Spike's effects on the state??

brag it isn't the units that already have it implemented that scare us, its the ones that don't, they have a huge number of spikes no previous pressure and basically its lookin like those units are gonna get slaughtered. the future doesn't look good at all for the premium units at all.
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Wildlife population control specialist
 
Hey pro, I don't hate you. Hell, I don't even know you. What I do know is the this states dwr is run by greed. Money is the driving force of all the decisions made by these jackoffs! To hell with the thoughs of the outdoorsman of this state, our oppinions dont mean $hit. Never have, and never will. That is what makes me laugh when it comes to this subject, when all of the big money bulls go away, so goes the big out of state money men. They take thier money to Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, ect. Then what is the Utarded dwr going to do?
 
Berry,
Have you ever hunted a spike only hunt? It is not the slaughterfest you think. The rifle hunt is held the first week in Oct. the mature bull are with the cows and the spikes have been beat to hell and won't even come close to the cows. Units that have rough country have nothing to worry about. Not very many hunters are willing to shoot a spike somewhere they have to pack it out on their backs. The late muzzleloader unt may be the most effective on some units. The Southwest Desert will not have a problem because there are no cows to have or draw the spike into the open. Just ask the people hunting right now if they can find a cow.
 
2buck-
You are right on about the future of incoming funds from non resident and or big auction tag dollars going to be lost when our giant bulls disappear.

But guess what, it's our OWN residents doing the crying that they can't draw a tag in this state because it is managed for giant bulls.
Like i said previously, there's a hell of a lot more of them screaming than there are US that like the big bulls.

Utah will still be a top elk hunting state, but the glory days of killing a dozen 400" bulls are gone.
I'm just glad i can say i was a part of those days and i can tell my grandkids about "The Good Ole days" and show them pictures of what a "BIG BULL" looks like.

We have about 3 good years left people....get your big bulls now!!






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No pressure huh! Thats alright, the pressure's all on the guides isn't it there slammy.

As for the rest of the western hunters here's my two cents. I know of a 400 bull in my area. Only problem is that he's a freakin ghost. I've never hunted in a unit in NM where I couldn't find a 400 bull. However they are ghosts and are extremely difficult to find since they are nocturnal and don't bugle much. What I believe Utah has is an area where there are more 400's than there normally would be. Once this happens the odds of bumping into a 400 bull are a lot better. The results are that a lot more people are bumping into these bulls and killing them. The end result is that the mystique of taking a 380+ bull is gone. People in Utah and Arizona really don't remember what even a lowly 360 bull used to be and now 400 is the norm. I beieve you guys are still going to have more 400's walking around than we do in NM but only the true elk hunters will be able to find them. Maybe this will bring the mystique back to the 360+ bulls.

just my two cents.
 
Hey slam, I agree with you about our own residents screaming about not being able to get a big bull tag. But again, you can look to the Utarded dwr for that also. I would yell and scream also if I were one of the patient ones who have been waiting for 13 years to draw a tag, just to watch it go to some 12 year old kid, or a first year person going in to the draw. Don't get me wrong though, more power to the person who drew a 13 year tag on his/her first year. I just have a problem with the way this states dwr manages the draw, and herds. Both screwed up IMHO.
 
I'm with ya 2buck! ;-)

I also agree with what Stinky just said.
We will still have some "big bulls", but it will be more of an accomplishment to harvest one than compared to what we have had the past 6-8 years.

"Get 'em while you can!!"







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Brag i live on the strawberry, hence the name, i know what the stats are and i know how hard it is, but the wasatch has a ratio a lot less than the premiums. This will be a slaughter and it wont be pretty. A whole bunch of guys that normally hunt the current spike only units will 'migrate' to the pahvant san juan. So here is what happens and exhorbant amount of hunters on a previously unhunted unit will kill a whole buttload of spikes and kill of what future these units have.

BTW i love huntin me a spiker. killed one the last three consecutive years and in my few years of huntin 6 all together? i think. Im young but i aint retarded, it doesnt take a genius to understand what will happen when you open up the premium units to spike tags. If you got points in the system spend them in the next three years cause after that it ain't gonna be worth much. That is unless we get someone intelligent to run things.

