New LE Deer Units

N

nebo12000

Active Member
Messages
634
Just a heads up for everyone-- The Mule Deer committee/ RACs/ Wildlife board will more than likely be proposing 2-3 new LE deer units. One that will be up for discussion will be the Mineral Mt area. Maybe having a couple more LE units would help move folks through the system. The Mineral Mt unit may become a Premium unit like the Henrys/Pauns. We will see what comes out of the Mule Deer committee in the next couple months.
What's your thoughts ?
 
I hate the idea. There are 1000's of people that hunt the Mineral Mtns. every year now. It is very accessable making it a good place for kids to have the opportunity to hunt and be successful. I don't like taking opportunity away from the regular hunter. If it is made into a premium LE hunt only a few people will get to hunt it each year. Most locals will get to hunt it maybe once in their lives. That is unless you have a ton of money, then I am sure there will be a landowner, or conservation tag for you. They will have to cut the current 3000+ deer hunters for the Beaver unit now in half.
Why are we so worried abount moving people through the LE point system? If moving people through the point system is the goal, just add a couple late season tags to every general season unit and call them permium LE hunts. You could easily add 100 tags statewide. The Mineral Mtn. range will have to be cut to 10-15 tags for awhile to be considered a Premium unit.
 
Mineral Mountain limited entry is the worst idea ever, and SFW is pushing it, and if it happens, I will be forever against the SFW. This in one of the best deer herds in the state, produces good bucks every year, and many many hunters enjoy it. Especially the youth and older hunters. It is not a physically demanding hunt. You will be displacing over 1,000 hunters, so maybe 50 can hunt it. Why?? If we are going to go that route, then we may as well make every unit in the state Premium limited entry. You will either have to cut the Beaver unit deer tags in half from 3,000 to 1,500, or they will ruin whats left of the Beaver unit with way to many tags. I am very disappointed that the DWR would even consider this. Hunters are cutting their own throats again by taking opportunity away. I would understand if the deer herd was struggling out there, but it is as good as it gets in the state of Utah right now.
 
I have to agree with the other posters. Let's not take away opportunity. Why do we feel the need to move guys through the LE points logjam faster. If they don't like the buttplug then don't apply! Too many guys are whining about the system taking so long to move guys through. So what?! They think because they have a handful of points that they're entitled to draw NOW. Damn whiners!
Displacing 1000 hunters to make room for a handful of LE tags makes no sense to me.
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON May-23-14 AT 11:40AM (MST)[p]Nebo,
Can you please let me know when the Mule deer Committee is meeting? I know the majority of residents of Beaver County are against it. Also the Milford Wildlife club would like to attend to voice their objection to the proposal. Milford Wildlife club has 1300 signatures opposing it now.
 
WOW!! Who would have ever of thought
Of such a thing. Oh wait, I said this exact
Thing back in March when I was told I wasn't
Welcome on the Committee this time.

Nebo, I sincerely hope that the RACs and
Wildlife board get a copy of the survey this
Go around and freaking pay attention to
What Utah's sportsmen actually want.

Why in anyone's mind would telling more hunters
To stay home be a good thing?? Why would it be
A good idea to give the tag pimps and whores a few
More units to earn a buck from be a good idea when
You have hunters that can't draw a GS archery tag??

I feared with the hand picked, mostly one sided point of view
On the committee $hit like this would happen.

What an absolute slap in the face to Utah's hunters
And deer this is.




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON May-23-14 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]This is a terrible idea! Like most of you have posted, let the general season and units stay like they are. Don't take away even more general tags so a select few can sell a few more tags.

copple2
 
I got thinkin'
(this isn't directed at any one person but at all of us)

Do we really know what we want and what price we're willing to pay to get it?

The same guys who whine about never drawing a LE tag are the same guys who whine about lost opportunity yet push for additional LE units because it's not in their backyard, and they are the same guys who complain about a fellow hunter whacking a 2 point because, of course, they are such trophy hunters, they are the same guys who complain about the weather and the price of tea in China!

