Second draw results

I'd plan on a week from Monday. Though I think a lot of people will be looking and hoping next Friday.
 
Given IDFG's other draw results this year I would say give it at least a week longer than you expect to wait. Seems they have been slow with all draw results this year. Good luck everyone
 
Regardless of the date of results...more then likely you can expect some sort of drama with it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-14 AT 06:50PM (MST)[p]So true.

Idaho has been a cluster fark this year.

Our local sports shop owner told me that for the #2130 unit 5 either sex elk tag--- which had 400 tags ...every (nine) and ten year old kid but one drew a tag for that controlled use hunt! That obviously includes all of the dads on the buddy tag system.
F*cking crazy.

My neighbors ten year old drew that tag as well.
I wouldn't have believed it, but it sure appears that Idaho rigged the system this year for young hunters in that hunt and likely others.
 
I have been told more than once that if you want to draw a controlled hunt put in with a first time youth that it gets pref no proof but just might be something to it. it worked for me yrs ago and never drew an elk tag since
 
I have 5 kids and only 1 of them have ever drawn a tag the first year they put in. I don't think age matters.
 
Every nine and ten year old that applied for the #2130 hunt but one was drawn.
I'd bet the odds of that are staggering!
That is what I was told from a solid source.
I have been blessed with great draw results over the years; Idaho has one of the better systems, but I think the system was manipulated this year.
 
>Every nine and ten year old
>that applied for the #2130
>hunt but one was drawn.
>
>I'd bet the odds of that
>are staggering!
>That is what I was told
>from a solid source.
>I have been blessed with great
>draw results over the years;
>Idaho has one of the
>better systems, but I think
>the system was manipulated this
>year.


Ill bet you wouldnt be saying that Idaho has one of the better systems if you were one of the poor sapps who havent drawn a tag in 15 or 20 years. I have been lucky enough to draw one single tag which is better than some! I think the lottery is the way to go though, just like how they have it. It does get frustrating though when you see people drawing practically ever other year and then there is the poor sapp who cant draw a tag to save his life.
 
>Ill bet you wouldnt be saying
>that Idaho has one of
>the better systems if you
>were one of the poor
>sapps who havent drawn a
>tag in 15 or 20
>years. I have been lucky
>enough to draw one single
>tag which is better than
>some! I think the lottery
>is the way to go
>though, just like how they
>have it. It does get
>frustrating though when you see
>people drawing practically ever other
>year and then there is
>the poor sapp who cant
>draw a tag to save
>his life.

Well, of course I'd be disappointed, but the system has worked for me. And I've been willing to forego non oil tags for many years.
I think the no-points equal footing system is excellent.

I drew oil tags in '09, 11, and 12. crazy luck!
My wife drew in 09 as well.
Obviously I love Idaho's system, but doing something behind the backs of those putting in the system (9-10 year old preference) WITHOUT TELLING PEOPLE IS A PROBLEM. Case in point hunt #2130.
 
Why would f&g want to give jr's and for that matter sr's any advantage in draw there tag fee's are so much lower, that doesn't seem logical. 2130 draw rate was 60% same as last year how many of those little devil's got tag's? MM forums are starting to sound like AARP rants!
 
"Our local sports shop owner told me that for the #2130 unit 5 either sex elk tag--- which had 400 tags ...every (nine) and ten year old kid but one drew a tag for that controlled use hunt! "

Broomd, how exactly did the local sports shop owner get that information? Unless he knows the license number for every 9 and 10 year old how would know who drew a tag?
 
>"Our local sports shop owner told
>me that for the #2130
>unit 5 either sex elk
>tag--- which had 400 tags
>...every (nine) and ten year
>old kid but one drew
>a tag for that controlled
>use hunt! "
>
>Broomd, how exactly did the local
>sports shop owner get that
>information? Unless he knows
>the license number for every
>9 and 10 year old
>how would know who drew
>a tag?

I don't know how he knew, he just smiled when I asked and said that Idaho had a "glitch" in the system to allow it to happen.
I have zero reason to make this up, nor does he. Overall I like idaho's draw system.

My ten year old neighbor who drew his 2130 tag is here now stacking wood for me for a few bucks. The first thing he said to me this morning when he got here was that all (nine) and ten year olds drew his tag for elk.

