Utah Draw Results

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WIDOW_MAKER

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Ok, so now that the draw results are posted and emails been sent out...what did you draw for? I know a lot of us knew that we drew something because our credit cards got hit, but were you surprised of the actual results?

Here is what I drew:

General Buck Deer 3rd Choice Plateau, Thousand Lake Archery

Wife drew:

General Buck Deer 2nd Choice Wasatch West Any Weapon

Father Drew:

Premium LE Buck Deer Pausaugant Muzzleloader

WIDOW_MAKER
 
Callin BS? Here, I have copied and pasted my email...as you can see hunt 1520 (ARCHERY) that I drew was my THIRD CHOICE!! My first choice was Rifle thousand lakes, second was Muzzleloader Thousand Lake and third was Archery thousand lakes. I Don't know how that worked out either, but it did.

Dear DEREK :

Thank you for your recent applications for the Big Game Drawing. Your results are:

Appl # Hunt # Result
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
155133 1550,1580,1520,1549,1583 General Buck SUCCESSFUL for hunt 1520 Plateau, Thousand Lakes
155135 6226, , , , Bull Moose UNSUCCESSFUL
155134 1015,1021, , , Buck Deer UNSUCCESSFUL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WIDOW_MAKER
 
Realy sucks to see Thousand Lakes turned into this GIANT
train wreck !!! That place is toast ..
I drew archery there in 2006 .. There were 20 permits ..
That seemed about right for that unit ...

NOW there's how many??

And on the draw results..
Wife and son BOTH drew archery antelope on the Paunsy/Dutton..
On top the , the wife drew archery deer on the Dutton..
Super fun Combo hunt!

And the boy drew Manti any weapon deer, gets all three hunts..
Plus I'll try and match up a cow tag with the "additional opportunity",,, 3rd year in a row of three month hunting!

4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
There are a lot of 2nd and third choices. I personaly do not know anyone that drew first choice. How was the draw done? Did they draw all first choices, then second and so on, or drew the individual and went 1,2,3??
 
My wife and I are the luckiest draw contestants ever! We both drew our points for elk and moose!!!!
 
THere are a lot of units that didn't go through the draw, and this is why 3rd choices were drawn. I even saw a limited entry elk archery unit with left over tags. Havn't seen this in a long time. I drew my first choice Wasatch West Archery
 
They go strictly by points. For example, if you have two preference points they draw for your first choice, second choice, third choice and so on before they move on to people with one point. So people with low or no point won't draw their first choice if it's a popular unit.

CSO

It's all about the good times...

MonsterMuleysLogo.png
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-12 AT 11:58AM (MST)[p]The UDWR SHOULD NOT use General Season points in relation to 2nd choice IF they are awarding points for unsuccessful 1st choice.

Here is an example. I have 2 points and apply for a tough to draw 1st choice hunt which takes 4 or more. I get a point for being unsuccessful and I get preference on a second choice unit over others with less points than me. The next year I have 3 points and still do not have enough points to draw the 1st choice, but my 3 points allows me preference for the 2nd choice again. The following year I have 4 points and may or may not draw my first choice unit but I will still have preference over others in the 2nd choice.

IF the UDWR allows a person to purchase a point as a first choice and then allow the hunter to apply for a 2nd choice tag that hunter will always have preference for the 2nd choice while he continues to build points.

My understanding is Colorado and Wyoming do not use points as a basis for awarding 2nd choices for deer and elk and a hunter does not lose points as a 2nd choice. Wyoming does use points in consideration of 2nd choices for Moose and sheep, but the hunter looses points when drawing those as a second choice.

Once again, Utah muddies the waters more than any other state when it comes to the way they issue permits to both public, private, and conservation issues. Too many cooks trying to tweak the system and failing miserably....


Oh and my wife drew Books Rifle.
 
It's the difference between "bonus" points and "preference" points. They are two totally different systems in the draw. You won't draw your second, third choices with bonus points unless there are left over tags. Preference points are done differently.
 
