Wolves

Can someone fact check this? I heard a rumor that wolves now can’t be reintroduced now because ones migrated in and they are protected by endangered species act.
 
I've ask those opposed and they state $ is why they don't run another ballot measure to repeal. Their response seemed weak to me. Must not be to big of a deal to fight if $ for the campaign is the biggest concern.
 
A little over a million bucks was spent by opposition groups, and proponents spent about $2.4 million it looks like. The cost of the signature initiative was $1.1 million, so that sorta gives an idea of the cost of the woof and pony show.

I suppose the 84% yes/16% no polling support also has something to do with it.

If you care to follow the money:

Colorado Proposition 114, Gray Wolf Reintroduction Initiative (2020)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics
ballotpedia.org ballotpedia.org
 
SS! said:
Yeah wolves have ruined WY. You can only get 3 elk tags.
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Funny that- indeed elk are over objective in Wyoming, while moose are way under.

Have you hunted elk in Wyoming over the last 20 years? At least in the Wyoming range, the elk have learned to herd up, and certainly are avoiding habitats like aspen stands (go ask your friendly long timer G&F officer, or read studies on elk behavior). It used to be that the elk were in smaller groups and more distributed. Hunting them was "easier" in a sense that you would have more opportunities to find them. Now, unless you happen to run into the larger herds, it's really hit or miss. Result? The elk are not harvested in numbers to control the population due to the difficulties hunters face. Now, why did those elk change their behaviors- Hmmm....

Wait a minute- could it possibly be- wolves? Indeed, studies would support it.

All said- it's not necessarily a bad thing- but wolves DO impact hunting.

As for moose- it's clear that wolves have impacted their population. To deny it is silly. Again, I'm not claiming it's all bad, but it does have an impact. Moose don't congregate, so their only chance of behavior change is to go somewhere else. Like town, where the locals don't tolerate wolves running around :)
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Funny that- indeed elk are over objective in Wyoming, while moose are way under.

Have you hunted elk in Wyoming over the last 20 years? At least in the Wyoming range, the elk have learned to herd up, and certainly are avoiding habitats like aspen stands (go ask your friendly long timer G&F officer, or read studies on elk behavior). It used to be that the elk were in smaller groups and more distributed. Hunting them was "easier" in a sense that you would have more opportunities to find them. Now, unless you happen to run into the larger herds, it's really hit or miss. Result? The elk are not harvested in numbers to control the population due to the difficulties hunters face. Now, why did those elk change their behaviors- Hmmm....

Wait a minute- could it possibly be- wolves? Indeed, studies would support it.

All said- it's not necessarily a bad thing- but wolves DO impact hunting.

As for moose- it's clear that wolves have impacted their population. To deny it is silly. Again, I'm not claiming it's all bad, but it does have an impact. Moose don't congregate, so their only chance of behavior change is to go somewhere else. Like town, where the locals don't tolerate wolves running around :)
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Yes I’ve hunted elk a lot in WY. And I don’t have the time to poke holes in all that you typed.

Please show me where I’ve ever said wolves are not a factor? But to simply blame wolves? Laughable at best.

I can tell you don’t know chit about moose. Moose congregate. I’ve seen 30 bulls in one spot before in the upper green. And moose don’t go down into town to avoid wolves or even for winter. Moose sheds are routinely found at elevations over 9k in WY and they drop in Dec.
 
Sorry I’m still laughing about the aspens and elk comment you made. That’s some funny stuff
 
Oh and the difficulty in killing an elk in the WY range. That’s funny chit. I love your sense of humor. And the apocalypse size herds? Damn! ?????
 
Glad you had a laugh dude. Google wolve's impact on elk behavior. The funny scientists will have you rolling on the floor.

Oh- and while you're at it, you might look into the gregarious moose behaviors you've been seeing. Might be a new species!!
 
SS! said:
?
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SS, disappointed in the daily Wolf limit in AK! ?
5FA46EF5-26DE-44D0-AD14-60756F0F72F3.png
 
SS! said:
Yes I’m anti idiot so that’s why we can never be friends. Life’s too short to be friends with idiots
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Yes, well, at least you admit it.

I am not a wolf hater. However, claiming that wolves have not had an impact on elk and moose in WY is laughable. In Yellowstone NP and the surrounding areas, elk and moose numbers are so low that the park "naturalists" are really talking up all the boiling pots and geysers in their talks to the urban tourists because there's not a lot of elk and moose to see anymore. I do not care for national parks because they just become tourist holes where humans are not considered to be part of the natural world. USFS Wilderness Areas are way more natural and protected.
 
