What is hunting?

[Zeke]

My brother and I were sitting here trying to figure out what constitutes hunting.

We all know some of our hunts have been tough, some have been easy, some long, some short etc but it's all been hunting. It can't be just about the challenge because a long range shot is challenging even if the animal is staked down.

Our best thought came when my brother said that all real hunting has to have a "threat of failure".

The more I think about it the more I have to agree.
It's real hunting if the threat of failure exists. As in, you might actually go home without killing an animal.

My opinion is that everything else is just shooting. This can be fun and even rewarding but it's not hunting.

Give me your thoughts.

Zeke

 

[Blanding_Boy]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p]So your a the glass is half empty kind of guy right. I don't completely disagree BUT if its just the 'threat of failure' I'm going to get rich off of selling turtle hunts. I also believe the 'threat of failure' exist on places that are high fenced or what ever you were referring too (if you were). There is the threat of failure in missing, wounding, even not seeing your quarry. So perhaps the actual definition of failure needs to be expanded upon in your meaning of hunting.

To me there has to be at least some probability of success (animal in hand) or 'opportunity' of seeing or even shooting at your quarry. So I guess my definition of hunting would be more along the lines of 'the opportunity to harvest/take something which you paid for with a legal weapon. By this I mean a guy ought to at least see the animal he has a tag/permit for while on the outing.

If state agencies didn't or don't at least provide this one thing, they are doomed to fail.

If you don't have the opportunity, you might as well just go shooting

Todd Black

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http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum

 

[Zeke]

I like your thoughts.

My intent was to define the difference between hunting and everything else which some try to pass off as hunting. On that, I wasn't clear.

Just a thought about your post; the possibility of success is present on every outing even the ones which are far from fair chase hunting. You're right that hunting does include the success possibility but so does a canned hunt.

What are your thoughts on what seperates "real" hunting from everything else?

Zeke

PS: I'm not fishing for a specific answer. Much has been said about fair chase vs everything else and I'm trying to define the difference.

 

[one_dryboot]

hunting is an attempt to kill. pursuing of an animal on public, private or even high fence is a form of hunting. no matter where we are, we are still trying to kill that animal, therefore it is a form of hunting. we might not agree with the method of take, but it is still hunting.

 

[TOPGUN]

I think I'm in close agreement with Zeke and less with B_B in that it's nice to have the expectation to see your quarry, but not really necessary to call it hunting. I have argued/debated until I'm blue in the face that hunting can be accomplished on a fenced property if it's big enough and has the proper terrain and cover for the animal that is being hunted. Some don't agree and that's fine as long as no name calling takes place like it usually does on their part. The high fenced ranches that have thousands of acreas may be easier to take an animal because of the way they are managed and I'm not talking about having a feeder every 100 yards to where the game depends on them for their existence! I'm talking about land management, taking does so there is proper buck to doe ratios, etc. It is these small high fence "canned hunt" places that basically "guarantee" an animal for a set price because they don't meet what Zeke has stated in his post. I abhor those types of places because many people consider them hunting when it's just basically shooting and killing for a set, guaranteed price. That is not what hunting is all about IMHO. There is a thread in the NM Forum right now about a place called "Pearsons Ranch" and part of their operation is a small acreage where they advertise guaranted hunts for raghorn bulls for $2700+ up to large bull elk for over $20,000 and it's done by so much money per inch depending on what the animal scores. One person stated they have to scare the animals away from the gate with paintball equipment so the perspective shooter will feel it's more realistic! That is absolutely deplorable to "farm" a majestic animal like that for $$$.

 

[Zeke]

One-boot, I know you felt the "threat of failure" on your sheep hunt. It can be a very real threat while hunting sheep. That's one of the many the reasons they are my favorites.

When and if I decide to "hunt" a ranch for bison, will it be hunting or shooting? (I've never done anything like that before)I really don't know the right answer.

There has been so much fury lately about what is "real" hunting that I just had to ask you experts.

Todd, BTW, I'm the most optomistic guy you'll ever meet. I'm just struggling for a definition.

