Chesterwyo
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I fuggin’ knew this thread would somehow parlay into Jims talking about three point bucks. ???
It's amazing what 2 years of antler point restrictions 10 years ago can cause.I fuggin’ knew this thread would somehow parlay into Jims talking about three point bucks. ???
Wyo res won the 90/10 battle for big 5 but have they truly won? Wyo res will gain a handful of tags but at the expense of thousands of nonres hunters with immediate revenue loss to the Wg&f. I guess time will tell the long-term impacts to Wyo?
Life goes on but nonres across the country that have invested 15 to 20+ years and $ into applying for these high demand tags dreams have been shattered. Very sad days ahead for DIY/OYO nonres hunters. One more door has just been closed in our Western US hunting heritage!
Get over it...and answer the questions.Wyo res won the 90/10 battle for big 5 but have they truly won? Wyo res will gain a handful of tags but at the expense of thousands of nonres hunters with immediate revenue loss to the Wg&f. I guess time will tell the long-term impacts to Wyo?
Life goes on but nonres across the country that have invested 15 to 20+ years and $ into applying for these high demand tags dreams have been shattered. Very sad days ahead for DIY/OYO nonres hunters. One more door has just been closed in our Western US hunting heritage!
23rd year applying. Don’t think I’ll need a random tag, but wouldn’t turn one down. Just pointing out that in the future there is no way it stays preference only. I’ll cash mine in this may if a few prayers are answered.Ranting about residents screwing you....and asking for help?
Don't think you'll have much luck getting your questions answered.
Good luck in the draw!
Answer the questionsWyo res won the 90/10 battle for big 5 but have they truly won? Wyo res will gain a handful of tags but at the expense of thousands of nonres hunters with immediate revenue loss to the Wg&f. I guess time will tell the long-term impacts to Wyo?
Life goes on but nonres across the country that have invested 15 to 20+ years and $ into applying for these high demand tags dreams have been shattered. Very sad days ahead for DIY/OYO nonres hunters. One more door has just been closed in our Western US hunting heritage!
But if they don't just give you a tag... boy are they in for it!If they would just honor my points and give me my sheep tag this May, then I’d look the other way. Heck, I’ll even chime in on what a good change this is and how it makes sense.
I don’t want to have to move to Wyoming. I guess we will find out what happens in May.
You points are still good, what do you mean "honor" them?If they would just honor my points and give me my sheep tag this May, then I’d look the other way.
Sometimes people sit and watch there opportunities go down the tube, without ever making the most of them. Then it’s the end of the world when they lose them.I'm a Canadian resident and happy to be able to go to a state and hunt as a Non-resident, regardless of allocation split. Its one issue I wish was different in Canada was the need to have a 'host' in Canadian provinces (even among Canadian hunters).
Interesting to watch how it all develops, but I'm sure thankful for the opportunities
Allot of people will continue to leave because of the wind and bad winters and lack of steady jobs tooSaid it before and I'll say it again. We all get to choose where we live. If you want a say in how WY allocates tags then become a resident. That is the irony for the long term WY residents. Many are and will choose to move there for the natural beauty and resources. I'm pretty sure the number of allocated tags that are changing will be consumed by the number of people moving to WY in the near future.
Yeah and there won't be enough money to fund the G&F, especially after all the lawsuits. Man, the torture of hearing and reading this same stuff, over and over and over again, makes me want to go back to the way it was. NOT!Said it before and I'll say it again. We all get to choose where we live. If you want a say in how WY allocates tags then become a resident. That is the irony for the long term WY residents. Many are and will choose to move there for the natural beauty and resources. I'm pretty sure the number of allocated tags that are changing will be consumed by the number of people moving to WY in the near future.
Our general deer and elk tags are Iimited most people dont know that the limit has never been metI guarantee more people move into Wyo than the handful of tags gained by 90/10! How many additional tags will be issued to res for sheep in 2023? Your draw odds are actually getting worse every year. I bet it won’t be too terribly long and general deer and elk tags will be limited as Wyo population grows.
Is 90/10 really worth all the headaches?
We can stay home and write checks to Western Watershed project, to be used exclusively in Wy.You know how to prove your point?
For all NR to not buy tags/licenses, and not visit Wyoming.
But, given the number of dudes chasing tags in Wyoming, that ain't going to happen
Like it or not, the market speaks. And the market, despite 90/10, or cost, is still sitting quiet.
Wyoming, or any other state, will know if they've gone to far, by a drop off in tag purchases.
I'm guessing they ain't there yet?
Or, if you don't like what Wyoming is doing, stay home. No one there cares about any NR opinion. The only opinions that matter are R.
