New Mexico Needs Better Mule Deer Management.

[ToneafterBone]

That seems to be the punch line for the 2013 Deer seasons. Sounds like there are enough of us to get someone to listen maybe huh. Let's cause an uproar to manage our deer heard...
COME ON NMDGF!!!

 

[salsola]

+1

I had the NE regional biologist say to me... "I don't want to discourage you, but I've never seen a buck deer in that unit." It would have been more funny if it wasn't so depressing.

The regional biologist. Seriously? In unit with 800+ tags each year.

I got the feeling herd management decisions must look like a 10 year old's birthday party with a pinata. Swing till you hit something boys!!!

 

[NMPaul]

Success rate in the teens is not acceptable.

The tough decision needs to be made. Tags need to be cut, and prices raised to make up the shortfall.

If we keep on the same pace we are on now soon we will not have a deer herd.

I hear them say that bucks do not have fawns.
However, every time a predator kills a doe instead of a buck, because most of the bucks have been shot out that is one less doe to drop fawns.

No way you can have 3000+ deer tags (including private land) in a unit like 34 and hope for a rebound.

Lastly, how can you issue tags with no limits for private property and no way besides the honor system to make sure that the deer are only hunted on private.
However, most of the large private land holdings do a better job managing the deer herd than public land.

 

[nmhuntr]

How about no deer hunt for 2-3 years except depridation. I would have no issue with that. Then just catch the poachers and we would be good. After the 3 years have a minimum point size for 2-3 years.

 

[NMPaul]

At this point we need to try anything. It is safe to say that dumping tags into units where the deer herd is on the ropes cannot be reasonable.

 

[Pnuts]

I'm only familiar with Unit 4 and Unit 38. Unit 4 is all private property except for the Sergeants, Rio Chama and Humphries. Regardless of the private property you still have to draw tags and they are limited. I've seen an increase in deer since they went to this format. I think 5A and the 2's are the same way. The youth hunt which starts next Wednesday might be as good as it gets. Awesome deer in the Rio Chama when the rut starts.

In my opinion 38 has declined since I started hunting down there about 15 years ago. They put a draw in place, but don't limit the amount of land owner tags that are issued. Is this the primary reason probably not but it is a contributing factor.

Increasing the cost of tags in my opinion increases poaching.

1. State wide we need to limit the tags.
2. Enforce poaching offenses. ( Penalty that fits the crime)
3. Predator control.

How do we get the Game and Fish to listen?

 

[aaronjo2324]

An idea that I have thought a lot about is have the state on a rotation system. For example, divide the state into NW, NE, SW, SE and close 1-2 of the units in each quadrant for 2-3 years and then after they are opened back up, implement a minimum of 3 points on a side (not including eye guards).... then change the closed units and continue on the rotation. I remember when they closed the Burros for 5 years and the trophy quality went up.

 

[lovehunting]

Just an Idea.
1. Cut the amount of tags you allocate by 75% each unit. This will never happen as it is a money game with NMDGF
2. Introduce a point system like Colorado has for drawing tags.
3. Limit bag limit to 3 points or better per side on the Buck?s.
4. Increase penalties for poaching crimes!

 

[cbat]

The biggest problem I believe is money. The game and fish dept only receives 2% of its funding from the general fund and the rest comes from license sales. If they cut tags then they cut their budget. We need to get them funded from the general fund so we can manage our herds with science and not money. The deer herd in our state is at an all time low. We hunted unit 29 and seen 1 small buck. Years past we would see 40 to 50 a day. My thoughts are kill coyotes and shut hunting down for 4 years to get an older class of deer. I have met with the biologist on the Jic res and asked him how do you grow big deer? His answer was kill coyotes and keep your number of hunters down. Its sad to see the state of our deer and antelope herds with the drought over hunting and no predator management.

 

[adkins333]

I agree with cutting tags and restricting animals to 3 points and eye gaurds DO NOT count but when they did that I found lots of Forkies dead in the hills that people walked up to and they left them be so they didn't get in trouble. But I think the drought finally has caught up to a lot of the deer and took its toll I've seen a lot of big bodied deer with wacky rack antlers which is more then likely due to drought. Yes people are still taking good deer but I agree NM issues to many tags. I wouldn't mind paying double if tags were cut in half but this new online system that NMGF issued is a joke people can go out and shoot all kinds of deer or elk because they can print off 10 licenses if they want to. We need another hunter in office that knows hunting and can manage game so instead of giving friends position in offices they will appoint accountable people.

 

[Ropinfool]

it's no different the way the G&F manages the elk. there's just more elk, for now.

 

[LCHC]

How about make deer hunts like the ibex hunt where they killed more than they had planned? The only way you would be eligible for a buck tag is if you turn in either 3 dead lions or 10 coyotes. Then you would be placed in a drawing for a buck tag. You would have a chance at drawing 1 of the 8 buck tags issued for the whole state.

 

[Ropinfool]

preditor management is a huge part of it. years ago, it used to be profitable to trap. now with the price of fuel and hides not being worth as much, it just isn't. the G&F should run trap lines and fund the effort with what they catch. it's definately needed.

