Solutions for countering SFW

F

flatlander

Guest
I have talked to many sportsmen who are against SFW, followed these forums for about 3 months, conducted extensive internet research about SFR, talked with sportsmen groups and truly believe that SFW is for ideas and policies that are not in the best interest of the average sportsmen. I have learned that they an organization with growing influence in all fish and wildlife issues at every level of government.
So rather that sit on this forum and complain about them what are some things the average sportsmen can do to counter this influence? Which are the best conservation organizations to protect our interests? Perhaps we could start a conversation about what the "average Joe" can do to help in there area.

I truly believe the average sportsmen still has the most influence we just don't have a coordinated voice.
 
Don't buy the expo lottery tag. Don't go to the expo. Yeah they will still sell the auction tags, but they use the head count or the number of guys that buy an expo tag as a stick to beat the DWR, WB, Legislature. If the only guys that go are out of staters looking to buy auction tags, the loose political clout. But if they can point to how many "average sportsmen $fw represents) based on the number of dudes through the door, they carry clout.




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I think SFW does some real good things. I'm very happy to see deer being transplanted. It may prove to be a failure, but happy to see the effort. I don't see eye to eye on everything, which is expected, but I do believe things are better in part because of their existence than it would be have they never existed.

But to each their own. If you can build a better group and make stuff happen, good for you.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
Will you LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook! I need a friend....
 
Perhaps lobby to get an amendment or similar passed to have thier books exposed for all to see on a quarterly basis. RMEF has theirs opened so I hear. Seeing what the take is and what goes into the wildlife and salaries could get interesting. At least have an annual audit and publish it for all to read.
 
Unbelievable, how about create a group that does good for wildlife. Place your efforts at creating a group that is more successful in its results than SFW. I have said all along show me a group that does more for Utahs wildlife and I'll join right up. Instead you focus on trying to battle an organization that is made up of your own sportsmen. Absolutely crazy!!!! Build a better organization and SFW would have less say and less members and good for you. Attack an organization that is doing some good rather than focusing on solutions to help our wildlife, boy that makes a ton of sense!!!!

Honestly, read the title of this post it doesn't say Solutions for bettering our wildlife, it says "Solutions for countering SFW" I'll tell you who would without question support you cause. Anti hunting groups, Wolf lovers, Lobbists that fight to take away our hunting every single day. Give them a call and I am sure you'd get plenty of support to counter the SFW.

You ever hear the saying "careful what you wish for, you might just get it". Well fullthrottle, please tell if SFW goes away tomorrow and you successfully counter it how is wildlife in Utah better? What is your plan that will improve our hunting with SFW gone????? Kinda reminds be of the groups that fight for control of the wildlife in Africa, they have found "solutions for countering sportsmen" tell me how much better off the sportsmen and wildlife in those areas are????
 
I think they do a lot of good. Mainly they keep the DWR in check, they have projects to help wildlife, and they fight on our behalf with politicians.

I also believe that the whiners and complainers do more good in keeping them in check. With an organization as large as theirs they could completely get out of control. They would get more permits which is now to many, Lack of what transparency we have, and they would simply run roughshod over the sportsmen.

Keep it up boys!!!
 
Population of what? Why does Utah need SFW so badly when other Western states do just fine without their influence? mtmuley
 
Muley_73,

Who was it again that tried to derail Simpson/Tester and stick it to MT and ID sportsmen?

What "sportsmens group" is the only one supporting the transfer of public lands?

What "sportsmens group" decided to lobby against Utah's stream access law?

You like to claim that SFW is looking out for Sportsmen, yet there is a list of 3 major issues where SFW did, or are doing, more damage to Sportsmen than the "anti's" you always warn us about ever will.

Care to defend and reconcile how SFW is "always looking out for Sportsmen" when they pull crap like that?

Facts matter and SFW has routinely made the choice to stick it to Sportsmen on very important issues...hard for Sportsmen to look at the "good" your group supposedly does, with a knife in their backs.

Carry on.
 
Mt,
Other states are funded differently. Utah's DWR is not granted money from the general fund. This why the auction tags started to begin with, to provide the dollars need for the DWR. Other states are funded from the general fund. Different dynamics. Utahs population density is also different than Montana. Less people more area to spread out and hunt. If you allowed open over the counter tags in Utah during the rut you would devastate the deer herd in one single year. Montana has shown they can handle that kind of pressure. Different dynamic, different approach to managing all the way around.
 
