90/10 not going away...

[elks96]

If Wyo truly wants to follow suit with other neighboring state's quotas they may want to re-evaluate the landowner tag quotas and process.

How many Wyo res are aware of how many landowner tags were issued for high demand limited elk, deer, and antelope units in 2021?

There were actually 1,328 elk, 751 deer, and 1,103 antelope type 1, 2, 4 or 9 tags issued in 2021.

What % of the total res and nonres tags do these landowner tags represent?????

There are actually more limited nonres elk landowner tags issued than public draw nonres tags issued in many of the reg/special draws.

If Wyo res are smart and want more opportunity they may want to figure out a strategy to cap landowner tag quotas?

1) Landowner tags are taken off the top.
1) There is no set quota on high demand limited unit landowner tags issued.
2) There isn't a drawing for landowner tags with a fixed cap on the % of landowner tags available.

Possibly consider Colorado's landowner quotas as reference? 10% of limited tags in units West of I25 and 15% of limited tags in units E of I25 are issued in the public drawing to landowners.

Wyo is way more generous to landowners than Colo. In fact, most Wyo limited elk and deer units offer 30%+ of the total limited tags to landowners. I understand that landowner should be given preference for a proportion of these tags...but?

Yeah the big difference, land owners can’t sell or transfer tags. You are comparing apples to oranges again…

And maybe just maybe WY wants to do its own thing and not be like other states?

 

[Conrad8899]

Elks96 I have told jims over and over again whatever Colorado has going on down there they can keep it down there... We won't no part of it weather it OTC elk tags hunting mule deer until Thanksgiving.

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Looks like it moving on !!

 

[LivingTheDream]

Looks like it moving on !!

Is it HB0043? If reading it correctly looks like it is still 75% preference.

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Hmmmm?

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yeah I saw the 90/10 but the split of preference to random appears to still be 75/25 and I know there was some debate about it going 50/50.

 

[elks96]

Hmmmm?

View attachment 68366

What bill number is this? I would love to contact all and work towards the 50/50 random vs points system as well. I would prefer gutting the points system all together and going random but 50/50 is a good middle ground.

 

[jm77]

What bill number is this? I would love to contact all and work towards the 50/50 random vs points system as well. I would prefer gutting the points system all together and going random but 50/50 is a good middle ground.

If you want to change the allocation, you need to contact the Task Force, who is still working on that. Legislators are not likely to even understand what you are talking about and asking for amendments does nothing but put the bill in jeopardy.

 

[elks96]

If you want to change the allocation, you need to contact the Task Force, who is still working on that. Legislators are not likely to even understand what you are talking about and asking for amendments does nothing but put the bill in jeopardy.

So the shared picture above appears it is already being changed. Is it in fact in a bill? Also I thought there was support from the task force to move to the 50/50 allocation? Am I wrong? Was it just mentioned and not explored? Even if they do not understand what I am asking I still like to let me Reps know that it is important and that might just get the to research...

 

[BuzzH]

So the shared picture above appears it is already being changed. Is it in fact in a bill? Also I thought there was support from the task force to move to the 50/50 allocation? Am I wrong? Was it just mentioned and not explored? Even if they do not understand what I am asking I still like to let me Reps know that it is important and that might just get the to research...

Don't get ahead of yourself, this is a process. Read jm77s post.

Now, go read it again.

 

[West River]

Hmmmm?

View attachment 68366

As it stands right now no tags are guaranteed for nonresidents. I do not believe nonresidents are even mentioned in statute when it comes to the issuance of big game hunting licenses. This might be a big liability problem by selling preference points for guaranteed licenses to nonresidents. Just a thought.

 

[LivingTheDream]

As it stands right now no tags are guaranteed for nonresidents. I do not believe nonresidents are even mentioned in statute when it comes to the issuance of big game hunting licenses. This might be a big liability problem by selling preference points for guaranteed licenses to nonresidents. Just a thought.

No its 10%, and directly mentions nonresidents.

 

[Nebsy]

It's imperative that we, as hunters, support states rights as written into the U.S. Constitution. If we fail to do so we will ultimately lose control of the resource with more crap like what came out of Washington in late 60's. Environmental Protection Agency, Endangered Species Act, Wild Horse and Burrow Protection Act. Those three things are tools of the federal government to exert control within states. All three go directly against the U.S. constitution as the constitution specifies wildlife remain a states right.
Citizens of each individual state need to fight for the state's rights.
On the other hand... if the citizens of a state...i.e. Wyoming decide that they want to bring dollars into the state using permits from these permits... that is their right. Just so long as everybody is clear... People who are not residents of that state have zero say in the legality of it. They can speak with their dollars to incentivize it.

