Moose- Worth it or not?

[velvetmonster]

I am a non-resident with 5 moose points. My question is...is it worth staying in game? I have reviewed the drawing odds and calculated my approximate years to be in the max pool, but with numbers dropping (wolves etc..) I am trying to decide if it's worth the 75 bucks a year. Not needing the best units but one of the better units. Any thoughts?

 

[huntnrich]

I would say your at least 10 + years out before you would get a tag. So you just have to decide whether it's worth it or not. Alot might be in how old are you and add 10 to 15 years on to that to see where you'll be. If your 15 yrs trying to get a tag, that's 1100 bucks more on points. plus who knows how much the tag will cost by time you get one. Right know that's only about 2600 dollars invested in a Moose tag, so that's not to bad if you look at it like that. Lots to think about. Good luck!

 

[Zim]

Velvet,

Regardless of whatever anyone says......at 5 points, no way in hell is it worth it unless you are applying in every other Shiras moose state available first. If you are only applying in one or two states, take that $75/year and apply every other year to Idaho. Check out the draw odds and do the math. Not even remotely close. There are a pile of guys blindly throwing their money away in WY right now. Don't be one of them. This is coming from a guy who finally drew this year with 11 points, and will definitely not be applying any more.

 

[chipc]

Velvet,
I hate to be a wet blanket but I'm with Zim on this one. For a better idea go on the Wyo. G&F website and look at the preference point pool by year. Looks like there are about 3,000+ guys ahead of you (NR). Wyoming gives out about 50 -60 non resident bull tags per year so if you do the math you'll answer your own question. I'd save the $75 bucks and just apply random and hope you get lucky some time. Chip

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON May-23-11 AT 03:24PM (MST)[p]What the other two mentioned! Skip it and start applying for an Idaho tag. My Wyoming buddy drew a once-in-a-lifetime tag there on his first try in 2007 and it was the only nonresident tag issued in that particular unit. We had a great time and got him a very nice bull on the third day. Idaho has a lot of moose and a much better chance at drawing than Wyoming, especially for a cow if you want to get your feet wet while waiting on a bull

 

[MaineFlatlander]

Only you can answer that question.... I drew this year and will be done. Do the math given above and figure it out. Maybe you will be the lucky one and get a random tag before then, but then again maybe not. If you want to hunt soon and can swing it ID has better odds.....but it will cost you more right now. $150 for a license and $2000 for the tag (I think), but if it takes you 30 years to draw WY the costs there will mount.

 

[dwalton]

"I'd save the $75 bucks and just apply random and hope you get lucky some time. Chip "

Wyoming does not give you the option of just applying for the random draw. If you apply, they will deduct the $75 for a point from your refund..

 

[Triple_BB]

Depends how old you are. If you'll still be hunting in 20 - 30 years, go for it. Who knows what the app fee will be in 20 years. If you're questioning it because its $75, you probably can't afford it anyway. Guess it comes down to your priorities...

 

[Craig]

Stay in.

I'm a not res that had 5 points. When they raised the point fee to $75 i said screw it and dropped out. Now I am kicking myself in the butt every time I think about it. I would have 10 points now. and sitting pretty good for a tag now or in a couple years. just hang in there. I screwed up.

 

[velvetmonster]

LAST EDITED ON May-24-11 AT 09:15AM (MST)[p]Thanks for the feedback. I'm 38 years old and will still be hunting (God willing) in 20 years. It's not so much the $75 that hurts...it's the comparison to Idaho. I have applied for Idaho twice in the past and do realize that some units have very good odds for a tag. I only have the desire to harvest one Shiras in my life so if I draw Idaho I'd most likely stop Wyoming anyway. One problem is that if I switch to Idaho moose I cannot put in for deer, elk, and antelope up there. This only gives me one chance for a tag and the license fee hurts unless I hunt with an over the counter tag. I guess I have a few months to decide (did not apply for a moose tag this year..would be point only).

