NE RAC

[elkantlers]

LR are shooting .40 cal

No shitt! That's why they could have made the rule of 50cal minimum, with loose powder and full bore bullets.
That along with 4x scopes puts everyone at 250yds.

 

[MrShane]

But This Kinda BS With A Rifle Is OK?

A CHIP Shot At Almost A Mile Away,Right?

I threw up a little.
Please keep that rubbish off of MM.

 

[lif]

If you back track the whole process and the results of the action end up with the killing of less mature bucks on the muzzy hunt only, the only OBVIOUS conclusion is that it was a hidden agenda to save more mature bucks for the ALW guys.
Prove me wrong but you can’t.
And remember, I am pro muzzleloader hunts and my first weapon of choice.
That is why once I saw the ball was rolling on this and only going forward, I had the epiphany to go balls out on muzzy tech and cut it back so hard that only diehard Deer hunters (not Deer shooters) would want to go hunt with ‘no tech muzzy’ ( hint: think Idahos muzzy regs) and get the draw odds so low again I could draw my preferred GS muzzy tag every year.
Would my way of thinking save mature bucks?
Heck yes it would, but only for them to be cut down by ALW Deer shooters.
BUT, with muzzy tech being cut back so hard the majority of muzzy guys getting so pissed they would jump to ALW tags.

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

 

[MrShane]

4X scope or even 3 x 9 is hardly emerging technology. Could have made this so much easier by just picking one. And sure, you can shoot 400 yards with 4x, but not nearly as easy or as well. Low power magnification absolutely limits range.

The easiest way would have been components.

 

[Hunter21]

When is/was your starting date for new technologies?

2021 I suppose. When the Utah Wildlife Board asked the DWR to establish a Technology Committee to decide which NEW technologies and weapons should be used for hunting.

 

[roadrunner]

The PRC line up is for one reason.....short actions.

Yep. Essentially Hornady's version of Winchester's WSM and Remington's SAUM, both being beltless magnums.

The PRC gives magnum performance in its line.

 

[MrShane]

Exactly... Scopes on Muzzleloaders isn't exactly "Emerging Technology".

View attachment 127462

View attachment 127463

View attachment 127464

View attachment 127465

View attachment 127466

I would agree with that setup being the most tech allowable on a muzzy in a second!
Thank you for your recommendation on the open ignition/#11 cap only.
Love it!

 

[slamdunk]

First off. My comments were not directed at you. I should have specified that. I believe you have been fair and consistent throughout.

However, removing Garmin sights did absolutely nothing to hamstring archers to the extent removing sights would do to muzzleloaders. Especially those like me with old eyes.

Fair enough, I apologize.

The Garmin style sights are extremely useful for speeding up the ranging abilities of the shooter, this device is night and day advantage over a slider type of sight.
Believe me, Sliders were discussed and voted on.

As with the electronic automation of ranging in archery, it was only fitting to follow suit with all sights, meaning all scopes for MZ and CF rifles.

 

[roadrunner]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best.

Maybe not with deer but they sure will with antelope.

All the decent bucks scouted before my hunt this year were gone by the time the muzzy hunt rolled around. Does were still there the buck was gone.

Archery hunters didn't get them because they were there well into the archery hunt. Even the easy ones (65" two year olds) you could almost walk up to.

ALW hunters put the smack down to them...

 

[slamdunk]

I would agree with that setup being the most tech allowable on a muzzy in a second!
Thank you for your recommendation on the open ignition/#11 cap only.
Love it!

If that's where it ultimately lands, I will still embrace the change in my weapon and the way I will have to hunt.

 

[MrShane]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

I answered this 599 posts ago.
NOT me, WB please take our 209’s and rifle primers, and scopes, and closed ignition.

 

[MrShane]

2021 I suppose. When the Utah Wildlife Board asked the DWR to establish a Technology Committee to decide which NEW technologies and weapons should be used for hunting.

It would be more fun to make that date 1905.

 

[MrShane]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

What?
The success rates of the ALW season proves it will happen.
Those numbers are not a ‘guess’.

 

[lif]

What?
The success rates of the ALW season proves it will happen.
Those numbers are not a ‘guess’.

Success rates have not been based off mandatory reporting. Success rates do not show how many mature bucks are killed.

 

[lif]

What?
The success rates of the ALW season proves it will happen.
Those numbers are not a ‘guess’.

there is a reason that most of the big buck hunters I talk to would rather hunt muzzy season, and only part of that reason is the scope.

