Too little, Too late

[Blank]

Gee, after two bad winters, and we are still shooting does. Duh!!!

F&G again proposes to cut antlerless deer and antelope hunts to help herds recover in eastern Idaho

Idaho Fish and Game wildlife staff are still mindful of recovering deer and pronghorn in eastern Idaho and will propose modifying the 2024 hunting seasons during the March 20 Commission meeting. The proposed changes include several controlled hunts and landowner appreciation (LAP) hunts.

idfg.idaho.gov

 

[yotebuster17]

Short of targeted private land depredation hunts and youth encouragement hunts, there’s no reason or place for shooting muley does in the US right now.

 

[JPickett]

Short of targeted private land depredation hunts and youth encouragement hunts, there’s no reason or place for shooting muley does in the US right now.

i will never understand why anyone would support doe hunting for youth.

if there's not enough deer to shoot does, there is not enough deer to shoot does. period. kids gun makes them just as dead.

cut them all and who cares how many farmers cry about "depredation" that's all bull$hit anyway. F&G will still continue to give out million dollar checks to the guy in Fairfield crying about his wheat regardless of shooting does

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

It is F--KING sad how many years it takes these Fish & NO GAME IDIOTS to realize the critters are about gone before they do anything & most of the units they still DONT make any changes !! I ran into a bunch of these so called Biologists in unit 40 about 6 years ago. They were trying to radio collar deer for this program, they told me they needed at least 25 deer in a group to be able to conduct their study !!! They had been down there for over 3 weeks & had only found like 3 or 4 groups that had 25 animals in them !! Any way the following year I called the Nampa office & asked what was the end result of their study was. They had determined the decrease in the deer herd was due to STRESS on the DOES !!! I asked the Biologist what effect Killing 500 to 1000 2 points a year played in the herd decrease , her reply was not a lot !!! I have been going down to the same areas they did this so called study in for the past 20 years. It was nothing to see 1000 + deer a day from Nov thru March in years past . Now there are maybe a 1/4 of the deer that used to winter there 5 to 10 years back !! So here is a FACT they knew there was a decline in the unit 40 herd but they have NOT done Crap in 6 years. The same is true for Eastern Idaho units they knew those units were hammered massive die offs & what did they do put a shed season in effect like the posting said Too little too late !!!

 

[yotebuster17]

i will never understand why anyone would support doe hunting for youth.

if there's not enough deer to shoot does, there is not enough deer to shoot does. period. kids gun makes them just as dead.

cut them all and who cares how many farmers cry about "depredation" that's all bull$hit anyway. F&G will still continue to give out million dollar checks to the guy in Fairfield crying about his wheat regardless of shooting does

Fair point on the youth, the only thing I would say is that if the population can handle any doe harvest, getting a kid hooked on hunting may be worth the loss of a doe in the grand scheme of things. It’s gonna be more and more prevalent where if a kid wants to hunt his home state (especially populated states like AZ and UT) they’re gonna get 1-3 chances before they’re out of the house and on their own. That’s a small amount of facetime with the outdoors to get someone hooked.

 

[BrianID]

I have no problem with doe hunting when the population is up. In my opinion it would not have caused any harm and may have actually helped to kill more does in many Eastern Idaho units in 2022. Doe hunting was appropriately restricted to being almost nonexistent in Eastern Idaho in 2023. There should be zero mule deer doe hunting in eastern Idaho in 2024.

Doe hunting should have been more restricted in other parts of Southern Idaho in 2023. I would agree with JPickett and say we don't need youth to kill does. They can get hooked on hunting without having to kill an animal. I didn't kill a deer or elk the first 3 years I hunted as a teenager. Some kids will grow up to be hunters and some will not. I don't think youth killing does helps recruit any new hunters. Kids having an opportunity to hunt and a good mentor helps create new hunters.

I would have like to see more restrictions on buck hunting in 2023. I ended up with tag soup for both of my Idaho deer tags in 2023 but I wasn't even planing on killing a deer in Idaho last year. I just wanted to do an armed hike and enjoy time with family and friends. Assuming I get some other hunts this year, I may not even buy an Idaho deer tag this year. If I don't draw any other tags, I'll probably buy an Idaho tag and go on an armed hike and plan on tag soup at the end of the season.