I've never hunted the Mineral whatevers, I'll draw a LE tag before most of you, I get a general season tag every year. So with that in mind, I should be the first person to want additional LE units. But NO, I try to look past my selfish desires and look at my Brother-hunters who would NOT get to deer hunt on a regular basis if we continue to LE the He!! out of the State.

Be careful what you wish for guys! If you want more deer with bigger antlers, this in one way to do it.... but at what cost?

Zeke
 
The Mineral Mtns. being a LE entry can all be tracked back to the Beaver County SFW leadership. They took the proposal to the DWR without so much as to asking the public, or even the paying SFW members of the county. They see it as a gold mine for them.
 
Lots of talk about what is going on with the Mule Deer working group. Lots of guesses and rumors. The group has a variety of people from around the state and includes most groups. UWC has a couple of members on it. SFW, MDF, UBA, several people from RAC.s and the DWR are just bringing suggestions as to what the people might want. They do not have to do anything the DWR wants if they do not want. All groups are very active in talking what they want. I have attended a meeting and listened. There is not a place bragabit that you can voice your opinion in the meetings. That time will come at the RAC's and WLB. The group seams to pass around ideas and they talk about it. There are a lot of topics that will be addressed at the Mule Deer committee. Lots of concern about the long line of people waiting for tags. Last year there were 20,000 more applicants for tags making it 357,000 people applying for tags. 20,000 more people added to the list of people wanting to hunt. When listening I never heard about the Mineral Mtn being made a LE unit but I do know that they talked about LE. If they do make more it will be the working group putting it together and not the DWR. Those on the working group are handed a chore to keep people as happy as they can. No matter what they do there will be opposition to the plan. Not everyone will agree. They are just doing the best that they can with what has been handed to them.
 
Dawg, I'm all for quality too, as long as it doesn't
Mean that I'm telling you and your kids to stay home.
Eventually the inch crowd won't have anyone to
Subsidize them in defending the sport or monetarily.

Bird, c'mon man, EVERY time SFW can reduce
Opportunity and increase success on big game animals
It does. New units also mean new wealth tags. Why would
They do anything else.

How long is Beaver SFW, Deloss Christensen
And Jake Albrecht gonna run mule deer in Utah.





"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
LAST EDITED ON May-24-14 AT 08:23AM (MST)[p]Just a thought, Its said that this idea is to "move people through the system. I feel the idea of taking an area that has this many people hunting it and restricting it to very few hunters is a bad idea. If the goal is to move people with the point system we have now, The only way to achieve this would be to make ALL limited entry units once in a lifetime. You hunt one limited unit and your done.If this were the case the "people" who need to "move" though the point system will become very selective knowing its once in a lifetime. Some units would become even harder to draw and other hunts might fade away. The biggest problem with the system now is for the youth and new hunters. I know my youngest boy (20) has said for himself, to continue putting in for the hunt he would like, would be more or less a once in a lifetime because there are so many max point holders, and so few tags,he has done the math. And claims his best chances of drawing, if the number continue like they are, will be in around 37 years. making him 57 years old. (again, his math not mine). I guess you might be one of those who say, BUT you still have a chance to draw with any amount of points, How many folks have max points again? MORE Limited area's are not going to help. My guess is some group or individual has realised that by creating a new area they stand some type of gain, and to heII with the rest. If SFW is pushing it , look at what they stand to gain. AND here is another question,. If this area does become Limited, where will the folks that hunt it now go hunting,. Are there enough other areas to absorb these displaced Hunters?
 
Stonefly has a great point, that I have been thinking about a lot. If you deer hunt sw desert panguitch lake, pahvant, Monroe, oak creek general, then you better be against this proposal, because many hunters will be putting in for these hunts making your chance of drawing more difficult. The 2 year wait to get a tag for sw desert may become 4 years if the mineral mountain becomes limited entry.
 
