5% conservation permits. I hope the 5% rule doesn't change.
 
>>Maybe we need to start gathering
>>signatues and getting a vote
>>on the 2013 ballet to
>>make a law that states
>>no more than 1 Con
>>Org tag per unit/species.....with the
>>same for 1 Raffle tag
>>per unit/species for the general
>>public--ressy--non-ressy.
>>
>>And end the Scam Expo tags
>>all together.
>>
>>Robb
>
>
>+1

+2
 
Hawkeye,

I used to be on the SFW board. I don't speak for them. Someone will clarify and answer some of your questions.

My opinion.
Conservation permits up to 5% in Utah has helped wildlife and hunting now and for the future. We have more opportunity in all species except deer. There are some new plans for deer.

Utahs population is projected to increase a lot over the next 20 years. I don't have the numbers in front of me. It is too bad us sportsmen didn't plan a little better 20-30 years ago. More homes, more cars, more roads, less habitat, more predators, equals less hunting. We ALL LOVE TO HUNT. Other states can do what they want. WY,CO,AZ,MT,NV are all different. The Sportsmen and elected officials in each state should decide on how they are able to maintain or improve wildlife populations long term.

If Sportsmen see the benifits to 5% of permits making a better future, it's a win win. If they don't we have complaining. The hunters who think we will always have the same number of wildlife, without projects (many done with Conservation money and matching money)with population growth are not living in reality, and we will loose in the long run.

5% is the threshold for many Sportsmen in Utah. Some want 10 permits a year and are hoping for a miracle to have some enough to hunt in the future. My opinion.

Hawkeye, I believe we agree a lot more than we disagree.

Thanks,

Greg
 
50 You make some damn good points. Personally I see the issue this way. Once we started down the road with Wealth Tags we also started managing our herds to maximize the potential of the Wealth Tag Program. We started raising age classifications on elk and deer, a 400" bull will bring on more money that a 330" bull. The tag pimps and those that have a vested interest in maximizing dollars per wealth tag, be it at auction or a CWMU permit, pretty much have written the last few elk plans.

Now many reading this have sacrificed for almost two decades with the hope of drawing a LE Elk Permit. They will see their chances get even worse once these units get DOWN to objective and the tags become even more scarce. For these tag pimps to know what is coming and want to compensate for these permit reductions is a slap in the face to everyone that has been patiently waiting for the pie to grow big enough to have their turn at the plate. Public hunters are going to have a reduction in elk permits. Is it fair for the tag pimps to ask for a higher percentage of tags to compensate for the reduction?? They set the age classifications... They knew full well what was coming... now to come back 4 years later and demand that they get to keep their cut while everybody else gets bent over is wrong.









2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-12 AT 01:02PM (MST)[p]Greg with all due respect----

It already is the 'FUTURE' for all the sucker punches we have gotten FOR the last 17 YEARS (since the Con Org tags came into play)

We need to get this on the Ballot in 2013 and get all these 'Welfare Momma's/ OctoMom/Con Org tag$' drastically reduced.

Nothing personal at all Greg......I certainly, as many others do, respect your total belief in the current rundown/abu$ed proce$$.....change is tough some times---but we need CHANGE....


The Scam Expo tag$ gotta go too.

Robb
 
Greg-

Thanks for the response. Please ask one of your buddies that is authorized to speak on behalf of SFW and/or the other groups if they will chime in on my questions. I am sincerely trying to understand how the proposed revisions address the current problems.

I think that most sportsman would agree that a few conservation permits are okay. But how did we end up with 350? I agree that every state is different and each state should decide for itself what number of tags is appropriate. But given that we have had more conservation permits than all of the other western states combined for a number of years, shouldn't we have significantly better hunting than all of those other states?

I could support a few limited tags that raise money for key projects. But I cannot support setting aside hundreds of tags year after year. At some level, you reach a point of diminishing returns. In Utah, we past that point long ago.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
I agree 100 % with Hawkeye on this. We dont need to get rid of all of the tags, BUT, lets cut them way back. 1 tag per animal per unit. Make it alot like the premium tags and hunt all the seasons that might apply on the unit/animal. I personally think it would make each and every tag worth alot more $$$$ if there were less tags, instead of going to countless banquets and bidding on tons of tags til you get the one you want.
 
Hawkeye,

I have asked for some clarification/comments from a conservation group. We will see what happens.

You are correct we have a lot of conservation permits. We also do more projects than most westen states combined. CO has more elk, deer, and winter range. WY has a great fund in part from energy. Most other states are going down hill.

I agree there is a point of diminishing returns. I and many others believe more than 5% exceeds that diminishing returns.