Buzz,
I have NEVER claimed SFW is perfect. I have had many face to face arguments and discussions where we have not seen eye to eye. However......However.....However.... I will say AGAIN. Until a new games comes to town that actually produces better results than SFW I will support them!!!

The world is grey my friends those that try to claim it is black and white are not based in reality!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-15 AT 09:09AM (MST)[p]Funny how many in Utah want to be like Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, Nevada. Then they support a management style that is nothing like those other states, one heavily influenced by politics.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-15 AT 09:14AM (MST)[p]Shades of grey. Land transfer is black. Pheasant transplants are white. That is very dark grey.
 
The thing I can't get an understanding of is why the support for SFW? Especially with the actions that Buzz described. Aren't there any other sportsman's groups in Utah? mtmuley
 
Muley_73,

Those 3 issues are deal breakers...Sportsmen deserve better, in particular from a "sportsmen's" organization.

Black and white, crystal clear.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-15 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]SFW has done a few things good but in my opinion more things that are bad for our state and hunting heritage.

Pheasants were pitched to the SFW elite (Troy, Ryan, and Don) around 2004 and 2005. The idea was told to a few of us asking, Pheasants were a DEAD issue to the state and a bad choice for SFW to help with. A waste of money, time, and resources. Per Troy.

Fast Forward to now, and look what SFW has now started doing... Amazing how fast they back track on something that was suggested years ago by quite a few SFW members fro around the state. The money was there then, time was there then, and so where volunteers. So what Changed Muley_73?
Where is the Black and white there????

Having been a past member for several years and have NEVER received any list at banquets, mailer's, email's, or magazine add'ins or phone call from SFW on proposed Projects that I would like to see my sportsman's donation spent on. The Elite just decided that for me. I am assuming special interest from the Elite, because they sure didn't ask the General SFW membership (average sportsman member).

I am done with the expo, done with SFW memberships, done with there banquets. I am sick and tired of the games, lack of transparency, the Grey areas of SFW with the State Land Grab as a whole, tired of being locked out of stream access, tired of it... Something needs to change so that we aren't having to live in a state where every tag cost's 2k. How is a system like that good for the average joe hunter?
 
>Muley_73,
>
>Those 3 issues are deal breakers...Sportsmen
>deserve better, in particular from
>a "sportsmen's" organization.
>
>Black and white, crystal clear.


AMEN and AMEN!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-15 AT 10:36AM (MST)[p]http://www.sltrib.com/news/2298978-1...to-unexplained

It gets worse.
 
Muley73, why weren't you and DC here to defend SFW when the new information came out about them supporting the Land Grab?

No hiding behind their lack of a position now. The cat is out of the bag.

In the big picture... Pheasants don't matter, deer transplants don't matter, predator controls don't matter, antelope island tags don't matter.

There is one thing that will stop hunting in the western United States in the next 30 years and that is the Land Grab and SFW FREAKING SUPPORTS IT! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Grizzly
 
aka,
What tags cost 2K??? A small, actually tiny tiny number of tags cost 2K or more. Oh are you saying you want to hunt trophy animals??? Are you saying that trophy animals are what you are tired of not hunting???

Are you all saying because your idea in 2004, 2005 didn't fly or gain support that it shouldn't happen now? Are you saying the pheasants are a bad thing now? Why? Because it didn't happen when it was your idea? I pushed for unit management 20 years ago, it was blocked. In fact it was blocked several times by....SFW. Did I cry and give up and hope that whinning fixed the problem? Did I blame it all on SFW. Nope I stayed in tune with the agendas and met with people and listened and organized and was part of the group that made another push for it several years ago. This time it happened.

Honestly if you think every single angle and aspect of politics in not grey you are living in a bubble. I don't like it any more than any of you. I am just willing to acknowledge the reality of the situation and make a decision on the big picture rather than getting hung up on "they way it should be" or "the way I wish it was".
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-15 AT 01:13PM (MST)[p]>Mt,
>Other states are funded differently.
>Utah's DWR is not granted
>money from the general fund.
> This why the auction
>tags started to begin with,
>to provide the dollars need
>for the DWR. Other
>states are funded from the
>general fund. Different dynamics.
> Utahs population density is
>also different than Montana.
>Less people more area to
>spread out and hunt.
>If you allowed open over
>the counter tags in Utah
>during the rut you would
>devastate the deer herd in
>one single year. Montana
>has shown they can handle
>that kind of pressure.
>Different dynamic, different approach to
>managing all the way around.
>

Whoa there pardner! UDWR does indeed get general/taxpayer funds. Even more than some of the surrounding states.

