Utah is now LE throughout the state for deer

BS is what it is! Its been brought up time and time again that the way we hunt is not the factors wiping out the deer herds!

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
All of the board members were stressing decreasing fawn mortality , increasing predator control, and decreasing highway mortality. All that with hunter regulation and it will increase the herds.
 
YEY!!! NOW we are all LE hunts in UTah. So now all the special interest groups will take 5 % of all those tags and decrease our opportunity even more.

MORE BUCK=MORE FAWNS
MORE FAWNS=MORE DOES
Because bucks are the ones giving birth to the fawns, right?
ALL OF THIS EQUAL BS!!!

It should be just the opposite.

If we have 5 bucks or 30 bucks to 100 does, we are still getting the same amount of return on new crop. WHY TAKE AWAY THE OPPORTUNITY WE HAVE. LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER FACTORS!!!
 
5 bucks cannot get around to 100 does so maybe 30 can that is how we will increase the deer herd and fawn crop. I have seen herd after herd of does that have no buck in with them, it takes two to tango.
 
Savage, you are wrong! The state started becoming LE when the sell of deer tags over the counter stopped. Even in the last 2 years you had to put in for a tag during the draw, otherwise you weren't getting a tag for that fall.

I am excited, some area's will take longer to draw. But when you have that tag in your pocket. It will be a much more enjoyable hunt.
 
>The state will still have LE
>deer units, the whole state
>is not LE.....there are 29
>general units...
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

If you take an area, limit the number of Hunters in order to increase the buck to doe ratio higher than necessary to breed the does.....it's LE. Welcome to UT the LE state.........

At least we can still ski.....hope I can draw a season pass.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 03:23PM (MST)[p]You guys are making up your own definition of "LE"

LE tags have their own "bonus point" system

General tags have a "preference point" system

THIS IS NOT CHANGING (for now....)

YOU CANNOT USE YOUR "PREFERENCE POINTS" FROM NOT DRAWING A SOUTHERN TAG THIS YEAR TO APPLY TOWARDS A BOOK CLIFFS TAG IN 2012.

I am not arguing ideals or thoughts......JUST STATING A FACT;

LE and GENERAL deer tags are NOT the same and that is NOT changing.....

holy shiz guys...

We now have;

Premium Limited entry;
(Henries and Pauns)

Limited entry;
(BC, Vernon, DT, etc..)

General Season;
29 new units

That's all I am saying....


-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/
 
AndymanSavage, you are right.....technically.....it's not becoming a part of the current LE system. We get that... But how do you create a LE unit? You LIMIT the number of hunters in order to raise the number of bucks with the idea of having more and older bucks.

Potato vs Patato.

The 29(or 35) new units will be just like LE in the fact that some are going to take more 'Preference' points to draw...just two different LE systems going on now. One system you may or may not have better odds depending on the unit you put in for......
 
If they are going to 29 units I would like to see them do away with the limited and premium limited entry units and make i all the same. If you want to wait 10 to 15 years to draw a pauns or henrys tag then you wait if you want to hunt every year or every other then you put in for the lesser popular areas. That would also make the pauns and henrys easier to draw if you are willing to wait cause there would be alot of people not willing to wait.
 
They are still general hunts, not Limited Entry. The tag numbers will be based off current hunter data. I think we will all be surprised how many hunters still get to hunt those 29 units.

If the general units were considered LE, then you would not be able to apply for a deer and elk tag in the same year in Utah under the current law.

As is you can still hunts "general" on the 29 units and apply for your deer, elk, antelope, moose, bison, bighorn sheep, Mt. Goat hunts in the draw. You will even be able to hunt a unit for general deer and a LE (elk, deer, or antelope)or (once in a lifetime hunts) in the same year.
 
Dillon, The way you have that written a person could go ML deer on one of the 29 units and also go LE deer in the same year. That can't be right, or is it correct??
 
The units were created to get the 18-50 buck to doe ratios. They want bookcliff or better buck to doe ratios state wide. The tags will have to be massivly slashed state wide. Here comes 6+ year waits for a general tag.

