Utah Elk Committee Final Recommendations

[swbuckmaster]

it doesent even matter what unit you want to put in for. The way they want to manage it right now you will never be able to draw the tag. It is called point creep! Look at the pyrmid scheme the base is too large! cutting tags only increases the waiting period.

The state has began managing 93% of utahs Le elk herds like henry mtn deer. Age objectives is a hard way to manage deer or elk. especially when you get up there in age. some 15 year old bulls are dinks and some 4-5 year old bulls are monsters. All you have to do is look at deer and elk farms on farms to see this fact. Then throw in the fact that someone's will always shoot a lesser bull or buck and it throws the whole equation out of whack!

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[Silentstalker]

I am complaining and I apply for the wasatch or Manti or BC roaded units. All 3 hunts are for the archery tag. Always have and always will. I want to hunt elk. I have hunted Idaho and New Mexico and Utah several times. I do not need a 400 class bull behind ever tree to be successful. A guy should not have to leave his home state to hunt elk when we have the numbers of elk we have here.

This is not about unit choice but more of a long term deal. Our kids need a chance to hunt. There is no reason why some form of a compromise can not be met. I am totally in favor of keeping the units grouped as currently proposed in the new plan but I feel the age classes are too high on the mid units. Keep the premium units as constituted and the "inch" crowd can wait it out.

To increase age class on all those units when the units are currently still above objective and producing quality that meets demand as reflected by the draw odds even on the "mid range non premium" units is ridiculous.

I am not sure why it so hard for you guys to understand.

 

[adamsoa]

I'm not putting in for any of them. I've been hunting the general and putting in for deer. The way things are going it will be a long time before I draw a deer and I dont think I'll ever even get a shot at a LE elk.

I'm putting in for the Henries for deer this year. Not because I planned it that way. I juct couldnt draw anything. I've put in for all kinds of deer tags from the books to CWMU. Never even came close to drawing. Seems like I'll never draw a rifle tag so I decided to switch to archery. I have a few points and thought I'd give the Henries a try. Decided on the Henries because somehow I ended up with a ton of points. I'd have been tickled pink to draw any of the other units I've put in for. I never planned on having this many points. You might want to know would I like them to give more tags for that unit archery.......of course. All I've ever wanted is a good hunt. Like I said, I wanted rifle, but I dont want to wait another 10 years or so (and I wasnt putting in for the Henries....Just everywhere else). Thought I'd give archery a try. I think I can find and harvest a pretty good animal regardless of the unit if I put in my time. I dont have to be the only one hunting there.

respect my authorita

 

[fatherofthree]

+1 silent stalker

I'm an archery hunter and will be happy to hunt the wasatch/nebo/manti type units. I will only be able to do it every 10-15 years though after waiting periods.

 

[Tree]

Good post SS. It's like being forced to eat at a restaurant that only serves 1 thing.

 

[Prism]

Good deal if you have a lot of points, money to buy a tag, or stand to profit in some way from big bulls.

For some it stinks, for others it's a good deal. Just depends on what team you're playing for.

Pretty much guarantees a drawn le rifle tag in Utah will be OIL, and some will never draw.

Personally I don't like it!

 

[stbmldcgrvs]

I thought that the RMEF and SFW and other conservation groups were all about sound wildlife management. (sarcasm implied) When the bull cow ratios are all out of wack (way over healthy norms) the conservation groups want to grow bigger racked animals and reduce bull harvest? Does that make sense?

I have a very good source that reported that Don showed up to one meeting and suggested that utah leave the harvest age objective to move toward an antler inch objective. Such as units being managed for 360 inch and better etc. Does that sound like sound wildlife management principles?

Let's see what can we come up with next? SFW and RMEF can use their Habitat money to set up hormone growth stations on each of the premium units for the bulls to feed on. That would certainly result in bigger antlers and more 400 plus bulls and more importantly higher auction prices. Maybe they can slip them some viagra also so that we are sure that every possible cow is bred. Hey more opportunity!!!! <wink>

Here is another opinion of someone on the Elk Committee. Take a look. http://www.bowhuntersofutah.net

 

[Igottabigone]

From personal experience, I can tell you this plan will not work. My bro-in-law and I put in for and drew out the Southwest Desert Management tag the first year it was offered. We had a great hunt. Both of us killed management bulls. We saw 2 to 1 more bulls than cows during the hunt, which is not odd if any of you have been to the SWD. Most of the bulls were rag horns and broken bulls. My bro-in-law's bull was a big straight 5x5 that scored 330. The bull I killed was a 5x6 that scored 310. We were shocked when we received the tooth data back. My bro-in-law's bull was aged at 12 years old. My bull was aged at 9 years old. From this example, please tell me why an age-class management plan is better.

