90/10 not going away...

[LivingTheDream]

I think all you pissed off nr should contact G&F about their stupid idea of wiping out our mature buck population due to fear of the unknown (CWD).

Because if DEA goes 90/10 as well, you won't have any mature bucks to hunt.

Do it now.

As I have been told it is up to the residents to manage their game population and tags. I have also been told sending emails and reaching out has the opposite effect since I am a non resident.

I hope G&F listens to the residents of Wyoming and does not implement the late seasons.

 

[SS!]

Hey guys I’m collecting tears from people crying over 90/10. I’m hoping to get tears from all 50 states. Could you please send me your tears in a spill proof container to the following:

P.O. Box 976583
Anchorage AK 99518

Thank You.

 

[WapitiBob]

That is false, the game changed significantly and it is definitely not designed to do what we paid for, especially if they change to bonus.

Points were designed to give you an advantage over those with fewer; exactly what they do now, and will continue do in a random Bonus Point draw.

 

[rmanwill]

Points were designed to give you an advantage over those with fewer; exactly what they do now, and will continue do in a random Bonus Point draw.

It is what it is, but do disagree with your post. Preference points were designed to garrenttee the top point holders a tag. Bonus points just gives a small advantage in a raffle. And with even fewer tags in the raffle it will be a very small advantage.

Hoping to draw this year with my 22 points or I will not plan on drawing in my life time with my draw success in past draws. ?. But like I said, it is what it is. Pay to play.

 

[nripepi]

Points were designed to give you an advantage over those with fewer; exactly what they do now, and will continue do in a random Bonus Point draw.

Very very far from exactly the same. We paid for a preference point, not a bonus point.

 

[SS!]

Very very far from exactly the same. We paid for a preference point, not a bonus point.

Then use your preference points before they become bonus points

 

[BeDawg]

This is a great chance way for Wyoming to chip away with the support of likeminded hunters who can help advocate for wildlife and wild places within the borders. Seems like a move the state of California or Oregon would make. Cheers to the slow downfall guys.

 

[mulecreek]

Who knew that the one thing holding the entire structure of conservation and wildlife management in the US together was Wyoming giving 25% of its sheep and moose tags to NR's.

 

[nripepi]

Then use your preference points before they become bonus points

I am trying and try every year! Sitting at 21 and likely won"t get a tag.

 

[DonVathome]

If you look at the math when I entered the game in 1999 I knew I was sure to draw in 25-30 years. For 20 years they kept the game the same. No guarantee it would not change but 20 years of giving them well over $5,000 in point fees (sheep & moose).............

Many say NR were never guaranteed a tag. True G&F did not but the math did. 3% of people drop out a year. In 30 years for every 100 apps that were ahead of you only 41 remain just from drop outs. When you combine this with the number of tags - drawing a sheep or moose tag was a sure thing. I am not talking about a bad unit. I am talking about unit 5 where a NR can hunt sheep outside wilderness.

Going into the 2021 draw there were 127 guys ahead of me. Roughly 5 drop out every year and about 40 with more points then me draw. I did not check new stats but they will be almost exactly: 127 - 5 (drop) - 40 (draw) = 82 remaining. That means in 3 years I am at max points. There might be a very very small number of guys with more points but half sit out the draw every year and there are a lot of units better then unit 5 so myself and all other guys with the same points as me will draw in 2-3 years.

I knew I was sure to draw if things remained the same. They did until I spent a ton of money then they changed the game.

It is obvious that asap WY will change the draw system. Yes I have my points NOW.

WY has mastered taking money from NR no doubt about it. The 2 years I know of when they sent NR the questionnaire designed to figure out how to get the most money from NR's, for the longest time, giving out the least number of tags.

WY knows NR will see random odds so low they will give up applying and significantly fewer new NR will enter the draw. They will change the draw to 50/50 or, more likely 75/25. Good chance it might go to pure bonus points. At that point my chances of drawing are well below 1% per year - after 25 years of what WAS a sure tag and dropping over $2,000 (for a sheep tag alone).

That is called bait and switch.

I went for sure to draw my sheep tag to what will likely become no chance. That is a fact. I have enough points now I will probably barely get in and draw. Anyone with 21 points or less basically will never get a WY sheep tag, not even in 20 more years.

Maybe WY will not change the draw to more/all bonus points tags but it is a very good assumption given their history.

Again this is clearly bait and switch, not illegal but not ethical IMO. And no, I do not expect WY G&F to be ethical that ship has sailed. They are a business and NR are the cash cow and there is NOTHING we can do about it and that is frustrating.

 

[SS!]

I am trying and try every year! Sitting at 21 and likely won"t get a tag.

Well you got what you paid for, preference points to use to apply for tags. If you’re against bonus points I suggest not to buy any once they switch over.

Good luck in the draws. I have a full fall of sheep, moose and goat hunts.

 

[mulecreek]

Bait and Switch definition:

the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods which are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.

Do you honestly believe that 20+ years ago when they started the PP program they intended to change it in 2022 just to scam you out of money?

Seems to me they have modified the program given 20+ years of changes in herd numbers, population dynamics and popularity. On top of that they have given you several years of advanced noticed of possible change and at least a years advanced notice of a guaranteed change. Sounds like management to me. You may not like the change but if this is WGF's attempt at Bait and Switch it is the most transparent B&W in history.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

If you look at the math when I entered the game in 1999 I knew I was sure to draw in 25-30 years. For 20 years they kept the game the same. No guarantee it would not change but 20 years of giving them well over $5,000 in point fees (sheep & moose).............