Per UDWR's FY2014 budget report:
$6,104,718 (7.88%) from general funds.
$33,531,786 (43.31%) from licenses, permits, COR's, and fines.
$23,371,319 (30.19%) from Federal funds.
$14,415,047 (18.62%) from contributions and operations.
Total-$77,422,870

I don't have all other state's latest figures, but:

California Department of Fish and Wildlife: FY2013-14:
$62.7M (17%) general funds
$110.1M (30%) licenses, permits
$62.0M (17%) Federal funds
$29.5M (8%) Oil Spill Prevention funds
$102.0M (28%) Various other funds which are hard to break down.
Total-$366.3 Million



Colorado Parks and Wildlife FY2011-12185:
$28,657,416 (15%) Federal and State Grants/funds
$96,888,669 (52%) Licenses, Permits, Passes & Fees
$36,005,547 (19%) Lottery and Great Outdoors Colorado
$23,801,653 (14%) various other funds which are hard to break down.
Total-$185,353,285

Idaho Bureau of Wildlife FY2012:
$8,807,282 (42.3%) Licenses
$9,107,386 (43.8%) Federal
$2,895,145 (13.9%) Other (including state funds I presume)
Total-$20,809,813

Nevada FY2015:
$494,770 (1.3%) general funds
$14,825,807 (40.4%) licenses, permits, fees, stamps
$14,687,999 (40.0%) federal funds
$1,718,927 (4.7%) transferred from other state agencies
$4,805,661 (13.1%) cost allocations (whatever that is!)
$149,052 (0.4%) misc.
Total-$36,682,216

Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife FY1013-15:
$17,157,413 (5%) general funds
$103,851,923 (29%) licenses, permits, fees
$131,933,605 (36%) federal funds
$7,921,936 (2%) commercial fish funds
$60,003,124 (17%) obligated funds (whatever that is!)
$4,879,929 (1%) lottery
$35,454,200 (10%) beginning balance
Total-$361.2 Million

Wyoming Game and Fish FY2011: (The FY2014 budget report I found is too complicated to sort out.)
$3.75M (6%) general funds
$36.25M (58%) licenses, preference points, fees, stamps
$11.88M (19%) federal funds
$2.50M (4%) interest
$8.13M (13%) other: grants, boating registration, etc.
Total-$62.5M

I don't have time right now to check all the others, but it seems that the other states are as financially sound as is Utah, even if they don't have those auction or Expo tags. And the vast majority of those funds still come from the "average" sportsmen whether directly with licenses, permits and fees or indirectly with Pittman-Robertson or Dingell-Johnson funds.
 
I havent seen any other group spend money in the south eastern corner. SFW spent thousands on sage brush transplant, thousand of dollars and numberous volunteer time to transplant deer to elk ridge. SFW spent thousands of dollars on cleaning out ponds for us. They have spent thousands on highway fencing. I do not see money coming from anyone else to help the san juan area. WE have also seen money spent on Sheep, goats, etc... all of these have been money well spent.

Now on the land grab, I dont know what SFW stance is but I see it both ways, we have several local community members being or trying to be prosecuted for using federal ground, or riding 4 wheelers on a road that feds closed. We have seen more and more road closures, we are seeing forest service closing areas to camping. Our use of the land is already getting restricted each and every year, its going slowly but it is happening. Come down we will show you roads, and areas we use to camp that you can no longer do so. The ulitimate plan of forest service is to restrict camping to designated camp sites.
So what is worse the state being able to fight for things that we all want, to be able to use the grounds, or for the feds to continue to restrict us until we no longer have access to it. I dont thing Utah is wanting to sale the ground off to anyone, just want it to be more user friendly, but maybe the state will sale it all off and we dont see it again. But I guess you have to think who is the best of the 2 evils. I dont trust the feds, but seem to have more faith in the state representatives to preserve utah.
 