Craig-- when they upped the fee to $75 I also said screw it for two years. Then got back in. Wish I would have stayed.

 

[nontypical]

Hang in there,VM.You stated that you dropped out for 2 years and wish you would've stayed in.Don't make the same mistake twice.Moose are fun to hunt,and can be delicious table fare.After you kill one,you will probably want to repeat that experience.At your age,you could likely draw a couple tags before you reach 60.Some people spend money on race cars;some spend it on motorcycles.My wife spends it on crap.I hunt.$75 bucks a year is just the cost of my favorite pasttime.For me,$75 is a bargain after buying nonres licenses in Az and Nv(as well as a few others)every year to play the points game.

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON May-24-11 AT 10:23PM (MST)[p]
The WY moose format makes me recall a comment I once heard........The Illinois lotto is a tax on people bad at math. The same applies to anyone in the WY moose/sheep draw with less than 10 points.

 

[TOPGUN]

Gotta agree with ya on that one Zim!!!

 

[hoopscoach]

The number of years you can create hunting experiences are finite. I believe you should make as many memories as possible while you still can. As long as you can afford it and your family isn't going without basic necessities, I say go for it. The cool thing is that some lucky SOBs can draw tags in the random drawing. I personally know someone who drew a tag in their first year of applying for WY moose. JMO.



"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud"

 

[velvetmonster]

Hoops,

I totally agree with your comment about infinite hunting experiences. I put in for 11 big game hunts in 5 states every year. I put my son in for 9 hunts in four states. We should draw 12-15 big game hunts over the next ten years between us.

Zim,
As a numbers guy I can completely see the futility of applying for some hunts. Wyoming moose is on the bubble for me and that's why I'm looking for different perspectives. I do see moose as a guaranteed tag someday...just not anytime soon. I don't even consider a random tag because my level of luck just won't allow that to happen.

I assume some are suggesting I drop out so their odds get better..I get that. There are a few units that look like I could draw within the next five years or so.. just not the better units. I guess it's like a marriage...If I'm in I need to be in all the way and for the long haul..

Thanks again for your feedback.
VM

 

[nripepi]

I think this is wrong and should be changed. It is just like a license needed to apply. This is obviously my opinion and sitting at 10 points, I am one point from actually being in the game (missed the first $7 point by a year).

 

[dwalton]

Don't want to sound like one of those doomsday types, but we could see Shiras hunting closed down completely within the next decade in Wyoming if the population drops as drastically as it has in the past 9 years. This specie in Wyoming is struggling badly from so many issues (habitat degradation, heartworms, and yes - grizzly and wolf predation).

Look at how dramatically the permit numbers have been cut from 2001 to 2009. In 2001, there were 1396 moose tags given out. In 2009, this number was reduced to 575. This fall, the number has been reduced to 525.

I believe moose tags will become more difficult to draw each passing year. If Wyoming changes the preference structure to 50/50, it will make the wait even longer.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON May-26-11 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]
dwalton---That is part of the reason I agreed for him to forget Wyoming and go with Idaho. The moose population has declined greatly on the west side of the state due to things you mentioned and I can see more closures coming in the next few years. The BigHorn Mountains appear to be the one area now with a very good stabilized population, but I know for a fact that wolves are moving in there now too, even though F&G and the Feds will not admit it. I've attached a picture I took last September of a wolf track on the ranch next to where we hunt on the western slope of the BigHorns while we were doing some fence work. A Federal agent killed 3 out of what was said to be a pack of 8 that killed over 100 sheep and calves near there 2 years ago, so they are there for sure. It seems like when wolves get established that the first big game that suffer the consequences are moose and they are followed by elk. PS: I'm not into the moose draw at all, so I'm offering an impartial opinion based on what I see and not because I'm going for a tag.

 

[dwalton]

"The cool thing is that some lucky SOBs can draw tags in the random drawing. I personally know someone who drew a tag in their first year of applying for WY moose. JMO."

