Utah Bonus Point Question

grizzmoose · Mar 7, 2014

Hi Guys,

Quick, dumb question. When I applied for an LE hunt this year, it showed I had 8 points. Does that mean you enter the drawing w/ 8 points, or would I enter w/ 9 points after essentially paying for the additional one?

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

Short answer: 8

When you check your odds you are looking backwards so see where you fit in when you had 7 points. That will give you an idea where you really be now that you have 8 going into the draw this year.

Clear as mud?
Zeke

grizzmoose · Mar 7, 2014

No lol, but the short answer is totally sufficient. I'm hoping for a Wasatch LE Elk muzzy tag. Seems like a decent chance to draw. Not looking for a monster, but just a fun hunt with a chance to put something nice on a wall. I've never hunted elk before and this seems like a good one to get started on.

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

Great hunt.
Keep us posted. Lots of guys know lots of things about the unit and would be willing to share.
Zeke
PS: at least my post made sense to me! Lol

muleyhunter413 · Mar 7, 2014

Zeke, where did you get that information from? I disagree and the way I understand the draw system for utah is that grizmoose would have 9 going in the draw this year. If unsuccessful he would retain the ninth point.

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

Well let's see.
He has 8 points going into the draw and will be awarded his 9th if unsuccessful in the drawing. He will not get his 9th before the drawing starts. He gets a tag or his 9th point after the drawing and will enter next year's draw with 9.
I can't put my finger right on where or how I know it but it's accurate info....I think. Lol
Zeke

greysriver · Mar 7, 2014

you are SPOT on Zeke. Kinda hard to have nine points before the draw where you entered with 8. LOL thats funny!

grizzly · Mar 7, 2014

You have 8 points going into the draw, but you are actually in the hat 9 times. Otherwise people who apply for their first year wouldn't get a name in the hat.

One time for each point, plus one for the current year.

As for finding out your draw odds for last year, that is where you subtract one.

Grizzly

muleyhunter413 · Mar 7, 2014

Tell me how many points you have when you put in the first time. If you have zero points going in do you not get a chance at the drawing and then a point each year afterward? Weird huh?
I say he has nine numbers awarded to him this year in the draw.

muleyhunter413 · Mar 7, 2014

LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-14 AT 08:06PM (MST)[p]Nevermind, I figured this one out.

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

>Tell me how many points you
>have when you put in
>the first time. If
>you have zero points going
>in do you not get
>a chance at the drawing
>and then a point each
>year afterward? Weird huh?
>
>I say he has nine numbers
>awarded to him this year
>in the draw.

Re-read Grizzly's post. It makes perfect sense.

You have you hat in the ring the very first year but have zero, repete, zero points!
Points are ONLY awarded after an unsuccessful drawing.
Look at the history of the drawing. Guys have drawn tags with zero points!

Zeke

muleyhunter413 · Mar 7, 2014

The question that was originally asked I believe was to see how many names in the hat grizzmoose would have. He will have nine. You show that point after only if unsuccessful.

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

>Grizzly, why do you subtract one?
>

I'll take a crack at it.
Last year he would have ENTERED the drawing with 7 points and an application, just like the other guys in his pool. To see and calculated the true odds he must look in the right pool. His pool had 7 points last year so that's where he needs to look to project odds. If he looks in the 8 points pool from last draw, he'll think he's further along than he really is.
Zeke

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

RE: Utah Bonus Point

He said points, not name in the hat. I hope we answered his question but it looks like we raised a few more. Ha
Calculating draw odds can only be done within the correct pool.
Zeke

grizzmoose · Mar 7, 2014

RE: Utah Bonus Point

I'm shocked by the response to this post for two reasons:

1. No has yet called me an idiot or chastised me for not knowing.
2. It generated more than one response.

Thanks guys!

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

No way!
What's dumb about asking a question of you brother hunters?
Good topic too since I've been caught in the trap of points miscalculations myself!
Zeke

txhunter58 · Mar 7, 2014

>Hi Guys,
>
>Quick, dumb question. When I
>applied for an LE hunt
>this year, it showed I
>had 8 points. Does
>that mean you enter the
>drawing w/ 8 points, or
>would I enter w/ 9
>points after essentially paying for
>the additional one?

Ok, so let me rephrase your question: "Does that mean you enter the drawing with 8 chances in the drawing or would I enter with 9 chances after essentially paying for the additional one.

Answer: You enter the drawing with 9 chances after paying them for the 9th one!

Obviously redundant info!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

That's all true tx58. However, it's true only if he wants to know how many times he's in the hat. Relevant but not really if calculating draw odds.
If he wants to calculate draw odds, he'll have to remember the number 8 for this year and 7 for the last drawing (this is the only info from which he can draw any conclusions). The number 9 tells him nothing...until next year.
Zeke

muleyhunter413 · Mar 7, 2014

Zeke is right. The odds actually have the 0 point category. Good luck to all of you in the draw.

Zeke · Mar 7, 2014

Actually he'll have to look at the bonus pool 8 after the draw this year to see, or project, what 8 points did for him and what 9 points will do of him next year.
That's more accurate.
Good heck, forget it all. Good luck In the drawing and let us know when you get a tag. There's help out there for you!
Zeke

ElkManDan · Mar 7, 2014

When looking at draw odds you must look at how many Bonus Points you have before the draw. In your case 8. With 8 bonus point last year there was a 22% chance of drawing a Wasatch Muzzy tag. 10 Bonus points is what it took last year to be guaranteed a Bonus tag. You have 2 more years before you are guaranteed a Wasatch muzzleloader tag. The amount of points it takes to draw a bonus tag usually doesn't change a whole lot from year to year.

Find your draw odds here [http://www.neverstophunting.com/DrawOdds2013/elk.php#muzz]

WapitiBob · Mar 7, 2014

You get one random number for your application and one for each point, keeping the lowest. If unsuccessful in the draw, you are awarded another point, at the conclusion of that draw.

Birdman · Mar 8, 2014

If nothing changes as for the permits or those that are putting on for the permits, 18 of the 31 people who have 8 points this year should draw the muzzle tag.