 

[BloodhoundBrother]

Please see my new post up in response to this,

 

[muleywhisperer]

I live here in Santa Fe County and average about 20-30 coyotes a year that we kill while shed hunting, calling, and hunting. Most of the coyotes we kill is during summer months so there pelts are not any good. How are our deer numbers? They suck! We kill to minimize the amount of predators but there is little incentive left to pursue them at all. I own 300+ sets of number 3 traps that are collecting dust because trapping is a full time job that don't pay. My idea, create a type of bounty system that collects in ways similar to the habitat improvement system to pay individuals a bounty per kill. Since killing coyotes greatly helps the mule deer numbers,maybe the Governors muley tag should go toward funding that effort. Other ways to fund a bounty for sportsman: create premier mule deer tags that fetch a much higher price, land owner tags go up by 15 dollars since they don't pay for application fees or need stamps or create tax holidays where all taxes collected for the sale of hunting supplies by way of guns, ammo, bow or muzzle loading supplies go toward funding such efforts across the country.

I understand that there are other factors at work including lions, road kill, poaching, drought and too many tags but in my opinion coyotes are the worst. When we trapped full time in the 80's the deer numbers were stable and good now, I'm seeing little hope for any type of recovery unless things dramatically change.

 

[NMaddict]

Mule deer in new mexico are like the chupacabra! I've never seen one but some people believe they exist. Lol

 

[cosmic_cowboy]

I have been sitting back to see what you guys are saying about this situation and some great ideas out there.
I saw this coming 20 yrs ago before hunting forums and chat boards
I called NMDFG wrote letters to newspapers and G&F It all fell on deaf ears I've come to the conclusion that NMDGF just doesn't care about our deer...If lions start killing their precious Big Horns they get a lion hunter in there pronto and kill the lions out...but deer? They just see deer as $$$ from too many tags.And they won't reduce tag #s without making up the $ somehow else.But reality is here... some parts of the state have are close to having NO DEER LEFT! Its so sad that the GREAT Deer Herd we had in the 1970s and 80s is pretty much gone.I was lucky enough to see and hunt it but my kids never will.
Jack

 

[JACOB2006]

Can't find where I read it, but I think it was Utah has a 50 dollar bounty on predators. The way it worked was someone found a place buying the pelts so they would buy the dog for fifty dollars prep the pelt and sell it for a 100 dollars. Sounded like a win win situation.

 

[cosmic_cowboy]

Would be great if you could get $100.00 for a yote but around here you're lucky if you can get $20.00 not many people will skin those nasty critters for $20.00 but just killing them helps...

 

[countryboy300]

Hey guys, since we're talking about trying to save our deer herd. Here are a few things that i thought of/heard that are good ideas. Just some ideas and food for thought.

If we are trying to go with the point restriction then pick 3-4 units in different parts of the state and do a antler point restriction. Then make no change for 3 -4 years. Then collect the data and hunter rating survey rankings and see if it improved. Then apply state wide after that.

Visit with Colorado deer biologist and see how they generally consistently have a quality and quantity deer herd. They have a hell of a good deer herd throughout the whole state.

Reduce the deer tag numbers in many units and all weapons. We should go off current harvest data to support this. i believe any unit with an average under 25% to 30% across the board harvest should get reduced tags the following year. As well as the trend of all units and hunts.

To assist with low game warden numbers and high poaching! Is to get hunters who turn in poachers into a special draw for a high prized animal EX: ibex , 2B deer, oryx, Ibex, 16D elk- This is a huge incentive, plus a cheap way of having many eyes to assist the game wardens in the field.

The predator problem in the state that is huge. Is to have a predator harvest promotion going on. You harvest a coyote= 1 lottery ticket in a drawing, bobcat 3 lottery tickets in a drawing, mountain lion 10 lottery tickets in a drawing for a special lottery draw for a high prized animal EX: ibex , 2C deer, oryx, 16D elk. You have the whole season to harvest and check in at the game and fish office or a warden. May try and see one season to see if it improves the harvest. Both calling and trapping are approved method for the lottery draw.

I think to stay the same or increase the deer tag price 10 bucks, but no more. Harder for families to get out to hunt together any more. Especially with a couple kids and hunting multiple game animals.

Liked the idea of a land owner deer tag and a landowner elk tag @ a $25 tax or $50. Each being paid by the hunter who is buying the tag. Take the money and put into the below:
1. Could pay for the head count flights surveys- this will improve the herd by having better head count. Then adjust tags according to counts.
2. Or take the funds and then use that to pay the landowners for problems caused by the wildlife?
3. Or use the money and get some more wardens.

Implement a program that you can harvest a cougar with your deer or elk tag. So you could harvest a cougar with you deer/elk tag. Then your deer or elk tag would be void. Unless you purchase a separate cougar tag, then can harvest both.

Maybe change the youth deer hunt to only one weekend, that is 7 days long. The deer maybe getting hunted too hard for too long? Now don't get me wrong, I think that nm offers the best youth hunts available. I'm not saying get rid of them. I can't wait to take my girls out in a few year hunting. I just don't think the deer get a break really from sept. 1- jan. 15

Look to reduce the archery jan hunts- may cause problem with animals in the winter/ breeding season. Probably chased around so much they are having a harder time making it through? Not sure never bow hunted in January, don't beat me up just a thought. what do you guys think?

Sorry for the long winded post, just some things i have been things about. thanks to all

 

[NMboltripper]

The deer are GONE!!!!

Deer hunting in New Mexico is now a JOKE!!!!!

 

[Droptine45]

I called game and fish I was able to talk with the biologist that oversees the cougar
Programs. I asked him what his thoughts were on predator controls on
coyote population since very few people trap . He stated we have a lot of trappers tapping coyote especially since the price of fur was 75 dollars per dog. Say what ????? I asked why our fawn survival rate was so low he saidwe have a high fawn survival rate????? Who in the hell do we have working for game and fish?? We need to lobby Susana Martinez and demand a change !!!