Here is the thing about random tags: there are so few of these left that a random tag shouldn't be figured into you choice of staying in the game or not. In 2011 there were 10 random bull tags given out in 8 areas (FOR THE ENTIRE STATE).

If you are applying for an area without the points it takes to draw, and that area doesn't have a random tag, you are really flushing your money down the drain because of the addition of the application fee!

 

[muzzhunter]

I'm with Craig, I got out when they raised the cost from $7 to $75. I regret it. You can't draw if you don't apply, and there are only so many places to apply for Moose. Just my $.02.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Just my to cents, but if you just want to hunt moose and are looking for a decent bull you should stay in. If you only want to hunt the top units for a record bull you may be out of luck. In 2007 I decided to get out of the game with 8 points and hunt moose in a unit with low population and low trophy potential. I had fun and took a nice bull on a DIY hunt with a friend. At that time I figured I would never draw unit 38 and felt any moose hunt was better than not moose hunting. I feel I made a good choice. When my waiting period is up I will take a good look at the odds and time frame required to draw another decent tag and decide then if it is worth it to start over again. By the way, I already apply for moose in other states too.

Bill

 

[Califelkslayer]

Like hoopscoach said, there are only so many places you can hunt moose......and who says once you draw a tag you have to quit??? Apply in WY and Idaho if you aren't applying for elk/deer there. IMO the $75.00 is a good investment.

My wife wants to shoot Bullwinkle more than anything else so I apply or buy PPs for her in 3 states every year. In reality, her moose will probably come from Alaska or Canada. I have zero interest so I don't play myself. But I will get her on a quality moose hunt before she can't do it anymore.

 

[PleaseDear]

I drew with 0 pts.....non-ressy....

Unit 15-----go figure on the big bad wolf scam....

Apply---and go with the roll of the dice....

The Speculators --- ya know---out in the future I will draw---blah--blah--blah....keep us that do draw happy! <;+)

Robb

 

[2lumpy]

I currently have 10 Wyoming Moose Points, will apply for the eleventh this year. I've got to burn them soon, I'm nearly 64 and the legs are going.

How many non-resident hunters have 11 points or more at this time, or is there any way to know? Are there any units that I could most likely draw with 11 points next year and hope to kill a bull?

Thanks gentlemen/ladies.

DC

 

[velvetmonster]

Lumpy,

There are 1381 hunters in your preference point group or higher. 788 of those hunters are in your group. I know, doesn't sound good. There are a few units that you could/should be able to draw next year though. Go to the odds section and take a look.

Mike

 

[Zim]

Lumpy,

At 10, I'd highly recommend applying for a low quality unit and burning those immediately. There are a few units you might be able to get next year. There is no way you'll get any Bighorn unit. I doubt 10 would even get one of the mid-tier units by next year.

That said, it is possible. I would rate my unit 20 as mid-tier, and one 10 pointer did draw the last tag. However, if you study the stats I am sure you'll find that log-jam at 11 will be an obstacle for you in most units.

 

[2lumpy]

I fear your right gentlemen.

Does this data tell you anything?

Thanks for your perspectives.

DC

 

[nripepi]

I am sitting at 10 points as well, one below the first magical year of $7 points! Basically in no man's land with regards to a decent tag. I am 34, so I do have hope that those with 11 will continue to drop out in the next 10 years.

 

[Zim]

I'm surprised 87 guys fell out of the 11 point pool. Can't imagine quitting once in that position. Have to believe for most it was easy paying $7/year but then decided they didn't want to pay $1,500??? What up?

 

[velvetmonster]

Zim,

I took that number to include those who drew a tag. Can't believe that many just dropped out.

 

[rmanwill]

I also have 11 points at this time and will continue to apply until I draw. Hopefully will draw once in Wyoming, once in Utah and some day make a trip up north for a Yukon Moose when the family is all raise and out on their own. I'm currently 50 and hope to have twenty more years in me to hunt!!!

