OPEN CARRY LAWS IN LE UNITS???

[elkassassin]

Got a few Questions!

Looking for some Answers?

Let's say a Family Member has a Deer/Elk/LE/General Permit in TARDville!

1-Can the Family Members Helping the Permit Holder legally Carry a Gun during the Hunt even though they don't have a Permit for the Area/Unit?

2-Is it legal for a Bow Hunter to carry a Gun while He/She is Hunting?

3-If I am Helping a Muzzle-loader Hunter in a Different Unit other than where my Muzzle-loader Permit is valid can I legally pack My Muzzle-loader/other Guns in My Truck while Helping him?

4-If I'm Site-Seeing/Joy-Riding/Scouting for Game during an LE/General Season(Without a permit Myself!)can I legally pack a Gun on My Person,In My Vehicle?

Been alot of Heated Discussions Lately on this Subject!

I'm looking for the Legal Facts & Thanks!



Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[Deer1975]

If I see you packing a gun I'm turning your ass in

 

[Dconcrete]

Well, coyote season never closes. And it doesn't matter what you kill them with.

As far as open carry, I fail to see how a hunting season can trump your constitutional rights. Nor would I want it to.

If I were to ever be questioned on what I am doing, I wouldn't feel compelled to provide a deep laundry list.

You can legally open carry in Utah. How would a hunting season trump that? And again, why would anyone want it to?

As far as packing during the bow hunt? I think Utah just simply hasn't been challenged legally on that.

How can the fish and game deny your right to the 2nd amendment because of a certain hunt going on?

Do all the campers during the bow hunt have to keep firearms at home??

No. And as a strict archery only hunter, I wouldn't want them to anyways!!

The more guns, the better.

Do you have to check and make sure there's not a hunt going on before you go to
Recreate and shoot?

Just some
Thoughts

 

[elkassassin]

>If I see you packing a
>gun I'm turning your ass
>in

Hey Deer!

I Just SPEWED My DEW!






Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[just_a_hunter]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-15 AT 11:52PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-15 AT 11:50?PM (MST)

Utah used to have the "temporary game preserve" law. Yes it was stupid and unconstitutional and legally challenged and it was overturned in 2011 If you are a law abiding citizen you can legally openly carry a hand gun. Don't matter what tag you have or hunting season.

End of story.

They also used to require that any handgun in a vehicle need two actions to fire it like having 4 loaded in a 6 shot revolver. That law was challenged as well. Fully cocked and locked at all times is now legal in a vehicle.

These are only for handguns. I do think there are some long gun surrendering laws if you have an archery or muzzy tag. In other words you can't have a 30-06 on your person while you are archery hunting.. Obviously.

How you Utahn's don't know about these changes (and it's a bunch of you) 4 years after the fact is mind blowing to me.

Todd

 

[elkassassin]

Alot of us do know of the Changes!

Just don't know the Exact Laws/Rules while Hunting Seasons are going?

Yes,in TARDville We used to have Temporary Game Preserves,but not now that I know of?

I seen a couple of Guys this year Packin Side Arms while Hunting LE Elk Units with their SmokePoles!

So?

It's OK to pack a Hand Gun but not a Rifle during the Hunts?

Up on the 'UT Poaching' Thread the 'MM Game Wardens' are Hanging that Guy with Comments like:"He was Packin a Gun in an LE Elk Unit" without a Permit!

(((Yes I Do Understand He can't be Shooting other peoples Elk even if it is Legal for him to pack the Weapon during the Hunt!)))

Alot of people have their own thoughts!

But I'm looking for the Truth/Laws & Legality!

Then in a Post above says:Coyote Season is open year around,Most Coyote Hunters Ain't Using Hand Guns,So is the Coyote Hunter Legal with a Rifle in an LE Unit/General Unit to Pack his Rifle during that Season?
Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[shotgun1]

We'll I'm not sure of the law either Bessy, but I'll be down on the Henry's this weekend packin my rifle without a tag trying to be a real man looking for sick trophy bucks to end their suffering.

 

[Hawkeye]

Bessy-

The hunter who has the archery or muzzleloader tag cannot "possess" or "control" a rifle, shotgun, etc., except in limited circumstances such as another coninciding hunt (upland game, waterfowl, big game), to protect your livestock or pursuant to a concealed weapon permit. The langauge relating to archery hunts can be found in R657-5-11 and reads as follows:

"(4)(a) A person who has obtained an archery permit for a big game hunt may :

(i) use only archery equipment authorized in Subsections (1) and (2) to take the species authorized in the permit; and

(ii) not possess or be in control of a crossbow, draw-lock, rifle, shotgun or muzzleloader while in the field during an archery hunt.