Many say NR were never guaranteed a tag. True G&F did not but the math did. 3% of people drop out a year. In 30 years for every 100 apps that were ahead of you only 41 remain just from drop outs. When you combine this with the number of tags - drawing a sheep or moose tag was a sure thing. I am not talking about a bad unit. I am talking about unit 5 where a NR can hunt sheep outside wilderness.

Going into the 2021 draw there were 127 guys ahead of me. Roughly 5 drop out every year and about 40 with more points then me draw. I did not check new stats but they will be almost exactly: 127 - 5 (drop) - 40 (draw) = 82 remaining. That means in 3 years I am at max points. There might be a very very small number of guys with more points but half sit out the draw every year and there are a lot of units better then unit 5 so myself and all other guys with the same points as me will draw in 2-3 years.

I knew I was sure to draw if things remained the same. They did until I spent a ton of money then they changed the game.

It is obvious that asap WY will change the draw system. Yes I have my points NOW.

WY has mastered taking money from NR no doubt about it. The 2 years I know of when they sent NR the questionnaire designed to figure out how to get the most money from NR's, for the longest time, giving out the least number of tags.

WY knows NR will see random odds so low they will give up applying and significantly fewer new NR will enter the draw. They will change the draw to 50/50 or, more likely 75/25. Good chance it might go to pure bonus points. At that point my chances of drawing are well below 1% per year - after 25 years of what WAS a sure tag and dropping over $2,000 (for a sheep tag alone).

That is called bait and switch.

I went for sure to draw my sheep tag to what will likely become no chance. That is a fact. I have enough points now I will probably barely get in and draw. Anyone with 21 points or less basically will never get a WY sheep tag, not even in 20 more years.

Maybe WY will not change the draw to more/all bonus points tags but it is a very good assumption given their history.

Again this is clearly bait and switch, not illegal but not ethical IMO. And no, I do not expect WY G&F to be ethical that ship has sailed. They are a business and NR are the cash cow and there is NOTHING we can do about it and that is frustrating.

I don’t have a pony in this race but if I felt as strongly as you and others I’ve heard about I would hire a lawyer and file a class action law suit. Sometimes it’s the only course of action a man has. Good luck on your hunts this year.

 

[30Hart]

If you look at the math when I entered the game in 1999 I knew I was sure to draw in 25-30 years. For 20 years they kept the game the same. No guarantee it would not change but 20 years of giving them well over $5,000 in point fees (sheep & moose).............

Many say NR were never guaranteed a tag. True G&F did not but the math did. 3% of people drop out a year. In 30 years for every 100 apps that were ahead of you only 41 remain just from drop outs. When you combine this with the number of tags - drawing a sheep or moose tag was a sure thing. I am not talking about a bad unit. I am talking about unit 5 where a NR can hunt sheep outside wilderness.

Going into the 2021 draw there were 127 guys ahead of me. Roughly 5 drop out every year and about 40 with more points then me draw. I did not check new stats but they will be almost exactly: 127 - 5 (drop) - 40 (draw) = 82 remaining. That means in 3 years I am at max points. There might be a very very small number of guys with more points but half sit out the draw every year and there are a lot of units better then unit 5 so myself and all other guys with the same points as me will draw in 2-3 years.

I knew I was sure to draw if things remained the same. They did until I spent a ton of money then they changed the game.

It is obvious that asap WY will change the draw system. Yes I have my points NOW.

WY has mastered taking money from NR no doubt about it. The 2 years I know of when they sent NR the questionnaire designed to figure out how to get the most money from NR's, for the longest time, giving out the least number of tags.

WY knows NR will see random odds so low they will give up applying and significantly fewer new NR will enter the draw. They will change the draw to 50/50 or, more likely 75/25. Good chance it might go to pure bonus points. At that point my chances of drawing are well below 1% per year - after 25 years of what WAS a sure tag and dropping over $2,000 (for a sheep tag alone).

That is called bait and switch.

I went for sure to draw my sheep tag to what will likely become no chance. That is a fact. I have enough points now I will probably barely get in and draw. Anyone with 21 points or less basically will never get a WY sheep tag, not even in 20 more years.

Maybe WY will not change the draw to more/all bonus points tags but it is a very good assumption given their history.

Again this is clearly bait and switch, not illegal but not ethical IMO. And no, I do not expect WY G&F to be ethical that ship has sailed. They are a business and NR are the cash cow and there is NOTHING we can do about it and that is frustrating.

Your math is a little off on the 5k...points were cheap in the beginning then raised some and only recently been at the higher level they are now. I'm in same boat as you. Only hope is people dying or dropping out in front of us before we can't hunt anymore.

 

[jm77]

And no, I do not expect WY G&F to be ethical that ship has sailed. They are a business and NR are the cash cow and there is NOTHING we can do about it and that is frustrating.

The G&F Dept had nothing to do with changing to 90/10. The legislature did that.

 

[WapitiBob]

A NR with the max of 27 points paid a total of $3,440.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

The G&F Dept had nothing to do with changing to 90/10. The legislature did that.

Doesn’t the legislature act on the recommendations of its Departments head?

 

[jm77]

Doesn’t the legislature act on the recommendations of its Departments head?