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Wildlife population control specialist
 
Well, in that case, you better hunt the hell out of the big bulls. Because you know as well as I do, that intelligent and the Utarded DWR does not mix!
 
Stinky,

Next year buddy. After that, if my thinkin is right, it won't be an accomplishment but rather a hope and dream.

When you get your tag give me a hollar. I will still help you even though I have been uninvited. Me and that other guy would not last 3 minutes together.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-08 AT 11:18AM (MST)[p]You picked the right year stinky thats all i got to say. the opportunists and big money guys are taking Utah's trophy elk and flushing them down the toilet.

The sad thing is its mostly residents who are crying for more more more. That and utterly retarded money hungry Division. In a couple of few years these same guys are gonna be crying for bigger bulls, wondering what happened to the glory days. Its all cause they aren't patient enough to wait for their turn. And the division will be whining wondering where its cash flow went, cause when the big bulls are gone so are the big money guys.

Its never good enough, and thats really sickening.

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Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-08 AT 05:35PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-08 AT 05:34?PM (MST)



I CANT BELIEVE THIS POST!! PEOPLE ARE SPOUTING OFF ALL KINDS OF STUFF! WE ARE ALL SPORTSMAN HERE!! WE ALL WANT TO SEE AND HUNT MORE BIG BULLS!!

We all got punked by mainly one out spoken guy on the wildlife board. Anis had nothing to do with it except he had a problem with keeping the elk under objective on these units.

HERE ARE THE FACTS
There are simply too many elk or elk at caring capacity. We can only have so many elk on so many units plane and simple. Especially if you want to have deer, cows, sheep, on them. Some units have great summer range and poor winter range. So the division has come up with a number of elk we can have on any given unit. Whether or not they pulled the number out of their butts is up for grabs. I tend to believe they are in the ball park with their numbers allowed on any given unit.

THIS IS FOR ALL YOU ARM CHAIR BIOLOGISTS.
How do you keep a herd from growing over a 1000 animals if that is what was set as the limit of elk that can be on a unit?

How do you allow rifle hunters to hunt in the rut and still be able to kill loads of 400? bulls?

How do you keep people from b and moaning if someone kills a bull you don't think was a management bull?


HERE ARE THE ANSWERES TO THOSE QUESTIONS.

1. If you want to keep a herd under objective you have to kill cows, if you don't you will have elk coming out of your azz.

2. If you want to have high quality 400? bulls you have to reduce tags or reduce high success rate weapons. You especially don't allow them to hunt in the rut. They are two vulnerable at that time. 400? bulls and 200? bucks don't often live where anyone with a rifle/bow can just go and kill them from their truck. They live most of their lives where people don't go. This way they can get the age they need to grow those antlers.

3. You have spike tags this way people can't complain about someone killing a bull with a broken beam. Spike hunts suck imho! I went and did my spill at the rac?s I stood up and complained about them till I was out of time and blue in the face. I didn't even say one thing about the state wide archery issue because it didn't concern me or I could care less. I personally like micro managed units.


THE SOLUTION TO EVERYONE?S PROBLEMS IS EASY IT IS RIGHT THERE YOU JUST HAVE TO OPEN UP YOUR MIND.
1. Take the rifle hunt out of the rut. or issue less tags
2. Issue more archery tags! It is working for Arizona and they still kill 400? bulls. Why archery? Well in archery you simply cannot have the average Utard go out and kill the largest bull on the mountain they are lucky if they get in range to even shoot a bull. So they will settle on any bull and be happy with it. They had to use points to draw and they are never guaranteed a bull.
3. Create the management tags again and issue them earlier in the season and give them to rifle hunters. This way more rifle hunters will have a chance at big bulls. Archery hunters simply cannot go out and say they want to kill a 5x6 any easier than they can go out and kill a 400? bull. These elk need to be culled so lets them get culled.
4. Get rid of the lame azz spike hunts all together. If a spike hunter wants to hunt elk give him a cow permit. We will always need to kill some cows to keep our herds under objective.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Anus had nothing to do with it? Isn't he the boss!?!?!