(A) "Field" for purposes of this section, means a location where the permitted species of wildlife is likely to be found. "Field" does not include a hunter's established campsite or the interior of a fully enclosed automobile or truck.

(b) The provisions of Subsection (a) do not apply to:

(i) a person licensed to hunt upland game or waterfowl provided the person complies with Rules R657-6 and R657-9 and the Upland Game Guidebook and Waterfowl Guidebook, respectively, and possessing only the weapons authorized to take upland game or waterfowl;

(ii) a person licensed to hunt big game species during hunts that coincide with the archery hunt, provided the person is in compliance with the regulations of that hunt and possesses only the weapons authorized for that hunt;

(iii) livestock owners protecting their livestock;

(iv) a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon in accordance with Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7 of the Utah Code, provided the person is not utilizing the concealed firearm to hunt or take protected wildlife; or

(v) a person possessing a crossbow or draw-lock under a certificate of registration issued pursuant to R657-12."

There is similar language in R657-5-10 relating to muzzleloader hunts. The good news is the language of the rule appears to only apply to the hunter himself and not family members or friends. The bad news is the exception relating to concealed carry permit holders does not appear to apply to "open carrying." On a side note, I have a concealed carry permit but I never carry while archery hunting because I don't want to pack the extra weight.

Make sure you know the rules before heading out into the field.

-Hawkeye-

 

[flatdead]

>We'll I'm not sure of the
>law either Bessy, but I'll
>be down on the Henry's
>this weekend packin my rifle
>without a tag trying to
>be a real man looking
>for sick trophy bucks to
>end their suffering.


Do forget to take your "Big Balls" with you. Good luck on your sick hunt. I headed to Antelope island this weekend, heard there was a sick buck out there.

 

[WapitiBob]

Oregon tried to outlaw open carry and lost. Utah game laws don't trump Federal law regardless of what the game dept wants you to believe. Any Us Citizen can "open carry" a firearm regardless of open/closed seasons, tag or no tag.

 

[blazingsaddle]

This does not directly answer your question but here is an experience I had on the Henery Mts. a few years ago that pertains to the subject.
For a few years in a row we would make the trip down south to spend the day looking the Henerys over for rutting deer and shooting coyotes. This means we had multiple rifles and pistols in the truck with us.
On our way out, we were stopped by a warden. Although he was very polite, he stated that we cannot legally have rifles in our possession on the unit unless we had tags for the OIL bison hunt that was open at that time. As far as the pistols were concerned, we were fine to possess them because we all had CCPs. He let us off with a "warning" and let us on our way. I'm sure he stopped and checked the other 20 trucks that were coming off the mt behind us as well.

 

[3blade]

"(4)(a) A person who has obtained an archery permit for a big game hunt may :

(i) use only archery equipment authorized in Subsections (1) and (2) to take the species authorized in the permit; and

(ii) not possess or be in control of a crossbow, draw-lock, rifle, shotgun or muzzleloader while in the field during an archery hunt.


Doesn't say anything about handgun so that seems to be ok... no?

 

[elkassassin]

Well 3Blade & Others!

That's why I'm asking!

In Hopes of Finding out what the Laws are & what they Ain't!

As far as the Warden on the Henry's as Posted above,I just don't believe they Give Warnings much any more & where's the Law that says I can't shoot coyotes in November no matter which Unit a Guy might be on?

Everybody Enterpruts the Law different!

So A Truck/Car/Trailer/Tent is OK to have Firearms in them?

How bout a Wheeler in an enclosed box on the wheeler/side by side?

If you don't have a carry permit & the Gun is in the Box does that make it illegal without a carry permit?

Any Game Wardens wanna Chime in on this?

I'm not talkin MM Game Wardens Neither!




Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[WapitiBob]

Doesn't matter what a warden says, he'll just reference the statute. Have a rep ask your attorney general.

 

[just_a_hunter]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-15 AT 06:00PM (MST)[p]There is nothing more frustrating to me than a whole bunch of my fellow hunters and supposedly 2nd amendment advocates and supporters that can't follow current gun laws or bother to know what laws about it might have changed in the past.

It is not this difficult. Once again, alot of stuff changed when the "temprory game reserve" law was overturned in 2011.

