"WTF" 12 year olds can apply for LE and Once in a Lifetime

D

DIG

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Am I out of touch and uninformed or did this deal happen behind "closed doors"?http://kutv.com/news/local/legislature-approves-utah-hunting-permits-for-12-year-olds

I'm 100% for getting youth involved in hunting, but small game and general deer and elk hunts should suffice. This will kill drawing odds.

Is this SFW's solution to making up the revenue they lost by giving $1.50 of the app fees at the expo to conservation? Imagine how many more $5.00 app fees they can get now.
 
I agree it wont help draw odds.
But in Wy the age is 12.
In ID the age is 12, 10 for deer permits I believe.
AZ the age is 12
CO the age is 12.
Yep, It must be SFW's fault. LOL
 
What's the problem? It's their wildlife. See this is another example of the conflicts we run into when a bunch of selfish people start this downward spiral of who gets to kill the last deer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-16 AT 12:37PM (MST)[p]If 12 year olds are already allowed to legally hunt big game in Utah, why shouldn't they be able to apply for anything that other legally licensed hunters can? The only reason I can see opposition to it is exactly for the reason stated in the OP, which is certainly self-serving, selfish, and greedy. Geez, Tri and I agree on this!
 
It was 14 before.

I was against moving the General deer hunt age from 14 to 12 when they did it a couple years ago. At that time there were more applicants than there were general tags. There were already a lot of people 14 and up that were not getting tags that wanted them. By lowering the age the 12 the number of people wanting a general deer tag and not getting one went up.

I felt like there was plenty of opportunities already available for the youth prior to 14. I did not see a good reason to take the tags away from the adults to give them to the 12 year olds.

When this age drop from 14 to 12 happened it was for general tags only. They kept the limited entry tags at age 14. Now the odds for LE will be worse also.
 
IMHO there is absolutely no reason to not allow a person the same possibilities as others if they are old enough to hold the same license as older folks. Any other way of doing it like in the past is pure discrimination, regardless of whether it changes the odds. It certainly doesn't give them any more of a chance at a tag than those older folks.
 
Why not just ban children from hunting altogether ? Make the minimum age 18 . That way we can completely kill off the future of hunting .

Selfish and greedy
 
I'm not apposed to young people hunting and I really didn't want to start a debate about "age". My biggest concern is; "who" lobbied for this and "what was their motive" And why was it done behind closed doors.

Why wasn't this brought up at RAC meetings. Why wasn't there a poll taken i.e. "scopes on muzzleloader" This smells like a rat. This, to me , is reminiscent of the crap SFW pulled when they tried to Tag Grab in Arizona. (With the emergency legislation)
 
>What's the problem? It's their
>wildlife. See this is
>another example of the conflicts
>we run into when a
>bunch of selfish people start
>this downward spiral of who
>gets to kill the last
>deer.

just wondering does it mean taking a few more nonresident tags?
 
I think 12 is pretty young to be deer hunting with a high power rifle but that's another topic. However, the tragedies in the news lately involved older guys.

As long as the youngsters can legally hunt, they should be able to apply for tags of all sorts. Good for them!

Zeke
 
It's a bill. The dwr has Been bombarded by lots of people wanting it. Just like those who don't like it, there are those who do. There are bills that get passed for future reference also. If passed it still has to be approved by the wildlife board so I would guess it will go through the rac's.
 
I have 4 young boys, and 1 that is 11 (my oldest). He was so excited to apply for deer here in Utah. I think kids should wait until 14. But if the rules are the rules, then I will follow them. I wish he could apply this year for the LE and OIL tags. It just puts him 1 more year behind the 9,000 "8 balls".

Does anyone know if this passes, if it can happen for this year? Or will it only take place for next year.

FYI, Arizona in 10 years old. Fisher, my oldest has 2 points now in Arizona.

He is actually very safe. We've been waterfowl and upland game hunting for ever and the last 2 years hes been hunting and has been successful. Lots of pheasants and ducks and geese. He sometimes reminds me of a few things to do to be more safe. Its nice to have that little small voice reminding me of things.
 
I would think it will start next year if all goes. It still has to go before the wildlife board and the draw will end before that.
 
Dig-- there was a poll taken on the "muzzleloader scopes"
65% of those who responded wanted them. A majority of the RACs voted against it but the WB voted to allow them. The decision had absolutely nothing to do with SFW RMEF or any other group championing it at the RACs or WB.
 
I am just curious on this though, Does any one know what their (SFW or RMEF) stance was on the muzzy scopes? Just curious, no reason at all.
 
If they're old enough to hunt general, I don't see why they should be excluded from LE. The draw odds are bad either way.
 