Same as any other state
Have at itWe can stay home and write checks to Western Watershed project, to be used exclusively in Wy.
Yes.Is 90/10 really worth all the headaches?
Yes, but the population increase is not in response to a 90/10 move...the larger forces that have all western states experiencing population booms are what will drive this. If anything you are making a case for 90/10...or 100/0...WY residents are going to increase, demand will be high, so why leave any for NRs?I guarantee more people move into Wyo than the handful of tags gained by 90/10! How many additional tags will be issued to res for sheep in 2023? Your draw odds are actually getting worse every year. I bet it won’t be too terribly long and general deer and elk tags will be limited as Wyo population grows.
Is 90/10 really worth all the headaches?
Native Americans get their own tags here on their own landI say 90-5-5. 90% to Wyo Native Americans, 5% Wyo res that aren’t Native Americans, 5% to nonres makes a lot of sense. Who are truly native res in Wyo?
On their own land and any BLM, USFS, and State public land...with some minor exceptions.Native Americans get their own tags here on their own land
In wyoming they have to draw a tag or buy a general tag to hunt outside of the reservation but not many do since the hunting is generally better on the rezOn their own land and any BLM, USFS, and State public land...with some minor exceptions.
The number of people moving to Wyoming due to 90/10 is the same amount of towns that will suffer because of 90/10. ? ….. zero.I guarantee more people move into Wyo than the handful of tags gained by 90/10! How many additional tags will be issued to res for sheep in 2023? Your draw odds are actually getting worse every year. I bet it won’t be too terribly long and general deer and elk tags will be limited as Wyo population grows.
Is 90/10 really worth all the headaches?
The Crow Tribe of Montana won their Supreme Court case and can hunt the public unoccuppied lands of their original 1868 Treaty in the Bighorn Mountains of Wyoming so no wyoming tag is needed. But yes as you stated the elk and deer hunting is as good or better on the Crow and I haven't heard of any using it since the decision. Basically Wyoming Fish and Game has always been at odds with them so they decided to prove a point legally. Good for them.In wyoming they have to draw a tag or buy a general tag to hunt outside of the reservation but not many do since the hunting is generally better on the rez
Riiight. Except they didn’t take all the meat and look up what Herrera has done and been charged with since then.The Crow Tribe of Montana won their Supreme Court case and can hunt the public unoccuppied lands of their original 1868 Treaty in the Bighorn Mountains of Wyoming so no wyoming tag is needed. But yes as you stated the elk and deer hunting is as good or better on the Crow and I haven't heard of any using it since the decision. Basically Wyoming Fish and Game has always been at odds with them so they decided to prove a point legally. Good for them.
I’m moving there because of it.The number of people moving to Wyoming due to 90/10 is the same amount of towns that will suffer because of 90/10. ? ….. zero.
The only headache is in your head wondering why no one listens to you.
Not true at all. Many tribes have treaties which secure their right to hunt and it is not bound to reservation at all. They hunt lots of public land and WY has ZERO jurisdiction. I know more and more tribal members from Idaho hunting Wyoming every year. They are not bound to state season dates so they may not be as visible.In wyoming they have to draw a tag or buy a general tag to hunt outside of the reservation but not many do since the hunting is generally better on the rez
No you’re not. There’s no room for sissy la la’s.I’m moving there because of it.
Your missing the point. Don't care about what one person out of that group of tribal hunters did later on that is irrelevant to the Supreme Court upholding Native Americans previous treaty hunting rights. Same with the meat thing. Many Alaska resident hunters get cited for the same thing every year. I've lived up there twice, doesn't mean all Alaska residents are douche bags. Most aren't, I hunt the Crow at least twice a year and have for almost a decade and all my friends up there use all the meat and are thankful for it.Riiight. Except they didn’t take all the meat and look up what Herrera has done and been charged with since then.
Meh. We know you sell their hunts. Good for you on making a dime off of them. They lost the war and we shouldn’t have to pay for it now. FFS they had home field advantage! And now we need to let him run over shooting animals and collect food stamps? Hell no.Your missing the point. Don't care about what one person out of that group of tribal hunters did later on that is irrelevant to the Supreme Court upholding Native Americans previous treaty hunting rights. Same with the meat thing. Many Alaska resident hunters get cited for the same thing every year. I've lived up there twice, doesn't mean all Alaska residents are douche bags. Most aren't, I hunt the Crow at least twice a year and have for almost a decade and all my friends up there use all the meat and are thankful for it.