The G&F Dept provides information only on issues like these, they are not allowed a position.

 

[LivingTheDream]

The G&F Dept provides information only on issues like these, they are not allowed a position.

So I know I am kind of crossing threads/topics. But how is that going to work for the late mule deer hunts. I am assuming they would be increasing tag numbers?

Or is that G&F decides number of tags and season and legislation just decides the allocation?

 

[Bigfoot 1]

The G&F Dept provides information only on issues like these, they are not allowed a position.

Information substantiating their position weighs heavily compared to others, after all they are supposed to be the experts right…

 

[jm77]

Information substantiating their position weighs heavily compared to others, after all they are supposed to be the experts right…

Read this: G&F Dept had NOTHING to do with changing to 90/10, other than providing answers to questions from TF members and the legislature. They had no position.

 

[BuzzH]

Read this: G&F Dept had NOTHING to do with changing to 90/10, other than providing answers to questions from TF members and the legislature. They had no position.

You get an A for effort but you won't get through to people that are incapable of learning.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

You get an A for effort but you won't get through to people that are incapable of learning.

If you’re referring to me, well I ask questions to learn. If somebody thinks that the Game and Fish Department doesn’t have any influence over regulations, policies, procedures and laws passed by the legislation pertaining to State Wildlife than I’ve got some ocean front property full of record book elk to sell them here in NM.

 

[BuzzH]

If you’re referring to me, well I ask questions to learn. If somebody thinks that the Game and Fish Department doesn’t have any influence over regulations, policies, procedures and laws passed by the legislation pertaining to State Wildlife than I’ve got some ocean front property full of record book elk to sell them here in NM.

I rest my case.

 

[nripepi]

Your math is a little off on the 5k...points were cheap in the beginning then raised some and only recently been at the higher level they are now. I'm in same boat as you. Only hope is people dying or dropping out in front of us before we can't hunt anymore.

In 2006 they were raised to $100 per point for sheep when the E/D/A points game started. Then they were moved to $150 per point because they could I guess 5 or so years back. Then they cut the tags to 10%. Then next they will change it to Bonus points.

They should at least offer a refund if you do something on one premise for 15+ years and then change the game. Those in over two decades have a reason to be upset, I know I am.

 

[SS!]

If you’re referring to me, well I ask questions to learn. If somebody thinks that the Game and Fish Department doesn’t have any influence over regulations, policies, procedures and laws passed by the legislation pertaining to State Wildlife than I’ve got some ocean front property full of record book elk to sell them here in NM.

There’s no ocean front property in NM

 

[Southpawshooter]

I have an idea. WY should require all NR buy a license to put in. Let's say $150 for the license and $50 per species for processing. We will give points for free.

This thread is like a crazy ex-girlfriend. Damn thing won't go away.

 

[nripepi]

I have an idea. WY should require all NR buy a license to put in. Let's say $150 for the license and $50 per species for processing. We will give points for free.

This thread is like a crazy ex-girlfriend. Damn thing won't go away.

Sign me up! That is less than we currently pay to apply and buy a point.

If you were in the same boat, I highly doubt you would let this go. Imagine you have thought about hunting sheep for 2+ decades, have made plans, talked to outfitters in a bunch of units, stayed in sheep shape, paid your dues in money and time and then that dream is crushed right about when you are going to draw a tag, wouldn't you be just a bit upset or think it wasn't quite fair? I completely understand why residents want more tags, everyone wants more tags! Residents should understand why a non-resident with over 20 points would be upset, right?

 

[Teepee]

If you look at the math when I entered the game in 1999 I knew I was sure to draw in 25-30 years. For 20 years they kept the game the same. No guarantee it would not change but 20 years of giving them well over $5,000 in point fees (sheep & moose).............

Many say NR were never guaranteed a tag. True G&F did not but the math did. 3% of people drop out a year. In 30 years for every 100 apps that were ahead of you only 41 remain just from drop outs. When you combine this with the number of tags - drawing a sheep or moose tag was a sure thing. I am not talking about a bad unit. I am talking about unit 5 where a NR can hunt sheep outside wilderness.

Going into the 2021 draw there were 127 guys ahead of me. Roughly 5 drop out every year and about 40 with more points then me draw. I did not check new stats but they will be almost exactly: 127 - 5 (drop) - 40 (draw) = 82 remaining. That means in 3 years I am at max points. There might be a very very small number of guys with more points but half sit out the draw every year and there are a lot of units better then unit 5 so myself and all other guys with the same points as me will draw in 2-3 years.

I knew I was sure to draw if things remained the same. They did until I spent a ton of money then they changed the game.

It is obvious that asap WY will change the draw system. Yes I have my points NOW.

WY has mastered taking money from NR no doubt about it. The 2 years I know of when they sent NR the questionnaire designed to figure out how to get the most money from NR's, for the longest time, giving out the least number of tags.

WY knows NR will see random odds so low they will give up applying and significantly fewer new NR will enter the draw. They will change the draw to 50/50 or, more likely 75/25. Good chance it might go to pure bonus points. At that point my chances of drawing are well below 1% per year - after 25 years of what WAS a sure tag and dropping over $2,000 (for a sheep tag alone).

That is called bait and switch.

I went for sure to draw my sheep tag to what will likely become no chance. That is a fact. I have enough points now I will probably barely get in and draw. Anyone with 21 points or less basically will never get a WY sheep tag, not even in 20 more years.