Don't why everyone things that SFW is going to profit from this if it did happen. Those tags go into a pool where SFW, MDF, FNAWS, RMEF, and others bid on those tags in an order. That meaning that any of these groups could end up with tags if a new limited entry unit did come about. Nothing guarantees who would get the tag.
 
If they want to stop the logjam, why not combine the LE and general units. The better units would have more people put in and thus a smaller chance of drawing and the less desired units would have a greater chance. They could just regulate how many tags are allocated to each unit like they already do.
 
Completely against the idea of more LE units for deer. It is ridiculous to me that the answer to our problems with mule deer is to shut down areas and give out a small percentage of tags so a select few Org's can push for high quality and conservation permits.

Funny how the groups who will profit from this are the ones on the committee pushing for it. How about we grow more deer not just a few high dollar bucks?

What a joke.
 
Sting, has it on the button. No additional limited entries, but the entry process combines all units for deer draw. The log jam is gone and you decide whether you want to hunt every year, every three years, or every five years. I don't think you would have to go beyond that except for maybe the Henries and Heatons.
 
Simple solution take the top 10 units with the worst draw odds and put a wait on those units meaning if you draw one of them you loose all points and are wait listed from drawing any of the previous years top ten units. That would clear up a ton of issues with the states deer problems!
 
Good hell guys there is an easy fix for this draw system and that is adopt Nevada's draw system it is the best system in the world. I've said it before and I will say it again. Adopt Nevada system.
 
There's an even easier system. It's called
Do away with half of the LE units we have now.



"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
As the old saying goes "don't hate the players, hate the game". Sportsman allowed it to happen, thus the way it is. You can't blame the property owners, county commissioners, guide owners, or any of the so called "conservation" organizations for lining their own pocket. You would do the same thing in their place. Elected county/city officials in rural Utah have been participating in corruption since statehood. To this day some of these town and counties are ruled by one or two extended family's. The same ones who have the most to gain by more LE units. So don't act surprised when they eventually get what they want.
 
I am on the beaver county sfw committee, I'm also the one that presented our proposal to the rac two years ago. So let me clarify what was requested. We requested to have the deer committee look into splitting the minerals from the beaver unit making it two units. Second we requested the committee to look into what options would be best for the unit. Leave it with the current buck to doe ratio general hunt. Increase buck to doe ratio leave general unit. Make it a limited entry. We requested at the time to use public input in the decision.

There are pros and cons to all three options. My personal opinion is option two is bad as you loose opportunity without the advantages of L.E.

So, we can continue to hunt it as is lots of opportunity with lots of young deer killed, or make it limited entry with lots less opportunity but increasing the quality. The position of the Beaver SFW committee is we want to split the unit, then manage to what the majority of sportsman want to see. It seems the popular vote is more opportunity.

We are not involved in behind doors manipulation of the plan. We do want to serve all sportsman. Paying particular attention to those in Beaver county.
 
So, yeah in a nutshell, SFW Beaver is at it again.
Damn, I'll never understand SFW's entitlement
In telling hunters to stay home. PETA is envious.

You do however wish to keep our taxes and habitat
Funding to subsidize the units you don't want anybody to
Hunt.







"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-23-14
>AT 11:40?AM (MST)
>
>Nebo,
>Can you please let me know
>when the Mule deer Committee
>is meeting? I know
>the majority of residents of
>Beaver County are against it.
> Also the Milford Wildlife
>club would like to attend
>to voice their objection to
>the proposal. Milford Wildlife
>club has 1300 signatures opposing
>it now.

Have all those people call their county commissioner, state legislators, and the governors office, and tell them to put a stop to this or they lose there vote.
 
Horrible idea.
Years ago Utah was king of the mule deer states.
We have 250000 hunters and they seemed spread out pretty well.
At that time we were hunting anywhere. Henry's open unit...etc.
The number of big bucks that are harvested today is no greater.
We need the oposite.
Move to a plan like Colorado.
One point system.
The whole state in one pool.
More LE. Bad bad bad idea.
 