Already decided but I doubt it'll get any use. Just answering a question from a previous post. Welcome, but it's only a nickel!!!Meh. We know you sell their hunts. Good for you on making a dime off of them. They lost the war and we shouldn’t have to pay for it now. FFS they had home field advantage! And now we need to let him run over shooting animals and collect food stamps? Hell
Has to be. Jackson is full of them. They may not let me in though. May have to go to Cody instead and just keep a low profile.No you’re not. There’s no room for sissy la la’s.
Can they hunt any species? Just asking because if true they could do a world of hurt to the sheep population if a lot of them were serious sheep hunters.Not true at all. Many tribes have treaties which secure their right to hunt and it is not bound to reservation at all. They hunt lots of public land and WY has ZERO jurisdiction. I know more and more tribal members from Idaho hunting Wyoming every year. They are not bound to state season dates so they may not be as visible.
Already have.Have at it
Good on ya for showing commitment to the cause. I see a flurry of Wyo tags headed your way.Already have.
Yes, any species including sheep.Can they hunt any species? Just asking because if true they could do a world of hurt to the sheep population if a lot of them were serious sheep hunters.
Sure don't see them taking advantage of it if what you say is trueYes, any species including sheep.
Good on Wyoming for going to 90/10.
I wish Colorado would get on board with putting Resident hunters first. My boys have no interest in big game hunting, at least here in Colorado because the times we've gone together we spend half of our short rifle season trying to find places to hunt without an army of nonresident hunters occupying every ridge.
Too much Nonresident opportunity can be a bad thing. Just about all private land in Colorado is leased to outfitters or groups of nonresidents, so our WIA is pathetic at best. We will never have an access program like Montana or Wyoming. I've sat out seasons due to not being able to draw a 0 point deer tag, but see nonresidents swarming Craig. Again the public lands are so crowded that we've thrown in the towel during hunts and just went home because we cant get away from other hunters, and lastly nonresidents generally stay for the duration of the season grinding out the game.
I personally think 90/10 for all species is the best ratio for all states that have high demand for limited resources. Its not like any western state is like Mississippi with million+ deer herd. Some nonresidents should be thankful they can go to Walmart and buy multiple deer tags for month+ long seasons!
A lot of sheep areas are not easy for folks to access. Also, its not as though Tribes are limited to state seasons...but I don't have a good feel for how much S/M/G harvest occurs. My only point was it is absolutely 1000% true that many tribes have the right to hunt most all public land in wyoming without concern of any state regulation/quota or season for any species...deer, elk, sheep etc. I suspect given the direction of western hunting you will indeed see more and more exercise of tribal hunting in WY. As it relates to this thread, the pie is only so big, and there is an entire community that has a right to take from that pie which has not really been discussed in any of this 90/10 talk.Sure don't see them taking advantage of it if what you say is true
Run this by the G&F Director and see what he says.A lot of sheep areas are not easy for folks to access. Also, its not as though Tribes are limited to state seasons...but I don't have a good feel for how much S/M/G harvest occurs. My only point was it is absolutely 1000% true that many tribes have the right to hunt most all public land in wyoming without concern of any state regulation/quota or season for any species...deer, elk, sheep etc. I suspect given the direction of western hunting you will indeed see more and more exercise of tribal hunting in WY. As it relates to this thread, the pie is only so big, and there is an entire community that has a right to take from that pie which has not really been discussed in any of this 90/10 talk.
"Showing commitment to the cause. "a flurry of Wy. tags.Good on ya for showing commitment to the cause. I see a flurry of Wyo tags headed your way.
Not trying to be argumentative...I'm not tracking what you are suggesting. The G&F Director believes he has jurisdiction of tribal treaty hunting? Or?Run this by the G&F Director and see what he says.
This isn't really what the thread is about, but until the unoccupied lands issue is resolved, the G&F is enforcing statute and regulation on everyone, according to the Director. I'm not naive to say natives aren't shooting things.Not trying to be argumentative...I'm not tracking what you are suggesting. The G&F Director believes he has jurisdiction of tribal treaty hunting? Or?
2023What year does the new 90/10 quota start?
Run this by the G&F Director and see what he says.
I thought Herrera v. Wyoming established this already. A state can't overrule the Supreme Court, pretty high bar.This isn't really what the thread is about, but until the unoccupied lands issue is resolved, the G&F is enforcing statute and regulation on everyone, according to the Director. I'm not naive to say natives aren't shooting things.
Read the SC decision.I thought Herrera v. Wyoming established this already. A state can't overrule the Supreme Court, pretty high bar.
Speaking of which, I wonder if the tribes will sell me a permit to hunt on "their" land ?