Maybe WY will not change the draw to more/all bonus points tags but it is a very good assumption given their history.

Again this is clearly bait and switch, not illegal but not ethical IMO. And no, I do not expect WY G&F to be ethical that ship has sailed. They are a business and NR are the cash cow and there is NOTHING we can do about it and that is frustrating.

Are you saying that the Wyoming G&F should have anticipated a 50+% drop moose & sheep numbers compared to when the preference point system was implemented? At the time, the chief wildlife biologist for G&F (Harry Harju) told me that the preference point system wouldn't work because Wy would run out of hunters for those species. I remember running some numbers at that time and it would take about 10 years max to draw a tag, given the applicant pool and tags available. Times & circumstances change. States adapt.

 

[mulecreek]

At the time, the chief wildlife biologist for G&F (Harry Harju) told me that the preference point system wouldn't work because Wy would run out of hunters for those species.

That's all part of the big Bait and Switch. You have no idea how deep this con goes.

 

[Southpawshooter]

If you were in the same boat, I highly doubt you would let this go. Imagine you have thought about hunting sheep for 2+ decades, have made plans, talked to outfitters in a bunch of units, stayed in sheep shape, paid your dues in money and time and then that dream is crushed right about when you are going to draw a tag, wouldn't you be just a bit upset or think it wasn't quite fair? I completely understand why residents want more tags, everyone wants more tags! Residents should understand why a non-resident with over 20 points would be upset, right?

Well, keep at it then. I am sure some legislator in WY will wake up in the middle of the night and think to himself, "Self, that nripepi sure got screwed. We should change it back."

 

[Southpawshooter]

Sign me up! That is less than we currently pay to apply and buy a point.

You are right. You currently pay $300 for sheep and moose and $124 for DEA. That's $424.00. If you pay $150 for a license and $50 per species that's $400. However, those guys who don't put in for sheep and moose will be paying $176.00 more and will probably start applying for sheep and moose, especially if they go bonus points. In the end, it's a net gain for G&F. Plus when they change the point system in 10 years, I don't have listen to you complain because the points would be free.

 

[BuzzH]

Sign me up! That is less than we currently pay to apply and buy a point.

If you were in the same boat, I highly doubt you would let this go. Imagine you have thought about hunting sheep for 2+ decades, have made plans, talked to outfitters in a bunch of units, stayed in sheep shape, paid your dues in money and time and then that dream is crushed right about when you are going to draw a tag, wouldn't you be just a bit upset or think it wasn't quite fair? I completely understand why residents want more tags, everyone wants more tags! Residents should understand why a non-resident with over 20 points would be upset, right?

I've been in the exact same boat and even worse.

I let it go...nothing you can do.

 

[WapitiBob]

Sign me up! That is less than we currently pay to apply and buy a point.

If you were in the same boat, I highly doubt you would let this go. Imagine you have thought about hunting sheep for 2+ decades, have made plans, talked to outfitters in a bunch of units, stayed in sheep shape, paid your dues in money and time and then that dream is crushed right about when you are going to draw a tag, wouldn't you be just a bit upset or think it wasn't quite fair? I completely understand why residents want more tags, everyone wants more tags! Residents should understand why a non-resident with over 20 points would be upset, right?

You're a long long way from a sheep license with 20 points. The only reason NR with 22/23 points are drawing is because the guys with more are riding the pine.

 

[SS!]

Sign me up! That is less than we currently pay to apply and buy a point.

If you were in the same boat, I highly doubt you would let this go. Imagine you have thought about hunting sheep for 2+ decades, have made plans, talked to outfitters in a bunch of units, stayed in sheep shape, paid your dues in money and time and then that dream is crushed right about when you are going to draw a tag, wouldn't you be just a bit upset or think it wasn't quite fair? I completely understand why residents want more tags, everyone wants more tags! Residents should understand why a non-resident with over 20 points would be upset, right?

Damn you seem committed. Too bad you don’t have max points.

If you want to hunt sheep so bad why don’t you move to WY? Your odds will go up a lot.

What is sheep shape? I should try to get in shape before I go this fall. Maybe I could take more than 3 lbs of salami this year if I was in shape…

 

[nripepi]

I've been in the exact same boat and even worse.

I let it go...nothing you can do.

That's what I have been asking, when and where? Seriously curious.

 

[nripepi]

Damn you seem committed. Too bad you don’t have max points.

If you want to hunt sheep so bad why don’t you move to WY? Your odds will go up a lot.

What is sheep shape? I should try to get in shape before I go this fall. Maybe I could take more than 3 lbs of salami this year if I was in shape…

I just need 22 instead of 21 points and I would have had a tag or would get one in the near future. What the heck am I supposed to do with 21? Just keep paying the $150? I seriously don't know what to do and I would seriously consider just taking my 2K in points back and leave and let you all have the sheep. I really feel I should be given that option, your choice take your money or keep your points as bonus points or move to Wyoming before they turn into bonus points!

 

[Bigfoot 1]

I rest my case.

Well, I don’t believe everything I read on the internet and see on television. I guess I was just raised different. At least you’re trying so I give you an “A” for effort. Good luck on your draw.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

In 2006 they were raised to $100 per point for sheep when the E/D/A points game started. Then they were moved to $150 per point because they could I guess 5 or so years back. Then they cut the tags to 10%. Then next they will change it to Bonus points.