If the UDWR is allowing people to buy a Preference Point and then award 2nd choices by number of preference points, before they look at the first choices of lower applicants, then those with the highest points will draw every year. Preference points should not play a part in choices after the 1st choice unless an applicant looses points for any choice drawn.
 
Yes, those with the highest preference will draw first but then they are out of play for subsequent years.
This is actually better!
This way the applicant can't "bank" points and draw a lower choice unit.
If you don't want a 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice then don't apply for them because it will burn you pref points!
Just my thoughts.
Zeke
 
Zeke, I have heard of 4 people say they received a point and a 2nd or 3rd choice permit. 2 of those said they had family members with less points who did not draw the same unit as a first choice. The original poster said he drew 1000 Lakes archery as a 3rd choice, while I know a friend who did not draw the same permit as a 1st choice with 0 points. That is what seems wrong, and if true, is a huge problem.
 
Wyoming screwed this up the 2nd year they had points too. They gave a bunch of permits to Region H (and probably other units) to people who had 1 point and did not draw their first choice but had H as a second choice...ahead of everybody that put H as a first choice with 0 points.

It was obvious it happened as soon as they put out the odds reports...but it took a long time to convince the persons on the phone what the problem was.

For the sake of fairness...fortunately they changed it the very next year...but it would have been fun to hunt H every year until I pulled 102.
 
>Zeke, I have heard of 4
>people say they received a
>point and a 2nd or
>3rd choice permit. 2
>of those said they had
>family members with less points
>who did not draw the
>same unit as a first
>choice. The original poster
>said he drew 1000 Lakes
>archery as a 3rd choice,
>while I know a friend
>who did not draw the
>same permit as a 1st
>choice with 0 points.
>That is what seems wrong,
>and if true, is a
>huge problem.

I see what you're saying and it doesn't seem like it's working correctly. You're right, it is a problem!

Zeke
 
>If the UDWR is allowing people
>to buy a Preference Point
>and then award 2nd choices
>by number of preference points,
>before they look at the
>first choices of lower applicants,
>then those with the highest
>points will draw every year.
> Preference points should not
>play a part in choices
>after the 1st choice unless
>an applicant looses points for
>any choice drawn.

There was some discussion about this a few months ago. Check out 56 60 & 87. Appears they dont let them buy a point and apply for a tag and there has been "no negative feedback " about this draw process yet. Bet they'll get an earful now and they should! Kinda reminds me about the lifetimers fiasco. Wish the dwr would at least try to get it right the first time.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID30/1451.html#27
 
Packout, you sure those second and third choices that drew and had preference points weren't for a different weapon choice than their first choice and the guy with zero points that didn't draw first choice?

I also find it hard to believe that someone with 2 preference points didn't draw their first choice. How many people had preference points going into this year? For achery hunters it couldn't have been more than a handful that didn't draw last year. The year before there were left over archery tags after the draw.

I'll bet this year that 80% of the first choices fell on only a few of the 30 units leaving massive scrambling of things between the remaining choices. Next year will probably be the same as everyone trys to adjust and out think the rest of the crowd.

Cheers,
Pete
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-12 AT 07:48AM (MST)[p]I am no expert on the draw, but I am just adding up what I know and the answer I am getting is that they used the number of preference points to select 2nd choices and still gave points.

--------------------------
This is from the Guidebook:
Draw a permit, receive a preference point
If you hunt general-season buck deer, it's worth your time to mark more than just your first hunt choice when applying for a permit. If you aren't successful in drawing your first choice?but you draw your second, third, fourth or fifth choice?you will still receive a preference point.

For example, if you choose the Monroe unit as your first choice and the Cache unit as your second choice, and then you draw a permit for the Cache unit (your second choice), you will receive a preference point.