 

[Hunter21]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

I would, I wouldn’t even mind doing it when the scopes come off. It‘s not the first firearm hunt on every unit. When the rifles start going off on youth elk hunts and limited entry elk hunts the good majority of mature bucks where I’ve been head for private or hiding. For me the season isn’t that great of an advantage. I would actually like to try hunting later in October with my muzzleloader. Might even get lucky and get some weather to bring those bigger bucks back to me

 

[Vanilla]

You're the one that said you could shoot <12" at 500 yards.

Not what I “could” do. It’s what I “did” do.

I’ll reiterate, whether you believe it or not has absolutely zero bearing on what actually happened. People that have these weapons know the truth, so minimizing or denying it does no use.

JakeH is at least approaching this from a factual and honest position. He has one of these weapons and knows what it can do. He’s just against it because he doesn’t think the prohibition is necessary. It’s not an irrational opinion. There is room for all opinions in this discussion.

But I’ll push back when people are not factual with what the capabilities are. A 45 cal paramount with a custom turret and load properly worked up can shoot sub 12 inches at 400 yards all day long. Whether the conditions or the shooter will do that is a totally different discussion. The gun is 100% capable. In fact, it’s capable of much better than 12 inch groups!

That is not an opinion, it’s a fact.

 

[slamdunk]

Not what I “could” do. It’s what I “did” do.

I’ll reiterate, whether you believe it or not has absolutely zero bearing on what actually happened. People that have these weapons know the truth, so minimizing or denying it does no use.

JakeH is at least approaching this from a factual and honest position. He has one of these weapons and knows what it can do. He’s just against it because he doesn’t think the prohibition is necessary. It’s not an irrational opinion. There is room for all opinions in this discussion.

But I’ll push back when people are not factual with what the capabilities are. A 45 cal paramount with a custom turret and load properly worked up can shoot sub 12 inches at 400 yards all day long. Whether the conditions or the shooter will do that is a totally different discussion. The gun is 100% capable. In fact, it’s capable of much better than 12 inch groups!

That is not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Excellent post.

Also, and as I have tried reiterating is this-

As our buck numbers continue to decline, the demand for emerging technology will continue snowballing forward to keep us as successful as possible.

Not just in the weapon's themselves but in gadgetry like FLIR, Nano Technology glass in scopes and who knows what AI will bring to our hunting world.
Won't be long and we'll have live satellite imagery in handheld units, etc, etc.
The TC will have two appointed personnel attending the annual Shot Shows in LV and report back on the discoveries.

Yes, I completely agree with the anger of taking something away they already said we could have, I too am affected by it.
It was an admitted mistake and painful for all sides.

2 more days till the verdict is out.
My bet stands on pre 2016 at 1x and be done with it.
But I may be shocked....

 

[elkantlers]

Not what I “could” do. It’s what I “did” do.

I’ll reiterate, whether you believe it or not has absolutely zero bearing on what actually happened. People that have these weapons know the truth, so minimizing or denying it does no use.

JakeH is at least approaching this from a factual and honest position. He has one of these weapons and knows what it can do. He’s just against it because he doesn’t think the prohibition is necessary. It’s not an irrational opinion. There is room for all opinions in this discussion.

But I’ll push back when people are not factual with what the capabilities are. A 45 cal paramount with a custom turret and load properly worked up can shoot sub 12 inches at 400 yards all day long. Whether the conditions or the shooter will do that is a totally different discussion. The gun is 100% capable. In fact, it’s capable of much better than 12 inch groups!

That is not an opinion, it’s a fact.

99% of hunters can't. So the reasonable choice is to punish the 99 because of the 1?

I get there has to be some limitations, I really do. I just don't believe we need to go back to open sights when this whole committee was formed to look at "EMERGING TECHNOLOGY".

 

[elkassassin]

And Your F'N 2023 TOYOTA That Gets Your ASS To & From Your HoneyHole Does It Better Than Previous Models!

Get A F'N Committee!

I shoot a browning abolt

My son shoots a browning xbolt.

The xbolt destroys the abolt. The next browning model will destroy the xbolt.


Point being, the Paramount 2 will be better. The Paramount 3,4,5,6. Will each get better. And the model previous will get cheaper while making that gain.

What you or I can do today don't mean chit, because the companies are 2-3 years ahead of today

 

[elkassassin]

Sorry MrShane!

Sometimes You Gotta Show The People Here What Really Goes On!

Oh I Forgot!

It's OK For Rifles To Shoot In To Next Week!

I threw up a little.
Please keep that rubbish off of MM.

 

[falcon63]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

Not me. I want my scope and I want it in Sept.

 

[falcon63]

Not what I “could” do. It’s what I “did” do.

I’ll reiterate, whether you believe it or not has absolutely zero bearing on what actually happened. People that have these weapons know the truth, so minimizing or denying it does no use.