"How do you allow rifle hunters to hunt in the rut and still be able to kill loads of 400? bulls?" Seems to me we were doing fine?

"If you want to have high quality 400? bulls you have to reduce tags or reduce high success rate weapons. You especially don't allow them to hunt in the rut." Fine by me. No hunting in Utah for elk in September. Does that work for you swb? I vote if any hunting in September it is longbow only. I consider inlines, center-fires, and Mathews all high success weapons. After-all, don't we get the best stuff so we can kill sh!t?

"Well in archery you simply cannot have the average Utard go out and kill the largest bull on the mountain they are lucky if they get in range to even shoot a bull. So they will settle on any bull and be happy with it." No, you are right, they just wound it. I know plenty of good archers. It is not if they will connect, but how big. Funny part is they don't gripe about rifles either.

Thanks for saying your piece against spike hunts.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

KTC: Please come to camp in september and bring nunya with you. Me and slamdunk will sit around the campfire with some towels to throw in when needed! ROFL! I will be separated from my ppv ufc fights and think it will be a great relaxer after a hard day in the mountains!

You guys kill me! Uninvited? I guess you were excluded from the cool club too?

As for posting results, I've decided not to post anything up on this site from here on out. I don't really see eye to eye with the mods for the most part and don't want to disrespect whatever I end up killing. You've got all my contact info so keep in touch.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE FROM THE DRUNKEN DWARF!!! YOU TOO PRO!

(cept that ANUS guy, hope you slip on some ice)



---------------------------------------
"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

stiny,

Come on buddy! Getting mad and nuked is what it is all about!

I will let NUNYA do the dirty work. He is in much better shape!;-) I will throw towels in as well.

No, no one uninvited me. You are the boss man.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

swb said, "Anis had nothing to do with it except he had a problem with keeping the elk under objective on these units."

Apparently you got duped by more than one guy if you think that statement is correct. If you were at the UBA meeting at Jakes that night you know damn good and well Anis lied right to our faces. I didn't see anybody else from the DWR at that meeting and I sure as hell didn't see anybody else stand up in front of that room and spew the kind of bullshi++ Anis did. Please don't insult our inteligence. You should have gotten a piece of paper with his so called "statistics" on it. Those numbers didn't mesh with the numbers they were "spouting off" at the RAC meetings. THEY ARE ALL FOS. They lie through their teeth. They tell you numbers and they themselves have no idea if they are accurate. Has it ever made you wonder why the statistics they produce ALWAYS back up THEIR plans? Why is this? They're padded, that's why! They are making decisions on inaccurate data. Their data is off yet they will tell you all sorts of things so that you will accept it as fact when in reality it is simply their best guess. I like you SWB. I think you are a fantastic bowhunter/hunter but I've had a gutfull of the DWR's bullshi++ and you nor anybody else can persuade me to believe them anymore. I supported them for more than 30 years now and gave them the benifit of the doubt, but they are gonna have to a lot more than just spout numbers anymore to get my trust back.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-08 AT 08:20PM (MST)[p]Well said AWLB!

Merry Christmas everybody, even those who "don't like me".:*

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

KTC and AWLB and the rest Maybe I just got off the slow buss. But I personally believe Anis is a pawn. I believe Anis doesn't have any political pull. I believe Anis has to say things that go against what he really believes because he will loose his job if he goes against the wildlife board and his higher ups.

The division can't be trusted. The wildlife board can't be trusted. So how do we make them do there job? How do we as sportsmen come together with solutions to all our problems

KTC you asked
"How do you allow rifle hunters to hunt in the rut and still be able to kill loads of 400? bulls?" Seems to me we were doing fine?

The reason I believe could do this was we were growing a herd and the herd was not at objective yet so we could issue less bull tags at first to keep the herd under objective. Then we had to kill cows to keep herd under objective and now that isn't going to work so now we are faced with killing more bulls. You have seen the peak of what Utah will produce for quality 400? elk IMHO.