It is no surprise here in unit 5.
 
if you think ID draw is completely random you have not looked at the draws. ID states that non res is capped at a max of 10% of the available tags...please explain to me how magically a unit with 200 tags has 500 apps and only 30 of them are non resident and somehow 11 of them are drawn!! come on...this is just 1 example of many!! and its every year! if they are messing with this what else is being messed with
 
I don't understand your problem with your example. If there were 500 application for 200 tags, then 40% of the applicants drew (200/500=.4). The expected number of NR that should draw is 40% of of 30 which = 12. In your example, 11 drew, which is pretty dang close to 12! The cap only means no more than 20 NR could draw that hunt.
 
When did this become the Jerry Springer forum? So much drama!

Me, I'm excited because its August and we have little or no wildfire burning up our wintering grounds for once. Late summer rains are great to help Deer and Elk get into winter healthy. Hey some good news!!!

I'm going to go up into the Boulder and White Clouds to enjoy what Idaho has to offer this weekend instead of sitting at home and stewing over all the negatives.
 
Ever fish crater lk this time of year? I've killed them at that inlet below China wall on labor day weekend. Love white clouds this time of year
 
Nothing here. I guess I used up all my luck drawing Mountain Goat. I'm fine with that. Good hunting an congrats to those who drew against surprisingly long odds.
 
Let the complaining begin - and I will start it. Second Draw Antelope, Non-Resident, total odds at drawing a tag 0.017857 (1.7%) chance. Which also means that essentially 99% of the remaining antelope tags went to residents. Awful... Plain Awful... And "Non-Resident quotas" are not supposed to apply on the second draw? Right!!!! On top of that only 17 remaining deer tags went to Non-Residents. Not that anyone cares, but my Non-Resident money for applications will never again be spent in Idaho - one of the only western states that I will not be applying for next year. And not because I didn't draw - I normally don't draw in the majority of the Western States I apply for - but because my chances are so extremely slim and in the end I don't even have a bonus/preference point to show for it. I know, I know.... I've heard just about every argument in favor of Idaho's system, but I don't like it. Never have. Never will.
 
LOL ^^

Typically the people that don't like our system are the people that simply don't understand it. Whether it be the cap, our trophy odds or not realizing that we have the 2nd best OTC opportunity behind only Montana.
 
>Let the complaining begin - and
>I will start it.
>Second Draw Antelope, Non-Resident, total
>odds at drawing a tag
>0.017857 (1.7%) chance. Which also
>means that essentially 99% of
>the remaining antelope tags went
>to residents. Awful... Plain
>Awful... And "Non-Resident quotas" are
>not supposed to apply on
>the second draw? Right!!!! On
>top of that only 17
>remaining deer tags went to
>Non-Residents. Not that anyone
>cares, but my Non-Resident money
>for applications will never again
>be spent in Idaho -
>one of the only western
>states that I will not
>be applying for next year.
>And not because I didn't
>draw - I normally don't
>draw in the majority of
>the Western States I apply
>for - but because my
>chances are so extremely slim
>and in the end I
>don't even have a bonus/preference
>point to show for it.
> I know, I know....
>I've heard just about every
>argument in favor of Idaho's
>system, but I don't like
>it. Never have.
>Never will.


I don't like it either. As a resident I applied for 2nd draw elk in a unit with 3 tags available. FG gave 33.33% of those tags to nonresidents? Fargin Bastages
 
i actually dont like the system either but its because i have terrible luck. i would prefer to have a NV type but we've all had this debate before.

Travis
 
That's exactly my point (and I know this has been addressed before). You are talking about a single controlled hunt unit when you said 33.33% of the tags were drawn by non-residents. If the non-resident quota of not more than 1 tag in a unit with 10 or fewer permits applied in the second draw then the fact that non-residents drew 1 tag (1/3 is 33.33%) then it makes sense. Presumably, and technically, non-residents could have drawn ALL three of the tags in the unit you applied for in the second draw, right? After all, the 1 permit (and up to 10%) rule does not apply.

The problem is - in my humble opinion - is that when residents like you try to justify Idaho's system (or at least try to poke holes in non-resident arguments)you most often use the same example that you used. You pick a particular area and show that 33.33% of the tags went to non-residents, seemingly forgetting that my draw odds calculated in my earlier post were based on the total tags for the species and not a particular hunt. As you know, hopefully, non-residents cannot draw more than 10% of the tags for a particular species as well. Again, I understand that the non-resident cap is not supposed to apply in the second draw... I get that, but I only bring this point up to share my opinion as to why I think Idaho is simply not worth MY money (I didn't say your money).