They should at least offer a refund if you do something on one premise for 15+ years and then change the game. Those in over two decades have a reason to be upset, I know I am.

Tell that to Buzz H…

 

[SS!]

I just need 22 instead of 21 points and I would have had a tag or would get one in the near future. What the heck am I supposed to do with 21? Just keep paying the $150? I seriously don't know what to do and I would seriously consider just taking my 2K in points back and leave and let you all have the sheep. I really feel I should be given that option, your choice take your money or keep your points as bonus points or move to Wyoming before they turn into bonus points!

Why don’t you have 24? Do you ask for refunds when you don’t win a raffle?

Money is easy to make. 2k? That’s it? I’ve spent 200 dollars on a sheep hunt before and didn’t kill a sheep.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

Why don’t you have 24? Do you ask for refunds when you don’t win a raffle?

Money is easy to make. 2k? That’s it? I’ve spent 200 dollars on a sheep hunt before and didn’t kill a sheep.

$200 dollars? Were you hunting some kids prized 4/H Suffolk?

 

[BuzzH]

That's what I have been asking, when and where? Seriously curious.

Go back and read my posts.

 

[nripepi]

Go back and read my posts.

There's 4301 to read , I will look, but could you point me to the post or a state or something?

 

[Bigfoot 1]

There's 4301 to read , I will look, but could you point me to the post or a state or something?

 

[SS!]

$200 dollars? Were you hunting some kids prized 4/H Suffolk?

Probably taste better than the dall sheep I’ve killed

 

[jm77]

There's 4301 to read , I will look, but could you point me to the post or a state or something?

Wait and see if they go bonus points.

 

[nripepi]

I can name a bunch.

There were thousands of people in Montana that bought points and they scrapped the entire point program.

I applied in CO for RFW tags as a NR and then they stopped allowing me to apply at all for those.

I applied and gained points in Montana and they changed it to squared points.

I applied for and received a point in AZ for hunters ed and had to drive down there to do it in person. Now its all online.

What should I do, ask for my hotel room and gas money back since they changed the rules?

Speaking of AZ their preference system excluded me from even drawing a vast majority of the best tags there for years. Corrected now, but how many were drawing dead...thousands a year.

Quit crying, things change and that's been a given forever...move on to something that matters.

I guess this is the post, sorry it was right there.

I don't know much about Montana's earlier system, but they still have a bonus point system for sheep and squared is better than not squared if you have a bunch of points. How did the system that they have get scrapped if they have a system now? Just curious.

AZ doesn't sound like a similar issue at all to Wyoming sheep and they make you pay $300 to take that course for the point so definitely apples to oranges.

Colorado RFW may be something, but you can still hunt deer or elk in a bunch of good units if you had enough points for a RFW tag, your points are still worth a lot there.

I don't know, I couldn't find a similar situation out there to this one for me. There are not a ton of us in this situation in Wyoming.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Wait and see if they go bonus points.

Bonus points is more of keeping the money train going. Comparing having 22 preference points to 22 Bonus points is really apples to oranges.

 

[jims]

Obviously with pref those with highest pts draw tags. Changing to bonus pts those with max pts may never draw a tag in their lifetimes. Suddenly with bonus pts is it worth spending $150/year to apply? The fact is nonres with close to max pts have been hosed! There are no if, and, or buts about it! Nonres have been totally screwed! That is a heck of a lot of years and $ invested in their system to be suddenly thrown to the wind.

I certainly feel for those with 15 to 20 pts that have paid a premium price to apply for tags and suddenly the carpet is slid out from under them.

The same thing will be true if 90/10 happens for e/d/a. I’m sure a lot of nonres will get fed up paying high $ pref point fees with virtually no chance to draw high demand limited tags. What will the wg&f do then if nonres aren’t donating their pref pt $? Is Wyo going to screw nonres with high pref pts for d/e/a applicants as well?

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I guess this is the post, sorry it was right there.


AZ doesn't sound like a similar issue at all to Wyoming sheep and they make you pay $300 to take that course for the point so definitely apples to oranges.

There are two different ways to gain an extra point. One is the online "ethics" course at $300. The other is actually taking Hunter Ed, which requires a visit to AZ for either the entire course or at least, the field day. A person can accrue only one extra point from either of these, however.

 

[Bookhead]

I don't know why anyone is still complaining about it on here. It's done. It happened. It's over. Move on

 

[nripepi]

I don't know why anyone is still complaining about it on here. It's done. It happened. It's over. Move on

It surely is not done for those sitting at 22+ points, they really want to keep it as a preference system to guarantee they will draw in their lifetime. Those under 20 would probably prefer a bonus system to give them a better chance. Those with 20-21, who knows what they will prefer as I am in that boat and not sure which is better.

 

[Bookhead]

I don't want bonus points either. No reason to whine about it on here. The time will come im sure to weigh in on it

 

[30Hart]

Whatever they do it will be the same for the residents. No state has 2 separate point systems.

 

[BuzzH]

Whatever they do it will be the same for the residents. No state has 2 separate point systems.

No reason why there couldn't be different systems between r and nr.

 

[30Hart]

No reason why there couldn't be different systems between r and nr.

True statement. It would be a first and you have residents that may have work that takes them out of state with the intent of settling back in Wyoming. People moving in and out of state...the points have to be transferrable. Rich do it all the time so that's why I dont think it'll happen.