There's some good advise, kind of like when you told NR that the outfitters were their only friend. Every outfitter on the TF voted for 90/10 and now they are trying to get a set-aside on DEA.You NR hunters need to stop indulging these characters. they're having a blast laughing at how they took your money for decades only to cut your allotment in half and screw you over. you agreed to pay more all the time to stay in the game but you were never told the goal post was going to get moved to the 200 yard line .
there's nothing you can do about except stop sending them money , unless you're at the top of the point pool maybe then grit your teeth and stay in. now that they've cut it in half don't think they're satisfied , they won't stop until they have it to next to nothing that's what the idiots in OR have done.
just tell them GFYS and walk away and let them have their circle jerk by themselves.
The last outfitter I talked to about moose and sheep said a bunch of outfitters fought this to the end as non-resident moose and sheep were a big part of their income and all of it was from non-residents. It is really outfitter dependent.There's some good advise, kind of like when you told NR that the outfitters were their only friend. Every outfitter on the TF voted for 90/10 and now they are trying to get a set-aside on DEA.
But everyone's got a right to their opinion and I'm sure many will jump ship. The ones that stay will get the tags.
My comment was specific to outfitters on the Task Force, but I will add WYOGA remained neutral. In reality, most sheep outfitters are guiding 50% resident hunters and with lifetime status I'm sure that number will rise. No one is going out of business over 90/10 that was recently passed.The last outfitter I talked to about moose and sheep said a bunch of outfitters fought this to the end as non-resident moose and sheep were a big part of their income and all of it was from non-residents. It is really outfitter dependent.
Wow 50% are residents? Dang, I couldn’t imagine with the long seasons in WY going guided as a resident.My comment was specific to outfitters on the Task Force, but I will add WYOGA remained neutral. In reality, most sheep outfitters are guiding 50% resident hunters and with lifetime status I'm sure that number will rise. No one is going out of business over 90/10 that was recently passed.
Call and actually talk to outfitters they take a ton of resident hunters.The last outfitter I talked to about moose and sheep said a bunch of outfitters fought this to the end as non-resident moose and sheep were a big part of their income and all of it was from non-residents. It is really outfitter dependent.
Makes sense……?Lot of residents do you use outfitters. Most i know when they dont have success they book a outfitter as a back up plan. Also you got the older generation that need assistance of horses and getting up that nasty terrain. You have residents that live across the state and with a busy life not enough time to scout. You have the guys that realize they got into something more they can handle.
I know the biggest outfitter use here is mountain lion hunting and pack trips over the summer to take other family memebers from out of state to escape town.
Not everyone is a bada$$ like you!Makes sense……?
Haha hardly. I’m a fat guy. But I feel like this is a recent trend?Not everyone is a bada$$ like you!
A "fat guy" that backpack hunts sheep...Haha hardly. I’m a fat guy. But I feel like this is a recent trend?
Example A. Look at that belly and those fat cheeks.A "fat guy" that backpack hunts sheep...
Example A. Look at that belly and those fat cheeks.
View attachment 72572
I guess if my fat ass can do it, anyone can!
A Task Force member made it perfectly clear in the last meeting that he wouldn't support any change that would take away "one resident license". He was seconded by another member.Where are these landowner/outfitter set aside tags going to come from? Certainly not from the current nonres quotas because landowner tags are already taken off the top and many highly limited units actually have more landowner than nonres tags! There are a chunk of units that currently don’t even offer random nonres draw tags.
Entitlement can be argued from both sided. And it’s amazing how peoples narratives change to suit themselves.
FunnyWell boys we made it to over 1000 posts. A quick summary for those new to the thread.
Wyoming decided to get allocation for the big 5 closer to other states by 90/10
A guy from CO cried and tried to represent the NR hunt…poorly
A working group/task force was created and many meeting were held
A guy from CO posted misinformation, charts with incorrect data etc all trying to prove his points.
Task force held meeting all over the state regarding 90/10 etc
Guy from CO kept grasping at straws to prove how bad 90/10 would be. Shows more incorrect “data”
Many questions for task force and the obvious was made apparent. 90/10 is what the people wanted
Guy from CO posts questions demanding answers but never answers questions directed towards him
90/10 passes.
Guy from CO cries into his pillow before he bites it. Wakes up the next morning with regret but still posts misinformation, and dodges questions.
Guy Eastman decides to get drunk and post. He doesn’t like the comparison to Biden and reaches out to said commentary.
Guy from CO rides off into the cheatgrass sunset to never be heard from again.
Ok I made that last line up.