If you draw your first choice, you will not
receive a preference point.
--------------------------

So now we all know that points are only used if an applicant is successful in his first choice.

****HERE is where I think the problem comes into play----
From the UDWR web page concerning Preference Points:
If you draw a permit, you will typically forfeit your preference points for that species. However, you will not forfeit your general-season deer preference points unless you draw your first choice.********

In the past, preference points were used to determine successful applicants for all species (antlerless, general deer, ect) through all choices AND points were lost in drawing a permit. In the quote above it says that they changed General Deer to only lose points if a 1st choice is drawn. BUT I'd wager that the UDWR still use Preference Points to distribute the 2nd choices.

That is how Widow_Maker (congrats on the permit D, hope to see you down there) drew a 3rd choice archery on the 1000 Lakes and someone with 0 did not draw the permit as a 1st choice.

After adding up what little I know, it appears the UDWR drew all Gen Deer permits based off of points rather than the order of choice.
 
I personally think you should have to use your points for the draw. non of this crap where you get another point for not drawing first choice and still get to hunt. All this does is screw the guys that want to hunt that area as their first choice.




avatar_2528.jpg
 
How in the bleep do you draw 3rd choice on a hunt that has less tags than your 1st and 2nd choices. Am I missing something? Oh and I was lucky enough to get a consolation Northern Unit Squatch tag, I am so stoked cause I hear the squatch herd is way bigger than the deer herd up north.... Thanks UDWR
 
One thing I noticed in the new section of Utah regs was the mention if a general season hunt was not sold out they would add the available number of permits to another weapon hunt. For instance if all rifle permits did not sale out they would be added to muzzy. If all muzzy permits did not sale they would be added to archery. I wonder if this translates to the draw. For instance if all the archery deer hunts in a unit did not sale out in the draw to first choice people then they would go to 2nd or third choices. That is what I am seeing. I suspect this relates to general season hunts only. For more info check the www.wildlife.ut.gov website and look at the deer hunt numbers for 2012, along with the other details.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-12 AT 05:47PM (MST)[p]Wow did I ever luck out!

I should have been a lock to draw the only remaining NR preference Pauns archery tag with 15 points. It took only 12 the last 2 years. But with only one tag it takes only one guy bailing on the Henries for my hunt..........which someone did!

Anyway, whew did that guy ever end up saving me! I ended up beating 1% odds and drawing a slammer New Hampshire OIL trophy moose tag in zone C2! The state record bull was taken next door in C1 last fall. I would have had to turn my Pauns tag back in anyway. Wanted to devote 3 weeks of vacation days to the Pauns which would not have happened due to this NH OIL hunt.

Best odds I've ever beaten were 6% for my Nevada elk tag in 2006. Some of the sheep tags I apply for have better odds than this NH hunt!

So my season is set. 5 days scouting, 9 days hunting for NH moose, followed by 10 days for Iowa deer. Got that one scouted for already.

All's well that ends well.

********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, UBNM, UWC & the SFW Hate Club
 
Zim,

Congrats on the NH moose tag and the Iowa deer tag!

Hopefully you won't draw Mt. Emily now. I didn't draw my NR UT elk tag (nor anything else yet) so I could surely use a little of your luck at this point!

Good luck on your hunts!

Horniac
 
Zim,
great tag to have. If you need an outfitter I would go with Northern NH Guide service, I hunted with them back in 2005 and my dad in 2006. We both hunted unit B. They are THE best in that area. Dont waste your time with anyone else. PM me if you need more info. Good luck. I think I previuosly posted a picture of my bull which you can find if you search NH moose on a previous post.
 
Applied for 7 tags in 4 states last year and nada.
This year drew nv res. antlerless archery cow in 23-24, muzzy buck in 13, muzzy gen, in Panquitch, and LE archery bull in SW Desert. I'll turn in the archery cow tag in Nv and concentrate on the LE bull tag.
Good luck to all who drew and if I can help anyone, I will.
Ray
 

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