Why do we have to re invent the wheel with our deer and our elk? Why can't we look at other states Colorado for deer and Arizona for elk? Arizona doesn't issue any stupid spike tags. They are right there with Utah on quality. Plus they issue more bull tags.

I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone on this. I am not against rifles like most here think. If I could hunt every year and kill big bucks and big elk every year with a rife I would. I see your pain every year when rifle seasons get cut. I see your pain every year when you go into the woods and all you see is orange on every hill. I see your pain every year when you arrive at your camp only to find out some other tard came in with his tard friends and have taken it over. I see your pain when you have to draw a tag to hunt a general deer unit and only see two points and spikes. I personally don't hunt with a rifle anymore in Utah because of all this BS, but I do go out on the rifle hunt with family and friends. When I hunt out of state for deer I will use one of my many rifles.

I am a process of evolution in progress
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

You guys are very entertaining. Do you guys understand how the system works? Really understand it??

The UDWR "RECOMMENDS" management issues to the Wildlife Board. The Wildlife Board also TELLS the UDWR what management they want to pursue. The UDWR must follow the Wildlife Board's directions.

For the record, the Wildlife Board DIRECTED the UDWR to give the Wildlife Board a recommendation on Statewide Spike Hunting. This idea didn't come from Anis or Jim or anyone else, BUT a very determined Wildlife Board member.

SFW couldn't stop it. UBA couldn't stop it. The public couldn't stop it. The Wildlife Board MAKES the decisions. Every decision. The Wildlife Board sets permit numbers. They pass and tweak management plans. They tell the UDWR what they want done and the UDWR MUST do it.

The Management Plans for every species are put together by Committees made up of PUBLIC Members. The Committee Members tell the UDWR what they want in the Plans and the UDWR usually follows them, UNTIL the WILDLIFE BOARD makes the real decisions.

So rip on the UDWR all you want. They don't control much in the way of hunting. Hunting in Utah is controlled by the WILDLIFE BOARD. (Members appointed by the Governor) Why do you guys think Lobbying has been so productive in the past? Lobbying the UDWR is not productive, but lobbying the Political Wildlife Board in the past has been.

Anis is a good guy and contrary to what is said here, he cares for the herds. But he is the messenger, relaying the message he is directed to give by the Wildlife Board. You guys should direct your anger against the Wildlife Board which dictates wildlife policy.

*** I don't care much for the unrestricted statewide spike tags either.

Let me have it...... And Merry Christmas!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

You are correct Mike. In fact the "determined" Wildlife Board member (intials are K.J.) that gave the directive to the DWR in 2007, when I asked him why they were going against the current Elk Management Plan by wanting to issue statewide spike tags, stated the Board can do WHATEVER IT WANTS. You were there when he said it to me on public record. Also, SFW was present and vocal in opposition to statewide spike hunts, as was UBA and others. The Board ignored the input from the public and from the RAC's. Until we get the Wildlife Board to pull their heads out, Anis/Jim/Craig and others at the DWR are hog tied in being allowed to manage based on sense and reason.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Packout I am going to let you have it. I am going to personally thank you for trying to make a difference in Utah. You were on the deer comity and tried to get some things passed for the good of all Utah hunters.

Thanks for all the hard work!

Packout is correct we need to fix the wildlife board. Maybe it is time to Donald trump someone on it or all of them.



Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

LOL. Packout, when have I ever let you have it?:D I do agree somewhat that the DWR's hands are tied, however, just tell me the truth. If I have the truth I can do something with that. I don't know why they lie to the public. Tell us it's the wildlife boards fault and give us their names (and home addresses:D) so we can pester them. Don't sit in a public meeting and tell me that the numbers support certain decisions or that the numbers don't support certain decisions and then do recomment something entirely different. This is fact. I'm NOT spreading rumors. This had all happened within the last 2 months! You can't tell me that I'm the only one that saw and heard that. Packout, I enjoy your posts and I respect the lot of you on this thread. I think there are some fantastic people on this thread in particular that have an educated oppinion. I just want public officials to start leveling with me (the tax paying citizen) when it comes to our wildlife. Is that really too much to ask?