F SFW!!

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The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
This is nothing more than obamacare reincarnated. We had to pass it to find out what is in it.

You guys have no idea what they will do with the 29 units. By the way the Premium LE and LE deer units are currently part of the 29.

Now we wait to see how the DWR implements the few paragraph direction that was voted on today.

Did anyone else notice that the only group interested in this whole cluster was the SFW, their spokesmen and a few of the board members. Something like 85% of the sportsman in Utah are against it. Even our good friend John Bair stood up and said what was right!

The three RAC's that voted for it were split roughly 60/40 and represent 30% of the hunters in the state. The two RAC's who voted against it were unanimously so. They represent 70% of the hunters in this state.

Can you say Obamination all over again?
 
One thing I have heard over & over... In coffee shops, on these forums, at work.. whatever - is " The DWR is in it for the money " Finally they are taking action based on input from all parties. This plan looks similar to the wildlife management plan our neighbors have implemented and been successful with.

Let's give it a chance!

BTW C3, I'm sure it's Obamas fault your teeth are crooked & your wife is screwing around on you. Give it a rest!

Slick
 
Slick, I'll never give it a rest when the politicians do things that the overwhelming majority of Utah's sportmen disagree with.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% of Utahs big game hunters object to the concept of statewide LE deer hunting yet "our" Wildlife Board has just directed the DWR to implement exactly what we don't want.

The DWR didn't do this. The Wildlife board did this and there is a no more politically appointed group in charge of anything in our state.

When a politically appointed group goes against the wishes of 85% of the population there is a serious problem at hand. Wouldn't you agree?

By the way, my wife of 28 years is standing right here laughing at your suggestion. It was actually quite funny :)
 
C3, glad your wife could get a chuckle. I meant no offense.

However, where do you come up with 85% of Utahs big game hunters?

You should get a talk show on AM radio with those kind of statistics.

Seriously... lets have this discussion in 5 years. Only then will we know if the plan was succesful.

Slick
 
Like said before I think that we were choosing the less of three evils. But I am glad it has passed, now if they will utilize what they got and enforce things properly I think it could be a good thing. - I do wonder what suprizes,, it comes with I sure hope there is nothing we don't know about. I see where you "Opprotunists" are coming from but Bottom Line the deer #'s Need some serious fixing.
 
Sorry Andy, there are currently 30 deer management units :) These are roughly what we will have as LE units when all is said and done.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/hunting/408-unit-deer-management-plans.html

Slick, I'll have to admit my 85% is a bit of a stretch. The northern and Central RAC's voted unanimously against option 2. They represent 70% of all Utah big game hunters. The other three RAC's voted roughly 60%/40% for option 2 and represent 30%of all Utah's big game hunters. This gives roughly 70% + 40%*30% or roughly 82% of all Utah big game hunters as represented by their RAC votes.

If we could see the actual poll numbers on these proposals it would be about the same. These types of forums are not typical of the average Utah hunter. As a group we are significantly more hardcore and not representative of the population as a whole.

I have no doubt this action by the board will result in more and larger bucks on the mountain, but at what expense? To be like our elk herd that you get to hunt once every 15 years? More and bigger bucks was listed as the 10th highest priority on the latest DWR poll.

There's one thing we will all agree on and that is that we'd like to do what ever it takes to see more deer in Utah. How we get there is a completely different thing. This action by the Wildlife board goes against the wishes of the vast majority of Utah's sportsmen and has an ulterior motive that is far from the desire to see more of us hunt more and bigger bucks every year.

Cheers,
Pete
 
C3... Know your facts!!! The Premium LE & LE units are NOT part of the 29...
If you didn't like how they voted you should have been there to voice your opinion!!!
Besides it doesn't really matter, the problems with the deer herds aren't gonna be solved by how many units/regions there are...

CSO

It's all about the good times...