I also agree with the fact that there a lot of OTC opportunities in Idaho. Great. Take advantage of them. I would if I was a resident. But when you are used to Nevada hunts (and non-residents have great system here in Nevada as a side note) I'll leave those hunts to you guys.
 
>Does Nevada offer OTC hunts for
>NR'S if you don't draw
>on the prefernce point hunts?
>Just curious..

do you not know or are you trying to be "funny". they do not have OTC hunts if you really didnt know. Im just talking about the controlled hunt part. i like that part better, not the whole system. Idaho could adopt the same controlled hunt system, tho expensive, i like it better. Just my opinion.


Travis
 
Not trying to be funny, just clarifying a point. Idaho is a better system in the fact that you can hunt even if you don't draw a controlled hunt. I'm always guaranteed hunting big game, either deer or elk,and have at least a chance at filling the freezer. A controlled hunt tag is just icing on the cake! I have a hard time listening to people complain about Idaho's system, when if they choose to put in fot the controlled hunt a spend the money to buy the hunting liscense, that they won't just buy a tag and come and hunt anyway. I would venture a guess that the majority of the so-called "HUNTERS" have never stepped foot in the state. I can truly state that if you do you're homework, there is some awesome hunting OTC tag ares to be had, but tha's just my BIASED opinion.Trust me i could care less if any NRS come to Idaho, but when i hear the sad stories,and pissin and moanin , it makes me wander what this hunting generation is comming too!! I'm sure the same people will be cryin the same sad song next year LOL...
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-14 AT 07:14PM (MST)[p]Ok point taken, i agree 100% with everything that you said there. I would just like to see our controlled hunts only have a squared point bonus system with longer waits like nevada. maybe not 5-10 years like nevada but longer than 1. I understand that some people like the odds especially when they draw some tags, i just happen to be one of the guys that rarely does and when i do they arent the blue chip tags either.

... and i really dont complain about our system here, i would just prefer it be different. it was brought up so i threw in my 2 cents.

ok, good talk, lets not argue. ha.

Travis
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-14 AT 08:01PM (MST)[p]>Let the complaining begin - and
>I will start it.
>Second Draw Antelope, Non-Resident, total
>odds at drawing a tag
>0.017857 (1.7%) chance. Which also
>means that essentially 99% of
>the remaining antelope tags went
>to residents. Awful... Plain
>Awful... And "Non-Resident quotas" are
>not supposed to apply on
>the second draw? Right!!!! On
>top of that only 17
>remaining deer tags went to
>Non-Residents. Not that anyone
>cares, but my Non-Resident money
>for applications will never again
>be spent in Idaho -
>one of the only western
>states that I will not
>be applying for next year.
>And not because I didn't
>draw - I normally don't
>draw in the majority of
>the Western States I apply
>for - but because my
>chances are so extremely slim
>and in the end I
>don't even have a bonus/preference
>point to show for it.
> I know, I know....
>I've heard just about every
>argument in favor of Idaho's
>system, but I don't like
>it. Never have.
>Never will.

2nd draw antelope draw odds for residents on all tags 0.014535, thats a 1.4% chance. Draw odds are horrible for everybody in the second draw. If you are going to apply for a desirable tag in the second draw look at it as a lottery ticket because that is really all it is. For example the draw odds on the 9 leftover unit 42 pronghorn tags alone were .9% total for anybody. Got that? Less than 1% lets look at some desirable deer tags for more examples. If you combine the 5 total tags for unit 40 and 45 deer, any applicant whether resident or non resident had a less than .3% chance. Not less than 3% less than 3/10ths%. Let me spell that out for you, less than three tenths of a single percentage point or in even simpler terms that maybe your simple mind will understand less than 3 of every 1000 applicants will draw a tag. I do not think I can put it any more clearly, you have much closer to a 0% chance than a 1% chance at a sought after deer tag, and for a good antelope tag you have closer to 0% than to 2% chance at drawing. I probably have a better chance of being struck by lightning than you do of drawing a tag in Idaho's second draw.

For clarification purposes this is not a blast on Idaho's draw it is simply a statement of fact and a dose of reality for you all. Look at it this way if roughly 80% of people don't draw in the first go 'round, and you add the people on waiting period, as well as trophy species applicants you actually have almost the same amount of demand for maybe 1% of the tags available in the 1st draw. It is almost unreasonable to even believe you have a snowballs chance in hell, but that is exactly what it is a big swing at a very small chance which is why most of us will play each year.
 