 

[Daxter]

There are a lot of data that show that age and boone and crocket scores are not highly correlated. Think of it like this, no matter how old I get or how well I eat I will never be over 7' tall. A 400 bull is like a 7' tall person. There are only so many around. The average guy is 5'10" fully grown, and the average mature bull is probably 320" or slightly smaller, average mature mule deer a 24-26" 160 buck. When you manage for age class it doesn't give a true indicator of score or trophy quality. Some guys will shoot a monster bull that is only 6 years old while other guys shoot 10+ yr old bulls that only score 315. Over the last few years age class has been increasing on most of the elk units in Utah while sportsmen have been complaining about a lack of trophy quality.

Personally I would like to see us choose 6-8 units that we manage for total monster bulls (San Juan, Monroe, Dutton, Pahvant, etc.) with rut hunts. Make another 10-15 units that are managed for good 6x6's 300-320 type bulls with non-rut season dates. And, make the rest of the state general season with a 4 point or better or brow tine restriction like CO has.

 

[hoytme]

Managing to harvest age objectives is like managing antler restrictions for deer. If you target a certain segment of the herd, whether it be inches, number of points on a side, there will be fewer of that targeted segment as a direct result. You can't force people to target a certain age class, and then expect there to be more of that age class.

 

[Prism]

Daxter,

Sure wish you were running the DWR! You've got my vote.

I have three Utah le bulls and the youngest bull (6.5 years) is the largest. The smallest bull is the oldest (10.5).

We may get Utah back to pre 2006 quality with this plan, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost. Especially for our deer herds and younger hunters. I think there are better ways to increase and sustain quality.

One thing for sure is that Utahs game management is just about like our weather. It'll change again.

 

[lilbowhunter]

I know that there is a lot of so called "data" that is looked at when making a proposal like this, so help me understand how units like Nebo and Diamond can have a higher proposed age objective than the Dutton???

 

[swbuckmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-10 AT 04:35PM (MST)[p]
>
>I know that there is a
>lot of so called "data"
>that is looked at when
>making a proposal like this,
>so help me understand how
>units like Nebo and Diamond
>can have a higher proposed
>age objective than the Dutton???
>

The nebo was a spike unit it didn't give out near as many big bull tags as the dutton did. however it slaughtered the spikes! So the bulls that were killed on the nebo were a touch older but not by much.

however you would be a fool to want to hunt the nebo over the dutton if you wanted quality!

Why? because they didn't kill the bulls before the genetic potential was reached!! since these big bulls are big mostly because of genetics and not age you have a larger base to of elk to select from. the odds of getting a good one are higher on a unit like the dutton.

spike hunts suck!!

nebo's last three years average age 6.3
duttons last three years average age 6.2

which tag would you want dutton or nebo?

Archery is a year round commitment!!

 

[huntin100]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-10 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]Dax,

It's not that complicated. You are exactly correct. Managing elk herds by age is plain stupid. Like many have said. It is not is the best interest of the future of elk hunting in Utah. It's not the best thing for healthy herds. As mentioned, I'm mainly interested in hunting 350 plus bulls. I'm a minority. It's not the best thing to manage for inches, and have that many units managed for the age classes that have been set.

Most 7-9 yr old bulls, in most units, will not be 350 plus bulls.

Does it make sense to make such goals?

Does it make sense to loose all that time in the mountains hunting. To find those few old bulls, that would score 350 plus. MY ANSWER AS WELL AS OTHERS. Maybe, in 6-8 units. But not in many of the units projected. AGE only data is a big mistake. A Big mistake/problem in many ways.

To the elk committee/ bioligists.
Let's see some data to PROVE that the MAJORITY of BULL elk 7-9 years old will grow antlers that will score 350 plus in B&C.

I think there is ample DATA to show other wise. Correct us if were wrong.

 

[high_country_hunter]

I personally do not agree with this plan. Like many others have mentioned it looks like this plan is catered to those how have a pile of points, big time trophy hunters, outfitters, CWMU operators, and those with the money to buy conservation tags. What about your average Joe/Jill hunter, what about the younger hunters coming up, what about other species(especially Mule Deer), what about the ranchers who supply the beef we eat, what about the hunting tradition?

I worry that so many are caught up in the me, me me mentality that we are segregating ourselves from each other. If you look back through the posts you see a war of hunters against hunters. We're all on the same team here guys!

I think we can can have something for everyone. We can have big bulls, we can have opportunity for all weapons and most importantly we can have healthy herds. It upsets me when I hear someone telling another, "if you don't like it-go hunt somewhere else." Are you serious?

Those of you who know me know that I like hunting mule deer more then anything. I am very concerned for the mule deer in this state. I'd like to know if any thought went into how more elk are going to affect a struggling mule deer herd.

Who knows?