Zeke

 

[one_dryboot]

By definition yes it is considered hunting. Can and will it feel like hunting? I dont know. But anytime someone is trying to kill something, it is a form of hunting, just not the kind I like to do.
On my sheep hunt, I feel that is probably as close to a high fence, guaranteed hunt as you can get without the high fence. Other then its some nasty country. The unit has tons of sheep and its set up for 100% success and it is achieved every year. its a unit you can kill a ram every single day if you choose to pull the trigger. Now, I worked my butt off and passed on a good number of rams every day. Because it is a 100% kill, does that mean its just a shoot? I dont think so

 

[nickman]

Hunting is a relative term. It means different things to different people.

As I have aged, I no longer have the requirement to even have a season open to go "hunting". I still have the passion and the desire, but my intensity level is WAY below the younger guys.

Sometimes I take a camera, or just the optics and head out to find a deer, elk, eagle or whatever nature might put in my path. Most of the time, I have no desire or compulsion to kill something. It is still hunting for me.

That said, I am 98% prepared to let the air out of any coyote I see.....and I look HARD for the opportunity to do so......mostly 5 or 6 mornings a week, literally minutes from my house. I get a lot more of an adrenalin rush hunting coyotes than I do with any other animal I hunt......and I can do it every day.

There are guns in my vehicle every day of the year. I always laugh when they bust a druggie who has a gun and 50 rounds of ammo. The press would turn me into a MAJOR league terrorist, under the circumstances.

I am fortunate to live in a very dense wildlife area, so I have continous opportunity to stalk animals, just as if I had a tag in hand. I get the same rush as if it were an actual hunt situation......but that is just me.

I fully understand and appreciate the exitement of guys that live some distance from hunting opportunities, and their intense desire to make their rare hunting trip a success.

If I take youngsters, or "flatlanders" with me, it's always funny to see them squirm over not actually taking an animal.

"Fathom the hypocracy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove that they are insured.....but not everyone must prove that they are a citizen"

 

[marley]

I was asked in a college english class to define something I love in one paragraph, this is what I wrote.

I have been asked several times throughout my life what it is about hunting that fuels every part of my being. I don't know that it is explainable. I've tried to pin point the one thing that describes my passion. I can't. It's the first chime of the alarm on opening day at 3 A.M. It's the feel and the smell of my worn out boots as I pull the laces tight. It's the sight of my own breath in the frigid temperatures of the morning. It's the calm quietness of the mountain as I step out of my truck. It's the weight of the pack on my back as the straps are pulled tight. It's the shared grin with your huntin' buddy as you hit the trailhead and absolutely no words are needed between you to know exactly what they are saying in their head. It's the vibrant colors of the leaves as they shake with the breeze. It's the crunch of the snow under your boots. It's the ground shaking sound of a bull bugling in the hollow below. It's the crack of the rifle, the smoke of the muzzleloader, and the hiss of the arrow in flight. It's the painfully heavy pack as you head back to camp. It's the stories and comraderie around the crackling fire. It's the memories that usually get better as they age. It's one of these things and all of these things. It's hunting!

That is hunting to me. What I'm hunting DOES NOT MATTER!!

 

[justr_86]

Sacred experience looking for something. I don't have to kill something to have a sucessfull hunt (co-worker says its another way of saying I'm a loser).

 

[Zeke]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]marley, You've certainly expressed Ideas about the passion and romance of the hunt. I feel the same things when afield.
Zeke

 

[Zeke]

Success comes in many forms. Otherwise scouting would be a chore instead of a celebrated event.
Nickman hit on this idea also.

 

[one_dryboot]

+1 marley

 

[marley]

I had alot of anti's in my class when I wrote that and that's why I wrote it. The point of it was that I don't have to kill something to consider it hunting. If you absolutely have to kill something in order for you to call it hunting....you're in the wrong game.

....If you find a message from myself offensive, inappropriate or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will demonstrate.....

 

[one_dryboot]

zeke,
I think it boils down to how you feel. When im out hunting I have no problem with setting up and killing an animal at 600+ yards if I cant get any closer. and its just as exciting and enjoyable. But then the next guy will say thats not hunting, its shooting and its unethical. Some say its hunting, some dont.

If you choose to kill your buff on a ranch and it turns your crank, do it! you still have to put forth effort, persue the animal to get er done.