Leave it alone. The last thing me need are MORE limited entery units.
Good old SFW at it again wanting to take people off the mountain and put them on the couch once again. SFW when is it time to man up and just go hunt, and quit trying to to make hunting easier by taking every one off the mountain. Oh wait I forgot someone in leadership will pull the damn tag from the expo every year so why do they care? All you guys see are dollar signs. What about the guys that hunt this unit all the time?? To hell with them I guess. Very selfish and this is another prime example why I despise these guys.
I hope all you boys who consider this their go to unit speak up and put a stop to this crap or I fear there will be more general units shut down in the future.
 
If they would just combine the point pools into 1 point pool they could adjust tag allocations with out the LE restrictions and after all we have to draw a deer tag every year anyways....be it General or LE...it is all a draw with 2 screwy point types and point pools.....

Robb
 
Noluck, Is there a specific list of your proposals that can be viewed by us "Sportsmen" that you want to help serve? And if so I would be interested in your idea's about where the displaced hunters from this area will be added to others area's, and what exactically the new areas are? I don't believe there are any other area's that could absorb this amount of pressure. And lastly I would like to know sfw's idea on how long it would take for this new Limited entry unit to produce the quality of Deer it has to , to enable sfw to make "big buck$" on the tags it will receive from the State. I mean hey... you guys should profit from it right, after all your the ones who started the ball rolling to SCREW the sportsmen who hunted the Unit. Dont forget to push for more tags in the other area's, so they can absorb the "outcast's" from YOUR area. then " we can continue to hunt it as is lots of opportunity with lots of young deer killed " (your quote) now apply it to all the other area's where YOU wont control the hunting. (loud applause) WTG!!! sfw once again your screwing the average hunter to line your pockets!
 
>I am on the beaver county
>sfw committee,........ We
>requested to have the deer
>committee look into splitting the
>minerals from the beaver unit
>making it two units.

Why?
 
Seems like a tag grab from a special interest group. What a load of garbage. This crap idea will cut out the guy who just likes to hunt so more inches can be grown.

"Boohoo someone shot a yearling. Boohoo. I would shoot a bigger deer if that guy wouldn't shoot a yearling. Whoa-s-me, I have no luck so please make it easier for me to kill a big buck. All I want is a 160"er so I can feel like a man. Oh-the-humanity. It is all about me and mine. To the dumpster with you and yours."
 
I was told 4-5 years ago sfw wanted this to go through. The reasoning straight from the horses mouth was "the area has incredible genetics and easy boundaries". Not quite the same as the reasoning being told now.

I am 100% opposed to adding any more LE units in utah. Push more point holders through the system by cutting mass opportunity at the same time, stupidity at its finest.
There are other options to achieve thier nonsensical reasoning for the proposal, maybe a single point system, or decreasing tags that carry the highest success rate and adding more tags to the less successful weapon types, just to name two.

I see the hunting opportunity in utah diminishing every year that goes by. Thank goodness I have points for other states that I can use in what has become YEARS between my general archery deer tags.
 
I realize no matter what I say most of you have already decided I'm a bad person because I'm involved with SFW, but I will attempt to be upfront and direct in my response. First, when it comes to wildlife ask 10 hunters what should happen on a unit and you will probably get 10 different answers from one end of the spectrum to the other.

The Reason I (I'm not speaking for SFW) believe Minerals and Beaver should be different units is they fit the model of the reason we went to 30 units - to be able to micro manage the units. The Beavers and Minerals are two different herds with small areas of crossover, And has obvious boundary lines. Many people feel the Beaver deer herd is struggling and the Minerals deer herd is doing very well splitting the units would allow the DNR to manage each herd independently.

I believe there are only two reason we should change a units management strategy. First - If there is a biological need dictated by the wildlife biologist. Second - if a strong majority of sportsmen support a change (such as increasing trophy potential.)

I also know that I don't have all the answers nor do I pretend to. I do donate a lot of time and effort to do what I can to help. I will not always be correct, but I'm trying to be a positive influence in the future of hunting. I understand many of us would do things differently, but I hope that anyone who has talked with me would find me to be respectful of their opinions even if we don't see eye to eye.
 