SS! said:
Yes I’ve hunted elk a lot in WY. And I don’t have the time to poke holes in all that you typed.

Please show me where I’ve ever said wolves are not a factor? But to simply blame wolves? Laughable at best.

I can tell you don’t know chit about moose. Moose congregate. I’ve seen 30 bulls in one spot before in the upper green. And moose don’t go down into town to avoid wolves or even for winter. Moose sheds are routinely found at elevations over 9k in WY and they drop in Dec.
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Yes, you can see plenty of bull moose occupying some of the same areas at high elevations before the rut but they are not a herd animal (like elk) and that is what @HikeHunt61 was referring to. It is much more common to see solitary moose and small groups of moose.
 
CWO said:
Yes, you can see plenty of bull moose occupying some of the same areas at high elevations before the rut but they are not a herd animal (like elk) and that is what @HikeHunt61 was referring to. It is much more common to see solitary moose and small groups of mo
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???. @HikeHunt61 says the elk are in large herds due to wolves. So why haven’t moose done that? Because it’s BS.
 
CWO said:
Yes, well, at least you admit it.

I am not a wolf hater. However, claiming that wolves have not had an impact on elk and moose in WY is laughable. In Yellowstone NP and the surrounding areas, elk and moose numbers are so low that the park "naturalists" are really talking up all the boiling pots and geysers in their talks to the urban tourists because there's not a lot of elk and moose to see anymore. I do not care for national parks because they just become tourist holes where humans are not considered to be part of the natural world. USFS Wilderness Areas are way more natural and protected.
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I never said wolves didn’t affect elk and moose populations. Please show me where I did.

Rest your post is just more BS. Do you really think people believe the BS you post?
 
SS! said:
???. @HikeHunt61 says the elk are in large herds due to wolves. So why haven’t moose done that? Because it’s BS.
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You know well why. You just have to slam anyone without your world view dude. Elk are gregarious by nature and herding up to protect themselves is SCIENTIFICALLY the case. Moose? Not so much. They are solitary creatures, thus are less capable of herding behaviors to protect themselves.

Now, if you wish, I will point you to countless websites, some from your favorite conservation groups that back it up. Wikipedia might even immediately tell you that. They use big words, and long sentences. I can also point you to a dictionary if that helps.

Naa- I take it back- again- you know all of this. I realize you are a smart guy- but you call BS because it hurts your feelings, or something- who knows...

Lastly- nobody said you claimed there are no effects. I didn't claim the effects are devastating either. I just stated there are effects. I support wolves and grizzlies in Wyo wilderness BTW. I just realize they have impacts and understand to some degree what they are.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
You know well why. You just have to slam anyone without your world view dude. Elk are gregarious by nature and herding up to protect themselves is SCIENTIFICALLY the case. Moose? Not so much. They are solitary creatures, thus are less capable of herding behaviors to protect themselves.

Now, if you wish, I will point you to countless websites, some from your favorite conservation groups that back it up. Wikipedia might even immediately tell you that. They use big words, and long sentences. I can also point you to a dictionary if that helps.

Naa- I take it back- again- you know all of this. I realize you are a smart guy- but you call BS because it hurts your feelings, or something- who knows...

Lastly- nobody said you claimed there are no effects. I didn't claim the effects are devastating either. I just stated there are effects. I support wolves and grizzlies in Wyo wilderness BTW. I just realize they have impacts and understand to some degree what they are.
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If you hunt around you’ll see big herds in states with no wolves. What’s the reasoning for that? Please tell me. You said it was cuz of wolves. It’s not. It’s cuz they are herd animals. Duh. Of course it’s beneficial to be in a herd for protection. But you tried to pass it off due to wolves. And that’s BS.

And you have have emphasized that wolves affect elk hunting in response to my post which is you saying I felt they didn’t affect hunting. So there you go again with misinformation.

You want to sit here and cry how bad the hunting is cuz of wolves and I’ll keep calling you out.

Ray Charles could get an elk on commissary ridge in 3 days of hunting.

Stevie wonder could get an elk in one day in labarge creek.

What’s your excuse? Oh that’s right, wolves!!
 