"I dont thing Utah is wanting to sale the ground off to anyone, just want it to be more user friendly, but maybe the state will sale it all off and we dont see it again"

So which is it, you think they will sell it or they won't. That is a big difference. The legislators have already said lands will be sold. As for the projects in southeastern Utah, you don't understand funding if you think it only came from one group.
 
Again pick the lesser of 2 evils. Do you want Obama to designate grounds for national parks, and to continue to take from us, or the state?

I do understand funding. Ill tell you SFW spent over 45,000 on pond cleaning by themself. Ill tell you if it wasn't for SFW on our highway fencing it wouldn't have happened, they spent over 100k to get the project going, the county helped with some funds, and then UDOT jumped in. UDOT will confirm that if it wasnt for SFW being the front runner then it wouldn't have happened. The Sage Brush transplant in Beef basin wasn't even a priority and I asked SFW if they would help out and they pushed this project up and got it going, they bought and paid for the sage brush, BLM helped with little funds and they were the projectc oversite and planned the date and time to plant. I have seen the checks, and the volunteers on all of these projects.

I haven't seen 2-point or anyone else helping on any of these projects. But keep up the good work.
 
Cantkillathing,

You better start doing some research.

How much land was granted to the State of Utah at the time of statehood, and how much of it is left?

Also, how about in the case of Wyoming, where its illegal to camp at all on State ground. Not sure about you, but I'd rather have some restrictions on camping on federal lands, than to be shut out 100% on State lands. Further, I cant even start a campfire on State land in Wyoming to roast a marshmallow. Is that restricted use?

How about Colorado? The DOW has to lease state lands from those who hold the grazing leases for hunting, that sound like a restrictive use of State lands?

Care to explain how SFW taking a position to oppose stream access isn't restricting use of public lands?

You can whine about the FS/BLM restricting some uses, but last I checked, there aren't many acres of USFS or BLM ground that is off-limits to camping, fishing, hiking, hunting, horse riding, etc.

Just because you cant take a motorized vehicle to every last acre, doesn't mean its off limits. That seems to be the mantra in Utah, if you cant log it, mine it, graze it, drive a motorized vehicle to every acre, then the Feds are being too heavy handed.

Finally, if this dumb idea of Federal Land transfer was limited to Utah only, and I didn't care about some of the Sportsmen that live there, I'd let you have your way.

That entire State would be either private or trashed...and you'd get exactly what you deserve.
 
>I havent seen any other group
>spend money in the south
>eastern corner. SFW spent
>thousands on sage brush transplant,
>thousand of dollars and numberous
>volunteer time to transplant deer
>to elk ridge. SFW
>spent thousands of dollars on
>cleaning out ponds for us.
> They have spent thousands
>on highway fencing. I
>do not see money coming
>from anyone else to help
>the san juan area.
>WE have also seen money
>spent on Sheep, goats, etc...
>all of these have been
>money well spent.
>
>Now on the land grab, I
>dont know what SFW stance
>is but I see it
>both ways, we have several
>local community members being or
>trying to be prosecuted for
>using federal ground, or riding
>4 wheelers on a road
>that feds closed. We
>have seen more and more
>road closures, we are seeing
>forest service closing areas to
>camping. Our use of
>the land is already getting
>restricted each and every year,
>its going slowly but it
>is happening. Come down
>we will show you roads,
>and areas we use to
>camp that you can no
>longer do so. The
>ulitimate plan of forest service
>is to restrict camping to
>designated camp sites.
>So what is worse the state
>being able to fight for
>things that we all want,
>to be able to use
>the grounds, or for the
>feds to continue to restrict
>us until we no longer
>have access to it.
>I dont thing Utah is
>wanting to sale the ground
>off to anyone, just want
>it to be more user
>friendly, but maybe the state
>will sale it all off
>and we dont see it
>again. But I guess
>you have to think who
>is the best of the
>2 evils. I dont
>trust the feds, but seem
>to have more faith in
>the state representatives to preserve
>utah.