You are allowed in the state of Utah to have a handgun openly any place any time. period. Your handgun can be fully loaded and condition 1, cocked and locked, stacked and racked or however else you want to define a fully loaded handgun any time any place period. If you choose to conceal your handgun, then you will need a concealed carry permit. There might be some city (ie SLC) rules countering the above but I think those were all overturned as well.

You are allowed to have a rifle any place any time as long as you don't have a muzzy or archery tag. period. You can not have a loaded long gun in the truck if you are hunting anything.

Todd

 

[Utah400Elk]

just-a-hunter


"You are allowed in the state of Utah to have a handgun openly any place any time. period." That is simply not true and could get people into a lot of trouble. There are numerous places that you can't carry firearms and doing so could get you into serious trouble (even in Utah). State and federal courts, federal buildings, U.S. Post Offices, city and county jails, state prisons, airports and or onto airlines just to name a few.

A warnig to anybody who decides to carry a firearm...dont believe everything you read on the internet, it could cause you a lot of problems.

 

[just_a_hunter]

Yeah my bad. I was giving credit that most people that are reading this aren't dumb asses (even though there are a lot that are ignorant to the state laws) and have common sense enough to half ass know federal laws. I was more so being very broad and relating to the "while I'm hunting" theme this thread is associated with. Soliciting legal advise on monstermuleys.com is pretty much stupid anyway.

But thanks for your clarification.

Todd

 

[Utah400Elk]

I am always leary to write anything hoping for common sense. If people are going to carry guns (I am a big fan of this idea) they need to know the laws, local, state and federal. I hope everybody has a safe and fun hunting season.

 

[1911]

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-15
>AT 11:52?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-15
>AT 11:50?PM (MST)
>
>Utah used to have the "temporary
>game preserve" law. Yes it
>was stupid and unconstitutional and
>legally challenged and it was
>overturned in 2011 If you
>are a law abiding citizen
>you can legally openly carry
>a hand gun. Don't matter
>what tag you have or
>hunting season.
>
>End of story.
>
>They also used to require that
>any handgun in a vehicle
>need two actions to fire
>it like having 4 loaded
>in a 6 shot revolver.
>That law was challenged as
>well. Fully cocked and locked
>at all times is now
>legal in a vehicle.
>
>These are only for handguns. I
>do think there are some
>long gun surrendering laws if
>you have an archery or
>muzzy tag. In other words
>you can't have a 30-06
>on your person while you
>are archery hunting.. Obviously.
>
>How you Utahn's don't know about
>these changes (and it's a
>bunch of you) 4 years
>after the fact is mind
>blowing to me.
>
>Todd


Don't flatter yourself Todd. The laws and administrative rules are ever changing and clear as pond water. To say it is an ambiguous legal maze is an understatement. Some Utahn's had to be uninformed and confused. When they sought the position of know-it-all, you had already filled the position. Please bear with them as they unwittingly disgust you with their ignorance. Now pardon me while I stand in awe of your benevolent omniscience.

 

[just_a_hunter]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-15 AT 00:48AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-15 AT 00:48?AM (MST)

You don't have to be a lawer to know the law. You don't have to be a cop (like yourself) either to know the law despite you cops thinking us mere citezens do. I would bet my favorite 1911 you have bullied people in the past who are intimidated by your authority as a respected peace officer into convicting themselves of various crimes. Did they deserve it? probably so....Would knowing the law as well as you prevent them from convicting themselves?... Probably.... Maybe bully is the wrong word but don't know any other to replace it.

Anything anybody needs to know about hunting laws and what guns they can pack during different hunts is clearly printed in the Utah proc... It doesn't take a genius or a lawyer to figure them out. Yet you get on here blasting me for calling people ignorant when you enforce laws and ticket folks who might be ignorant to the law under the grounds that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Kind of a catch 20 isn't it?

I hunted Utah muzzy buck this year and got sick of Utards (I was born and raised in the Moab area) calling me out and telling me how outlawish I was being by openly carrying my 1911. Its exhasting.

I am not a know it all even though I do come accross that way a lot of the time. Even in person and not just in loosing expression when there is a computer screen between us. You can clearly see how much of a genius I am by the amount of grammer errors in my posts... What gets to me is my fellow Americans who will go to thier graves standing up for the 2nd ammendment will not bother themselves with 15 minutes of reading the proc to actually learn what laws effect what they will die for. There are several above who clearly have never learned the "temporary game preserve" laws changed. That is ignorant as in they have clearly ignored the rules for the last 4 years, and just like I said earlier, I'm assuming nobody is a dumbass. Big difference between the two.