Noluck, I reread my post, if you feel I directed this at you as an individual, I wish to make clear I had No intention of directing any bad feeling at you, When I used the phrase "You" and "Your" what I should have said was sfw,. or any group that I feel, steals from honest sportmen. In your last post you said if ask,ten sportsmen would give ten different opinions. This may be true, But if you ask the people who hunt this area, if they would like to continue the hunt as is. Or if they would like to apply for a small percentage of the tags available now, In the state lottery draw, And a portion of these tag will not be drawn for, but given to special interest groups to auction off. What do you think the response would be? Again with direction to sfw and no one individual. sfw can wail that, there are open rac meetings over and over. But sadly here in the real world a lot of folks have obligations miles and miles from the circus called Rac meetings. Its been my experience that such meetings CAN (not always ) be no more than scape goat cluster phu@%s. So it can be said when poor ideas,.... ok removing sugar coating,to heII with calling them "poor idea's". Scapegoats for the State to use when legalised thievery! is made into law. "But we had public Meetings"yada yada yada. If anyone wants to prove to me that they care, and mean it then First, before any changes to public area's make it the LAW that NO group and NO individual, Can EVER in ANY way profit from ANY area insofar as gaining permits, OR access on said area. Any unit created from this time on will be a once in a lifetime unit, and points will all begin at 0 for this newly created unit, everyone is equal at beginning and applying for this area only builds point for this area. Lets see sfw put any kind of idea into anything they do. Disallow the legal thievery, and groups like sfw will fade away, and good riddance. BTW justin Shannon is besides himself with joy over the Deer population increasing like it has.... And this joker is in charge??!!!
 
Noluck, It doesn't matter to me if you are a good
Guy or not. I'll assume you are. The question I've
Always had, and it's the same for lumpy and 73,
Is why do you feel entitled in taking opportunity away
From Utah's hunting community??

It ain't to save the deer, that can't be done by stockpiling
Males of the species. In most cases it puts deer that serve
No other purpose than being a meal to one predator or another in
Direct competition with pregnant doe's that need all of the resources
They can find to give birth to productive offspring. In a bad
Winter this is disastrous.

Instead of putting effort in to creating exclusive game farms and
10% pay checks, put that effort in to getting hunters back
In the field. I've heard the worn out Don Peay rhetoric
About "growing a bigger pie" for a decade with elk. Utah's hunters
Have had it up to here with that $hit.

And Richard, after starting this post and seeing the opinion,
On a trophy rooted site like MM.com, I hope you have the good sense
To vote accordingly.

"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
No luck,

I have no reason to doubt your intentions and applaud anyone out donating their time for wildlife. I actually support splitting the beaver unit into two separate units if that will be biologically sound and make it easier to manage the separate herds you describe. That makes perfect sense and I bet if it stopped there you would have overwhelming support for it.

The issue in my opinion is the continued loss of opportunity for wealth tags and extremely long drawn out wait times for a permit.

If you ask 10 guys what they want they will all say they want to hunt! Not miss out on the yearly hunt in hopes of drawing a LE tag every 8-10 years (which is a minimum). Everyone wants to shoot a giant buck but if this thread is not proof enough that sportsmen are starting to push back I don't know what is. We are tired of lost opportunity.

IMO the mule deer committee should be looking at combining the units into one system and not looking at ways to cut future opportunity that we will never get back.
 
Silent has it. Spit the unit up, that is fine just do not make one into a LE hunt.
I have never hunted there nor do I plan on hunting there but by taking away the opportunity to hunt for the local hunters is not the answer.
 
