Preference points as a NR

[goforbroke]

Is it still a good idea to build points as a NR? I know, Huntin fool and many others say 'APPLY apply apply'. But Wyoming is looking at reducing tags to NR., Arizona is trying to make it so random draw has a chance. States that do have an established system, why start now? We are so far behind in the point system.

My son is 12 now with zero points. I've built points in 6 states the last 10 years. I'm still not sniffing a premium tag as a NR in those states. I try to think I need to apply for him now, but by the time I pay preference points and app fees in 6 states for 2 of us, I might as well go on a guided hunt or buy a landowner tag every other year! If i do apply, what are the odds that he ever draws? 0.1%?

I bet more states change and allot more tags in a random draw in coming years as more and more people drop out of the bonus point (donation to fish and game) pool. 10 years ago I hated Idaho's system, now it's the only one I feel like I have a chance. too bad they have wolves.

 

[WapitiBob]

Hard to draw a tag when everyone is waiting on the same few "premium" hunts.

 

[lostinOregon]

I still believe there are some great hunts out there if you do your research. If you follow the masses you will have nothing but regret and a high credit card bill. Most just apply without really having a plan. I know some that have waited a lifetime for a tag and were disappointed in the results. You need to have a plan, have realistic expectations and go have fun.

If you are waiting for San Juan elk, paunsagaunt and Henries deer, the strip and all of those apply, apply, apply folks tell you to apply for you are wasting your time.

I have a mix of hunts that I apply or and plan 5 years in advance. I know it sounds crazy but I have more hunts a year than I can go on each fall. Learn some general areas like CO elk, MT and ID deer, sprinkle in a CO deer and WY antelope hunt that you can draw every 2 to 3 years and a few draws that are reasonable and you have the framework for some busy falls. The time with your son will not be remembered by the score of the animals.

Rich

 

[marburg]

Shhhh don't alert the lemmings.....

 

[Have2Hunt]

I'm in the same boat, have a bunch of points in a bunch of states, (476 according to my spreadsheet)and my youngest will be starting hunting this year. As was said have a plan, understand the odds & do the math. Hard to justify starting the points game at the bottom, because if history shows us anything it is that the non-resident will likely get the rug jerked out from under them before they get to the top.

 

[Z]

Just about any area in any state can produce antlers comparable to those from those primo units. You don't have to hunt the Henries or the Strip to shoot a monster muley as people shoot monsters in normal units every year. It will take a lot of work but it can be done.

Luck doesn't hurt either! My first year, as a non-er in Nv, I drew a great muley tag and antelope tag. I say great because the areas weren't known for producing big specimens but guess what I saw with hard work and dedication, big specimens.

Also be willing to switch it up. Yeah, rifle tags in a unit might take you a lifetime to draw but what if you could hunt it with a bow every other year?

 

[nontypical]

If you're as lucky as me, you won't draw Idaho either...

 

[cmbbulldog]

I started building points about 7, 8 years ago... and I would add a new state each year or so. The past 2-3 years, I have drawn high quality tags each year. I have elk hunts lined up for the next 3 years in 3 different states, and all should be quality experiences. I will sprinkle in a deer tag or 2, maybe an extra elk tag, an antelope tag somewhere.... and who knows I could get lucky and draw a primo tag somewhere.

As others have said, start with a plan. Once you get to the 5 year mark, there are many tags you can draw across the west that will get you access to high quality tags. I know I will have at least one high quality hunt basically going forward at this point. Im only 32.... so I started pretty early and added states as I could afford it.

There are a ton of good opportunity type hunts you can apply for every year in addition to building points. NM you always have a equal chance.... last year I was going to draw a early archery hunt in AZ, so I put in for a hard to draw NM elk tag, first rifle.... got lucky and drew.... ended up with 2 great elk hunts... You can do WY general hunt every year on the special tag, or every other year on the regular tag.... plenty of good deer hunts in CO you can draw with a point or 2. archery hunt in AZ every year for deer in the rut in Dec/Jan, and pick up a javelina tag... plenty of WY antelope options you can draw with a point or 2. This doesn't include any OTC tags in CO or ID....point is, you can sprinkle in "opportunity" type hunts (that are what you make of them) every year while you build points.