 

[TOPGUN]

The post by Marley is about as good as I could ever explain why I'm out there with or without a game tag. It says it all!!!

 

[Zeke]

The more I read and hear, I realize there are about as many different reasons to hunt as there are hunters.....and about as many interpretations of what constitutes hunting.

I love scouting as much as hunting but it has a different feeling altogether.... for me. Because of difference, I don't call it hunting.

Your statements about not needing to kill to enjoy a hunt is also how I feel, but while hunting there is the real prospect that I will. I still have the drive to end a hunt successfully.

I certainly know why I hunt and I know what feels right to me.

So is "real" hunting simply about the way we feel about a situation? If it feels right, it is? Is that why there are so many opinions about hunting? Trophy quality etc?

Thanks for your thoughtful posts,
Zeke

 

[chubchub]

Hunting to me is not a word that can be explained in one sentence and has many words that describe it. It is a passion that everytime I load up and head out it puts a burning desire to be in gods country with his creations and the challange of finding what your looking for and stumbling on the sightings you encounter along the way. The reward of the company you are with who are usually the most important people in your life the lessons learned the memories made and a when time to leave the burning desire that stays with you until you return. I guess it is the challange and the reward that you get everytime I go out with the reward being the experiance itself in no way shape or form do you have to kill to have success or reward!!! I had LE late elk tag this year spent 14 days on the mountain took 12 years to draw spent it with family met new friends and a lot of time alone I ate my tag but it was one of the most sucsessful hunts I have ever had. An experiance and a memorie that will stay with me to the grave!!!

 

[2lumpy]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-11 AT 12:27PM (MST)[p]hunting, for me is the act of looking or searching for something. It might be my eye glasses in the morning or a mule deer to take a picture of.

hunting, is searching for a specific item for a specific reason.


I do not consider hunting to be the same as shooting, camping, hiking, site seeing, or many of the other outdoor activities I enjoy.

When I go fishing, and I'm on the road to the lake or the river, I don't consider that hunting. However, the next day I may be traveling the exact same route, looking to take a picture of an elk. How I'm hunting elk.

This year I had a moose tag and I killed a moose. I hunted less than 3 hours then shot it. However my son spent all summer looking for a moose for me to shoot. He did the hunting, I did the shooting.

DC

 

[Zeke]

Interesting perspective. Thanks.
Zeke

 

[Packout]

My wife hunts for deals at the mall. I hunt for work. My dad hunts for cows at the auction. 2 hunts for his glasses (I like that line). I hunt for my son when he isn't home and it is past 10. Lots of types of hunting, but not what I consider Hunting. We had a decent discussion last year when some questioned if Utah's Any Bull hunt was a real hunt and why people buy Any Bull tags. (The Utah Any Bull elk hunt is one of my favorite hunts each year)

Hunting to me is having the weapon in my hand and a tag in my pocket. It is how hard I want to work that day in an attempt to find and pursue a quarry that has the ability to escape me. It is much of what Marley stated. It might be a short Hunt or it might be a long Hunt. It is not about killing or shooting, although that must be a possibility to consider it a hunt.

I enjoy scouting and viewing wildlife when I do not have a tag. I enjoy scouting even more when I have a tag. I enjoy tagging along with friends or family who have a special tag. But NOTHING compares to throwing the sling over my shoulder or picking up my bow to go Hunt. I must have a weapon and permit to have the ultimate Hunting experience, chasing animals which can escape me- even if I do not kill something.

 

[Zeke]

I agree. The aminals must be able to escape if I'm going to call it hunting. There's that "threat of failure" that I was talking about.
Zeke

 

[Dikndirt]

Zeke, Hunting in the early days was drivin around in the 55 with 2 loaded shotguns and the 61 ready to pull the trigger on dang near anything.My how the times have changed!

 

[TOPGUN]

Just got done watching a show on the Sportsman Channel called "Extreme Outer Limits" with a couple named Beck. About all I can say is the gal was cute, LOL! They "killed" two huge elk at long range on a ranch in western Nebraska and when I looked up the place on the net it is only 1500 acres under a high fence. I went right onto the show's website and sent them an email saying the show was a farce if they called killing elk in a 1500 acre enclosure "hunting" and that it was the first and last time I would be watching their show and that message was also being sent to the Sportsman Chaneel. Everybody that sees crap like that on TV should do the same IMHO.