I'm a plan for the future type of guy. Invest in the future. Try to make a difference for the good. Give back to the sport. Protect hunting and resources for our kids, so they can have the memories that I have had.

I wonder if we try to cut Conservation tags, we cut our investment for future projects and matching money, and more wildlife.

I don't believe we can have 3% of tags for conservation permits and raise the same amount of money. It would be nice if we could.

One question to think about if we decrease consevation permits in half, we likly would decrease projects in half unless the increased funding other ways, ie. more non res permits. You also lose matching money that is leveraged. In the long run 10-15 years down the road, especially with Utah population growth trends, permits numbers could be reduced by more than 25%. We would have more complanining then also.

Question could 2 1/2% of conservation permits now, help save 25% or more general permits 10 years from now? I'm just throwing out numbers. However, conservation permits are a good investment,and is what the DWR, conservation groups, and many sportsmen believe.

An example.
Feeding elk on the Millville face. The DWR wanted to cut the herd in half and try to get the other elk to feed at hardware ranch. The DWR planted bitter brush with sportsmen help on the face. They wanted this are to be more for deer. If you feed the elk sportsmen thought that could stop much of the competition. Plus elk have migrated to Millville for over 20 years. Some migrated past hardware to Millville. Sportsmen didn't want 150-200 elk killed, Permits numbers on the South Cache would have been reduced alot.

One or two conservation permit tag money was used to buy hay for a lot of elk. Which saved probably 15-30 permits. About One third of the elk that usually winter on the face are bulls.

A lot of sportsmen want accounting, money used wisly, and no more than 5% of permits go to the conservation permit program.

There are some people, that don't plan for the future. They don't have any life insurance. No savings, little or no retirement, and are hoping the government and SS that they have paid into will take care of them. The same principle.

We need to plan ahead, work for a better future, work together to have a better future.
My thoughts and opinion.
 
Greg, I know you put your money where your mouth is and mean well. I think we all want the same thing, we just have different ways of getting there.

I also am thinking of our hunting future, there are not enough tags left for the public... how are we going to get kids hunting under the current system? Tell them to apply and they can get a good elk tag when they are retired? This is the reality with Don Peay in charge. He openly wants 100% success on trophy animals for every hunt in Utah. That can only mean very few tags, which has given us terrible point creep. To take the few tags we have left and sell them to the few high bidders year after year to fund bigger animals so the same guy can buy them again next year does not help the kids.

You may not remember, but I was on a San Juan elk hunt with you in 2001 when I was still a kid. Unbelievable experience. I still haven't drawn a tag since then, won't for years, and once I do, I will likely be done for the rest of my life.

I kept my interest in hunting through a decade without a tag of my own, but my brothers didn't. We lost four hunters because it wasn't fun for them to hunt the terrible quality General Season with the dream of some day hunting a good unit.

SFW does not help get kids into hunting. It pushes them out.

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON May-11-12 AT 05:56PM (MST)[p]That is a nice reply Greg---

BUT...


You Con Org type$ are not even spending the yearly Con Org tag money$...

The 'leftover' goes into your OWN Con Org bank acounts --- gaining % interest that goes into your own Con Org--non-accountable PROFIT.......what happened to the non-profit for habitat and wildlife part of this $cam??


You can huff and puff all ya want about habitat and wildlife but WE all know it is about self serving PROFIT and Political gain.

Go read any $FW --- Public record tax statements.......not a freakin DIME spent on habitat nor wildlife.....

All this habitat and wilflife 'benefit' comes straight from someone else's WALLET...via the Con Org Tag$ 90/10% split mandated rule.

Plus---show a raise of hands here---how many of us nobody--not needed----no big money bid type$--- public hunters--- have HUNTED all these listed 'Golf Course Green' habitat and for wildlife project area's???

Forgive me...I had a buddy's kid harvest a dumbass Turkey off a SFW habitat for wildlife project....

Robb
 
More pimp tags? do we really need more tags taken out the hands of Utahs hunters whom have had to wait in line long enough already. When will SFW have enough tags given to them? Never?
I am readily amazed at how time and time again this group gives the average hunter in this state the shaft with no lube.
 
It was interesting at the Big Game Board meeting that two groups showed up but then one left very early in the meeting. SFW was there for most all the meeting. They pushed to increase the elk numbers and do away with the cow elk and the doe hunts. To increase the number of elk on the units so that in the future there would be more hunting opportunity. To lower the tags on the Wasatch so when they got to the numbers the DWR want there the tag numbers will not make such a big drop. The DWR admitted that there is going to be a big drop in tag numbers on the Wasatch in the near future when elk numbers get where they want them. SFW said slow it down before that time you have to cut numbers. I think the numbers would be cut in half. I watched SFW push to have more animals in the state so that more opportunity for hunting would exist.