JakeH is at least approaching this from a factual and honest position. He has one of these weapons and knows what it can do. He’s just against it because he doesn’t think the prohibition is necessary. It’s not an irrational opinion. There is room for all opinions in this discussion.

But I’ll push back when people are not factual with what the capabilities are. A 45 cal paramount with a custom turret and load properly worked up can shoot sub 12 inches at 400 yards all day long. Whether the conditions or the shooter will do that is a totally different discussion. The gun is 100% capable. In fact, it’s capable of much better than 12 inch groups!

That is not an opinion, it’s a fact.

Capable off the bench is way different then the capability of field conditions.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller?

Couple Of Questions:

Have You Got Your Custom PARAMOUNT Ordered Yet?

And Did You Forget How To Reply To A PM?

 

[hossblur]

99% of hunters can't. So the reasonable choice is to punish the 99 because of the 1?

I get there has to be some limitations, I really do. I just don't believe we need to go back to open sights when this whole committee was formed to look at "EMERGING TECHNOLOGY".

View attachment 127516

If scopes don't do much, how is it a "punishment"?

 

[hossblur]

I'm excited to get this chit show over. On Nov 29, should we take Bess rifle scope next?

 

[Ballistic]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

Lif
I honestly believe the late September muzzy deer hunt is on the poor side for hunt timing. The velvet is coming off the bucks and the hormones push them into the dark timber. As a dedicated hunter 4 times now -only 1 buck killed w a muzzy.
The rifle hunt has been far better.

For elk in November it depends on the timing with snow. If it snows pretty good I have hunted some transition areas that can produce. I have hunted most all of the any bull units and only 2 can be good for the transition -JMO.
If it doesn’t snow the late elk muzzy is a very tough hunt. The rifle hunters from the elk and deer hunts put tons of pressure on the elk. And the elk are always 500-600 yards away - just my luck.
I consider myself a pretty good hunter and hike into the deep country. My opinion of unlimited elk tags on the 2nd season rifle is not good.
Hope this helps

 

[elkassassin]

My Scopes Are Mid-Grade!

You Wouldn't Get Anything You'd Like!

I'm excited to get this chit show over. On Nov 29, should we take Bess rifle scope next?

 

[hossblur]

My Scopes Are Mid-Grade!

You Wouldn't Get Anything You'd Like!

Nope. Fake news.

We have to make things exactly even.

Nothing else is acceptable

 

[elkantlers]

If scopes don't do much, how is it a "punishment"?

It's a punishment because archery and rifle are basically untouched.

 

[Vanilla]

99% of hunters can't. So the reasonable choice is to punish the 99 because of the 1?

I’m flattered you refer to me in the 1%. I assure you that I’m not!!!

Capable off the bench is way different then the capability of field conditions.

Agree with that in principle, but the elk meat in my freezer suggests it translated fine to field conditions.

Hey Niller?


Have You Got Your Custom PARAMOUNT Ordered Yet?

Nope, but I may buy a new muzzy and get after it if they take scopes off on Tuesday. I’m guessing many will no longer want to be muzzy hunters, and I can’t let Mr Shane have all the fun! I will admit Bessy, that gun was a shooter! I was blown away. I never imagined a muzzleloader could do what that gun did. I’m used to my 54 cal TC Thunder Hawk with open sights from back in the day where I would have been darn proud of a 150 yard shot!

 

[ktg]

It's a punishment because archery and rifle are basically untouched.

False. It started with archery.

 

[hossblur]

It's a punishment because archery and rifle are basically untouched.

YET.

Life's not fair. Sorry your mom didn't tell you that.

But take your pick, Nov 29, leets address another one

 

[elkassassin]

That's Fine!

But Listen!

For Once!

You Act Like You're PLUCKIN NIGHTFORCES Off My Guns!

You're Not!

Nope. Fake news.

We have to make things exactly even.

Nothing else is acceptable

 

[elkantlers]

YET.

Life's not fair. Sorry your mom didn't tell you that.

But take your pick, Nov 29, leets address another one

We'll see.

 

[twopointdn]

Maybe not with deer but they sure will with antelope.

All the decent bucks scouted before my hunt this year were gone by the time the muzzy hunt rolled around. Does were still there the buck was gone.

Archery hunters didn't get them because they were there well into the archery hunt. Even the easy ones (65" two year olds) you could almost walk up to.

ALW hunters put the smack down to them...

Another example of a muzzleloader hunt that should be before the ALW hunt. Archery first, muzzleloader second, and rifle last. The only exception to this would be if they aligned a archery or muzzleloader hunt after a ALW hunt because the season aligned with the species rut.

 

[slamdunk]

That's Fine!