 

[BuzzH]

True statement. It would be a first and you have residents that may have work that takes them out of state with the intent of settling back in Wyoming. People moving in and out of state...the points have to be transferrable. Rich do it all the time so that's why I dont think it'll happen.

Why do they have to be transferable?

 

[jims]

Wyo res don’t have pref pts for e/d/a but nonres do. If a nonres moves to Wyo with e/d/a pts it really doesn’t do him any good.

 

[30Hart]

Why do they have to be transferable?

They of course don't have to be but the presicdence has been set with other states not to mention it would cost more to maintain two different systems. I don't see Wyoming going that way. They like simple not complicated things. I used to live there and I would say they take a more logical choice than say Utah does.

 

[SS!]

Wyo res don’t have pref pts for e/d/a but nonres do. If a nonres moves to Wyo with e/d/a pts it really doesn’t do him any good.

Yes it does. He can hunt deer areas that take 7 points plus…every year

 

[jims]

SS, give me a break! Like usual you don’t ever have anything constructive to say! You know I’m not talking about general units!

E/D/A is just like sheep for nonres used to be! Here goes…

Some of the draw e/d/a units are currently 100% chance to draw for nonres with close to max pts with the current pref pt system. The same units for res have poor draw odds without a pref pt system. If nonres pref pt system is changed to bonus pts the draw odds for nonres would be horrible for the same nonres with close yo max pts.

 

[lostinOregon]

Let's focus on stopping WY fish and game from exterminating bucks because of CWD. I don't care if ever get another WY tag as a non-resident, but wiping out mature bucks is not the answer to CWD and we all should care about that.

Rich

 

[nripepi]

Let's focus on stopping WY fish and game from exterminating bucks because of CWD. I don't care if ever get another WY tag as a non-resident, but wiping out mature bucks is not the answer to CWD and we all should care about that.

Rich

I am curious how you know for sure? I want big bucks like everyone else, but if they are the ones most likely to have it then are they not most likely to spread it during the rut?

 

[Bookhead]

I am curious how you know for sure? I want big bucks like everyone else, but if they are the ones most likely to have it then are they not most likely to spread it during the rut?

Who says they are most likely to have it? The game and fish ?

 

[jims]

Colo targeted bucks years and years ago. Bucks had a tiny percent higher % of CWD than does at that time. The other reason the CPW uses for targeting bucks is they say that during the rut they are moving around in the herd more than does. There is possibly a better chance they are transporting prions around.

Mature bucks that are breeding does are usually the top genetics available in the herd. How can mature bucks that use all their reserves rutting during Nov/Dec survive winters if they are crippled by CWD? Wouldn't they surely die if in a weakened state? We wouldn't see mature bucks in the herds where CWD exists if this was the case! We've seen mature, older age class bucks harvested in CWD hot-beds in Colo that tested positive to CWD that are 6 to 8 years old and in prime shape! I call hogwash on the mature buck scenario! Targeting the best gene-pool in the herd is not a good answer!

Once the prions are in the soil CWD is in the herds from that time forward. The large culling projects that Colo conducted back in the 80's did virtually nothing other than wipe out an incredible number of deer. CWD still spread throughout Colo and remains fairly stable regardless of whether culling or late season hunts did or did not occur!

There is a segment of the deer population that has lived through the culling projects and the % of CWD remains stable no matter if culling is done or not. No one has any idea if the deer that have survived CWD actually have more resistance to CWD? Culling and late seasons may actually do more harm than good if a large % of the deer are healthy and carry some sort of resistance.

I can guarantee that predators do a fantastic job of picking out the truly sick deer! This is true with CWD, EHD, or any other disease!

I haven't seen the WG&F bat an eye over EHD prevention. From what I've seen with Wyo deer and antelope I believe EHD can actually cause more deaths than CWD ever documented in wild populations...especially if drought cycles persist! I really think EHD could be a contributing factor in why we are seeing so few antelope across Wyo. From what I understand midges on water is the source of EHD. Water is a limited commodity throughout most of Wyo and accentuated even more in drought..and antelope need water on almost a daily basis. I'm not sure if it would work, but how about treating some of the water sources where EHD midges exist or some other effective midge treatment? Some areas have very few water sources in drought years!

Anyway, the trend for the antelope population across Wyo is in a dramatic downward spiral. Fawn recruitment is just about 0 in many areas! CWD is squat compared to what I'm seeing with Wyo's antelope population! That is truly something to worry about and right now!

 

[Bigfoot 1]

Colo targeted bucks years and years ago. Bucks had a tiny percent higher % of CWD than does at that time. The other reason the CPW uses for targeting bucks is they say that during the rut they are moving around in the herd more than does. There is possibly a better chance they are transporting prions around.

Mature bucks that are breeding does are usually the top genetics available in the herd. How can mature bucks that use all their reserves rutting during Nov/Dec survive winters if they are crippled by CWD? Wouldn't they surely die if in a weakened state? We wouldn't see mature bucks in the herds where CWD exists if this was the case! We've seen mature, older age class bucks harvested in CWD hot-beds in Colo that tested positive to CWD that are 6 to 8 years old and in prime shape! I call hogwash on the mature buck scenario! Targeting the best gene-pool in the herd is not a good answer!

Once the prions are in the soil CWD is in the herds from that time forward. The large culling projects that Colo conducted back in the 80's did virtually nothing other than wipe out an incredible number of deer. CWD still spread throughout Colo and remains fairly stable regardless of whether culling or late season hunts did or did not occur!