In spite of my initial post, I'm O.K. with 12 year olds being able to draw LE tags. I love youth getting the opportunity to hunt. In fact I'm not a fan of the whole bonus pt. / preference pt. systems and feel that everyone (youth or adult) should have equal chance to draw. However I also feel that a debate about age and/or a poll should have happened before something with such a big impact became legislation.

I haven't talked to "One single person" and I know many hunters, who has heard about this until now.
 
SFW stayed neutral on the scope issue. Members were about even split. Don't know on any other groups.
As a member of a rac, I wanted scopes but the only ones that contacted me on the issue were against scope change. I voted no for that reason.
 
Thanks Bird.

If legal hunting age is 12 then its 12. If its 14, then its 14. But to say 12 for 1 and 14 for another and its actually the same thing, then keep it the same, one or the other.
 
I'm with those that believe, if 12 year olds are allowed to purchase a hunting license they should also be allowed to participate in the full benefits of system, like anyone else. If it reduces my odds, oh well. That's life. Glad to see the youth get interested in the life style.

One of the benefits of belonging to a proactive sportsmen's hunting fishing conservation organization is that you get to hear about some of these "proposed" regulations early in the process, and sometimes you have an opportunity to give or receive input early in the process. Not always, but sometimes it does give you an opportunity to "try" to move the issue, one way or another, early in the process. By the time an issue gets to the Legislature, generally somebody has done a fair amount of work on it before others ever hear about it.

If you believe you're getting "caught" flat footed on hunting and sportsmen's issues, you may want to consider become an active member of your favorite sportsmen's organization, so your voice can be heard. early in the process, on some of these issues.

DC
 
I posted about this issue over 3 weeks ago on another forum. I "heard" about it by going to the legislative website and looking to see what bills were out there on certain issues. This one popped up and I read it.

This was not discussed at the RACs or WB meetings because it is a legislative issue, and the legislature doesn't use the RAC process. I don't believe the WB will get a day in this. The WB only has as much authority to make rules and regulations as the legislature gives it. Usually, these types of laws are passed with language giving the WB authority to implement rules consistent with this law.

I am in favor of this. I always thought it was stupid that a 12 year old could hunt all big game, just not in the LE and OIL draws. 12 year olds could previously hunt on purchased tags for those same species on CWMUs.

This is a good change. Yes, it will put more people into the draw. But I'm okay with that.
 
If I had a vote, I would have voted "for" multi-powered scopes on muzzleloaders.

However, I'm actually opposed to inline muzzleloaders, period. The muzzleloader hunt was started to give hunters a primitive hunt, and more days afield, without significant harvest. An opportunity to "go back to another time", without much impact on the deer herd.

The muzzleloader hunt has evolved into anything but a primitive hunt. Therefore, if your going to shoot at deer from 150 to 300 yards, at least put a sight on the rifle that can improve the shooters ability to make a killing shot. Shooting at deer with an open site or a 1 power scope was, in my opinion, not in the best interest of the deer or the hunter. I know people will still lob shots at longer distances now but I believe there is less chance of wounding a deer at 200 yards, with a 1 power scope than there is with a 300 plus yard shot, with a 9 power scope. But it's all empirical, so it's an open argument that's hard to prove either way.

I just really dislike inline muzzleloaders and what the muzzleloader hunt in Utah has evolved into. Yes, I own an inline, and I hunt with it. I guess I just see the current muzzleloader hunt as modern single shot rifle hunt and believe that what we're doing today is no longer a primitive hunt, so it's salves my jaded principles and gives me another 9 days of deer hunting each year. Maybe am a hypocrite............. oh well.

DC
 
I agree with everything Deloss had to say.

In my perfect world all points and waiting periods would end today.

They breed entitlement and retard management.




"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
the ONLY reason somebody would not want this to happen is they are selfish and want the tags for themselves.

yes I want to draw as much as next guy but there is NO way I would say you have to wait an extra 2 years even though you are allowed to hunt big game in general units.

Whats next, if you are over 65 you won't be allowed to apply cause you will be too OLD to make it a successful hardcore hunt?

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
A new low. Crying about kids being able to apply for a hunt.

No wonder hunting is on the ropes. Pathetic!!
 
If 12 year-olds are allowed to hunt general season, I don't really see any problem with them hunting LE or OIL hunts.

However, I thought 12 year-olds could already kill an animal on an LE hunt if they were using a mentor's tag..??

Also, I think everyone here understands that a few thousand kids will join the LE point creep next year. Having 0 points will probably only take a few tags away from "older hunters" though as the 0 point pool gets very few tags (by design).