 

[Ultimag]

They wont stop leasing up these "vast amounts of Private Lands" until we stop paying for their services. We stop using outfitters, they stop leasing the land. We have the power.

Goid luck with that

 

[Sierra]

@Nebsy. I agree with the first half of your statement. But you need to incentivize hunters to support State Rights. Squeezing out a good portion of the hunters by restricting NR hunting will do the exact opposite.

 

[elks96]

Don't get ahead of yourself, this is a process. Read jm77s post.

Now, go read it again.

Yeah got ya. I misunderstood as I thought the Task Force put both the 90/10 and 50/50 together. But Now I see they are in different places. On the flipside I still will be sending my reps an email regarding the issue and encouraging them to support it in the future.

 

[BuzzH]

@Nebsy. I agree with the first half of your statement. But you need to incentivize hunters to support State Rights. Squeezing out a good portion of the hunters by restricting NR hunting will do the exact opposite.

NR's of a State shouldn't be meddling in the affairs of another State they aren't residents of.

If only obviously....

Take away every NR tag in California, I'll not object to it.

 

[Sierra]

@Buzz. I guess you missed my point. Nebsy was saying that it’s imperative for hunters (both R and NRs) to support states rights. It’s hard to ask for NRs support while at the same trying to squeeze them out of hunting opportunities. If this trend continues throughout the West, we could see fewer hunters support state rights.

 

[BuzzH]

@Buzz. I guess you missed my point. Nebsy was saying that it’s imperative for hunters (both R and NRs) to support states rights. It’s hard to ask for NRs support while at the same trying to squeeze them out of hunting opportunities. If this trend continues throughout the West, we could see fewer hunters support state rights.

Not buying it, and don't believe it.

Legislators in Wyoming don't really care what a NR hunter thinks, in particular anything regarding States rights.

Its already been reaffirmed, and I posted the law already. The States absolutely have the right (a STATE RIGHT) to discriminate against NR's any way they wish.

And they do, guess why?

Because its a state right.

 

[jims]

We all know why nonres are important in Wyo! 77% of the license revenue that supports the WG&F and wildlife in Wyo comes from nonres pockets. Also, consider all the $ nonres generated in Wyo in from RMEF, Sheep foundation, etc. My favorite nonres contribution that the Task Force is aware of is the revenue generated from nonres supporting small town communities!

 

[grosventrehunter]

We all know why nonres are important in Wyo! 77% of the license revenue that supports the WG&F and wildlife in Wyo comes from nonres pockets. Also, consider all the $ nonres generated in Wyo in from RMEF, Sheep foundation, etc. My favorite nonres contribution that the Task Force is aware of is the revenue generated from nonres supporting small town communities!


View attachment 68462

Meanwhile, in Colorado.....

 

[jims]

Meanwhile in Colo nonres can hunt otc elk every year and around 20 to 35% of limited deer elk and antelope tags. Pretty good deal for diy nonres hunters....I like it! Nonres are welcome in Colo! Come spend your $ and help out the CPW and our small town economies!

 

[Bookhead]

Meanwhile in Colo nonres can hunt otc elk every year and around 20 to 35% of limited deer elk and antelope tags. Pretty good deal for diy nonres hunters....I like it! Nonres are welcome in Colo! Come spend your $ and help out the CPW and our small town economies!

I'd love to come hunt raghorn bulls every year and risk getting shot at to do it. I spent more money hunting in my home state last year then I did in Colorado and I was there for 9 days

 

[BuzzH]

Meanwhile in Colo nonres can hunt otc elk every year and around 20 to 35% of limited deer elk and antelope tags. Pretty good deal for diy nonres hunters....I like it! Nonres are welcome in Colo! Come spend your $ and help out the CPW and our small town economies!

Sounds so awesome there should be no reason to hunt anywhere else but Colorado.

 

[mulecreek]

Sounds so awesome there should be no reason to hunt anywhere else but Colorado.

Decreasing NR Wyo tags should in theory push more NR hunters to CO OTC elk. Changing to 90/10 in Wyo could be a huge boon to CO and all those small towns depending on hunters. You're welcome CO!