 

[TOPGUN]

ZIM---I think VM is correct in his assessmentof those 87 with 11 PPs. I would guess that quite a few successfully drew units with their PPs, rather than just dropping out.

 

[BuzzH]

The one constant...you dont apply, you'll never draw.

I dont think anyone is "out" of the running, it will just take 20-30 years to draw. That sounds unreasonable until you realize that there are many hunters who started applying before the point system, some for many years without drawing. Some of them still havent drawn after applying for 20+ years.

With a limited number of permits, you have to be in this thing for the long-haul or get lucky in the random, that simple.

I currently have enough points to draw about 1/2 the moose areas in the state as a resident...and I dont plan on only hunting moose once in WY.

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-11 AT 01:57PM (MST)[p]>ZIM---I think VM is correct in
>his assessmentof those 87 with
>11 PPs. I would
>guess that quite a few
>successfully drew units with their
>PPs, rather than just dropping
>out.

Oh no question many of the 87 drew tags (me among them) but I thought there were just 60 tags or something. No doubt 11 point pool had the most draw, but deduct the top 5 units which they could not draw and your left with 87-60-5= at least 22 guys who dropped out or did not apply this year. That surprises me. Am I figuring correctly?

 

[Zim]

"The one constant...you dont apply, you'll never draw."

With all due respect, those of us nonresidents bending over lower & lower each year are really sick and tired of this stale old Don Peay battle cry. Unfortunately, the states have turned this into a money making endeavor trying to hook as many hunters bad at math as possible. Anybody who blindly dives into these $75+/year + interest deals with that battle cry as their doctrine is truly a stupid fool unless they just like donating to wildlife management.

It is right to study, ask questions, then make the best investment.

Jest sayin.

 

[Triple_BB]

I've bought into the doctrine if you don't apply you can't draw. Nothing stupid or foolish about it, somebody has to draw. I just paid $80 to fill up my truck and didn't think twice about it. I also just spent and likely threw away $185 applying in Idaho for an elk area with low draw odds. If the thought of losing $75 bothers you, you may want to take up a different sport...

 

[BuzzH]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-11 AT 05:42PM (MST)[p]Zim,

I'll be the first to admit that the point games are far from perfect, I dont like them either.

But, you really only have 2 choices if you want to hunt.

1. Play the game and apply.
2. Sit on the sidelines and whine until you're dead.

Further, I get sick and tired of your constant pi$$ing and moaning about the price of applying, how tough it is to draw, how every state is picking on you, how much the NR licenses are, etc. Some people pretend to care about wildlife and hunting right up until they have to shake the dust out of their wallets...fuggin' cheap skates.

I look at it as an investment into the future of the sport, the future of wildlife, and the management of same. It costs money to manage wildlife, and I gladly pay it. You want a sure thing, go book a guided hunt somewhere or head to Texas.

I've had some pretty good luck with the permits and draws:

For example, moose and goat in Montana, 2 good bull tags in AZ in the last 4 years (drew this year again), 2 great AZ coues tags, good antelope permit in New Mexico last year, Muskox in Alaska this year, several good antelope tags in Wyoming, a top elk tag in Wyoming...just to name a few.

I'll continue to roll the dice and support wildlife and its management.

 

[2lumpy]

It's a tar-baby for everyone, state agencies, us guys, this task of distributing opportunity is a damned if you do, damned if you don't cauldron. I remember the way it was before any draws, dodging bullets from every direction, then we tried random draws and some guys drew every other year and some guys went 15/20 years without drawing anything (bad luck at the draw seems to find some folks and dig in like a deer tick), then we went to the current system and everyone knows what thats like.

Problem is we have more demand for the resource than we do critters. The answers is to grow more critters but that's a damning assignment too, if you an agency employee. I don't guess there are any easy answers but to keep trying to herd it forward and try to keep it between the ditches.

Thanks for your help guys, you opinions are a great help to me.