But Listen!

For Once!

You Act Like You're PLUCKIN NIGHTFORCES Off My Guns!

You're Not!

What is the reason for targeting Nightforce scopes?
Maybe mine is just a plain jane, but it doesn't do anything any other scope doesn't.

 

[elkassassin]

Don't Get Too Wound Up Just Yet!

I Heard Through The BS Grapvine If They Get Their Take On The SmokePole Scopes,They Wanna Take The Inlines With Their Next TAKE!

I’m flattered you refer to me in the 1%. I assure you that I’m not!!!



Agree with that in principle, but the elk meat in my freezer suggests it translated fine to field conditions.



Nope, but I may buy a new muzzy and get after it if they take scopes off on Tuesday. I’m guessing many will no longer want to be muzzy hunters, and I can’t let Mr Shane have all the fun! I will admit Bessy, that gun was a shooter! I was blown away. I never imagined a muzzleloader could do what that gun did. I’m used to my 54 cal TC Thunder Hawk with open sights from back in the day where I would have been darn proud of a 150 yard shot!

 

[elkassassin]

Well PUNK!

Niller,Hossy & hawky Think I Have TOP END NIGHTFORCES On All My Guns Including My SmokePole!

GAWD I Wish They Were All Right Just Once!

What is the reason for targeting Nightforce scopes?
Maybe mine is just a plain jane, but it doesn't do anything any other scope doesn't.

 

[slamdunk]

Well PUNK!

Niller,Hossy & hawky Think I Have TOP END NIGHTFORCES On All My Guns Including My SmokePole!

GAWD I Wish They Were All Right Just Once!

Burris and Sig are the scope brands that has banned models, Nightforce hasn't ever crossed any crazy lines of technology.

 

[slamdunk]

Don't Get Too Wound Up Just Yet!

I Heard Through The BS Grapvine If They Get Their Take On The SmokePole Scopes,They Wanna Take The Inlines With Their Next TAKE!

Inlines aren't going anywhere......not from the TC anyway.

 

[elkassassin]

Nobody Is Knocking NIGHFORCE!

I Wish I Had Top End NIGHTFORCE On All My Guns Like Them 3 Think!

hawky Had To Remove His Sig I Guess?

Now He's POUTIN!

Burris and Sig are the scope brands that has banned models, Nightforce hasn't ever crossed any crazy lines of technology.

 

[elkassassin]

Well hogg_65!

You've Really Stirred Some Shhitt Up This Time!

 

[hossblur]

That's Fine!

But Listen!

For Once!

You Act Like You're PLUCKIN NIGHTFORCES Off My Guns!

You're Not!

I was told everything has to be fair and even.

If they come off muzzys, we have to be fair

 

[Vanilla]

Well PUNK!

Niller,Hossy & hawky Think I Have TOP END NIGHTFORCES On All My Guns Including My SmokePole!

GAWD I Wish They Were All Right Just Once!

Nah, if you used even any modern glass you’d actually find animals! We all know these are your binos:

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller?

I'm Asking One More Time?

Have You Forgot How To Reply To A PM?

We're Gonna Need Your TOP END Glass!

So No BS Excuses You Left It Home,Etc!

Nah, if you used even any modern glass you’d actually find animals! We all know these are your binos:
View attachment 127529

 

[roadrunner]

Another example of a muzzleloader hunt that should be before the ALW hunt. Archery first, muzzleloader second, and rifle last. The only exception to this would be if they aligned a archery or muzzleloader hunt after a ALW hunt because the season aligned with the species rut.

Agreed, especially if it goes no scope. Most other states put all weapons hunts last. In this case, the ALW is more in line with the rut than the muzzy hunt is.

 

[MrShane]

I’m flattered you refer to me in the 1%. I assure you that I’m not!!!



Agree with that in principle, but the elk meat in my freezer suggests it translated fine to field conditions.



Nope, but I may buy a new muzzy and get after it if they take scopes off on Tuesday. I’m guessing many will no longer want to be muzzy hunters, and I can’t let Mr Shane have all the fun! I will admit Bessy, that gun was a shooter! I was blown away. I never imagined a muzzleloader could do what that gun did. I’m used to my 54 cal TC Thunder Hawk with open sights from back in the day where I would have been darn proud of a 150 yard shot!

Shhhhh.
Don’t tell anyone how I now hope it plays out.

 

[MrShane]

Don't Get Too Wound Up Just Yet!

I Heard Through The BS Grapvine If They Get Their Take On The SmokePole Scopes,They Wanna Take The Inlines With Their Next TAKE!

This entire debacle should have been a ‘one and done’ affair.
The DWR should just copy……..
Yep, you guessed it!!