You have no problems fighting over a few piddly tags...hypocrit.Landowner set aside or Wyo res quotas are the only place to find enough additional outfitter tags to warrant change. Watch your backs Wyo res. The sooner this stupid 90/10 and 90/5/5 deal ends the better off it will be for everyone!
If elk, deer, and antelope populations increase everyone is happy…more animals mean more tags! More time and $ should be put to use in the actual field conducting projects that increase wildlife habitat, predator control, roadside fencing projects, etc than fighting over a few piddly additional tags! Yep, controlling cheatgrass does a great job of improving wildlife habitat!
Good thing you have no say.I say 90-5-5. 90% to Wyo Native Americans, 5% Wyo res that aren’t Native Americans, 5% to nonres makes a lot of sense. Who are truly native res in Wyo?
Big 5.There will be some back room deals as there is an anything now a days. I think the deal was already struck when the outfitters gave up the 90/10 for the big 3. The task force is just a charade for the outcomes of the folks hiding behind the curtain. This is not
over yet.
Rich
I agree. I am really hoping to get my sheep tag and not enjoying the stress and expense until I do. My dream for 25 years has been to take a RMBS DIY and this is likely my last chance. With 22 points today it is likely I will draw but guys with more points will jump around trying to draw before they change the system to bonus points (which they will do). I could easily guess wrong for 5 years.You NR hunters need to stop indulging these characters. they're having a blast laughing at how they took your money for decades only to cut your allotment in half and screw you over. you agreed to pay more all the time to stay in the game but you were never told the goal post was going to get moved to the 200 yard line .
there's nothing you can do about except stop sending them money , unless you're at the top of the point pool maybe then grit your teeth and stay in. now that they've cut it in half don't think they're satisfied , they won't stop until they have it to next to nothing that's what the idiots in OR have done.
just tell them GFYS and walk away and let them have their circle jerk by themselves.
I’m in the same boat. I don’t think I’ll guess right.I agree. I am really hoping to get my sheep tag and not enjoying the stress and expense until I do. My dream for 25 years has been to take a RMBS DIY and this is likely my last chance. With 22 points today it is likely I will draw but guys with more points will jump around trying to draw before they change the system to bonus points (which they will do). I could easily guess wrong for 5 years.
Frustrating because as you said there is pretty much nothing to do but bail. G&F do not care they are making so much money.
Shouldn't we be offered a refund? I feel like we should after waiting 20+ years, but that's just one persons opinion.Looks like there will be 39 preference point licenses issued to NR this year (45 total). That number will drop to 18 licenses (at most) beginning in 2023. There are 106 NRs holding 23+ points and another 282 NR holding 22 points. Unless most of the 23'ers have dozed off, only a fraction of the 22 point guys will draw a license by preference this year. If they make the change to a bonus system right away, which they'll probably need to do to retain their millions of dollars in points revenue, you guys may be SOL.
Maybe, but that will probably never happen because they're going to make sure points "still have value". Meaning they'll switch to a bonus point system. I wonder how many guys would give up their chances for a sheep license with 20 points (or 20x20=400) if offered a refund? Very few would, I'm guessing.Shouldn't we be offered a refund? I feel like we should after waiting 20+ years, but that's just one persons opinion.
Why would you get a refund? You get to keep your PP's.Shouldn't we be offered a refund? I feel like we should after waiting 20+ years, but that's just one persons opinion.
That is false, the game changed significantly and it is definitely not designed to do what we paid for, especially if they change to bonus. I went from drawing in my 50s to if I am lucky and they don't change to bonus points to my 70s. If they change to bonus points then I likely never draw. So I did not get what I paid for. I know we have discussed this, but I feel that this is what is fair and equitable. If you want the tags, fine, then pay back the points money. Can you name other similar situations that have occurred in any walk of life? I am sure they are out there, just can't think of them off the top of my head as I wasn't part of them. Since money is no issue to the G&F in Wyoming, a few million shouldn't really matter, right?Zero chance you'll get a refund for something you still have and will continue to do what they were designed to do.
I can name a bunch.That is false, the game changed significantly and it is definitely not designed to do what we paid for, especially if they change to bonus. I went from drawing in my 50s to if I am lucky and they don't change to bonus points to my 70s. If they change to bonus points then I likely never draw. So I did not get what I paid for. I know we have discussed this, but I feel that this is what is fair and equitable. If you want the tags, fine, then pay back the points money. Can you name other similar situations that have occurred in any walk of life? I am sure they are out there, just can't think of them off the top of my head as I wasn't part of them. Since money is no issue to the G&F in Wyoming, a few million shouldn't really matter, right?
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.