MonsterMuleysLogo.png
 
You know the wildlife board had me fooled today as I listened via the live stream. With all their comments about the power point presentations that the DWR gave them on the different causes of the deer decline. They repeatedly appraised the great info the was presented and having listened to those presentation on Wednesday I personally came away with the main reason for the decline was 1- Predation (Coyotes). They did cover that highway mortality was just as much as hunter harvest but by far coyotes were the number one threat and it needed a heck of a lot more attention than hunter control. Anyway the WB praised them and commented on those presentations and told stories and cried and expressed concern that taking tags really worried them and it even went against one's business belief. And in the end when it came to vote the chairman was so eager to give the motion he fumbled over his own words and admitted his eagerness to get on with it and then finally he jumped right to a "pre written" motion on option 2 with out even a motion on option 1. They know all along that 2 was it and they just totally crushed me. Not that I am for or against 2, personally I think this needed to be debated more especially since this doesn't go in to effect until 2012. They could have decided to revisit this in the spring or even mid summer. It really is a bunch of BS but what is one hunter suppose to do?
 
you guys need to quit your crying sounds like a bunch of complainers no matter what they do you cry think about it the way it has been in the past you hade every hunter in the sate or that region pushing the whole mountain one canyon at a time one canyon a day stearing up the deer herds and the elk putting huge amount of stress on them right before the rut and the go into winter weakening the deer herds causing deer to not make it through the winter stressed out does to weak to carry a fawn now it will spared out the hunters into smaller groups and it is going to take a wile but i bet in 5 years utah is going to have one of the strongest deer populations in the west and the buck to doe ratio will be awesome also i agree they do need to make some tag cuts ------------- AND NOW WE NEED TO WORK ON ARE ELK HERDS GET RID OF HALF THE SPIKE TAGS DO AWAY WITH THE LATE HUNTS AND THE EXTENDED HUNTS IM SORRY IF YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR ANIMAL ON THE FIRST GO AROUND TUFF LUCK THAT'S HUNTING TRY AGAIN NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Jeff, do you have the exact wording of what was passed today?

There was a very specific discussion of not changing the current deer management units in the state. The map presented in the previous post by Big is a departure from the management units we currently have and not what I believe they suggested in the actual verbage of the directive voted on today.

Proposals and what the Wildlife board actually votes on are often very differnt beasts.

The current LE units are included in the existing management units. Jim was very clear that to change those, we would have to go back to the RAC process as that would be a significant departure from what the motion called for.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Not trying to be a ##### and I know i'm not the smartest, or good with my grammar. But maybe next time add a comma or period. I couldn't even figure out what your even saying.
 
Dang Boner I couldnt understand your post cause all it did was go on and on without any periods or commas or anything its kind of weird typing like this and not using any grammar wow i am getting dizzy just trying to read what i am saying do you understand what i am saying because i dont heheheheheh PERIOD....
 
I sure would have liked to give my kids a chance at hunting. This plan is a complete and utter joke! Tag prices just went up, statewide archery is gone, hopes of a tag almost every year is a gonner.

Some of you are partialy right and wrong on the LE units. The LE units ARE included within the 29 units. HOWEVER they are still bound by the same boundries they've always had. You can't hunt them on a general tag. You still have to draw a LE tag for those units. Just some more of the screwy underwritting of this mess that has been created.

Way to go Wildlife Board, you screwed the pooch on this one, again! Thanks for listening to politicians and big money once again.

Don Peay and SFW, piss off! Don, you stated yourself you no longer hunt within the state of Utah. If that's true, get the hell out, and quit sticking your nose into what's going on here. If you no longer contribute "YOUR" money to the state, you should no longer have a say in what is done with "OUR" wildlife.

I still can't figure out why people cower to this guy. He's in it for one thing and one thing only, MONEY! I sincerely hope this will be overturned sooner than later. Just like Obama, this is one big a$$ mistake! You can keep your change, and I, along with alot of others be standing here to tell you, we told you so, when this all blows up. This plan will not work here.
 
I can understand your fear of change but look at colorado. They got rid of all their OTC deer tags, every unit is a draw. You can shoot a monster buck in basically any unit, yet there are some obvioulsly better than others.
Yes CO and UT are different states with different habitat restrictions but give it a chance. The one thing that is screwing your whole system though is having different point pools! You need it to where all the units are under the same points system. That would clear up a lot of the jamming and move people through the system a whole lot faster.



Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
The scary part is they passed "Option 2 WITH FLEXIBILITY"

So now we are at the mercy of the word "Flexible". Now the WB can do what ever they want without our input because the decision was "Flexible".

THEIR MOMS ARE FLEXIBLE!!!!
 
The flexibility simply allows a loophole for those who thought Option 2 was the greatest thing since sliced bread to come back in 5 years and say "It wasn't our fault.....it was the DWR or the WB who changed it and messed it up." It just allows them to place blame somewhere else and take NO personal responsibility.
 
Just a thought here...

...say they decide to include our current LE units and use only one point pool for ALL deer tags, similar to Colorado.

It would stand to reason that residents would then have to choose only between LE elk or LE antelope on the application, with no more LE deer as a third option.

Can you imagine what that would do to an already over-saturated LE elk point pool?? Yikes.

The two point pools for deer does seem kind of weird at first glance, but there would definitely be consequences in the pools for other species (elk mainly) if the WB decides to combine to one single deer point pool.
 
The point thing is just another convoluted mess. There is no way they can combine points now. All the CWMU's and LE (as currently in place) units many of us have points for deer toward those units. This would create an uproar by everybody. The fact that I may apply for an archery deer tag for the LE unit Henry Mtns with 10 pts and knowing I'm not going to draw. I would have a guarantee deer tag currently because I bow hunt and those are easier to obtain. But basically if they combined everything I either would burn 10 points on a lesser unit or not hunt deer in this state for 15 more years.
 
That's exactly right SuperSlam...I can't see how combining the general and LE deer point pools could ever work. Lots of guys wanting that though.
 
>The flexibility simply allows a loophole
>for those who thought Option
>2 was the greatest thing
>since sliced bread to come
>back in 5 years and
>say "It wasn't our fault.....it
>was the DWR or the
>WB who changed it and
>messed it up." It just
>allows them to place blame
>somewhere else and take NO
>personal responsibility.

Good lord I would be happy if they waited 5 years to jerk with things. What will happen is next Nov. their will be a list of "improvements" that will be made. Before their is any data, before we are done hunting, before we see how the herds survive winter, we will have changes sure as the sun coming up! Notice how the bulls/bucks RAC isn't the week after the draw results are out, after winter, after data is in, after does start popping out fawns? It takes them a year to do tooth data, 5 months to do the draw, and they can make changes 2 weeks after the hunt ends? And these are the biology professionals WE PAY to manage OUR HERDS? All three of the options, in my opinion, if left alone for lets say 10 years would improve the buck to doe ratio. BUT, if jerked with none will, and the flexibility loophole is just that, a window to play with things. It is how they shuck responsibility. THEY came up with a plan, voted on it, are now selling it to us. If it works they should get the credit, if it doesn't then jobs are lost, budgets slashed etc. But giving them a hole means they can wiggle. Sign your name to the damn plan RAC, WB, DWR and lets roll for a decade. In ten years either we have deer and lots of them, or we get a whole new managmenet agency! FLEXIBILITY??? GOOD LORD!!! "do you take this man to be your lawfull spouse in sickness and health till death do you part, or at least with some flexibility"! NICE WORK WB!!!!
 
It is human nature to fear change. I really feel that some are over reacting and this change is long over due.
Our neighboring states have implemented this long ago. You should only fear this change if you feel that Utah hunting is currently the best in the west.

The deer point pools need to be combined.
You should only lose your points if you draw your first choice. If you do not draw your first choice you receive another point.
So keep putting Henrys down as your first choice and put Box Elder as your second. You will still be able to hunt deer every year if you want to in lesser units.

Now keep in mind this LE structure will allow us to control tag #'s across the state. The lesser unit should show improvements after a few years. If a unit still struggles after hunting pressure has been limited the DNR will be forced to look at habitat and predators.

This plan allows the DNR to manage specific areas.
I wonder when they will admit the old plan did not give them total control.

I am wondering why the special interest groups votes were even acknowledged???
 

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