I thought deer hunting was bad 20 years ago but compared to 2023 the deer hunting in Eastern Idaho was really good in the early 2000's. Hunters in the 1980's thought the hunting was bad but it was much better then than it was in the late 1990's or 2000's. The decline of mule deer has been the rule across the west for 50 years. I hope I'm wrong about how mule deer hunting will be in 2040.

 

[Blindnonresident]

" I don't think youth killing does helps recruit any new hunters. Kids having an opportunity to hunt and a good mentor helps create new hunters."

Killing does creates the urge to kill perhaps, but letting kids kill does is poor mentorship.

Teach new hunters to hunt and to be proud of what they harvest while showing respect for the creatures they pursue and the habitat they call home.

 

[JPickett]

Fair point on the youth, the only thing I would say is that if the population can handle any doe harvest, getting a kid hooked on hunting may be worth the loss of a doe in the grand scheme of things.

i do not disagree in principle. if there is enough population to facilitate doe hunting, let the kids blast away if that's what they want to do.

fact is, there is not the population to handle it. so it needs to go away. im of the same opinion on wolves. if there was enough habitat to sustain a healthy game population with wolves great. fact is, its 2024, habitat is lost, there's no room in the lower 48 for wolves to maintain a healthy ecosystem. i would love to live in a world where wolves are everywhere, we can blast the hell out of whatever deer we want and everything would be fine. because that would mean i live in the 1850's and the nation's population is a few million people with wild lands and wilderness dominating the country.

unfortunately i don't live in that world, so if we want to keep any sort of future for what we do little johnny may just have to wait for a buck to step out

 

[mdbrown]

Even though they should have quit killing does years ago
I’m glad they are at least finally stopping it
Maybe now it’s time to do something like Utah dedicated hunter program.
Although I have no idea if that program works.
Does it?

Or something like we can only shoot 2 muleys every 5 years max??
Or whitetails every year ?
Just a couple thoughts

 

[JPickett]

Whatever we do let’s not do anything Utah does…

 

[huntindad4]

There are plenty of other game animals and birds for kids to get involved in hunting. Dad or grandpa or mom etc may have to take up something new themselves to do so. But there is opportunity out there.

Problem is Mentors are "too busy" or "that trip to hunt out of state with my buddies is MY TIME, I don't need kids along" or "he chose football (or whatever sport or activity) I'm not missing MY HUNT for him". Raising kids in hunting is no different than raising kids in general, it takes effort. It takes presence not presents to raise them right.

My dad never hunted out of state until I was old enough to go. Then my senior year in high school I decided to play football, we still deer hunted every weekend 6 hours from home!

My kids all played sports. They all hunt still to this day. We hunted around sports and other activities. And we hunt what's available when we can.

 

[huntindad4]

Also, I know I've posted this on MM before but the first trip I ever made it to ID to hunt deer was 1989 and we traveled the weekend and our first day to hunt was Monday so all week long there were few hunters and heard very few shots and saw quite a few deer. This was the last 2 weeks of season so first week of November back then. Sona bit of rut activity. Great experience so far.

The first Saturday morning sounded like opening of duck season! It was the ONLY time I ever thought I may be shot while hunting big game and I hunt in Kali every year.

Didn't take long to figure out they were shooting does. There was dead ones everywhere. Seems folks liked to upgrade to a bigger doe? Gutted does laying in turnouts where the "hunter" must have came across a better piece of meat.

I saw a guy shoot a doe across the belly, she was dragging her guts as she entered the timber. She never came out of that timber. He didn't leave the road. They were across the canyon so I yelled that he had hit the deer to which he replied he knew. They drove off to go find another...

Those "extra" doe tags they used to have were ridiculous.

That is still the worst experience of hunting for me. Not the overall hunt. Just the extra doe hunt.

 

[BrianID]

Even though they should have quit killing does years ago
I’m glad they are at least finally stopping it
Maybe now it’s time to do something like Utah dedicated hunter program.
Although I have no idea if that program works.
Does it?