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Packout said:
"""So rip on the UDWR all you want. They don't control much in the way of hunting. Hunting in Utah is controlled by the WILDLIFE BOARD. (Members appointed by the Governor) Why do you guys think Lobbying has been so productive in the past? Lobbying the UDWR is not productive, but lobbying the Political Wildlife Board in the past has been."""


So what your saying is we need to start sending letters and E-Mails to the Governor, to get the Wildlife Board Members Removed, and replaced with compitent people that will do the job right.



Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
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SOLUTION MY TAIL!!!

EVERY YEAR THERES ANOTHER STUPID,MONEY MAKIN,IDIOTIC BATTLE PLAN DREMPT UP!!!

AND Pro!!!

THERES ONLY ONE MM'ER THAT DON'T LIKE YOU!!!

IT'S THE DRUNK DWARF & HE LOVES YOU!!!

THEY BEEN TRYIN TO FIX THE DEER HERDS IN UTAH FOR 35 YEARS NOW!!!

MAYBE WE'LL TRY AND FIX THE ELK HERDS FOR 50 YEARS???

I'M STILL TRYIN TO FIGURE OUT WHICH STATE IS MORE MONEY HUNGRY,UTAH OR COLORADO???

THERES ONE THING FOR SURE!!!

WHEN THEY WHITTLE IT DOWN TO STRICTLY PISSCUTTERS LETS SEE HOW MUCH REVENUE THEY BRING IN!!!

I GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE!!!

AND PISS POOR MANAGEMENT AIN'T GONNA GENERATE MUCH CREDIT AROUND HERE!!!

WHY THE UDWR LETS A BUNCH OF PISSCUTTIN OPPORTUNISTIC FOOLS HAVE THEIR WAY ON LE UNITS I'LL NEVER KNOW???

WAFJ!!!

LETS JUST OPEN IT UP YEAR AROUND AND KILL EVERY FRICKEN ANIMAL ASAP!!!

WAFJ!!!

"""COYOTES WOULD BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DECIMATE,UNLESS YOU TURNED THEM OVER TO THE UDWR"""!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-08 AT 09:52AM (MST)[p]Nomatter what the problem may be SW, your "solution" to the problem is get rid of the rifle hunters, and add more archery only areas. You are somewhat like the alternative lifestylists who act like children as they piss and moan and spew the same old bull$hit time and time again, until it drives a normally sane person to the very brink of insanity. As for your spike hunt oppinion, well, imho you can take it and cram it!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

last time i checked we still live in America?? that means that if you try hard enough and get enough pull the government is still there to fight and protect YOUR rights. Not sayin its an easy thing to do, but it is possible.

The age old rifle hunters suck and the archers are god argument is just like 2buck said, a f'in joke. Sw whats the problem right now?? TOO MANY BULLS. So your solution is add more ARCHERY ONLY???? Thats a great big WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!! Lets take the least successful weapon, make units that are already in trouble archery only and see what happens????? seriously dude WAFJ. You would do just as well be in the queerosexual groups pickting the gov and church groups. They have their own agendas and so do you. It takes INTELLIGENT individuals and thoughts to fix this. Not personal agendas.

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Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-08 AT 09:47AM (MST)[p]Judas Beave, lets see how long that one lasts.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Sorry swb, but I have to go with berry and 2buck.

HOWEVER!!!!!! I am not against making the archery hunt better for all as well. Some place in the middle is a solution.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

2point and dingleberrys
I have never stated to eliminate rifle tags and make any archery only areas. I am just aware that when the state starts raising tags if you give those tags to rifle hunters you will ultimately take the cream of the crop right off the top. You know this to be true and that is why you guys fight raising tags. You want big bulls! I want big bulls!

I think we can leave the rifle tags right where they are right now. Don?t cut them! Initiate a management hunt earlier, and give those tags to rifle hunters. Get rid of the spike hunts on these newly created units and raise archery tags instead of issuing spike tags. Make people use their points instead of getting a spike for free. However keep the spike areas we used to have the same so we don't have people b and moaning they don't have opportunity to kill milk on their lips bulls.