Holy mackerel- I get elk- it's just harder. And for hunters with more limited physical capabilities, it's doubly harder. I initially got this concept from the Wyo G&F officer who told us about the impacts. At first, I was dubious- but a little research confirmed it. You are sooo demeaning SS. I'm done trying to have logical debate with you- no sense comparing your overbearing, demeaning statements to those of biologists and scientific research. Pointless, and that's my bad...
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Holy mackerel- I get elk- it's just harder. And for hunters with more limited physical capabilities, it's doubly harder. I initially got this concept from the Wyo G&F officer who told us about the impacts. At first, I was dubious- but a little research confirmed it. You are sooo demeaning SS. I'm done trying to have logical debate with you- no sense comparing your overbearing, demeaning statements to those of biologists and scientific research. Pointless, and that's my bad...
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Harder? You must not of hunted elk in the early 90s.

The hardest part of a western wyo elk hunt is picking out which beer to take.
 
SS! said:
Harder? You must not of hunted elk in the early 90s.

The hardest part of a western wyo elk hunt is picking out which beer to take.
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George Benard Shaw, Nobel laureate, and all-around weird dude originated one of the most enduring, appropriate pieces of wisdom of all time. Mark Twain improved it, and I’ll paraphrase: “Never wrestle with a pig, you’ll be covered in mud and the pig enjoys it”. I’m gonna need to shower a second time today, but here goes:

Yep, hunted elk in Wyoming from 1976 thru 2022 (so looking forward to that). Northern Wyoming Range predominantly but also stints in Gros Ventre and Ferris Mountains (when I thought hiking to the top of a ridge was everything). And without doubt, hunting elk in Wyoming has changed dramatically in that time. Not all of it was wolves, by any measure. Some places it’s actually better, some places different, some places worse. Just saying that an apex predator has impacted elk behaviors and made it more difficult in a broad sense. I still think having wolves and grizzlies in Wyoming is a plus. Just have to accept the impacts. Oh- and wish the feds and crazier enviro nuts would allow the G&F to balance the management. And with that, it’s off to the showers (and maybe that beer)!
 
HikeHunt61 said:
George Benard Shaw, Nobel laureate, and all-around weird dude originated one of the most enduring, appropriate pieces of wisdom of all time. Mark Twain improved it, and I’ll paraphrase: “Never wrestle with a pig, you’ll be covered in mud and the pig enjoys it”. I’m gonna need to shower a second time today, but here goes:

Yep, hunted elk in Wyoming from 1976 thru 2022 (so looking forward to that). Northern Wyoming Range predominantly but also stints in Gros Ventre and Ferris Mountains (when I thought hiking to the top of a ridge was everything). And without doubt, hunting elk in Wyoming has changed dramatically in that time. Not all of it was wolves, by any measure. Some places it’s actually better, some places different, some places worse. Just saying that an apex predator has impacted elk behaviors and made it more difficult in a broad sense. I still think having wolves and grizzlies in Wyoming is a plus. Just have to accept the impacts. Oh- and wish the feds and crazier enviro nuts would allow the G&F to balance the management. And with that, it’s off to the showers (and maybe that beer)!
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? good luck this fall!
 
SS! said:
Yeah wolves have ruined WY. You can only get 3 elk tags.
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You have to admit that managing wolves in WY is an entirely different issue than in Colorado. Colorado can’t even manage bears and they are constantly havi by bears attack people, destroy homes, cars and more. The wolves in Colorado will absolutely destroy it all.
 
elks96 said:
You have to admit that managing wolves in WY is an entirely different issue than in Colorado. Colorado can’t even manage bears and they are constantly havi by bears attack people, destroy homes, cars and more. The wolves in Colorado will absolutely destroy it all.
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Western Colorado is perfect for wolves. They will do fine there.

It will be fine. It was the same story for WY when they were reintroduced and look at it now.
 
Guys, do you not know about the “block button” on this website. Guys who just spout nonsense get that from me and that makes this site much more enjoyable.
 
txhunter58 said:
Guys, do you not know about the “block button” on this website. Guys who just spout nonsense get that from me and that makes this site much more enjoyable.
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How true Txhunter. Got tired of the crap some spout, just blocked them and it’s like they don’t exist!
 
elks96 said:
You have to admit that managing wolves in WY is an entirely different issue than in Colorado. Colorado can’t even manage bears and they are constantly havi by bears attack people, destroy homes, cars and more. The wolves in Colorado will absolutely destroy it all.
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There is good news- wolves rarely attack people. Most of the people impact (beyond the varying impacts to natural resources like elk) seem to be limited to rancher's cattle and the occasional unlucky dog.