Or something like we can only shoot 2 muleys every 5 years max??
Or whitetails every year ?
Just a couple thoughts

I think think the best solution is to make hunters that kill a deer wait out the next hunting season. There just are not enough bucks out there anymore for hunters to shoot one every year. It would significantly decrease the number of bucks killed and still preserve opportunity.

There are many Idaho hunters that go 5 or 10 years without killing a buck every year. It does very little harm giving them a tag every year. Then there are hunters that tag a buck almost every year. We need to restrict those hunters because they won't restrict themselves.

 

[mdbrown]

I think think the best solution is to make hunters that kill a deer wait out the next hunting season. There just are not enough bucks out there anymore for hunters to shoot one every year. It would significantly decrease the number of bucks killed and still preserve opportunity.

There are many Idaho hunters that go 5 or 10 years without killing a buck every year. It does very little harm giving them a tag every year. Then there are hunters that tag a buck almost every year. We need to restrict those hunters because they won't restrict themselves.

Agreed
The last muley I shot in Idaho was 2016 with muzzle loader
I love hunting muleys,
But my whitetail standards are pretty low
They taste so good

 

[huntindad4]

I've always wanted to know the rationale behind the forked horn only general units. Maybe a long time resident can answer for me?

 

[Muleskinner]

I've always wanted to know the rationale behind the forked horn only general units. Maybe a long time resident can answer for me?

I believe they are banking on that most people will put in for the draw hunts for bigger trophy deer than the otc 2 point deer hunt in those units no rational decisions behind it makes no sense to me some biologist thinks it a good idea

 

[BrianID]

I've always wanted to know the rationale behind the forked horn only general units. Maybe a long time resident can answer for me?

The F&G argues they are trying to preserve opportunity for those that want to kill a deer every year. I'm still surprised by how many people hunt those 2 point units every year. There are obviously a lot of hunters that just want an opportunity to kill a forky. It would probably make many of us sick if we knew how many bigger bucks are poached (intentionally or unknowingly) in the 2 point units every year.

There are also a lot of nonresidents that have bought tags in those units that didn't realize it was 2 point only. Over 60% of the tags nonresidents purchased for 40, 41 and 42 have been returned since December 1st. Lots of buyers remorse.

 

[huntindad4]

With idahos history of opportunity first on their mule deer management that makes sense.

I was just wondering if they may be looking at it from an age class management rationale. Figuring draw hunters would shoot mature deer only they may need to balance it by killing young deer as well. Not smart IMO but I thought that may be it.

Also wondered if the unit may have suffered from a genetic propensity for mature 2 points or 3x2, 4x2 etc. I saw a BIG 4x2 across the border in NV area 6 about 15 years ago and I know some of those genetics exist there and elsewhere.

Whatever the reason it makes no sense to me to kill them, especially specifically them. Same as does.

 

[JPickett]

the entire reason is proximity to population centers. 40's right down the road from Boise. guys feel like it's there "right" to hunt every year because by God it's deer season.

i've said before, most "hunters" and id go as far to say 90% of the guys that buy tags, dont give a $hit about managment. they think about hunting 2 weeks out of the year, shoot their ole 30 aut 6 two days before deer season ,burn more fire wood then gas drinking beer at camp and "gotta get thur deer!!!" .

that portion of our population too is fish and games clientele. so you get units like 40 that used to be amazing with an over the counter 2 point hunt full of these guys.

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

I've always wanted to know the rationale behind the forked horn only general units. Maybe a long time resident can answer for me?

I have lived in & hunted Idaho for over 45 years & I have watched Idaho Fish & NO GAME Destroy these units. Their so called game management plan is a DAMN JOKE, all their program is doing is eliminating the deer herds. I think a 2 point controlled hunt that is say 5 to 7 days long for youth under 16 or anyone with a disability would be a better option !! And make it ALL units with a healthy population not just 22 40 41 & 42.. Completely eliminate ALL doe hunts .

 

[300WBYMULES]

From My perspective Idaho faces all the modern day challenges of all the other western states. I have Hunted it for deer in the early 2000’s. Have a had a few tags over the years. Killed my first bull elk as a 18 year old in the frank church back in 1996.

Idahos been good to me and my family. I plan to hunt it for deer this year.