 

[Hunter21]

I have no doubt that mandatory reporting will tell a different story about muzzleloader success rates

To bad we won’t find out. Thinking scopes were an issue and knowing the possibility of them being taken off they should have started mandatory reporting on the muzzleloader hunt a few years ago. The last three years with scopes and the next three without would have been interesting.

 

[roadrunner]

This entire debacle should have been a ‘one and done’ affair.
The DWR should just copy……..
Yep, you guessed it!!

Colorado?

 

[Dangbig]

Agreed, especially if it goes no scope. Most other states put all weapons hunts last. In this case, the ALW is more in line with the rut than the muzzy hunt is.

No scope -should equal added days -sticks and strings get a month plus the extended……

 

[deadibob]

Yeah, I've seen 'Quigley Down Under' too.

When a living human does shoot a deer at 400 yds open sight in a hunting scenario, I'll be eager to read about it. If it's already being done, please post it up since you know for a fact that my statement was absolutely false.

Until then, it ain't gonna happen....

Edit: and just so we're talking about the same target, the kill zone on a deer (about the size of a basketball) that is dark brown against an earth colored backdrop is pretty tough to see 4 football field lengths away in low light with your bare eyes.

You’ve got one of those tiny brains that thinks if you can’t do something then nobody else can either.

Who is this Quigley you went down on?

 

[Robiland]

The assumption that the mature deer would get killed on the rifle hunt is a guess at best. I can’t say this enough, the advantage of the current muzzy season is only 50% the modern scopes and guns. The other 50% is the season itself. No one else on this thread, through 600 posts, has addressed this or commented on it. There is a huge advantage on any deer unit to be the first firearms hunting it. The deer in any unit will get much tougher to find with pressure from firearms. Also mix in the fact that many units in Utah have deer migrating in the first 20 days of October. A lot easier to scout and find a deer in September in the muzzy season. A lot more difficult to find them the second half of October, after a full muzzy season of pressure and the possibility of the deer migrating.

So, who would give up their early season advantage with the muzzy to keep their scopes?

I’ve been waiting for over 600 posts to have someone answer this.

I messaged Slam a few days ago about this. Why not have 2 seasons for the muzzy hunt. But only 1 draw, and you have to decide scoped or open sights. Open sights you hunt the Sept season. Scoped, you hunt the Oct season. Problem solved. And I dont think it will add all that many more to the already crowded ALW season.

 

[Vanilla]

I messaged Slam a few days ago about this. Why not have 2 seasons for the muzzy hunt. But only 1 draw, and you have to decide scoped or open sights. Open sights you hunt the Sept season. Scoped, you hunt the Oct season. Problem solved. And I dont think it will add all that many more to the already crowded ALW season.

The scoped muzzy hunt going to be at the same time as the spike and LE mid-rifle seasons?

Or are you talking about cutting the muzzy hunt in half to accommodate this split hunt proposal? Folks aren’t going to love that, I bet.

 

[elkassassin]

Not Knockin Your Idea!

But We've Already Got Too Many Deer Hunts Going!

Somethings Gotta Give Without Over-Lapping In To Other/Existing Hunts!

I messaged Slam a few days ago about this. Why not have 2 seasons for the muzzy hunt. But only 1 draw, and you have to decide scoped or open sights. Open sights you hunt the Sept season. Scoped, you hunt the Oct season. Problem solved. And I dont think it will add all that many more to the already crowded ALW season.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

I'll extend the same challenge to you. Let's see your <12" 5 shot group at 400 yards.
Put up or shut so they say.

Truth hurts doesn’t it.
you tried proving a point and it back fired. If this was the guns that were only allowed I would stand behind keeping scopes on them.
But where talking about a whole different animal.



Come tomorrow will see what happens.

 

[MrShane]

Colorado?

Soooo close, good guess though!
But the correct answer is Idaho.
Haha

 

[roadrunner]

You’ve got one of those tiny brains that thinks if you can’t do something then nobody else can either.

Who is this Quigley you went down on?

Yeah, that's what I thought. You don't know of anyone that can or is able to send a round into a 1'x1' low visibility target open sight at 400 yds.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Wow! The Board is going to have a field day with this. Really 659 post later! all I can say technology is a big big problem. I can clearly see that it all needs addressed.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

Wow! The Board is going to have a field day with this. Really 659 post later! all I can say technology is a big big problem. I can clearly see that it all needs addressed.

Don’t worry they are seeing this.

 

[treedagain]

Don’t worry they are seeing this.

Hopefully they see the once hidden agendas are now visible?

 

[Robiland]

The scoped muzzy hunt going to be at the same time as the spike and LE mid-rifle seasons?