Thanks for the input. Sorry if some of you think the RACs are a joke. We don't often get our proposals through the system and the Wildlife Board but I know of at least 3 that did make it though the Wildlife Board, so we do try to do our best. The "opportunity" folks are well represented on our RAC and we have good balance in our points of view . I would take a little exception to always losing opportunity. The fact is there is more opportunity now to hunt in Utah now than I can remember. The exception is deer-- fewer permits but also fewer deer to hunt. Believe me I am well aware of the "good old days" when there were 200,000 plus deer hunters hitting the hills on opening day and it wasn't unusual to see 50 -100 deer on opening morning. Elk hunting was a whole different situation though. Now,you basically can hunt elk every year if you want to. Open bull units, spike, antlerless ... Heck you can even go turkey hunting every year if you want to..
I'm not sure whether creating new LE deer units is a good move. I would like to see more info from all involved. It may be that the Mule Deer committee won't even make recommendations to do that. I just know it has been on the WB docket for a few years.
I do think that the continued pressure to increase deer numbers has pushed the DWR folks to increase predator removal as an aid in increasing survival rates for deer. 2 mild winters in a row has helped increase deer numbers and buck /doe ratios. The jury is still out on whether increased predator removal is paying benefits for our deer. You might be interested to know that the DWR trapped and collared a male cougar with a satellite transponder on the Monroe mountain a year ago. Using the satellite system they were able to track the cougar and document every time he killed a deer. After 1 year, the cougar was killing a deer every 2.3 days -- that's a lot of deer. Hopefully, all the efforts - habitat improvement, highway fencing, predator reduction, unit tag reduction (as deemed necessary)will all help increase our deer population. Every conservation group -- yes, including SFW--has and is helping to improve the deer situation-- If it weren't for them our opportunity to hunt wouldn't even be close to what we have right now. The DWR would simply not be able to work and fund everything that is going on right now.
 
Nebo-

Thanks for the update and for your service on the Central RAC. We are fortunate to have a RAC member that participates in this forum and seeks input from forum members. I have not always agreed with you on every issue but I appreciate your openness and willingness to discuss the issues.

The information that you provided about the mountain lion killing a deer every 2.3 days is shocking. I had always heard that lions kill "on average a deer a week" and I thought that was a lot. If the DWR's numbers are true, a handful of cougars could sure put the hurt on a deer herd, especially if that herd was already struggling due to other factors.

Thanks again.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Bowtech Destroyer
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
 
My vote is no to more LE units and he!! no to more premium Le units.


avatar_2528.jpg


who farted?
 
Nebo, I agree with 99.9% of what you said
And appreciate it.

Now if we can somehow get everyone from the
Director on down to those writing on napkins
In Monroe to actually believe that buck deer will
Never give birth we can actually make progress in
To bringing our herds back.

Opportunity??? I'm 1 tag in the last three years
For GS archery. The hunters repeatedly support
The use of primitive weapons to increase opportunity
Yet the RACs and WB ignore it every time it comes
Up. Why??




"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
 
I have said this multiple times. The day we have one point system, meaning no LE and no Gen just units will be the day only the Lifetime License holders get to hunt the Trophy areas.

I have felt this to be the hidden agenda behind Option 2 and the 30 unit management.

I think there will need to be an adjustment to the Lifetime license holders in the future. JMO
 
That is a great point Broadside. Those lifetime licenses need to be dealt with somehow before the systems can be combined. Those and dedicated tags are a major loophole that needs to be addressed.
 
I am in no-way affiliated with SFW and still believe they only represent "Rich Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife". I do find it hard to believe however that I am the only one in favor of more LE and more Premium units. I think it would be awesome to hunt a LE tag every 3-5 years than shoot a 2- point every 1-3 years.

I also have young children and would like to see them hunt too. I just realize that it is more fun to hunt deer with less crowd around and would rather help someone hunt a unit like the Book Cliffs than to hunt gen season.
 