You just happened to forget one big thing in there and that is WHERE all that money they used came from to begin with!!! I love it when I see these SFW guys giving that big DONATION check back to the DWR for what already was taxpayer money that they skimmed a lot more from with their huge tag grab! IMHO Utah deserves whatever it gets if the people that live there complaining like a lot on this site do and yet are allowing this type of an organization to prosper by going to that Expo and supporting them by buying all those raffle tickets. The real shame of the whole debacle is all the hard working average Joes like those on this site that can't see the forest for the trees! No other state has this type of BS going on where one organization essentially controls a state conservation dept. and yet there are people here saying how Utah is so different and needs SFW. Now it's to the next level where the top dogs are bilking the GF state taxpayers out of thousands of dollars for this wolf and sage grouse lobbying BS and look whose pockets all that money is also going into! DP and his top dog at BGF have to be laughing all the way to the bank when they see how many stupid people they are screwing and those same people are saying how great it is, LOL!
 
Deer herd still sucks, but what would it be if it wasn't for these projects, would it have been worse? I know that with the highway fencing we will save 400 der per year on our small stretch of road. So ask me in 3 years what these projects have done for deer.
But my picture of a great deer herd and DWR's picture of a great deer herd are 2 different things. According to DWR are deer herd is better than ever, and I disagree with that.
YOu cant say the projects didn't help because you dont know what they would have been like without it.
 
It's the clueless/naive people like Cantkill that SFW depends on, and the state of Utah for that matter.

Hey Cantkill, was it the Evil Feds that shut down Utah's stream access?

That sucks the evil Feds don't want you and your buddys tearing up every square inch of land with your ATVs.

Cantkill, if Utah were to take over all those federal lands, where's the money going to come from to manage all that land??? I'm thinking we're in for a pretty good fire season, I hear putting out forest fires can be expensive.
 
>I havent seen any other group
>spend money in the south
>eastern corner. SFW spent
>thousands on sage brush transplant,
>thousand of dollars and numberous
>volunteer time to transplant deer
>to elk ridge. SFW
>spent thousands of dollars on
>cleaning out ponds for us.
> They have spent thousands
>on highway fencing. I
>do not see money coming
>from anyone else to help
>the san juan area.
>WE have also seen money
>spent on Sheep, goats, etc...
>all of these have been
>money well spent.
>
>Now on the land grab, I
>dont know what SFW stance
>is but I see it
>both ways, we have several
>local community members being or
>trying to be prosecuted for
>using federal ground, or riding
>4 wheelers on a road
>that feds closed. We
>have seen more and more
>road closures, we are seeing
>forest service closing areas to
>camping. Our use of
>the land is already getting
>restricted each and every year,
>its going slowly but it
>is happening. Come down
>we will show you roads,
>and areas we use to
>camp that you can no
>longer do so. The
>ulitimate plan of forest service
>is to restrict camping to
>designated camp sites.
>So what is worse the state
>being able to fight for
>things that we all want,
>to be able to use
>the grounds, or for the
>feds to continue to restrict
>us until we no longer
>have access to it.
>I dont thing Utah is
>wanting to sale the ground
>off to anyone, just want
>it to be more user
>friendly, but maybe the state
>will sale it all off
>and we dont see it
>again. But I guess
>you have to think who
>is the best of the
>2 evils. I dont
>trust the feds, but seem
>to have more faith in
>the state representatives to preserve
>utah.

Yes, SFW is good at spending my money and your money, and I have no problem with them doing it, as long as it benefits me, my family and friends and the majority of Utah outdoorsmen and women, but let me ask you these questions. Does that give them entitlement to receive other public funds with no accountability? Does it entitle them to send 4 or 5 reps to a meeting when only one is invited? Does it entitle them to use that spending of public funds to influence management policies that are considered biologically detrimental to wildlife? Does that entitle them to an automatic renewal of the Expo contract? Does that entitle them to disregard the statewide 5 year mule deer plan with Option #2 and proposals to raise population objectives and buck to doe ratios far beyond the biological need?

I don't know if you're a member or not, but don't make the mistake on thinking that most of the money they are spending is theirs. And please don't think that spending money, wherever it comes from, entitles them or anyone else to any special privileges.
 
Can't, so you think the State selling is better than a couple trails being closed by the Feds? How about a holistic retreat built in Beef Basin after the State sells it to some dude from back east who enjoys seclusion. Ironic isn't it that Can't hates the Feds, but he willingly took them up on helping transplant some sagebrush in Beef Basin. He probably hates driving on federally funded highways and hunting federal lands, too.

Good to see others understand the funding issue.
 
