How many points did you apply with? Resident of nonresident?Interested too… took more points than I thought it would to draw Manti late…
Interested too… took more points than I thought it would to draw Manti late…
NR - 20 ptsHow many points did you apply with? Resident of nonresident?
I was gonna apply with 19 but decided to go a different route. Same end result, no tag.NR - 20 pts
For a state with hunting as terrible as Utah provides, there sure is a LOT of people wanting a tag to hunt there….
Todd
I'm going to explain this phenomenon in a simple analogy:For a state with hunting as terrible as Utah provides, there sure is a LOT of people wanting a tag to hunt there….
Todd
Or perhaps, that one decides that they’re just not going to settle for anything less than perfection and continues looking for that perfect 10, only to grow old and die without ever cashing in? Hmmm…kind of reminds me of my sister in law?
Yeah that's why Bessy left the island and hasn't drawn an elk tag.Or perhaps, that one decides that they’re just not going to settle for anything less than perfection and continues looking for that perfect 10, only to grow old and die without ever cashing in? Hmmm…kind of reminds me of my sister in law?
Well....you didn't get lucky but that doesn't mean you're unlucky.Hey Bob?
That Mean I'm Lucky?
I got lucky drawing Wasatch mid season elk with only 7 points......I'll take full advantage of this!View attachment 112402
Nah - keep it the way it is. Utah's approach is a good balance to award tags to highest point holders, but also give others a random chance. There are flaws with all point systems, but this is not one of them in my opinion.Overall 189 NR bull tags awarded in random vs 134 NR bull tags to highest point holders….sick of single digit point holders getting tags over 20 plus guys.
utah needs to give a higher percentage to the highest point holders.
If only there was a way to keep those that complain about Utah’s hunting/point system from even applying to hunt in Utah, maybe those that don’t complain could draw tags a little more often.For a state with hunting as terrible as Utah provides, there sure is a LOT of people wanting a tag to hunt there….
Todd
I agree! The Utah system has been good to me. I've used max points to draw LE deer and LE pronghorn, but have also got lucky with drawing LE archery elk (4 pts) and this year LE pronghorn (1 pt) again. Keep the Utah system as is IMO.Nah - keep it the way it is. Utah's approach is a good balance to award tags to highest point holders, but also give others a random chance. There are flaws with all point systems, but this is not one of them in my opinion.
Nah - keep it the way it is. Utah's approach is a good balance to award tags to highest point holders, but also give others a random chance. There are flaws with all point systems, but this is not one of them in my opinion.
I've never killed an animal over 403 yards with it, nothing that can't be done with a 3x9 Leupold ?Hey PUNK?
Can We Do A Little Experiment & YANK Your NightForce?
RAZZIN Ya!
Glad You Pulled A Tag!
Both of the 24 point people drew a LE hunt. Elk, deer and pronghorn are drawn first. When you draw a LE hunt you are not eligible for a OIL hunt.Not sure how this happened unless it was a party group and only one tag left for bonus pts. Only thing I could think of ? Thoughts? View attachment 112381
That makes sense also. This was a LE hunt drawing also and not an oil tag. But I understand that you can only draw one tag as a NR if I understood the regs properly.Both of the 24 point people drew a LE hunt. Elk, deer and pronghorn are drawn first. When you draw a LE hunt you are not eligible for a OIL hunt.
i
I've never killed an animal over 403 yards with it, nothing that can't be done with a 3x9 Leupold ?
Thanks Bess, you're always welcome to join my hunts any time ?
It's not just a NR thing, residents have that rule as well.That makes sense also. This was a LE hunt drawing also and not an oil tag. But I understand that you can only draw one tag as a NR if I understood the regs properly.
Yep it’s a big contributor to point creep. I’m on a elk waiting period but I would be all in on 75/25 or 80/20Overall 189 NR bull tags awarded in random vs 134 NR bull tags to highest point holders….sick of single digit point holders getting tags over 20 plus guys.
utah needs to give a higher percentage to the highest point holders.
It's not just a NR thing, residents have that rule as well.
And that's why I just apply for an LE Pronghorn point along with an OIL bull moose tag. I'm 82 years old and already have a Pope & Young pronghorn and I'm close enough to a moose tag that I don't want an LE Archery Pronghorn tag bumping me out of the moose draw.It's not just a NR thing, residents have that rule as well.
And that's why I just apply for an LE Pronghorn point along with an OIL bull moose tag. I'm 82 years old and already have a Pope & Young pronghorn and I'm close enough to a moose tag that I don't want an LE Archery Pronghorn tag bumping me out of the moose draw.
You Know PUNK?
We're Getting To That Age Where We Should Be Looking For Them A Little Closer To The Truck Don't Ya?
[/QUOTE
It's an asset having multiple friends with ponies that love packing Elk out.