 

[Zeke]

>Zeke, Hunting in the early days
>was drivin around in the
>55 with 2 loaded shotguns
>and the 61 ready to
>pull the trigger on dang
>near anything.My how the times
>have changed!

We certainly had alot of fun together!
I'll always have fond memories of our good old days.
We're both a bit more civilized nowadays....but not by much. LOL

Your friend,
Zeke

 

[Zeke]

You're right Topgun, That's NOT hunting. It might take shooting skill and it might be fun..... but hunting it's not.

Zeke

 

[Grizz]

Its about the chase, the setting and a rich heritage. Not so much about the kill but the anticipation of man verses quarry. The place is sacred. Junipers, pines, desert, red rock, deep canyons, the spectaular to the stillness of a big pine slope...unpredictable yet calculated risk but always ethical. The kill demands that moment of elation and pride balanced with the quiet prayer of thanksgiving. This tradition runs deep ...tied to the legacy of our fore fathers who trekked these same slopes for family survival. Is it survival for us? In a different way..it gives us that needed respite from the rat race. A time to refresh and recharge. It can be solitary, or a bonding time for a father & son, or a band of brothers making memories. It's dutch oven potatoes, a shrill scream of a bull, a warm crackling fire, a trudge through an impossible stand, a daunting vista , and the fury of a snow blizzard. The chase, the sacredness of place, and a rich tradition...that's why we come back time and time again. What an amazing blessing we all share.

 

[booner76]

To me there is a huge difference in hunting and killing.
I havent read the different post's yet so this may be dangerous for me or even a repeat of what others have said.

Hunting is the pursuit.
Killing is simply....killing, anyone can do it.
unless there is a level of acceptable risk involved (a miss that matters cause you may not get another shot)

But there arent many true "hunters" anymore.

I like to remember my great grandfather and how and why he hunted and trapped, that I believe is the way God intended.

IMHO I will never consider any form of High Fence or controlled "Hunt" hunting.

booner.

 

[completesportsman]

I like this quote, it sums up how I feel about hunting.

?In the joy of hunting is intimately woven the love of the great outdoors. The beauty of the woods, valleys, mountains, and skies feeds the soul of the sportsman where the quest of game whets only his appetite. After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope, 1923

 

[booner76]

Perfect. +1

booner.

 

[hossblur]

I am in with the process guys. That is why my rants against Mossback or the money guys. IN MY OPINION hunting is about the planning: how much food, where to camp, what clothes, where, when how. Its about the preparation: scouting, shooting, sharpening. Its about the knowledge: scouting, reading, time in the field. Its about the experience: time with friends and family, tradition. It has little to do with killing. I kill, some years if you include birds I kill a lot. But success rates, and blood have little to do with it. That why my rants against the outfitter industry, and yes I understand thats my view, but if you pay someone else to do everything else BUT the killing I think it is a much different experience.

The best duck hunt I have had this year was out in the Slough, pre light with thousands of swans "talking" all around us. The best big game hunt was the opener of the muzz hunt, my 5 year olds first opening day. Neither day did I pull a trigger, both days took a lot of effort, and a lot of anticipation, both were hunting, none were killing. In my opinion if you know the success rate of kill, and that is how you choose your hunts, your more of a butcher and less of a hunter, IMO.


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!

 

[booner76]

+1 Grizz

 

[Zeke]

I have loved your responses!

My thoughts and feelings are very close to all yours expressed above. You are an intelligent bunch of folks!

After 40+ years of hunting, I still have the passion, respect and love for the hunt. Years ago I was told that I'd lose this passion as I aged. Not so, I have a deeper love and respect for the animals and fair chase than ever before. Especially since my kids have been able to participate in the chase. This is now where I receive the greatest joy. My granddaughter went on her first hunt this Fall. She was blessed with the joy of fair chase success (her dad got a buck).

Some words keep coming up as a common thread; Honor, fair, legal, effort, love, respect, sharing, family, friends, and many other words on which we all agree.

Resectfully, Zeke