Ponzi...I Mean Points System Chat

[chrisamx]

Not much outrage regarding points system yet this year.

 

[Snoopdogg]

Not from me, I supported it from way back so I'm not gonna pull a Wyoming and change sh*t after everyone has committed.

Nobody will ever be completely happy. I supported what option I felt was best way back when.

 

[highsierra]

No problem with it here. Re-starting with 0-points for deer this year yet, somehow I KNOW I will still have 2 CA deer tags and ample opportunity to spend quality time in the outdoors trying to fill them with friends and family....all while still building points and increasing my chances for drawing a more desireable hunt in the future. I'm not aware of another state's system that allows the same (building points while still having possibility TWO tags to hunt with).

 

[ElmerFudd]

Points are fine for hunts that roll over in a reasonable amount of time, like most CA deer hunts. They are unfair for hunts that point levels over due to old age and death, locking out most for any chance at points tags until they outlive those ahead of them. Sheep and elk should probably be 100% random or bonus in CA. But odds are you won't draw no matter the system.

 

[BradA]

No problem with it here. Re-starting with 0-points for deer this year yet, somehow I KNOW I will still have 2 CA deer tags and ample opportunity to spend quality time in the outdoors trying to fill them with friends and family....all while still building points and increasing my chances for drawing a more desireable hunt in the future. I'm not aware of another state's system that allows the same (building points while still having a tag to hunt with).

Colorado, Wyoming, montana

 

[highsierra]

Colorado, Wyoming, montana

I must be missing something....You are telling me that you can put in for a specific hunt/tag in those states, not draw the hunt/tag AND still obtain TWO other buck tags to hunt with that same year AND still bank a point for future draws?

 

[Rie bread]

I must be misinformed then....You are telling me that you can put in for a specific hunt/tag in those states, not draw the hunt/tag and thus gain a point, yet still obtain a mule deer tag and hunt that same year?

Yep Montana lets you buy a point and use it even before the draw

 

[highsierra]

Yep Montana lets you buy a point and use it even before the draw

If its used, you would have a tag....and then be left without a point, right? I think we may have our wires crossesd. I just edited the wording of my original post to be more clear.

 

[BradA]

I must be missing something....You are telling me that you can put in for a specific hunt/tag in those states, not draw the hunt/tag AND still obtain TWO other buck tags to hunt with that same year AND still bank a point for future draws?

In any of those states you can apply and draw a unit or general tag similar to California while still gaining a point for the following year, but drawing two deer tags that’s a different story and honestly I don’t really think California should offer it as our deer herd is struggling.

 

[RookieWYhntr]

Can you apply for points only in CA w/o buying a hunting license? If not, this should be available. Doesn't make sense to spend almost $100 for a point as a resident. Crazy really.

 

[highsierra]

In any of those states you can apply and draw a unit or general tag similar to California while still gaining a point for the following year, but drawing two deer tags that’s a different story and honestly I don’t really think California should offer it as our deer herd is struggling.

You've captured my interest...so in the states you mentioned you could...
-apply
-then draw/obtain a tag and go hunting
-and then still purchase and bank a point for the next year?

If you purchased a point one year, wouldnt it be automatically applied the next year? If so, then you would be without that point, but could purchase another...right? If that's the case you essentially are just replacing the same 1 point over and over then and NOT accumulating numerous points like we can do here in CA.

My head is still struggling with this one...sorry!

 

[highsierra]

Can you apply for points only in CA w/o buying a hunting license? If not, this should be available. Doesn't make sense to spend almost $100 for a point as a resident. Crazy really.

do you mean "nonresident" ?

 

[RookieWYhntr]

No, resident. I think you have to buy your hunting license and apply for a points only which is basically buying a tag. Add those up and it's a lot more than buying a point say in WY as a non resident.

Example: I broke my leg and can't hunt this year but I want to continue to accumulate my points. To do so I would have to buy my hunting license and deer tag. My leg isn't broken but just using this as an example...

 

[highsierra]

Yep Montana lets you buy a point and use it even before the draw

I think the disconnect for me regarding the Montana system is that, if I recall correctly, there is essentially a hybrid/dual system in place. Doesnt their system allow you to obtain BONUS points for general unit deer tags, but also purchase or earn PREFERENCE points for limited entry buck tags? And as I once understood it, you had to first draw a general tag before being able to then put in and obtain a limited entry tag for some special hunt.

I have been outta the Montana game for probably around 10 years and have little first hand knowledge of their current system. Nevertheless, to circle back to my original reply to this thread, I think its fairly clear that we are comparing apples to oranges regarding this comparison between MT & CA.

 

[BradA]

You've captured my interest...so in the states you mentioned you could...
-apply
-then draw/obtain a tag and go hunting
-and then still purchase and bank a point for the next year?

If you purchased a point one year, wouldnt it be automatically applied the next year? If so, then you would be without that point, but could purchase another...right? If that's the case you essentially are just replacing the same 1 point over and over then and NOT accumulating numerous points like we can do here in CA.