 

[Zim]

>I'm in the same boat, have
>a bunch of points in
>a bunch of states, (476
>according to my spreadsheet)and my
>youngest will be starting hunting
>this year. As was said
>have a plan, understand the
>odds & do the math.
>Hard to justify starting the
>points game at the bottom,
>because if history shows us
>anything it is that the
>non-resident will likely get the
>rug jerked out from under
>them before they get to
>the top.

Haha. Dam, dude, You have a few more than me! I've been applying for 20 years and drawn many great tags. Several great hunts I know I'll get next few years. But I watch nonresident climate and bend-over legislation closely to cash those points before rug yanked. Things have changed over the years. For the OP and other green horns I'd still apply in some states, but there are more I'd now steer completely clear of due to their dismal odds not being a good return-on-investment if you're on ground level.........Oregon everything, Utah everything, Maine moose, New Hampshire moose, Wyoming moose & sheep. These are all very bad values now.

Also, for newbies, even if they are young, it's a much better value to work on 3-5 point mid-tier hunts long term, rather than wait for premier units. Better to learn a unit by being able to hunt it multiple times. That is even my strategy now after I cash 15-20 points for a hunt.


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

 

[Blank]

Like several others have posted - As long as there is a random draw chance, I believe that the accumulation of points is worthwhile. Do not, however, think you are gonna get one of those 100:1 or even 1000:1 tags you read about in the magazines. Look to use the points you accumulate to hunt every 5 years or so on mid-level quality hunts.

 

[goforbroke]

Thanks for the posts. I guess as long as I remember that he may not get premium, but a good tag is possible. The fun is the hunt, not the trophy. Points get expensive. I'll do the youth friendly states for now.

 

[sagebrush]

I live in AZ now but started hunting here as a non-resident. OTC bow tags for deer are a great opportunity for the non-resident. As long as you are buying a license, you might as well put in the draw. Only 10% of the tags are allowed for non-residents, so if you apply the best known units, you most likely will not draw. You can draw some good deer and elk tags outside of those handful of "premium" units. I still think AZ is a worthwhile state for the non-resident applicant.

 

[nochawk]

If you don't apply you can not draw, Last year I drew a LE any weapon deer on San Juan Elk Ridge with only 2 points, have drawn Nevada deer with 3 points and last year drew a Nevada antelope with 5 points, Drew AZ archery elk with 3 points. All NR tags...
also drew a LE Nebo LE any weapon Elk tag at the sportsmans expo
in SLC
On the other hand have had 11-18 points for elk, moose, in WY, NV, and Ut and don't see the light for ever drawing a tag as a NR... and lets not mention Sheep...
Do I really think I will draw a antelope tag in New Mexico? or a Valle Caldera or Verdy (sp) elk tag? nope, been trying for a Ibex for over 20 years figuring I will wear then down and they will let me ( not working)..

With Wyoming going to $75 for moose and $100 for sheep points I really should drop them, but have too many points now to get out.. Just look at it as a donation to conservation and I sleep better.

 

[Zeke]

1-People will continue to apply, or build points, even when it makes near ZERO sense to do so.

2-All States will eventually or continue to cheapen points!

3-There's way more demand than resource available and some guys simply will NOT get the tags they want regardless of their dedication.

4-Basically all States look at the NR hunter for the MONEY only! There's no sense of fair play in any State for the NR hunter.

5-Sad but true!

Zeke

 

[Zim]

>1-People will continue to apply, or
>build points, even when it
>makes near ZERO sense to
>do so.
>
>2-All States will eventually or continue
>to cheapen points!
>
>3-There's way more demand than resource
>available and some guys simply
>will NOT get the tags
>they want regardless of their
>dedication.
>
>4-Basically all States look at the
>NR hunter for the MONEY
>only! There's no sense of
>fair play in any State
>for the NR hunter.
>
>5-Sad but true!
>
>Zeke

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All five of these things are very much true, and anybody wanting to get in the game should know these.