To me it is a win win I don't even care if you keep the rifle hunt in the rut. But these spike tags suck.


Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-08 AT 02:08PM (MST)[p]Well hot dang SW maybe ya did just get off the short bus?? thats a rather intelligent statement for ya right there. But, kinda a big problem. I'll use the wasatch since i know the numbers on it. we need to kill more bulls right?? so leave the LE tags where they are at right? as of last year that was 180 rifle 90 Muzz and 90 Archery. Total of, 360 tags not including cons tags. So, what we get is around 220 bulls taken every year, 150 rifle 50 muzzy and 20 archers. you need to kill more than that right?? so add a 'few' more arch tags right?? well to kill off what ya need say another uh 200 bulls in a management hunt. how many tags at a 20% success rate?? Thats a very generous number btw, considering that the success on the wasatch last year was less than 10%. thats a lot of pressure and how ya gonna put another say, 1000 tags out there?? That's way too many ppl huntin at once when are you gonna have them hunt anyway?? I get that based on the dnr's count of 6000 elk thats 600 over objective right?? so a 1:2 ratio that means that there are 200 bulls and 400 cows over. Its all a load of crap with them i know but thats what the numbers are so, here it is. I have no problems with makin it better for archers, but right now a bow hunt is not the answer. We need high success management THROUGH OUT the herd not in just two age groups.

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Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Hey beaver
Why would you argue a unit I said I wouldn't touch! Lame! Why don't you go back and read my post slowly.

Last time I looked the Wasatch was a spike unit before this year. I said nothing about touching a spike unit. These spike units are a baby factory. They have high cow numbers and relatively low bull numbers compared to other units. So keeping them under herd objective is a lot harder than keeping a unit that has a high bull to cow ratio like the Monroe.

Leave the already spike units alone. Leave these units for the die hard cow killers and milk on the lips bull killers. As for quality on these units sure there might be one killed here and there that is a decent bull but IMHO the Wasatch sucks compared to other units in this state.


Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Your right on that one congrats SW but, the same deal exists on the other units too many bulls. You cant get a good success rate with a bow so where do you go????
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Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

The other units in Utah can be controlled just like they do in Arizona. It is working with out spike tags there. They still kill 400? bulls and don't issue spike tags. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel I am just using one scenario that is working. Maybe you should just get an Arizona proclamation and read up.

I can't argue with Arizona?s success any more than I can with Colorado?s success with mule deer.

I don't try and reinvent the wheel I just use what is working and stick with it.

Utah was working but over time it failed. Utah created a monster when it restricted bull tags and was forced to kill cows to keep herds under objective. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it wouldn't last for long. For those that had a tag when it was good you are the winners. For the rest of us we are going to loose unless things change.

The Wasatch will be the standard in a few years of what Utah?s elk herds will look like. Maybe some of you are fine with that but I am not!

Good luck bess in this years draw hope its your year.






Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

berry, what is wrong with having a 'low success' rate hunt to thin out some of the 'excess' bulls? If teh success rate is 20-30% you can offer a ton of OPPORTUNITY, why is that bad? Just curious.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY Pro!!!

WE ALREADY HAVE PISSCUTTER HUNTS WITH LOWER SUCCESS RATES!!!

THE LE UNITS WERE SET UP FOR QUALITY/HIGHER SUCCESS HUNTS!!!

I THINK YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT???

GEEZUS!!!

LE UNITS CAN NOT HANDLE EVERY TARD IN THE STATE AND WERE NEVER SET UP FOR TARDS TO DESTROY THEM!!!

AGAIN,SINCE YOU'VE NEVER LISTENED TO ME FOR YEARS!!!

LE UNITS WERE NEVER SET UP FOR A BUNCH OF WHINNING PISSCUTTIN OPPORTUNISTS!!!

YOU WANT OPPORTUNITY JUST HUNT THE GENERAL ELK HUNTS AND ENJOY THE PUMPKIN PATCH!!!