My head is still struggling with this one...sorry!

In those states you can apply, draw a tag while gaining a point that is correct. No it isn’t automatic applied the next year.

 

[highsierra]

No, resident. I think you have to buy your hunting license and apply for a points only which is basically buying a tag. Add those up and it's a lot more than buying a point say in WY as a non resident.

Example: I broke my leg and can't hunt this year but I want to continue to accumulate my points. To do so I would have to buy my hunting license and deer tag. My leg isn't broken but just using this as an example...

gotcha...I thought you were asking the original question from the perspective of a non-resident where the fees would be substantially higher. No matter....what you are saying is correct, you do have to purchase a hunting license first in order to apply for a specific hunt OR a preference point.

As a hunter that does not solely focus on big game (I have been known to hunt pigs, turkeys, dove, quail, pheasants, ducks, coyotes, squirrels, rabbits, etc.) I still find value in purchasing a CA hunting license each and every year. I can see how it might seem expesive to those that may not partake in the harvesting of species other than those conssidered "big-game" where preference points are offered.

 

[highsierra]

In those states you can apply, draw a tag while gaining a point that is correct. No it isn’t automatic applied the next year.

Not automatically applied? So you get the option whether or not to apply your "banked" points each year? That kinda interesting. Is this for BONUS points or PREFERENCE points? I think I recently heard ol Randy Newberg explaining that MT's system involves both.

I should probably rewatch this:

 

[Rie bread]

Non residents can purchase a “preference point” going into a draw which gets you the normal/general deer tag. Like an A,B, or D zone. ( zero points has a slightly higher chance to draw lol)
Then you can purchase a “bonus point” when applying for ahead LE draw. Like an x zone.

Then there are otc deer b licensed so yes can get two tags

 

[highsierra]

Non residents can purchase a “preference point” going into a draw which gets you the normal/general deer tag. Like an A,B, or D zone. ( zero points has a slightly higher chance to draw lol)
Then you can purchase a “bonus point” when applying for ahead LE draw. Like an x zone.

Then there are otc deer b licensed so yes can get two tags

Deer b tags are for doe hunts…correct?

 

[Rie bread]

Deer b tags are for doe hunts…correct?

They are yes. Only a handful deer b tags are either sex whitetail.

I guess the similarity between California and Montana is that you can put in for and LE tag not draw and still get a “ general” tag and go deer hunting

 

[chrisamx]

Not from me, I supported it from way back so I'm not gonna pull a Wyoming and change sh*t after everyone has committed.

Nobody will ever be completely happy. I supported what option I felt was best way back when.

It cant possibly be the best way for people who have, say 15, 16, 17, 18 ,19, 20 21 points for sheep and elk, but will never see max points and effectively have zero points for those draws.

Yeah, guess we are committed I guess, committed to supporting max points holders, who I might add are probably going to die before drawing a sheep tag or an elk tag.

 

[highsierra]

It cant possibly be the best way for people who have, say 15, 16, 17, 18 ,19, 20 21 points for sheep and elk, but will never see max points and effectively have zero points for those draws.

Yeah, guess we are committed I guess, committed to supporting max points holders, who I might add are probably going to die before drawing a sheep tag or an elk tag.

True....to be "guaranteed" a tag in the preference point drawing you gotta outlive people with the same number of points or more than you. But dont forget the "random drawing" winners....which in CA is a SIGNIFICANT portion of those successful. in drawing a desert bighorn sheep tag.

If the proposed numbers published in the digest this year hold up after the upcoming commission meeting, out of the 21 sheep tags up for grabs, TWELVE will be awarded to max point holders in the pref. points draw and NINE will be awarded in the random drawing.

 

[chrisamx]

True....to be "guaranteed" a tag in the preference point drawing you gotta outlive people with the same number of points or more than you. But dont forget the "random drawing" winners....which in CA is a SIGNIFICANT portion of those successful. in drawing a desert bighorn sheep tag.

If the proposed numbers published in the digest this year hold up after the upcoming commission meeting, out of the 21 sheep tags up for grabs, TWELVE will be awarded to max point holders in the pref. points draw and NINE will be awarded in the random drawing.

9 random, of which max point holders get to draw in too. total last years applicants: 20,341

 

[ElmerFudd]

Most people are not going to draw a desert sheep tag, no matter the system. Maybe people who were 16 or a bit older when the points system started will get good odds by the time they are drawing Social Security if the system doesn't change. But realistically, if you apply every year in every state with desert bighorn tags for 50 consecutive years, odds are like 1:4 you will draw a tag. A Nevada resident would probably draw in a lifetime, but that might be the only exception. Might as well make the sheep draw completely random and once in a lifetime as there can be no expectation of drawing ever.

 

[Rie bread]

Personally, I think any draw system that has a random element to it makes point buying a bit silly and not necessary. But I understand the strategy behind it in some sense