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

 

[hank4elk]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-15 AT 06:41PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-15 AT 06:34?PM (MST)

Yup!! And buy lotto....
actually drawing one of those tags is better odds.

I'm out of the pt game,and out of state hunting.I had great thing and missed early yrs and you can never catch up. Had points in AZ, UT. 8 when 12 was tops.Only ever drew 3 UT gen deer tags in 12 yrs. Never put in for a #1 Prem. hunt either.

Have buddies that live in Alpine,AZ and cringe when I hear them say they have 16 pts and maybe this yr...

 

[Lien2]

I've always thought it made sense to get points no matter what for future hunts and have for years.
But I am realizing it's not all roses either.

 

[Zim]

>I've always thought it made sense
>to get points no matter
>what for future hunts and
>have for years.
>But I am realizing it's not
>all roses either.

Ya some states figured this out and morphed their lotteries into the business of selling opportunities to NOT HUNT. Free money. Such as Oregon, Utah, Wyoming sheep & moose. At the same time they fell in love with auction tags.

Things sure have changed since I began applying 20 years ago.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

 

[Zeke]

My first big NR tag was drawn in 1976.
You're right, Zim, at the amount of "change" we've seen over the years.
Some good changes, most bad but one thing is certain; draw odds are a whole bunch worse and States have figured out how to keep it that way while collecting money from us all!
Remember, most guys will NEVER draw that special tag that we all dream about!
Too many people, too few critters, too many pyramid schemes.
Zeke

 

[sageadvice]

There was a thread the other Day that really hit home with me, a guy with a ton of NR points wanted advice on Units in Utah. He thought maybe, if i remembered correctly, San Jaun Archery but another guy posted that there were no points tags for NR's to be drawn for that unit. Not one lousy archery tag there for a non-resident with a bucket of points? Wow!

I've winded way down on my outa state hunts anyway. I have a few points still for Wyoming and Nevada but the truth is, i'm not sure i'll be able to go when the time comes.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[Robiland]

You know, I look at it as if you want to play the game you have to pay. It SUCKS, but thats the way it is. I am from Utah. I have 10 bear points, 13 moose points, 10 deer points. I have drawn 2 LE elk tags in Utah.
I started applying 8-9 years ago in other states and added 1 state every few years as money was available. I drew a great tag last year for elk in WY, and now I have 8 deer points, 3 antelope points (drawn 2 tags). I have 3 points in Nevada and have drawn a great lope tag with 1 point (LUCK). I have 8 points in Col for deer and elk, 2 points for everything in AZ.

Its getting expensive but I have an addiction. But you cant hunt if you dont apply. Well, I guess if youre rich, you can just buy your way to the front of the line every year.

 

[jester]

Won't hurt ..but a piece of mind.
Honestly it's to late for Co..Wy..Ut primo hunts.
If now I would find a gen area you could draw
every other and learn it ..it could be your honey hole..
do that in 3 states and you could eat venison and elk every
year!
Jester

 

[Utah400Elk]

I used my Utah elk point and my Wyoming elk points. Two great hunts! I have a bucket full of AZ elk points (17 but I hope it goes to 2 after the draw this year) and a bucket full (15 CO elk points). Once I am done with those two I will try for cow hunts for fun and Wyoming general tag every few years. If I were starting now...CO deer points would be the only one I would go for. There are plenty of great hunts that can be had for 5-7 points. I already had one great hunt in CO with 5 points. It is a game, but it can be won if you know how to navigate all the hoops.

 

[orion23]

Good luck drawing a premium tag in idaho as a NR... your odds are about that 1% your were talking about.

i build a lot of points around the west too, my problem is i want the best hunts and sounds like you do too. You can draw the middle of the road tags and your son can too (in time) and if you do research a lot of the states you can harvest great animals in those units. I think it keeps options open by having points if you can afford it. i see your point about building with 2 people, that could get expensive and im not at that point yet. good luck.

Travis