"Kill Em Where They Are" ?
And that's why I just apply for an LE Pronghorn point along with an OIL bull moose tag. I'm 82 years old and already have a Pope & Young pronghorn and I'm close enough to a moose tag that I don't want an LE Archery Pronghorn tag bumping me out of the moose draw.
Or make pronghorn hunts (and management) both general and LE units like they do for deer, elk and turkey.Yeah I wish they would allow you to select your preference when submitting your application. So if you are putting in like you are you could still be in the hat for both, but if by some chance you drew both then your selected preference would be what you drew for.
It really seems like it would be an easy fix to the system especially where it's all done over the computer, just add an extra step to the process to select your preferred choice either OIL, or LE.
I don't mind the "RAZZIN", Bess, 'cause I figured out how to hunt without using bait to get the ideal standing, still, broadside, level, shot at a single relaxed animal who doesn't see me draw my bow, and I thought about it long before we made baiting illegal. I simply re-arrange the furniture around water holes to create funnels and stop them from getting water while facing me. Now what concerns me is a possible petition to make water and/or water plants a "bait". Or moving stuff around a bit illegal. Since we now have to reduce success rates in order to have more tags, it looks like any device, method or strategy that brings more success is subject to the chopping block list! Hunting will soon just be that! "Hunting" period,Hey efa?
Takes A BIG Bait Pile To CHUM A Moose In!
(((RAZZIN Ya!)))
Or make pronghorn hunts (and management) both general and LE units like they do for deer, elk and turkey.
I'm not so sure that being able to apply and build points, as a NR, for every species isn't actually a curse! It only promotes points creep and many NR's who understand that hate the system that they're stuck with.Not to be a party pooper, but as a residence I have to choose and can only apply for one limited species and one once in a life time species. Why do non residence get to apply and build points for every species. Just saying.
Having to choose your species saves on point creep across the board and does not let a non residence build points for 30 years and then move to the state and hunt every species for 6-7 years in a row.
Just more app fees for the stateI'm not so sure that being able to apply and build points, as a NR, for every species isn't actually a curse! It only promotes points creep and many NR's who understand that hate the system that they're stuck with.
I'd have to think about it way more than I have to see a benefit. As I see it now, you'd apply for everything and the odds wouldn't really be any better.
Just my 2 cents, for free.
Zeke
Not to be a party pooper, but as a residence I have to choose and can only apply for one limited species and one once in a life time species. Why do non residence get to apply and build points for every species. Just saying.
Having to choose your species saves on point creep across the board and does not let a non residence build points for 30 years and then move to the state and hunt every species for 6-7 years in a row.
Several years ago, my wife was guaranteed a pronghorn tag on the unit we were applying her for. She wanted to wait until the next year to draw because we were going to go to Wyoming pronghorn hunting that fall.And that's why I just apply for an LE Pronghorn point along with an OIL bull moose tag. I'm 82 years old and already have a Pope & Young pronghorn and I'm close enough to a moose tag that I don't want an LE Archery Pronghorn tag bumping me out of the moose draw.
Not all of the nuances/unforeseen consequences have come to play yet…… after nearly thirty years of the point system introduction. The system we originally thought would be an equalizer and a guaranteed opportunity to hunt coveted units every few years. Tog just mentioned one that no one thought about thirty years ago and we still don’t know for sure how much it effect the future draw odds……. that being how old age drop outs, caused by not only declining animal numbers but unanticipated point creep coupled with shrinking odds and old age limitations being determined by people in their late fifties and early sixties.The Utah draw system isn't my favorite, but it's okay. the problem is how they allot the tags and so few bonus tags are given. hard not to have point creep when there are no bonus tags given.
Rather than have the NR hunters apply for 500 different hunts with almost no bonus tags, cut it to 50 hunts with 5 bonus tags each and burn some points up. numbers are just for reference, but you get the drift.
Bonus elk points in UT are pretty much worthless now unless you're in the top dog pool , or just under them like me where you can draw a so so tag.
Burning 25 points on a so so hunt was never my plan, but with reduce quality in the future and so few bonus tags for the good hunts I chose to cash it my points because I don't have another 25 years.
The state loves the money with the app feesI really really really wish that they made nonresidents pick only one limited entry and only one once in a lifetime like they do for the residents!
Because they only issue one NR tag for a bunch of the hunts. We are paying for a lottery ticket. But I may move in with you in a few years. Thanks for the idea.Not to be a party pooper, but as a residence I have to choose and can only apply for one limited species and one once in a life time species. Why do non residence get to apply and build points for every species. Just saying.
Having to choose your species saves on point creep across the board and does not let a non residence build points for 30 years and then move to the state and hunt every species for 6-7 years in a row.