Nebo, I do appreciate your efforts. And I do not think the RAC to be a joke. I will not back down from my comments that it, the RAC meeting, is used numerous times as a scapegoat, when poor magament is put into play. You claim to have "good balance" within the group. I do believe it was set up to be that way with the many different "walks of life" folks on the board. Where you are mislead is the DWR panders to the special interest groups for the very reason you mention in your last post, Quote" Every conservation group -- yes, including SFW--has and is helping to improve the deer situation-- If it weren't for them our opportunity to hunt wouldn't even be close to what we have right now. The DWR would simply not be able to work and fund everything that is going on right now".
I don't blame folks who honestly want to help improve the situation. I have Hunted Utah since is was 12, hunted Big game from 16, I am now, well lets say on the down hill slope. I hopefully, have raised my kids to Love hunting as much as I do. My oldest (of 3) grandsons accompanied me on a Deer hunt for the first time 3 years ago, He has been studying the Hunters Education manual for months now. And soon will take the class.
I will tell you something now, and I think you will know who I am . My wife and I were "Hunter Education instructors of the year" in 2008. Before that, I am the person who petitioned for a longer muzzleloader season and presented the proposal to the RAC. I was involved with the YHEC and Youth hunting and firearm safety for years. My wife was the person who arranged for the (short lived)Firearm safety class at Walmart, and She was responsible for contacting all the vendors for prizes. I have build foot bridges, planted browse, rebuilt bird watching towers. all for Hunting programs, in this State. I tell you this NOT to be padded on the back, You keep that for the guys who do "projects" and actually expect something for it. (like sfw).
If the situation with the DWR is ,as you say, They cant do the work and fund everything that is going on right now, Then ITS TIME the DWR is accountable. Why Cant they do the things we pay them to do, is it because there are to many programs like the Provo River Project ( for watchable Birds) How much is spent on Hardware ranch every year, and how does it help with the Deer hunting issues in southern utah. How much is spent at Farmington bay for Bird watching, Who pays the GLN centers upkeep, how does all this help Hunting issues. It does appease special interest groups, But where does the money come from?? I'd like an answere to this question. I have seen the "operating budget" For the DWR. its easy to find, Unlike the budgets for the special groups like sfw. How many employees, Contractors, Companies, does this budget fund, and how many are actually "in the field" officers. How many drive State trucks and sit at a desk. WHY, The DWR Cannot make laws only enforce them, Why do we allow the bureaucracy, Why is the money collected from sportsmen split and divided so many ways. Here is something you might know. Utah has the most successful Hunter Education program in the U.S. their "Blue Card" is excepted throughout not just the U.S. States, but many places throughout the World. How much DWR money is spent to run it?
I no longer Teach hunter Education, I have been ask several time in the last while, but don't think I will. I am done with the koolaid. It is a good program And I hope it continues to be. I will no longer be involved with the Dedicated Hunter program. It is way to distant from what it was, when I was involved with it. Politics aiding and aided by the special interest SFW types have about spoiled or smelled up most programs within the DWR.
Nebo, IMO your good folk, Fight the good fight,But when you've had enough of the kool aid, And that time will come, You will be just as cynical towards the sfw groups, as I am.
 
BeDawg,

Respectfully I must say that adding another LE hunt will not allow you to hunt a LE tag every 3-5 years. This is the fallacy of the dwr surveys and shop talk. People throw around this magical wonderland where we all get to hunt mature bucks with limited hunters and do so every 5 years.

This is simply not possible. With point creep the book cliffs archery tag is most likely going to take 9 points next year to draw. That is on a unit that is not considered quality by most trophy hunters. Add a waiting period to that and your looking at 10-12 years before you even get to apply again and as point creep continues to increase, who knows, you may pull the tag twice in your life?

I have multiple kids and I love to hunt. I look towards a system that allows for general season hunting where we have increased deer herds. I do NOT support giving away general season tags in exchange for very few LE permits. That is a loss for all sportsmen.

Be careful what you wish for...
 