Or are you talking about cutting the muzzy hunt in half to accommodate this split hunt proposal? Folks aren’t going to love that, I bet.

Keep the season as is. Just make them decide (somehow) to hunt the normal muzzy season in Sept or hunt during the rifle season with the scope. But you apply for muzzy hunt. So if there are 100 tags in the pool and you draw, just decide normal Sept or Oct and hunt with the rifle season. No new hunt or season, same amount of tags total. If that makes sense. If they have to keep the scopes, then hunt in the ALW time frame. They get their scopes just hunt in a different time frame.

 

[Shadow]

Sorry but I won’t be convinced that that scopes didn’t change success rates.
If they aren’t a distinct advantage, then why did most everyone put them on?

 

[Vanilla]

Yeah, that's not going to be viewed favorably by the ALW hunters or those muzzy hunters.

I think the only way you could do a split muzzy season would be to split the muzzy season itself.

So open sight season 9/23-9/28 and scope season 9/29-10/4. And I'm not sure people will go for that.

Any time you start messing with season dates there is a giant domino effect. The elk committee and WB sure didn't care about that last year, but you are going to see the downstream impacts of that as we move along.

 

[roadrunner]

Keep the season as is. Just make them decide (somehow) to hunt the normal muzzy season in Sept or hunt during the rifle season with the scope. But you apply for muzzy hunt. So if there are 100 tags in the pool and you draw, just decide normal Sept or Oct and hunt with the rifle season. No new hunt or season, same amount of tags total. If that makes sense. If they have to keep the scopes, then hunt in the ALW time frame. They get their scopes just hunt in a different time frame.

Only way is to make a separate hunt code with season dates.

Otherwise, they just get a less expensive or duplicate muzzleloader and go open sight in Sept and then if they don't find the buck they want (or couldn't kill) just go again in Oct with the scope.

 

[Robiland]

Only way is to make a separate hunt code with season dates.

Otherwise, they just get a less expensive or duplicate muzzleloader and go open sight in Sept and then if they don't find the buck they want (or couldn't kill) just go again in Oct with the scope.

I agree. Just throwing out the idea of same amount of muzzy tags, just throw them in with the rifle hunters, since that is what they are.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Keep the season as is. Just make them decide (somehow) to hunt the normal muzzy season in Sept or hunt during the rifle season with the scope. But you apply for muzzy hunt. So if there are 100 tags in the pool and you draw, just decide normal Sept or Oct and hunt with the rifle season. No new hunt or season, same amount of tags total. If that makes sense. If they have to keep the scopes, then hunt in the ALW time frame. They get their scopes just hunt in a different time frame.

I brought this up with the people I know. My idea was a little different.

The first 14 days of archery traditional

The second 14 days compound.

Run the Muzzy elk hunt during the muzzy deer hunt. This would be limited tag quota for muzzy elk. it would have restrictions though for both deer and elk hunt. No scopes open sights only.

Then have the Muzzy hunt the first hunt in October with scopes

Then have the first season rifle elk hunt start right after the Muzzy hunt. This would be a no scopes.

Then have the second season GS Elk hunt on top of the rifle deer hunt. Scopes allowed

The only hunt on GS that would be going would be the LE Muzzleloader deer hunt in November.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

I brought this up with the people I know. My idea was a little different.

Run the Muzzy elk hunt during the muzzy deer hunt. This would be limited tag quota for muzzy elk. it would have restrictions though for both deer and elk hunt.No scopes open sights only.

Then have the Muzzy hunt the first hunt in October with scopes

Then have the first season rifle elk hunt start right after the Muzzy hunt.

Then have the second season GS Elk hunt on top of the rifle deer hunt.

The only hunt on GS any bull that would be going would be the LE Muzzleloader deer hunt in November.

Now I could stand behind this. I would also add this.
First season rifle open sights only.
second season rifle with scopes.

The first 14 days of archery traditional
The second 14 days compound.

This makes it equal across the board.

 

[hossblur]

Now I could stand behind this. I would also add this.
First season rifle open sights only second season rifle with scopes.
The first 14 days of archery compound bows.
The second season traditional 14 days.

This makes it equal across the board.
[/Q

Trying to move away from tech means incentivizing more traditional

 

[MrShane]

Now I could stand behind this. I would also add this.
First season rifle open sights only.
second season rifle with scopes.

The first 14 days of archery compound bows.
The second season traditional 14 days.

This makes it equal across the board.

Don’t you mean first 14 day archery would be no compounds?

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

Don’t you mean first 14 day archery would be no compounds?

Yes my bad.
I will change that.