 

[wweaver79]

Idaho OTC will be more of a draw than it has been the last couple years also (face it the log in early and get a random number is a draw). CO and ID can raise their prices and still sell more tags, IF it goes 90/10 for elk.
The more I think about it, if this passes it will take me 20 years or longer to draw Wy moose, which is fine. I can pony up the money and go to Canada if really wanted one. But really I have been thinking..... Moving around state to state every three years or so dumping points when I retire seems like a good idea. Not cheating the system legit move around to be a resident.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Idaho OTC will be more of a draw than it has been the last couple years also (face it the log in early and get a random number is a draw). CO and ID can raise their prices and still sell more tags, IF it goes 90/10 for elk.
The more I think about it, if this passes it will take me 20 years or longer to draw Wy moose, which is fine. I can pony up the money and go to Canada if really wanted one. But really I have been thinking..... Moving around state to state every three years or so dumping points when I retire seems like a good idea. Not cheating the system legit move around to be a resident.

Been my thought also, but the way things are going I can see states not letting you transfer NR points to Resident points.

 

[30Hart]

Been my thought also, but the way things are going I can see states not letting you transfer NR points to Resident points.

That will never happen.

 

[LIK2HNT]

That will never happen.

Hope you are right.

 

[jims]

Take a look at the tag quotas in the landowner tag post I started. Once tags area split up there aren't many nonres elk tags available with 90/5/5. In fact many units have 0 random elk tags once tags are split up! DIY/OYO nonres are the real losers if this goes through. There wouldn't be nonres tags available in many units with the 5% allotment to outfitters so I'm certain outfitters are probably figuring out other strategies. If you have the chance submit your comments to the Task Force. Set aside tags for outfitters and landowners are DIY res and nonres DIY hunter's worse nightmare!
https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input

 

[Bookhead]

Take a look at the tag quotas in the landowner tag post I started. Once tags area split up there aren't many nonres elk tags available with 90/5/5. In fact many units have 0 random elk tags once tags are split up! DIY/OYO nonres are the real losers if this goes through. There wouldn't be nonres tags available in many units with the 5% allotment to outfitters so I'm certain outfitters are probably figuring out other strategies. If you have the chance submit your comments to the Task Force. Set aside tags for outfitters and landowners are DIY res and nonres DIY hunter's worse nightmare!
https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input

How many random tags are available in Colorado limited quota areas? That's what I thought thanks for playing

 

[jims]

20 or 35% of limited tags go in the public draw for nonres hunters in Colorado! Colo also offers OTC elk tags that nonres can hunt every year. That's by far the best deal nonres have in the entire Western US!

Wyo currently offers 16% of limited elk tags to nonres. Obviously with 90/10 or 90/5/5 nonres limited tags would be cut to 10 or 5%. It also takes several years just to draw a general nonres elk tag.

 

[BuzzH]

20 or 35% of limited tags go in the public draw for nonres hunters in Colorado! Colo also offers OTC elk tags that nonres can hunt every year. That's by far the best deal nonres have in the entire Western US!

Wyo currently offers 16% of limited elk tags to nonres. Obviously with 90/10 or 90/5/5 nonres limited tags would be cut to 10 or 5%. It also takes several years just to draw a general nonres elk tag.

Yeah, I would just skip Wyoming and head straight to Colorado...a NR hunters paradise!

 

[jims]

At least in Colo we have muley bucks that grow bigger than 3x!

The truly sad part if 90/10 or 90/5/5 passes in Wyo I'm pretty sure the same thing will domino and happen in Colo. If nonres can't draw tags in Wyo they will be forced to hunt OTC tags in Colo. There are only so many elk and Colo can only support so many hunters. There comes a breaking point where nonres will get screwed out of OTC elk in Colo. Then what?

Our hunting heritage as we know it as DIY/OYO hunters is in the midst of drastic change across the Western US! Everyone outside Wyo knows the landowner/outfitter set aside tag deal with the task force is another prime example of this!

The prospect for DIY/OYO hunters in the 2 remaining nonres friendly states don't look good! I really feel for the younger generation! Oh yah, nonres could still likely travel all the way to Wyo to hunt cow elk and doe antelope and deer!

 

[BuzzH]

At least in Colo we have muley bucks that grow bigger than 3x!