Put 3 of us in for 6 hunts. Drew one tag, so not too unhappy. That's the third year in a row for a 2nd draw tag.
 
I drew my 2nd chance deer last year. My brother drew the late unit 30 rifl elk hunt. It is going to be a fun fall!
 
I love it when people complain about draw odd of the second.
Did you not know of the past few years of nonres odds before you applied?

Justin
 
Kids got extra doe tags for 36ax as second choice. Nothing for me and wife. I thought there was no nonresident cap on second draw.between first and second draw and trophy draw out over 150$ more exciting than scratches!
 
Not sure where you all live but I live in the best state I know. As far as hunting tags, it wasn't my year, no complaining. I've drawn good tags before and I'm sure I will again. I have so many options for fun outdoors, every year. I'll never get ?em all done. Good luck.
 
I agree, Idaho is awesome! You all need to live in Oregon like I did for a while and then you'll realize this is an awesome hunting state! The general deer tag here is better than the best deer tag in Oregon (12+ years to draw)
 
Idaho is the best.

I agree that most NR that complain about the Idaho drawing system simply do not understand how it works or the advantages it offers. NR have the same drawing odds as the residents until the 10% cap is met. In many units the number of tags available puts NR on the same level as residents.

2nd drawing is never more than a shot in the dark, but you can't draw if you don't try. Folks just need to understand that these are leftovers and unpurchased tags, it is not a full on first choice drawing, and there are more people applying for fewer tags.

As for this 2nd draw specifically just looking at deer, overall 9.3% of residents drew and 3.5% of NR drew a tag. At first it would appear that the NR were hindered somehow even though there is no 10% cap in the 2nd draw. However, there are many hunts that NR didn't apply in that many residents did, these are primarily extra-doe or antlerless tags. If you look only at the antlered hunts then 1% of residents drew a tag while 2.5% of NR drew a tag. 585 out of 670 NR applied for the antlered deer tags. So when you consider that only the remaining 85 (12.6% of total apps) NR applied for the antlerless tags that 4326 residents (41% of total apps) applied for suddenly it makes sense that overall more residents were drawn than NR.

Idaho has a great system, I wouldn't change anything. I also do not draw many tags having limited myself to the trophy draws for the last 4 years. Before that I did draw several cow elk tags and extra doe tags. I even drew a couple of those in the second draw. I've never drawn an antlered tag and it is due to nothing more than bad luck and statistics. I look forward to and plan for the OTC hunts every year and look at the controlled hunts as a great bonus if I luck into one.

The only thing about Idaho?s draw system that a NR could reasonably complain about is the requirement to buy the hunting license to put in. If you are planning to hunt OTC if you don't draw, then it isn't a hardship. It only hurts those who only plan to hunt if they draw. Something for the NR to consider, if Idaho did offer points to NR and designated 10% of tags to NR or removed the license purchase requirement the odds would go down. More NR would apply because it would be cheaper and if they don't draw they at least get a mystical and revered point.
 
I didn't draw my elk tag in the second draw dang! Being a Non resident I both like and dislike the draw system. I like it because the odds tend to be a little better. I dislike it because you cannot plan if you are going to draw, being a non resident is about planning ahead for hunts and it is nearly impossible to plan if you are going to draw anything. That being said I hope that they do not change it because it is a unique system. Carry on my friends and root for my partner and I we drew some deer tags in Idaho, it will be my first time hunting mule deer in November and we are pumped!
 
yahoo, drew one of the late bull elk tags in the 2nd drawing, that will go nicely with the rifle Antelope tag I drew this year too. Don't worry though the draw isn't rigged just because I have to pay non-res fees but am considered a resident for the draw (lifetime license) I'm just lucky that's all!!
 
>What unit ElkManDan? I drew late
>season unit 30.

got the 51 tag. If I remember right there was someone else on here that drew this tag as well. Maybe I'll see them on the mountain.
 
I'm a non-resident and I don't necessarily agree with the statement that we have the same draw results as resi's in nearly every hunt. I study this stuff pretty good and there are very few units that the non-resident cap isn't met. Once it's met, if you are a non-resi, you are screwed. It also does suck that we pay out the nose for a license whether we draw or not.

With all that said, I still apply each year and if I don't draw, we hunt late general archery or whitetails up north. We usually have pretty decent hunts.

As for the second chance draw, I can't complain because my father-in-law and I drew two of the 4 tags available for our hunt this year.
Hammnit
 

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