 

[hossblur]

I have a WILD IDEA


How about we take everything but 1x scopes off muzzys(allowing bad eyesight guys a deal without a pain in the AZZ cor).

And we tell all the "it's not fair guys"....

yes.

Life's not fair

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Now I could stand behind this. I would also add this.
First season rifle open sights only.
second season rifle with scopes.

The first 14 days of archery traditional
The second 14 days compound.

This makes it equal across the board.

I like it.

It sure does make it fair across the board.

 

[Ballistic]

Wow! The Board is going to have a field day with this. Really 659 post later! all I can say technology is a big big problem. I can clearly see that it all needs addressed.

You need to add the other 4 similar posts in - with 1 being locked. I think the other 4 had close to 2000 posts combined.

Pretty heated and controversial subject.

 

[roadrunner]

Now I could stand behind this. I would also add this.
First season rifle open sights only.
second season rifle with scopes.

The first 14 days of archery traditional
The second 14 days compound.

This makes it equal across the board.

You mean UT actually going along with what other western states do?

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

You mean UT actually going along with what other western states do?

What other states do this?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

You need to add the other 4 similar posts in - with 1 being locked. I think the other 4 had close to 2000 posts combined.

Pretty heated and controversial subject.

They already have those. it sure the hell Controversial I can't believe this crap. My solution fixes both sides shouldn't be any arguments at all.

 

[ktg]

I have a WILD IDEA


How about we take everything but 1x scopes off muzzys(allowing bad eyesight guys a deal without a pain in the AZZ cor).

And we tell all the "it's not fair guys"....

yes.

Life's not fair

I'm guessing that's what will happen.

 

[roadrunner]

What other states do this?

Split/multiple seasons? CO, NM,...

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

Split/multiple seasons? CO, NM,...

They sure do but they sure the hell don’t have traditional archery hunt or open sights rifle hunts.
Or do they?

 

[roadrunner]

They sure do but they sure the hell don’t have traditional archery hunt or open sights rifle hunts.
Or do they?

Nobody does out west I'm aware of. NM does have a limited weapons muzzleloader hunt though for some deer hunts. Flintlock or percussion cap, open sight, and full bore bullet or round ball only.

I'm talking about multiple and split seasons instead of lumping all in at once statewide.

Traditional archery and modern compound do not compete against each other from a management perspective and never have.

Scopes vs open sight is a no brainer.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

I sent that idea over to the wildlife board.

If they are having a hard time coming to an agreement then this looks like a great compromise all the way across the board to me.
Will just have to live with it. There will never need to be any changes in the future.pick and choose your hunt and your weapon. Problem solved

 

[roadrunner]

I sent that idea over to the wildlife board.

If they are having a hard time coming to an agreement then this looks like a great compromise all the way across the board to me.
Will just have to live with it. There will never need to be any changes in the future.pick and choose your hunt and your weapon. Problem solved

There likely won't be much of a difference though with scoped ALW and open-sight ALW on outcome since there are several people that can just as effectively make what many consider typical rifle shots at long distances (350 yds and beyond).

Even if you (or me) thinks they can't. At least that's what deadi said...

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

Traditional archery and modern compound do not compete against each other from a management perspective and never have.

I understand this but coming from my point of view.
The traditional guys will have the cream of the crop the harvest success will be extremely low and they will have the deer on edge then the compound kicks in and it just made that hunt a little harder.

But I 100 % agree archery should just stay the same but look at this mess where dealing with.
Just trying to make it equal all the way across the board.

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

There likely won't be much of a difference though with scoped ALW and open-sight ALW on outcome since there are several people that can just as effectively make what many consider typical rifle shots at long distances (350 yds and beyond).

Even if you (or me) thinks they can't. At least that's what deadi said...

Agree

 

[elkassassin]

Evident ally You've Never Looked Through A POFT 1X Scope?

The Average DRAT Eye Is About 1.3 Power!

So In Your Eyes A De-magnification Is Just Fine & Dandy & You Feel Like You've Accomplished Something?

TAKE ALL TECH!

And TAKE It Off Of Every Weapon Type!

This PUSSFOOTIN Around On One Weapon Type Is BS!

If We Are Serious About Making Changes Enough To Help We Need To TAKE IT ALL!

OK!

Now Somebody Can BAWL!

I have a WILD IDEA


How about we take everything but 1x scopes off muzzys(allowing bad eyesight guys a deal without a pain in the AZZ cor).

And we tell all the "it's not fair guys"....

yes.

Life's not fair

 

[Elkrunning-Scared]

I just want to let everyone know I didn’t send anything over to the board.
I was fishing to see who would all respond to it.
I’m not going to lie I thought for sure I would get back lash on it.

How ever it goes tomorrow .i hope we can put this all behind us.