Right now SFW seems to have a lot of influence and I don't like how they are using there influence. Any organization that believes in creating a class warfare in hunting (I.e wealthy versus non weahlthy or landowners over non-landowners) and is for taking title of public lands, I view as a direct threat to my children's and grandchildren s hunting heritage.

Perhaps SFW members need to pay more attention and hold there organization more accountable? Perhaps change from within maybe more achievable.
 
I have never stated whether I agreed with land grab or not. My opinion of what I would want is the Feds to run it how it should be ran, multi-use. They should manage the ground and not police it. Forest range quality has gone down over the years, winter range forage has gone down, over grown areas with juniper. They have been more concerned about limiting use that they have neglected managing and keeping up the grounds. If I farmed like they manage federal ground I would be in a hurt. Personally I feel like I'm screwed either way is my point I think both plans suck
 
As my stance on SFW, they are helping and doing what no other group or agency was willing to do. Get the funds needed to do projects to help wildlife. You guys have your opinion and i have mine. BLM wasn't going to fund sagebrush, UDOT wasn't going to fence our highway, forest service and BLM was not going to clean out ponds, DWR wasn't going to do it either. DWR was not going to fund mule deer transplant, sheep transplant, goat transplant, buffalo transplant, coyote bounty, pheasant transplant. So tell me how any of that was going to happen? Who would have done it? Tell me what is bad about any of that? Tell me how any of this would have got funded?
 
Hey cant?

Anybody ever get their Asses handed to them over the 'Illegal Wheeler Ride'?


We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
elkassisin, not yet, the court keeps getting cancelled. But the case in my opionion isn't looking like anything will stick. A video was found from the 1980's showing that it was a well used road...
 
So cant?

If I decide to say 'PISS ON RULES & REGULATIONS and do as I Please it's OK and it's my God Given Right to Break the Law?






We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
>It's the clueless/naive people like Cantkill
>that SFW depends on, and
>the state of Utah for
>that matter.
>
>Hey Cantkill, was it the Evil
>Feds that shut down Utah's
>stream access?
>
>That sucks the evil Feds don't
>want you and your buddys
>tearing up every square inch
>of land with your ATVs.
>
>
>Cantkill, if Utah were to take
>over all those federal lands,
>where's the money going to
>come from to manage all
>that land??? I'm thinking
>we're in for a pretty
>good fire season, I hear
>putting out forest fires can
>be expensive.

Where do you think the Feds get that money?
 
How about you answer your own question and ask it this way, Is it alright for the BLM to disregard the rules and regulations to shut down a road? I am not for making anymore roads, but you should also ask the question was it okay to disregard the policy, and the rules to shut down a road? Why are these people criminals, and not the BLM for illegally closing it? I did not ride the trail and didn't see the point in doing so, because your going against a system that will win because of what resources they have. But they themselves disregarded the rules when shutting it down. The point these guys are trying to make is when we will stand up to the Feds and say start following the rules as well.
 
I also don't own a four wheeler. I have told you that before. I like to hike around. Don't hijack this thread, its about SFW, come on Bess.
 
>Buzz,
>I have NEVER claimed SFW is
>perfect. I have had
>many face to face arguments
>and discussions where we have
>not seen eye to eye.
> However......However.....However.... I will say
>AGAIN. Until a new
>games comes to town that
>actually produces better results than
>SFW I will support them!!!
>
>
>The world is grey my friends
>those that try to claim
>it is black and white
>are not based in reality!!!!
>

50 shades of grey. And as usual $fw is doin the screwing!

The guys that support $fw with there "they spend money on...." crap, are the same kind of guys who talk about how much the feds spend in a state. HEY GENIUSES, you gave THE DON a tag on AI, his group sold it at a auction(one that came tax free I am sure, thanks again taxpayers) it went for $399,000, $fw kept $39,000. Now because we throw around figures half azzed. $fw kept a truck. Yup, the DWR that is sooooo underfunded that they "need" $fw, could have had another truck for what $fw kept on ONE TAG.

So, follow along. We gave $fw a tag, they sold it at taxpayer funded party, one that the DWR pimped for them(DWR spent how much advertising for $fw(the same DWR that is underfunded)? $fw sold it to, NOT a UTAHN, NOT someone from the west, NOT someone from America. For that 5 minutes of work, at a party paid for by us, selling a tag paid for by us, $fw kept the eqivalent of an f-150. They repeated this HORROR over and over, each time keeping 10%. Again, to summarize for the slow ones. YOU gave them a TAG, YOU paid for the party, YOU pimped it for them, they sold it, THEY kept 10%. Now heres where it gets good. THEY take the money YOU gave to them, and make a presentation and give a TINY portion back to the WB, and that makes them a great organization.