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
O.K. For the record! I am an advocate of kids being able to hunt at age 12. I despise preference pt. systems for that very reason. In fact, I have had this debate with several people with me being the one advocating for 12 year olds being able to apply for LE hunts. I have even had all of my kids go through hunter safety when they were 10 years old so that they could apply in New Mexico and Arizona.

I posted what I posted to stir up some emotion. HOWEVER, the entire point of the post was this...

Why does the DWR send out surveys on something that impacts a smaller percentage of hunters, such as, whether or not scopes should be allowed on muzzleloaders. And yet something that impacts "every hunter" such as the age thing, nobody hears about it until it is in the NEWS that it has passed legislation and is waiting to be signed by the Governor.

I have talked to 30+ other hunters who hadn't heard a thing about it. Why was it kept in the dark?
 
As a father with kids who will soon be coming into the hunting age, I am glad that this happened. My oldest boy will turn 10 this year and he'll be hunting in Idaho with me, with his own tag in his pocket.

I understand the concern about this all happening behind closed doors and people not being aware of it, but we owe it to the future generation of hunters. If at age 12 they are legally allowed to hunt big game, why discriminate against them and stop them from applying for LE and OIL tags? I'm all for it! If at 12 they can hunt, then let them have the opportunity to hunt everything!

Does it make any sense to apply for hunts with your little ones next to you and they say, "Mom/Dad, I want to kill a bison!" What am I suppose to say, "You can't. Your too young and the state won't let you even apply."
 
NM gives some of their best tags to youth.

It pisses me off when I hear people cry about it. Kids I have hunted with are more deserving that many adults I have hunted with.

Anything UT is doing to encourage youth hunters is good in my book.
 
12 year olds being encouraged to hunt and secure our heritage by allowing them to apply for coveted LE tags???? What's next? Women? Minorities? Nonresidents? Senior Citizens? Average Joes?

giphy.gif



[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
The added applicants will reduce the odds of drawing by a little bit, but realistically, those poor suckers just turning 12 now are so far behind on the brownie points count that they will be lucky if they draw any kind of LE tag before they are old men.

How about we start letting kids apply for points as soon as they are born so they don't get so far behind in the point creep.
 
Standing next to my son or daughter when they take a buck, even just an average buck, is PRICELESS. To me, there is FAR more value in that than if took a booner by myself! Those of you complaining that this will hurt your odds of drawing...either don't have children, or are in this for the wrong reasons! #SELFISH!!!
 
>I agree with everything Deloss had
>to say.
>
>In my perfect world all points
>and waiting periods would end
>today.
>
>They breed entitlement and retard management.
>
>
>
>
>
>"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
>
>MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
>HUNT"
>Finn 2/14/16

Hey ww?

After 20 GAWD-DAMNED Years You Ain't F'N with My Points!

Gonna Get me a PISSCUTTER Bull maybe before I Die!

I Had to wait till I was 16 Years Old to Hunt Big Game!

Give it a few More Years & Kids in Diapers will be able to Buy Tags & Hunt!

JFP!!!








[font color="blue"]"I Don't get No Sleep!I Don't get No Peace!"
[/font]
 
I took my first buck at 12 in 1974. It was legal where we were in NV. My dad hit the bottle too hard the night before and had a hangover. I pestered him enough that he took me to the trailhead and said he would be back at 4. I took a 26" 3x3 a few miles from the trailhead... He seemed surprised to see the liver and heart in a bag that evening. Next day we went up and drug the deer off the mountain. I missed my dad that day, but honestly didn't feel I was doing anything I wasn't capable of or was dangerous. I think 12 is fine with a kid used to hunting and hiking, maybe not every kid... But nothing wrong with deer hunting at 12! Age is just a number.
 
My son Zach killed his first buck at 8 yrs old, and has not looked back. By the time he was 12 he had bull & cow elk, oryx, ibex, wild pigs, javelina and a few bucks.

I know a bunch of adults that are unsafe and I would not hunt with them.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-16 AT 10:56PM (MST)[p]DIG,

See my post above. This is a legislative issue, not DWR issue. I assume the DWR was consulted, but it's not the DWR's job to do surveys on potential laws passed by the legislature.

You're talking about two completely different processes here.
 
Thanks Vanilla, that does shed some light. And as I mentioned in follow-up posts, I actually support the idea of 12 year olds being able to hunt LE. My original post was actually after I had just had a discussion with someone who was against it and I took their position in the post to stir some $%#@ I guess.

I did feel blindsided by it though. I remember when they went from 14 to 12 on the general tags hearing about long before it was legislated.
 

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