Rich we can work that out. I'd have a blast scouting and spotting for you on all them species here in Utah for about 7 years. I know I drew my once in a life time tag a dozen years ago and don't expect to drew another before my time comes to an end. Be a good time and I don't need to be the trigger puller to enjoy time in gods country.Because they only issue one NR tag for a bunch of the hunts. We are paying for a lottery ticket. But I may move in with you in a few years. Thanks for the idea.
What rmanwill is saying is it sucks as a resident and needs to be changed.I'm not so sure that being able to apply and build points, as a NR, for every species isn't actually a curse! It only promotes points creep and many NR's who understand that hate the system that they're stuck with.
I'd have to think about it way more than I have to see a benefit. As I see it now, you'd apply for everything and the odds wouldn't really be any better.
Just my 2 cents, for free.
Zeke
Perfectly said!!!What rmanwill is saying is it sucks as a resident and needs to be changed.
A non-resident could buy a oil bp for every specie (and I’m sure there are plenty out there) for 30-35 years then move in to Utah and be max point holder in every category, drawing each oil tag for years in a row.
A resident never had this luxury.
We’ll see in 2040-2045 what happens. That’s when the bubble of NR specie point holders hit the 30 point mark after the 2009 change.Perfectly said!!!
I really really really wish that they made nonresidents pick only one limited entry and only one once in a lifetime like they do for the residents!
I doubt it will be all that exciting chasing 300” bulls on a OIL tag with the continued age class reduction.
50 F'N Points For a Chance at a 200" PISSCUTTER Bull!
At Least roadrunner will be Orgasmic about It!
Bess you burned 27 points last year, where is your 4 hundo bull? I know there was a couple killed on the unit.In Another 20 Years:
A Whole Bunch Holding Out For The 500" Bulls!
And I Quote:
I Finally Drawed With 50 Points!
Can Anybody Tell Me Where There Might Be a 200" Trophy Bull?
By Then a 200" Bull Will Be a Trophy If You Can Find One!
Perfectly said!!!
It doesn't effect me in the least other then down the road when very few may move to Utah just for the hunting reason. I'm a resident and non residents have no effect on my tags point creep.What I don’t hear you saying is you want a system like ours. I wouldn't if I were a resident. That would make your odds go to crap overnight.
Very few people will ever amass a bunch of points and then move to Utah for a decade or two. That’s what it would take. As I said, it crossed my mind, but it just isn’t feasible. Doubt you will ever get Utah to give up all that money from multiple NR species apps, but you could make a rule so if a NR moves there with points, they have to give up all but one species. Or they lose 50% of their points in all species. Pretty simple change.
Therein lies the lynch pin. We all think these big game bureaucracies are seriously considering eliminating point systems……… due to point creep, etc. ?????……..??????………. ??????……….,,,??????Of course the reason they did it was to entice more nonresidents to buy the license and collect more application fees.
In Another 20 Years:
A Whole Bunch Holding Out For The 500" Bulls!
And I Quote:
I Finally Drawed With 50 Points!
Can Anybody Tell Me Where There Might Be a 200" Trophy Bull?
By Then a 200" Bull Will Be a Trophy If You Can Find One!
Yeah that's why Bessy left the island and hasn't drawn an elk tag.
I would like to see Ut make a change so NR have to pick one species to draw bur you can still buy points for the rest. That way they still get their fees but theres less people in each of the species draws. Should help so many low point holders getting all the random tags.
Bess you burned 27 points last year, where is your 4 hundo bull? I know there was a couple killed on the unit.
Brother... pick a guaranteed draw next season and come hunt.!Have 21 NR elk points and counting. 78 this years time is running out.
But it prob won’t be you because of the “more”
From Utah: “Good luck and thx for the contribution”
“So you’re saying there’s a chance!”
So I read “hate to see what a 380 Pisscutter would do to some” not being able to walk for weeks and something about HUMPDAY! ?Would hate to see what a 380" PISSCUTTER bull would do to some - may not be able to walk for weeks I would guess! Bring a whole new meaning to HUMPDAY!!
So I read “hate to see what a 380 Pisscutter would do to some” not being able to walk for weeks and something about HUMPDAY! ?
I hope you aren’t writing it the way I’m reading it because I’d hate to see it als well and I I think that chit is illegal these days.
PM me and I can recommend a few shrinks.?
I doubt if the UDWR is eager to give incentives for people to spend less money on applications. More applications means more money.Point Creep – No one seems to want to sacrifice, but for someone who is willing to sacrifice consider adding one extra Gold Point (in other words a bonus/preference point to be used on the hunt they want) to those who are willing to only apply for ONE hunt. In other words, if you put in for the regular deer hunt and no other, you get a “Gold Point”. If you put in for a limited entry and no other you get a "Gold Point". If you put in for the regular hunt and a limited entry hunt you do NOT get the Gold Point. The Gold Points are good for a count for maximum draw points whether LE or regular unit draw.
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