I hate to say this- but you'll soon be wishing that Colorado was managing the introduction. Now that the court "relisted" wolves in Co, and made the USFW the controlling entity, it'll be a mess- just like it was in Wyo until they delisted them. Having a bureaucracy as poorly staffed and zealously focused as the feds driving the boat just sucks.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
There is good news- wolves rarely attack people. Most of the people impact (beyond the varying impacts to natural resources like elk) seem to be limited to rancher's cattle and the occasional unlucky dog.

I hate to say this- but you'll soon be wishing that Colorado was managing the introduction. Now that the court "relisted" wolves in Co, and made the USFW the controlling entity, it'll be a mess- just like it was in Wyo until they delisted them. Having a bureaucracy as poorly staffed and zealously focused as the feds driving the boat just sucks.
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Actually with the feds in charge of the eolves
Again, that helps.
The feds never wanted the northern grey wolves
In Colorado. And as it stand now they are against it. Because they believe that the northern wolves will
Expand into the Mexican grey wolf areas and destroy those thrust endangered wolves.

Sorry but if the feds wanted wolves
In Colorado they would have done it all
Along. But they do not want wolves there…

Colorado will end up a disaster… Simply put there will not be any control of the wolves due to the politics and nothing g will happen to
Control
The wolves…
 
Didn't know that. Do you think that will limit where the grey wolves are introduced- to northern CO? I assume they are mostly worried about inter-breeding of Greys and Mex wolves- especially since the males like to roam so much?
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Didn't know that. Do you think that will limit where the grey wolves are introduced- to northern CO? I assume they are mostly worried about inter-breeding of Greys and Mex wolves- especially since the males like to roam so much?
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Right now the federal policy is no introduction into Colorado. So in theory the feds would have to change their policy stance to start a relationship introduction. It is a legal
Mess right now. If I recall the wolves were allowed to stay delisted in MT, ID and WY. That allows those states to manage the wolves. They are still listed in other states. As a result any management of the species has to be ran through the feds program
And approval.

Where the hall eventually lands??? Also intersting to think about where the wolves may come arrive from. Saw an article recently that claimed CO would work out a deal with ID, MT or WY. However here in WY, the state has a policy that they would never do anything to increase the wolves/spread. That includes giving wolves to other states. I believe that ID and MT feel the same way. If they are going to do anything with a wolf it is not going to be trap it and give it to another state to expand the population.

So then you end up with options of pulling wolves from another state where they are listed and protected or import sting from Cananda that would require federal approval… in the meantime time wolves are there naturally and appear to be expanding an populating naturally?

None of this is settled by any means but it is likely to get pretty complicated. Unless the feds drop all protections.
 
SS! said:
I never said wolves didn’t affect elk and moose populations. Please show me where I did.

Rest your post is just more BS. Do you really think people believe the BS you post?
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You are acting like wolves haven't affected elk in WY with what you have posted. Making fun of people that have noticed a decline in the elk and their hunting success but I guess you must be the best hunter on earth. We should all bow down to you. Lol.

Do you really think people respect you for your rude posts? Grow up and be civil. A healthy debate is both informative and entertaining. Your debates are boorish and rude.
 
CWO said:
You are acting like wolves haven't affected elk in WY with what you have posted. Making fun of people that have noticed a decline in the elk and their hunting success but I guess you must be the best hunter on earth. We should all bow down to you. Lol.

Do you really think people respect you for your rude posts? Grow up and be civil. A healthy debate is both informative and entertaining. Your debates are boorish and rude.
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If you make a post about wanting to have SS banned, it might happen. Makes it more aware of how much he upsets you.
 
CWO said:
You are acting like wolves haven't affected elk in WY with what you have posted. Making fun of people that have noticed a decline in the elk and their hunting success but I guess you must be the best hunter on earth. We should all bow down to you. Lol.

Do you really think people respect you for your rude posts? Grow up and be civil. A healthy debate is both informative and entertaining. Your debates are boorish and rude.
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Don’t blame the wolves for your inability to get an elk. Blame yourself. Western wy is crawling with elk.

I’m ok not getting respect from a bunch of cry babies.
 
SS! said:
Don’t blame the wolves for your inability to get an elk. Blame yourself. Western wy is crawling with elk.

I’m ok not getting respect from a bunch of cry babies.
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Limit out yet this morning? :ROFLMAO:

No worries, the wolves here will starve.
 
Any way you cut it, it should stack up to be a sh@t show…. We will get to see all sorts of wild stuff I’m sure of it with the number of folks kicking around the backwoods in co, probably find out if wolves prefer hikers or mountain bikers or photographers the best ? ? all sorts of scientific questions will be answered
 

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