How about WE cut out the middleman. WE already pay for the party, WE pay to pimp it, WE give up the tag, HOW ABOUT WE(DWR) keep the ENTIRE price of the tag? In what universe is it better to take a hundred dollar bill, give it to someone, have them take $10, and next year give you back $30?

I am 41, I went to college, got a degree, and have been working my whole life. Had I of known that being an auctioneer paid what $fw gets, I would have started talking fast 20 years ago.
Even Vegas could see that the mafia skim was a bad idea!
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Look into the policy to shut down roads. They have to go through the process to shut down any road and they never followed. BLM is not just to slap a sign on a road that has been a road, new roads the reckless four wheelers start they can, but an established road before a certain date has a process they have to go through.
 
I guess the only solution I see is form a group that does a better job in raising a lot of money for projects to help wildlife and hunting. As mentioned. Money for habitat improvments, winter range easments, buffalo, elk,deer, turkey, pheasant, bighorn sheep, mountain goat tansplants.

Money for water projects and guzzlers

Money for emergency deer and elk feeding

money to fix deer being slaughtered on migration routes, fencing and under passes.

get more than a million dollars for fish hatchery repairs

prop 5 protecting hounding, trapping,and predator control, and future hunting.

fight the UEA with the DWR to maintain sportsmen access to school trust lands. IE Book Cliffs.

fought to keep hunting on Escalante National monument
and many, many, more projects.

I don't agree with some things SFW has done. But like Founder said they have done a lot of good. I would also join another group that did a lot for wildlife. I have supported MDF, REMF,PF,NRA,UFNAWS. All help out.

This past year SFW has set records at a lot of their banquets across the state. SFW isn't going to disappear. Form another group and get results and I'm sure many will join, me included.
 
What rule did they ignore?

Its not on me to prove they broke the rules...article, MOU, can you prove anything?
 
If you want to take the time you can do the research and find the answers. I am not going to try and convince you what the BLM is doing. Can you Prove to me that they followed the Rules, article, MOU, can you prove they followed prodocal?

A Local person that is involved has a websit petroglyth.com, I believe. Its probably as accurate as salt lake tribe articles about things but it will give you some info about the issues.

BUZZ you can day dream all you want that the BLM and Forest Service are not already taking over grounds and keeping us off, I dont know why we allow them to continue to push people off and we sit back and fight amongst sportsmen.

Tell me has BLM managed grounds properly? Has Forest service Managed grounds properly. We complain there are no deer left, but if you look at the trend of ranching as well, they have also taken huge cutts in cattle because the feed is not available, because forest service was more concerned about letting a renewable resource like treee over grow in areas instead of letting someone lumber it and use it, it becomes useless for everyone, and nothing will live in it. BLM has let winter ranges become over grown with juniper trees, cheat grass, cactus. There use to be a time when cattlemen would help re seed areas, but because of the loop holes and non native species crap, you cant do anything with out the act of congress. Forest service and BLM has gone from managing to policing, why do forest service and blm rangers need firearms, why are they not looking at making sure the public grounds are fit for multi use, cattle, hicking, four wheeling, etc... they are more concerned to keep you off than they are about making sure there is proper feed for the amount of animals, more concerned about whether your traier for camping is only 150 feet off of a main road.
 
So..... What do you suppose public lands would look like if there were no rules and restrictions in place? The American public is too irresponsible to treat public land with respect as things are now. You want multi-use lands? Great idea except all the users can't get along or use the land as intended. Everytime I head into the hills I see things that make me wish every single road was gated to keep the lazy slob users out. mtmuley
 
Ok, it's real frustrating to see so many people blind to the politics here. The derogatory language "land Grab" is being thrown around by the "uninformed voter" like they are jumping on the wagon trail.

This is what I know 100% surety.

1- That most everybody on this forum doesn't want anything taken away from them. However, they already had something taken away from them... Your land. When the federal government conducted a "land grab" before you were born.

2- That Don Peay has created a career by being a lobiest in an already saturated industry, and that he has figured out how to control law makers to make him more money.