It was mentioned by the DWR that Utah did more habitat restoration in one year than the rest of the west did all together. That restoration was done with conservation tags. And I am not sure PleaseDeer but the 90% of the money raised on those conservation tags go into accounts that are not held by SFW making that money not shown on their tax return.
 
But look at how much better our hunting is today vs 5, 10, even 15 years ago. All these habitat projects and more than all other states combined and our hunting is no better than any other state that has done far less than Utah. So let's stop bringing up the notion if how much habitat has been saved. It has NOT HELPED OUR DEER HERDS AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!
 
You are right. our deer herd is hurting. since 1972 when the ban on 1080 was imposed our deer herds have been going down hill. How ever our elk herds have really grown and with many new transplants of sheep because of the habitat work that has been done has increased the sheep numbers. New hunts have came about. More buffalo tags and a new hunt for Buffalo. A few years ago Utah was rated as the best state for elk. All but the deer are growing but it is not going to happen over night. The deer are going down hill in all states. New measures are being tried in Utah to bring them back. Time will tell.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-12-12 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]Grizzly's post is one filled with wisdom. It's a shame many of the other hunters throughout the West aren't on the same page. Thanks for sharing!
 
You are right, not helped the deer herds. Other things it has. But you can not just look at the deer herds. And what would the deer herds be like if the habitat had not been done? All the western states are having trouble with their deer herds. Not just Utah. The deer that seam to be increasing is whitetail in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. Mule deer are going down hill in all states.
 
HOW THE H@#) DID THIS TURN INTO A SFW THREAD? Focus on the NOW! The proposal is given by the fish and game. Not SFW. The change doubles conservation sheep tags from up to 10 percent to up to 20 percent. The change increases tags for other species. Stop the whining about about the past and focus on what is being passed today! Who cares what was taken before, they are trying to take more TODAY!

Birdman, it makes me content to see the work that has been done. All I hope for is that we don't take even more tags to keep doing the work. Lets do the work we can with the same percentages of the past. Do you agree that 20 percent of sheep tags going to conservation tags is too high?
 
2 Point, I agree but I was at the Big Game Board Meeting and very few others were there. I sat and listened to the DWR Director who sits with the Board explain what was going on with these tags and why they were doing what they were doing. Nothing out of line. Just that people get on this and hear one thing or another, assume that it is gospel and start in. I attend the racs, the big game board meetings and others that the DWR have going. I do it for one reason, to know what is going on for my self and not what joe blow said he heard. The DWR director is no dummy. Things are explained. Those that disagree have that right. But find out what was really said and not what others want you to think.
 
Grizz,

Come on now. You are blaming SFW, Don Peay and Conservation permits for your four brothers losing interest in hunting?

If I was in charge, I would manage Utahs elk herd more like AZ management. Fewer rifle rut hunts. 50% success rates rifle and muzzle hunts. 25-50% success rate for archery and put more people through the system. Some like the current system.

Late season and archery success rates are not even close to 100% success. It is still way too hard to draw a good elk tag.

If you want a San Juan Elk tag keep waiting. That is your choice. Last year you could draw a North Cache Muzzle or Archery tag with 6 points. You can still draw some good tags with 5-10 points now.

I have a 18 and 13 year old boys. SFW didn't ruin their hunting. They both love to hunt and fish. In fact SFW helped pass 12 yrs can hunt general season and youth hunts at 12 yr of age. You can hunt Turkeys as soon as you pass hunter Ed. No age limit. Spike elk, general season elk hunts. Antlerless hunting all available. Trophy Hunting is supply and demand. It's hard to draw a great tag anywhere. SFW has done a lot of youth hunts, and promote youth hunting and fishing. Every year we have a youth pheasant hunt in Cache Valley thanks to SFW.

Many states have youth hunts very reasonable 100-130 dollars. Last year my 12 yr old shot a 14.5 inch lope in WY, my 17 yr old shot a 79 in lope in WY and a 170 class deer in CO. He also shot a nice 3 point buck in Ut and missed a 180 plus class general season buck in Ut.

When my dad grew up there were just a hand full of trophy elk tags. He was 68 yrs old when he shot a 350 class Ut Bull. When I was a kid, there were far fewer trophy elk hunts.

I'm not rich. Will never be able to afford a conservation permit. I work a side job to go on a few out of state hunts with my boys.