There is a segment of the deer population that has lived through the culling projects and the % of CWD remains stable no matter if culling is done or not. No one has any idea if the deer that have survived CWD actually have more resistance to CWD? Culling and late seasons may actually do more harm than good if a large % of the deer are healthy and carry some sort of resistance.

I can guarantee that predators do a fantastic job of picking out the truly sick deer! This is true with CWD, EHD, or any other disease!

I haven't seen the WG&F bat an eye over EHD prevention. From what I've seen with Wyo deer and antelope I believe EHD can actually cause more deaths than CWD ever documented in wild populations...especially if drought cycles persist! I really think EHD could be a contributing factor in why we are seeing so few antelope across Wyo. From what I understand midges on water is the source of EHD. Water is a limited commodity throughout most of Wyo and accentuated even more in drought..and antelope need water on almost a daily basis. I'm not sure if it would work, but how about treating some of the water sources where EHD midges exist or some other effective midge treatment? Some areas have very few water sources in drought years!

Anyway, the trend for the antelope population across Wyo is in a dramatic downward spiral. Fawn recruitment is just about 0 in many areas! CWD is squat compared to what I'm seeing with Wyo's antelope population! That is truly something to worry about and right now!

Doe’s Wyoming have a predator problem when it comes to antelope?

 

[wytex]

Doe’s Wyoming have a predator problem when it comes to antelope?

I'll just say this past winter we drive through winter range to get to a ranch for feeding horses, we stopped and took coyotes several times that were around the wintering pronghorn herds, another local guy was also out taking coyotes from this same area.
Yes coyotes and other predators hang out on winter range.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

I'll just say this past winter we drive through winter range to get to a ranch for feeding horses, we stopped and took coyotes several times that were around the wintering pronghorn herds, another local guy was also out taking coyotes from this same area.
Yes coyotes and other predators hang out on winter range.

Where I hunt in NM the coyotes and mountain lions have decimated the deer herds. I shoot those predators as often as I can.

 

[jm77]

Maybe this thread will become the "catch-all" for all topics!

 

[SS!]

We’ve finally got to the root of the problem. Predators! It’s so obvious now. We should make super liberal hunting seasons on predators. Like a 365 day a year coyote season! No limit on them! Those pesky coyotes are real reason we faced 90/10

 

[Bigfoot 1]

We’ve finally got to the root of the problem. Predators! It’s so obvious now. We should make super liberal hunting seasons on predators. Like a 365 day a year coyote season! No limit on them! Those pesky coyotes are real reason we faced 90/10

Actually just tired of hearing all the children whine and cry about 90/10. Thought I might steer the conversation in another direction for those of us who not only kill Deer every year but enjoy killing those predators who kill deer also. Anyways, please carry on, you guys are about to solve that pesky 90/10 problem no doubt. It’s still a fascinating subject even after a million posts.

 

[SS!]

Actually just tired of hearing all the children whine and cry about 90/10. Thought I might steer the conversation in another direction for those of us who not only kill Deer every year but enjoy killing those predators who kill deer also. Anyways, please carry on, you guys are about to solve that pesky 90/10 problem no doubt. It’s still a fascinating subject even after a million posts.

You must be new here. To steer the conversation in another direction you can start a new thread. The 90/10 problem has been solved. It’s a done deal.

 

[Bigfoot 1]

You must be new here. To steer the conversation in another direction you can start a new thread. The 90/10 problem has been solved. It’s a done deal.

Nice! You can also follow me on Twitter and like me on Facebook. This is not the only way to become a fan of mine.

 

[SS!]

Nice! You can also follow me on Twitter and like me on Facebook. This is not the only way to become a fan of mine.

Cool! I don’t have those platforms but I have Instagram. Look me up @spicinthesticks

 

[Bigfoot 1]

Cool! I don’t have those platforms but I have Instagram. Look me up @spicinthesticks

Naw, that’s ok, I get plenty “SS” here.

 

[SS!]

Naw, that’s ok, I get plenty “SS” here.

 

[eelgrass]

View attachment 73214

Can I ride that bull before you shoot him? I signed up to go on one of your hunts. I'll help butcher and pack the meat out, but only if I can use my custom knife.

 

[Savage110]

Damn you seem committed. Too bad you don’t have max points.

If you want to hunt sheep so bad why don’t you move to WY? Your odds will go up a lot.

What is sheep shape? I should try to get in shape before I go this fall. Maybe I could take more than 3 lbs of salami this year if I was in shape…

C’mon SS!, I bet you can take more than 3 lbs of Salami! You just have to relax a bit. All kinds of videos on the net. Just don’t watch at work…

 

[Savage110]

Wyo res don’t have pref pts for e/d/a but nonres do. If a nonres moves to Wyo with e/d/a pts it really doesn’t do him any good.

It will benefit that person when Wyoming eventually goes to PP for residents. It’s just a matter of time. Most other western states already do this just as they already do 90/10. Follow the leader!

 

[BuzzH]

It will benefit that person when Wyoming eventually goes to PP for residents. It’s just a matter of time. Most other western states already do this just as they already do 90/10. Follow the leader!

Meh...who cares. Any changes to a bonus or preference point system for any of it isn't going to impact me a whole lot.

The people that need to pay attention are those that are much younger than me.

Of course, they can always change to what they want down the road.