 

[deadibob]

Yeah, that's what I thought. You don't know of anyone that can or is able to send a round into a 1'x1' low visibility target open sight at 400 yds.

It’s done at a lot further distances than 400 yards and you can even see the footage for yourself buddy. Pay a visit to the NMLRA website and then go watch some videos on YouTube about long distance muzzy shooting. Accurate shooting with irons is done a lot further than 400 yards and the proof is there for your eyes to see.

By the way this is the first time you mentioned low visibility in this conversation so you can through that chit out the window, it wasn’t in our discussion and not applicable.

You bring to mind what my Grandma used to say when she got back from ‘Nam and it’s appropriate here. “You don’t have a clue of what your talking about so STFU”

 

[deadibob]

Nobody does out west I'm aware of. NM does have a limited weapons muzzleloader hunt though for some deer hunts. Flintlock or percussion cap, open sight, and full bore bullet or round ball only.

I'm talking about multiple and split seasons instead of lumping all in at once statewide.

Traditional archery and modern compound do not compete against each other from a management perspective and never have.

Scopes vs open sight is a no brainer.

The problem with spreading out the hunts is the unintended consequences of pressuring the herds for even longer stretches of time. They need a time out somewhere in there.

 

[deadibob]

Evident ally You've Never Looked Through A POFT 1X Scope?

The Average DRAT Eye Is About 1.3 Power!

So In Your Eyes A De-magnification Is Just Fine & Dandy & You Feel Like You've Accomplished Something?

TAKE ALL TECH!

And TAKE It Off Of Every Weapon Type!

This PUSSFOOTIN Around On One Weapon Type Is BS!

If We Are Serious About Making Changes Enough To Help We Need To TAKE IT ALL!

OK!

Now Somebody Can BAWL!

Yep 1x scopes make things look smaller and that’s why I used a red dot over a 1x optical scope when they were legal.

 

[hossblur]

Forgive Bess.

Next time founder banishes him, when he comes back his new name will be YeahBut

 

[Shadow]

Forgive Bess.

Next time founder banishes him, when he comes back his new name will be YeahBut

With 2 T’s?

 

[roadrunner]

It’s done at a lot further distances than 400 yards and you can even see the footage for yourself buddy. Pay a visit to the NMLRA website and then go watch some videos on YouTube about long distance muzzy shooting. Accurate shooting with irons is done a lot further than 400 yards and the proof is there for your eyes to see.

By the way this is the first time you mentioned low visibility in this conversation so you can through that chit out the window, it wasn’t in our discussion and not applicable.

You bring to mind what my Grandma used to say when she got back from ‘Nam and it’s appropriate here. “You don’t have a clue of what your talking about so STFU”

I said hunting scenario. A controlled shootng situation is a far cry from the real thing. I'm glad they can see a neutral color basketball size target bare eye at 500 yds.

Learn the difference between through and throw if you want to look like an intelligent smartass.

Pay attention motormouth and I don't give a phuq what your grammy said.

So you can take your bullshit reply and you STFU

 

[elkassassin]

And hossy BAWLED!

Forgive Bess.

Next time founder banishes him, when he comes back his new name will be YeahBut

 

[elkassassin]

The Night Before & Things Are Heating Up!

 

[Vanilla]

Oh boy. Deadibob done gone and got himself on a list by saying mean things to a feller in his feelers and now he’s going to hear about for the next 4 years!

Giddy up!

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Niller?

Don't you Feel Just A Little Bit Guilty?

You're Out Perty Much Nothing Using The SmokePole You Used This Year!

You'll Lose Nothing No Matter The Change!

How Bout The Guy At The NE RAC Meeting That Can't Afford To Rig Up Another SmokePole Because Of The Changes That'll Be Made?

Who's Ever Gun You Used Didn't Dial That F'R In For Free Neither!

 

[slamdunk]

"Twas the night before meeting and all through Founders house, no creature was stirring not even a mouse........

When out on the lawn there came such a clatter, Twas the Wildlife Board making things matter......."

 

[lif]

Hey Niller?

Don't you Feel Just A Little Bit Guilty?

You're Out Perty Much Nothing Using The SmokePole You Used This Year!

You'll Lose Nothing No Matter The Change!

How Bout The Guy At The NE RAC Meeting That Can't Afford To Rig Up Another SmokePole Because Of The Changes That'll Be Made?

Who's Ever Gun You Used Didn't Dial That F'R In For Free Neither!

Hey Elk.

Since we’re still negotiating in the final hours, here’s my final offer:

9x scope limitation on all seasons. ALW and muzzy included. Rotate the general ALW and muzzy seasons every year.

What you think of that?