Our hunting would be worse without conservation permits and conservation groups. I don't think we should have more that 5% conservation permits however.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-12 AT 10:41PM (MST)[p]The Central Rac is Tuesday May 15th and the Northern Rac is Wednesday May 16th. Rather than coming on MM to find out the facts I think one would be better served to attend the Rac and ask the question directly to the individual giving the presentation!

I have attend all three proir Racs. Keven Bunnel is the one that gives the presentation.

Kevin exsplicitly said there will not be an increase in conservation tags. He said the change in the rule is to help bring clarification and make it easier to understand. He also said based on this formula permit numbers will be exactly the same as they have been.

After he gives his presentation it is opened up for questions from the public. Come ask and hear it for yourselves. Then you wont have to take mine or anyone elses word for it!

SFW is not pushing to increase Conservation Permit numbers. I find in quit interesting that all of the major Conservation groups attended a meeting addressing this program and yet SFW is the one that is accused of trying to increase the Conservation Permit numbers.

Some of you might not be aware of this but Don Peay does not call the shots for SFW. The SFW Executive Committee fills that role Byron Bateman, Ryan Foutz & Bryce Pilling.

Robb you are wrong in your assumption that SFW pockets all of the interest made off of the sale of these permits.

About a year ago at a Wildlife Board Meeting Ernie Perkins recognized and thank SFW for cutting a check back to the DWR for the interest that was generated from the sale of thier permits. He also recognized Utah SCI for turning back the 10%.

SFW even proposed at this meeting that all groups would be required to return the interest from conservation permits. Interesting enough some of the other Conservation Groups were not in favor of this!

As it stands it is left up to the individual group. Robb you are also wrong that none of the money has been spent on habitat. I can list several projects on the Paunsaugunt alone that were funded by dollars other than the 90%.

The 10% has always applied to Bighorn Sheep. Conservation Permit money is the life blood to Utah's Sheep Program. With out it Utah would not be hunting or issuing half the number of sheep tags it currently does.

I am aware of no plan to increase Sheep Conservation Permits. You might see one recomended for the Zion based on the size and growth of the herd, but in general they will stay the same.

Several of us complain that all of this habitat work has not done one thing to improve Utahs deer herd. That is not true!
It has not been as drastic as one would hope but at some point all this habitat will play a important role in recovering Utahs Deer herd.

Along with habitat we have to turn up the heat on predators and do everything else possible to give our herds the chance to rebound.
To all of the critics I would ask one simply question. Whats your Solution?

SFW may not have all of the answers but that has not stopped us from trying everything we possible can!

If you cannot make it to the last two RACS call Kevin Bunnel in the SLC office he can answer your questions.

Troy Justensen
X-treme
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-12 AT 01:25PM (MST)[p]>It was interesting at the Big
>Game Board meeting that two
>groups showed up but then
>one left very early in
>the meeting. SFW was
>there for most all the
>meeting. They pushed to
>increase the elk numbers and
>do away with the cow
>elk and the doe hunts.
> To increase the number
>of elk on the units
>so that in the future
>there would be more hunting
>opportunity. To lower the
>tags on the Wasatch so
>when they got to the
>numbers the DWR want there
>the tag numbers will not
>make such a big drop.
> The DWR admitted that
>there is going to be
>a big drop in tag
>numbers on the Wasatch in
>the near future when elk
>numbers get where they want
>them. SFW said slow
>it down before that time
>you have to cut numbers.
> I think the numbers
>would be cut in half.
> I watched
>SFW push to have more
>animals in the state so
>that more opportunity for hunting
>would exist.
>
>
> It was mentioned by
>the DWR that Utah did
>more habitat restoration in one
>year than the rest of
>the west did all together.
> That restoration was done
>with conservation tags.
>And I am not sure
>PleaseDeer but the 90% of
>the money raised on those
>conservation tags go into accounts
>that are not held by
>SFW making that money not
>shown on their tax return.
>
Just a couple of notes for clarification, because we all tend to see things from our own perspective.

Although it may seem like the Board is just interested in big game, it is a Wildlife Board, not a Big Game Board.

Of the two groups that showed up, SFW and UWC (Where were you others?), only UWC (myself) stayed to the bitter end. SFW left before the fishing variances discussion and votes took place 12 minutes before the meeting ended.

And you have to remember that many of those in attendance are compensated (or are offered compensation) for being there. On the other hand, UWC reps are volunteers, so that's why the other rep had to leave about halfway through the meeting. He had to go to work. I was able to stay because I'm retired.

Whether or not this information makes any difference in your view of things is for you to decide, but I thought it important enough to say it. Things aren't always what they seem.
 
Not all SFW left 12 min early. There was one that also stayed to the end and no he was not compensated in any way to be there. You are right. Things are not always as they appear to be.
 

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