I have seen the budget outlines for the DWR. I suppose that if we wanted to know more of the specifics of where the money is spent that is available. I do know that Big Game tag money is responsible for about 80% of the DWR budget. Almost all the other programs that the DWR is responsible for do not generate enough revenue to support themselves. The DWR is responsible to run programs that benefit non-hunters also. Watchable wildlife programs are funded by sportsman dollars. There has been some discussion about ways to have the public that enjoy observing wildlife and the outdoors but also are not hunters, contribute monetarily towards the conservation efforts that cost money. Do you think that everyone should someway, put a little money in the coffers to help fund some of the non-consumptive benefits of the management and conservation of wildlife ? Hunters bear the majority of the burden in that respect.
I'm not sure if the DWR is top heavy or not. I do know that with all the Federal mandates in regards to endangered species etc-- much of their time is consumed with responding to many of those issues. There is no doubt that much of the revenue and budget is eaten up by programs they have to respond to.
In my opinion, there may be a little Kool-Aid being served up, but I do not believe that it is large scale. For the most part I believe the DWR is full of hard working, dedicated folks who really care about wildlife. Certainly there are some that may be a little lackluster about what they do, but there are many, many voices and opinions that have to be considered. Ultimately, none of us will get exactly what we personally would want. Personally I would like to see the MT Nebo Wilderness put into a LE Deer unit. I would probably never draw that unit in my life, but I have seen what it once was and the only way to get it back approaching that is to limit it even more--- I love seeing big bucks nearly as much as hunting them. But it is not reasonable to expect that will ever happen. I have several grandsons that I have hunted with on that unit and that would most likely would end-- so, there are always trade offs. What works for you doesn't work for me. I encourage you and others to let your opinions be heard and stated-- you may not get all you want but you make a difference to the folks who sit on the RACs.
 
I hunted there as a kid and it was always a place you could go late in the season for a buck or a doe. This was part of the extended season along with the 12 mile area.
In those days there were deer everywhere and opportunity abounded. Hunters just want to hunt, and don't tell me there are not big deer still there. Each and every year there are some monsters that come out of there in the General Season. You just have to get out and hunt.
I say you leave the unit alone and let the people who have hunted there for generations with their families to continue to do so. No more LE areas there are enough. the highs and lows each year during drawing season are with out a doubt the worst and best of times.
In the old days we just decided where we wanted to go and we went. You could hunt any unit and there were big deer coming out all over the state.;
Man I miss the days and going and getting a tag and just going hunting for the sheer pleasure of it.
 
I'll tell you what I miss. The 800,000+ mule deer we use to have in the state of Utah. That's what I miss.
 
What do you guys think about having some early season high country(wilderness areas)rifle deer hunts in mid-Sept., during the same time as the LE elk rifle hunts.
And some early Nov. muzzy deer hunts during the same time as the muzzy elk hunts. These muzzy hunts would only be in the high B/D ratio units in which many of the bucks migrate off private lands onto public for the winter.
These hunts could be added to the LE deer pool.
 
>I'll tell you what I miss.
> The 800,000+ mule deer
>we use to have in
>the state of Utah.
>That's what I miss.

Agreed! So, how does creating more LE units with their mandatory higher buck to doe ratios help to get us back to 800,000+ mule deer?
 
LAST EDITED ON May-31-14 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]Lee,
My response was directed toward the wishes we could just still buy statewide deer tags over the counter.
 
>LAST EDITED ON May-31-14
>AT 12:03?PM (MST)
>
>Lee,
>My response was directed toward the
>wishes we could just still
>buy statewide deer tags over
>the counter.

Touche' Wouldn't it be great if we had the numbers to do that!
 
FWIW, The Wildlife Board Motions list reads: (for this issue)

"Late Fall 2013 - Target Date - Mineral Mountain Range

Motion: I move that we ask the division to study the issues and concerns of making the Mineral Mountain Range (west side of Beaver unit) a limited entry deer unit and that it be discussed during the revision of the deer plan with the Deer Management Committee. This is to be placed on the action log.

Assigned to: Bill Bates
Action: Under Study
Status: Pending
Placed on Action Log December 6, 2012"

Without reviewing the minutes of the above sited Wildlife Board meeting, I have no way of knowing how it was actually presented, nor who made the motion, but the above version is how it ended up. And I assume the committee will do as mandated, ie: discuss it. Whether or not it will be recommended is another matter as is the passing it through the RAC and Wildlife Board.
 

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