DC

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-11 AT 08:48PM (MST)[p]Having drawn this year, I no longer have a dog in this fight, because no way I'm applying again. However, when newbies post on here seeking advice, I prefer to help them interpret the draw stats and tell them the truth, not blindly mislead them. Excuse me. Please proceed. Don't let the facts get in your way.

If they raised the nonrefundable application fee to $5,000/year, there would still be people on this site telling newbies "You can't draw if you don't apply" and advise them to go for it.

 

[BuzzH]

A newbie can expect what the rest of have...apply for 20-30 years consistantly and you'll be hunting many species.

I assure you that if a person starts applying right now for a Wyoming moose in 20 years time you'll be drawing a tag, maybe much sooner if you get lucky in the random draw. Will it cost you some $$$. Absolutely, but IMO, its a small price to pay for yearly management of animals like moose, sheep, goats, pronghorn, etc. Even though I dont hunt them all every year, it costs money each year to manage them...and management hasnt gotten any cheaper.

The money people blow on pure $hit is amazing...and why I find complaining about funding wildlife such a fuggin' joke.

I mean really...$75 a year is even worth complaining about?

Not hardly.

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-04-11 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]You can go moose hunting this year for $3,000 in Canada. Do the math at $75/year for 25 years, compounding interest. If you live that long, and they don't raise fees.

Your initial post did not include telling the newbies to look at their lost fees as donations to wildlife.

I only opposed to instructing newbies to make investment decisions based on the "you can't draw if you don't apply" theory. Painting with way too wide a brush there. Bad advice.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Triple-BB
You own a small truck or was your tank half full?

 

[Triple_BB]

26 gl. I put 24 gl's or so.

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-11 AT 12:35PM (MST)[p]Just got a flyer from an Ontario outfitter I use for Canadian fly-in fishing. They added a Do-it-yourself moose hunt remote drive-in option this year for $1,780 which includes the tag. They have taken 6 bulls over 55" in the last 7 years. These are the Canadian species of course. The Wyoming nonresident tag alone is $1,402.

And with this a guy doesn't have to apply, buy points, nor wait. A newbie can hunt this year. I can't see why anyone would climb onto the current WY program with these other options out there. One can maybe make a case for sheep if you've already got some points built up. Sheep are pricey even for Canada, but for moose this is a no brainer.

 

[TOPGUN]

Neither can I Zim! Not unless a person is already up to double digit PPs and will draw in the next 5 years or so!

 

[nontypical]

Who is this outfitter?I need to see that to believe it!That's a hell of a bargain in this day and age!!

 

[velvetmonster]

I guess I'll bring this thread back to life. It's time to apply for points. I made the decision to stay in the game. Anyone else with 5 or so points choosing to part with $75 this year?

Thanks for everyone's input.

VM

 

[dwalton]

You know the saying..."Love is blind."

Best of luck to you in the future draws!

 

[2lumpy]

I'm in, sigh!

DC

 

[Califelkslayer]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-11 AT 01:40AM (MST)[p]Deer, elk and antelope for everyone, moose for the wife.

I apply for me, my wife, step-son (last year as a junior) and son who is in Iraq. Not a cheap endeavor. But we all love to hunt so what are you gonna do????? Apply, apply, apply.

WE have enough PPs to draw a good antelope/deer combo hunt in 2012. BUT also several other hunts in other states we would likely draw next year. Want to do the antelope, then deer hunt. Great opportunity for my wife and step son to take multiple animals. Son and I will trophy hunt and probably not even fill ou tags. With last year's winter in SW Wyoming, I'm thinking we'll wait another year or two. But if we weren't apply since the beginning of the PPs game, we wouldn't even have the decision to make. Translate a 3-4-5 PP antelope hunt into a 12-15 PP moose hunt. To me it's the same. I'm just glad I am in the position to have to make that choice before 3/15/2012.

At 51 I don't want to look back in 20 years and say, "I just should have applied."