I'm just happy 90 more residents a year are going to get to hunt moose, sheep, goat, bison and eventually grizzlies.

 

[Savage110]

Meh...who cares. Any changes to a bonus or preference point system for any of it isn't going to impact me a whole lot.

The people that need to pay attention are those that are much younger than me.

Of course, they can always change to what they want down the road.

I'm just happy 90 more residents a year are going to get to hunt moose, sheep, goat, bison and eventually grizzlies.

You will care when me and my points move to Wyoming! Ask the Utah flat brimmers how they feel about CA transplants moving into the state with 15-20 pts. You and the younger WY residents will feel the sting soon enough. My house in Alpine is only going to be empty for another 3 years till I retire. Can’t wait to move to the front of the line and burn my pts on the moose and sheep! Until then enjoy your meh!

 

[BuzzH]

You will care when me and my points move to Wyoming! Ask the Utah flat brimmers how they feel about CA transplants moving into the state with 15-20 pts. You and the younger WY residents will feel the sting soon enough. My house in Alpine is only going to be empty for another 3 years till I retire. Can’t wait to move to the front of the line and burn my pts on the moose and sheep! Until then enjoy your meh!

No, actually, I don't care...

 

[Savage110]

You care so little you you have devoted moths to this thread. You are as believable as Tom Cruise portraying a straight male in his movies. But it’s not about you, right? It’s about the additional 90 resident tags for the young WY hunters, right? Ooops, make that 88 tags after I draw moose and sheep after I cut the line. For me, I’ll pay for BC game until then. I guess I’m the one saying meh

 

[BuzzH]

You care so little you you have devoted moths to this thread. You are as believable as Tom Cruise portraying a straight male in his movies. But it’s not about you, right? It’s about the additional 90 resident tags for the young WY hunters, right? Ooops, make that 88 tags after I draw moose and sheep after I cut the line. For me, I’ll pay for BC game until then. I guess I’m the one saying meh

Wait until I devote butterflies to this thread....

And you're you're stuck on repeat.

 

[Savage110]

When butterfly’s go 90/10 I’m going to really get upset.as for the repeat, thank you for Reposting you brag book photos! It was cool to see them before but even better the second time!

 

[BuzzH]

When butterfly’s go 90/10 I’m going to really get upset.as for the repeat, thank you for Reposting you brag book photos! It was cool to see them before but even better the second time!

Living vicariously for you is as good as it's going to get, so enjoy it.

 

[Savage110]

Living vicariously for you is as good as it's going to get, so enjoy it.

I will give you proper respect for getting pics of those animal without your guide crowding into to photo! Great job!!

 

[BuzzH]

I will give you proper respect for getting pics of those animal without your guide crowding into to photo! Great job!!

That's the best you got?

Lame.

 

[Savage110]

BuzzH is a stabile genius!

 

[WapitiBob]

Wouldn’t take much with the current climate to ensure there is no nr point migration.

 

[BuzzH]

BuzzH is a stabile genius!

View attachment 73234

This would have been really funny in about 3rd grade.

 

[BuzzH]

Wouldn’t take much with the current climate to ensure there is no nr point migration.

Correct...some just don't know when to let things go.

 

[lostinOregon]

I am curious how you know for sure? I want big bucks like everyone else, but if they are the ones most likely to have it then are they not most likely to spread it during the rut?

Show me a scientific study that shows shooting all of the mature bucks stopped the spread into the future? If all the bucks are dead it is a self fulfilling prophecy. Yep, no bucks tested positive for CWD, cause there is none left, yep we solved the problem.

Rich

 

[jims]

Bucks may be dead but prions remain in the soil for years and years! Why cull when the deer that return will pick up prions in the soil and the madness will start all over again.

The deer in Colo haven’t died off, prevalences remain relatively the same from one year to the next, and cwd prions have been in the soil in Colo since the 1980’s.

 

[MQQSE]

Points were designed to give you an advantage over those with fewer; exactly what they do now, and will continue do in a random Bonus Point draw.

Do you think resident points for sheep change to bonus too?

 

[Savage110]

Do you think resident points for sheep change to bonus too?

Yes, that will be the only way G&F will be able to keep the NR money train on the tracks

 

[BuzzH]

Do you think resident points for sheep change to bonus too?

Probably, but you could keep the nr money train going by only making bonus points for nr licenses.

Pretty easy to keep residents under current preference point system.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Probably, but you could keep the nr money train going by only making bonus points for nr licenses.

Pretty easy to keep residents under current preference point system.

I doubt they would change the resident system, as stated it wouldn't be hard to change just the NR system.

Would the change to bonus points need to be done by legislation or is this something G&F could do on its own?

 

[jm77]

I doubt they would change the resident system, as stated it wouldn't be hard to change just the NR system.

Would the change to bonus points need to be done by legislation or is this something G&F could do on its own?

Legislation

 

[newhunter]

Zero chance you'll get a refund for something you still have and will continue to do what they were designed to do.

If the "witch" is made to bonus points. We will longer have preference points. Preference points are designed differently that bonus points. They don't work the same. That's the reason for the change. Bonus points don't have the value preference points do.

Shouldn't we be offered a refund? I feel like we should after waiting 20+ years, but that's just one persons opinion.

Yes I refund is in order if the preference system is dissolved.
We bought preference points base on knowing exactly the number of people in front of us. Bonus points are completely different. Don't work the same as what we paid for. They don't have the same value.