I JUST CAN'T SEE WHY ANYBODY WOULD WANNA WASTE MANY YEARS TRYING TO FINALLY PULL A TAG AND HAVE THE GREEDY OPPORTUNISTS DESTROY THE UNITS MAKING THEM NOTHING BUT BIG PUMPKIN PATCHES & SHOOTING ALL PISSCUTTERS IN SIGHT!!!

TO ME THAT AIN'T A QUALITY HUNT!!!

ONE OF THESE DAYS THIS $HIT IS GONNA SINK IN TO YOUR THICK SCULL!!!

PROBLEM IS,WE'RE ALL GONNA BE OLD & GRAY & CRIPPLED BUT BY GAWD WE'LL ALL BE ABLE TO BRAGG WE GOT A PISSCUTTER TAG,IT ONLY TOOK 30 YEARS TO DRAW THE TAG BUT DAMN WOULD YOU LOOK AT MY TROPHY SPIKE!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

On a smaller unit it works pro but if your huntin a high pop unit like say San juan just curious how your gonnna be able to cram another 1000 hunters on it??
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Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

"If teh success rate is 20-30% you can offer a ton of OPPORTUNITY, why is that bad? Just curious."

Are you serious? People have been applying for LE tags for
10-15 years and you wonder why 20-30% is bad.

You really ought to consider moving to Colorado.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

So fireman lets hear it you just gonna sit and insult or do you have somethin related and intelligent to say??
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Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

woodruff, pay attention for a minute! We are talking about LE ARCHERY tags NOT the precious rifle hunts.

berry, I have said MANY times that I support keeping 8-10 LE units premium, San Juan would be one of them. There are 28 LE units in Utah, I see no valid reason that we can't have differing ways of managing them. Some as premium (6-7 yr old harvest objective) that have limited tags and hunts in the prime part of the rut as they are now, some managed for 5-6 yr old harvest objectives where the season dates are mover around to allow for fairly high 'quality' but more opportunity than the premium units, others managed for 4-5 yr old harvest objectives where 'quality' is better than any-bull areas, but the opportunities are fairly high due to a higher percentage of tags being given to primitive weapon hunters and the seasons being OUT of the rut. Management tags can be issued on any/all LE units that warrant them based on bull:cow ratios and harvest age averages.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

There's one main point folks are missing in this discussion as I see it. Primitive weapons hunters take lower age class animals on average than do rifle hunters.

The argument for primitive weapons in the rut is to have more lower age class animals harvested, yet still have the bulk of the quality at the top end.

Move the rifle hunts out of the rut, increase their tag allotements too and thought the harvest rates won't go down much the age class harvested will. This is the concept with the premiums that would allow for more opportunity with primitive weapons and more opportunity with the any weapon hunt out of the rut and still have the bulk of the quality on top.

Forget the spike hunts, just harvest way more bulls out of the lower age classes with proper management. This type of scenario leave the cream of the crop in the field, higher oportunity and a sustainable bull to cow ratio within a given herd size.

I don't see where there could be an arguement with that ????

Cheers,
Pete
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

I like pete's idea but my only question is, where would ya move the rifle tags too? earlier or later?
littlebeaver.jpg


a32_cleaners.jpg


Wildlife population control specialist
 
RE: SOLUTION!!

Put the archery hunt in Sept, the muzzle loader hunt the first 10 days of Oct and the any weapon hunt the 11th - 20th of Oct. These dates would create havoc the first year or two on the premiums and we would need to make a shift slowly to these dates over a few years.

We don't just blow up the units with massive permit increases the first year of the change like we're going to see with the spike hunts. We slowly creap up on permit numbers as we watch the ratio's change. A few more years of inappropriate bull to cow ratio's is not going to destroy the herds.

The spike hunts on the premiums is going to create a giant void in the bull population 4 or 5 years from now. Unit's like the Wasatch, Manti and Beaver developed their world class status while spike hunts were going on. The premiums have not developed like that. We have trained the elk a different way on those units and I think we have a disaster at hand by letting unlimited number of archery and 12,500 spike rifle hunters at these units all the first year.

Just my $0.02, which as I've found out over the years is all it's worth to the powers that be :(

Cheers,
Pete
 

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