Thank you by the way for standing watch and keeping the folks that go bump in the night at bay. God bless you and stay safe!

Todd

 

[elkassassin]

You can call me Ignorant!

Been that way all my Life!

I've got so many different Answers in the last few years I think I could get myself in a Jam without even trying!






Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[1911]

I think my point was lost on a lot of tongue-in-cheek sarcasm. I agree with you on much more than I don't.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Just_a_Hunter?

I'm a Thinkin if 1911 ever gets you Pulled over there Ain't gonna be any Warnings!


Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[just_a_hunter]

>I think my point was lost
>on a lot of tongue-in-cheek
>sarcasm. I agree with
>you on much more than
>I don't.

I don't think that has ever happened on the internet before.. Ever....


"Hey Just_a_Hunter?

I'm a Thinkin if 1911 ever gets you Pulled over there Ain't gonna be any Warnings!"

That thought has crossed my mind.. I drive like an old lady 45 minutes early for church most of the time... But there is always that creepy speed reduced zone that hides really well. Kinda like the 30 or so between Rangely and Duchesne... In that case I will have to woo him with my good looks and plead ignorance and then site this thread.. I'm sure that will get me out of it!

Todd

 

[2stamp]

If I'm bowhunting, I always carry a handgun, either concealed or open. Same with ML. I have carried a shotgun on the ML while my brother hunted deer during that hunt (as the proc says you can) because I was looking for pine hens.

If I'm with another rifle hunter and I don't have a tag, I don't carry a rifle. I've missed chances at many a 'yote because of that. But I follow what the hunting proc says. I'm not interested in pushing the bounds of the stated laws and running afoul of a LEO just to dump a coyote. Yes I know yote season is year round. I'll wait the week or so until the hunt ends if I'm really jonesing to shoot dogs.

Actually I carry concealed daily so I don't get wierd about it. Just read the laws and comply.

 

[Vanilla]

It's good to see someone come on here and rebuke everyone in such a condescending way for not knowing the law, and then turn around and state the law incorrectly himself.

Forums are always a good read, for one reason or another.

 

[elkassassin]

Kinda what I Figured!

Everybody has their own Laws!




Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[just_a_hunter]

>It's good to see someone come
>on here and rebuke everyone
>in such a condescending way
>for not knowing the law,
>and then turn around and
>state the law incorrectly himself.
>
>
>Forums are always a good read,
>for one reason or another.
>

I didn't state the law incorrectly. You're calling me out on that and I want you to post where I stated it incorrectly. Once again, I just left a lot out assuming most folks aren't dumbasses and don't need told you can't carry in a court house. If you took it condescendingly, that's on you and wasn't my intention.

Todd

 

[deerslayer88]

Okay I will bite. First and foremost technically jackrabbits and coyotes are a all year hunt and you can shoot them with anything. So that in of itself is a defense to anything the hill billy warden on the Henry's who hasn't kept up on the current laws and rules. As for the officer's statement above, I hate to dog on officers as I do respect what you do but why does every officer have a god complex where they suddenly know more then a lawyer?

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

 

[Vanilla]

No, you stated the law incorrectly, got called out on it, then had to backtrack and try to play it off like everyone is the one with a problem and not you.

But carry on telling us how dumb we are and how smart you are. Maybe you can even point us to your YouTube page where you film yourself yelling at cops.

 

[just_a_hunter]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-15 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]Well, I can't argue with that. I like to have intelligent conversation. I don't know how I went from calling people dumb (even though I've stated several times I don't think most of the people reading this are dumb) to having a YouTube page where I yell at cops..... I'm learning a lot of stuff about myself... Any other one sided facts you want to express that your opinions told you to write? You do know there is a difference between ignorant and dumb, right?... One means you're stupid the other means you ignore things sometimes... I'm not going to apologize for thinking my fellow sportsmen shouldn't ignore things that pertain to the 2nd amendment...

Todd

 

[eelgrass]

If legal hunting time ends at 7:21 pm, is it legal to shoot a crippled elk at 10:54 pm?

Or have we already covered that?

Eel

Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one you probably will never need one again.

 

[why]

I pack all the time fukm they will take out of my cold dead hands .

 

[rutnbuck]

Good question! When you find out let me know!! The proc dose not say anything about coyote hunting! However it dose allow swamp rats take ducks and upland hunters take game. I have tried to find out so I could go take coyotes with the .223 It is legal to keep them in your vehicle where as it is considered your domain! Might just have to shoot out of the window! And stay on the road! Rutnbuck