3- That A state legislator from Utah has created a career for himself as of late in trying to get back the land that was taken from us by the Feds.

4- That all of us have different ideas on wildlife and public land and how to manage both.

5- I'm going to make this argument that every one that has replied to this thread including me doesn't have 10% of the facts on any of these issues.

6- That we are ALL emotionally high jacked over our own separate things.

7- That guys on here think that the state once they get the land back are all going to give the rights to SFW to auction the land and then they are going to go buy their executive level people brand new F150 trucks!

8- That none of us could 100% say they trust Barak Obama and his administration to not sell the public land off to the chimes to pay the debt. Could happen just as probable as the states selling the land.

9- That you could stop all this if you really, really, really, really had the ball$ to start a political group that would lobby for you ideas. But no one on here will ever do that.

10- Is it really that bad out there in the grand sceem of things? I know of a lot worse things like how our children and grandchildren are being indoctrinated in schools to be more progressive minded and if they succeed in doing that, 20-30 years from know, public land or not our kids will be passing laws that forbid hunting.

I challenge you all to get the real reason from Ken Ivory in why he is pushing this land thing and then ask yourself is he a threat? It's not so much Don it's Ken... Or maybe he is a genius and we will thank him in 20 years.
 
Start a group? I still don't get this idea. Start a group to rival the mafia we already have. Then $fw can spend money(your money) trying fight you off, leaving even less of the little bit they use to actually do what they claimed they would do. Your right, quit looking for someone else to save you, that includes some other "group". Simply start hitting the meetings, which FIRST need to start being held at places and times that are available to "average joe". The old shine the light on the cockroach approach.

Your right though, this "land grab" thing is a bit of a smoke screen. The real fight that should be coming is WATER. California is OUT of water, guess who is gonna be giving more. Our pinheads on the hill need to quit with with the message bills and start this fight now. We can have all the land we want, but it will be desert is we don't get ahead of the Cali's.

In the grand scheme of things how important is this to our kids? I would say more so than worrying about sex ed in school. Or stopping kids with seizures from getting THB. Or how we are gonna kill the death row. Or moving a prison. In asking that question you forget that although we have shrunk(thanks again $fw for that), hunting is still huge industry in this state. Not to mention that without hunters there is no land protection, no "spotted owl", we pay for it, we worry about it, we protect it.

Lastly, you need not worry about your kids passing laws to forbid hunting in 30 years if they are involved. THE DON, and $fw have gotten rid of more hunters since there begining than all the other anti's combined. The continued push for "trophy" hunting every year chips at the population of hunters. You cannot keep those kids involved if dad draws a tag every 2-3 years to hunt tiny tracts of land surrounded by CWMU's. Where $fw has been so successful is in creating a fairy tale in which everyone should be killing 4 year old bucks every year. Everyone can kill "monsters" if we just limit the ammount of hunters a little more. In doing so we also limited our political power(making THE DON more powerful) and financial hampered the DWR(making $fw more powerful).


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Sure SFW does some great things that cost money.....but... Think how much more they could do if the money wasn't filling their personal pockets.

For every $20 they spend $80 goes to salaries, luxuries, etc. I cannot prove these numbers but I know that SFW will not open their books to disprove them.
 
Heartshot,
80/20, what did you base this number off of? And have you asked them to open the books or are you basing that also off assumption and Interweb facts?
 
So in the Mule deer forum someone is asking everyone to sign a petition because they (The Feds) are wanting to take over and make a monument on the arizona strip. So tell me is it more benefitial to continue to let the federal government make things into monuments, or to have the state control it? Just wondering which plan is better.
 
Not Tryin to Hi-Jack the Thread cant!

Was just wondering what ever came of the Illegal Wheeler Ride,that's all!



>I also don't own a four
>wheeler. I have told
>you that before. I
>like to hike around. Don't
>hijack this thread, its about
>SFW, come on Bess.








We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
lol..bess..your right, I am a hypocrite, just didn't see where else to post the info since it was brought up on this thread I thought I would bring it up again.

The Protest ride is still in the court, the Feds have delayed it over and over. Supposively next month they will hear the prosecution on 5 individuals.
 
"So tell me is it more beneficial to continue to let the federal government make things into monuments, or to have the state sell it off?"

Fixed it for ya and excellent question bro.
 

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