The truly sad part if 90/10 or 90/5/5 passes in Wyo I'm pretty sure the same thing will domino and happen in Colo. If nonres can't draw tags in Wyo they will be forced to hunt OTC tags in Colo. There are only so many elk and Colo can only support so many hunters. There comes a breaking point where nonres will get screwed out of OTC elk in Colo. Then what?

Our hunting heritage as we know it as DIY/OYO hunters is in the midst of drastic change across the Western US! Everyone outside Wyo knows the landowner/outfitter set aside tag deal with the task force is another prime example of this!

The prospect for DIY/OYO hunters in the 2 remaining nonres friendly states don't look good! I really feel for the younger generation! Oh yah, nonres could still likely travel all the way to Wyo to hunt cow elk and doe antelope and deer!

Nobody is being "forced" to hunt anywhere.

I don't really care what Colorado decides to do with their wildlife resources, I'm not a Resident of Colorado. That's your worry Sebastian, that's where you're a Resident.

What we decide to allow in regard to outfitter set asides is all that's going to matter.

What you're doing, with your perpetual whinefest is driving Resident hunters in Wyoming to want to cut a deal to get 90-5-5 passed.

You've already blown it driving lots and lots of R's to support 90-10 who in the past may not have wanted it (myself for example).

My mind changed thanks to 2 people, you are one of those, as well as a twerp from Nevada.

Congratulations!....you're doing "great".

 

[jm77]

At least in Colo we have muley bucks that grow bigger than 3x!

Why does anyone want to come to Wyoming for deer?

 

[BuzzH]

I would be more likely to drive to Wyoming for a couple doe pronghorn or a cow elk rather than a 3 point mule deer...

 

[nfh]

Nobody is being "forced" to hunt anywhere.

I don't really care what Colorado decides to do with their wildlife resources, I'm not a Resident of Colorado. That's your worry Sebastian, that's where you're a Resident.

What we decide to allow in regard to outfitter set asides is all that's going to matter.

What you're doing, with your perpetual whinefest is driving Resident hunters in Wyoming to want to cut a deal to get 90-5-5 passed.

You've already blown it driving lots and lots of R's to support 90-10 who in the past may not have wanted it (myself for example).

My mind changed thanks to 2 people, you are one of those, as well as a twerp from Nevada.

Congratulations!....you're doing "great".

I agree with this statement. I did not support 90/10. But after seeing non resident entitlement i now support 90/10.

 

[jims]

I guess I'm the only hunter around that is willing to step up to the plate and say what's going on across the Western US is wrong? Take a look at New Mexico with landowner tags, outfitter set aside tags, etc. Yep it's up to each state to make decisions but at the expense of our good old hunting heritage?

Come on Buzz, I remember how upset you were a few years back when NMex sliced DIY nonres tags in 1/2 with set aside outfitter tags. I also remember post after post of yours on Randy Newberg's OYO site that you were always in support of nonres OYO hunters. What a bunch of crap!

Yep, I am proud to stand up for DIY/OYO nonres hunters across the country that are getting screwed! I personally don't believe I am entitled to anything. I'm getting old and only have so many years left to live. I could care less if I draw 1 or 2 more tags in my lifetime.

What I'm concerned about more than anything is the loss of opportunity facing young nonres hunters across each and every state in the US and the ultimate future of hunting across the Western US. Once youngsters loose interest in hunting....it is gone forever! Yep if youngsters are blessed to grow up in a state like Wyo they are good to go but what about others? I understand completely that Wyo can distribute tags how ever they choose.

I do believe that 90/10 or 90/5/5 would change the face of public hunting privilege's in Wyo and our hunting heritage in Wyoming! When tags are set aside for outfitters with wealthy clients and landowners that invest in Wyo property for the sake of drawing tags...yep it's a sad day! Yep, you bet I will stand up and try to make my word heard!

Buzz, just think back a few years how upset you were about New Mexico! The doors are closing on nonres public hunting opportunity as we know it!

 

[elks96]

At least in Colo we have muley bucks that grow bigger than 3x!

The truly sad part if 90/10 or 90/5/5 passes in Wyo I'm pretty sure the same thing will domino and happen in Colo. If nonres can't draw tags in Wyo they will be forced to hunt OTC tags in Colo. There are only so many elk and Colo can only support so many hunters. There comes a breaking point where nonres will get screwed out of OTC elk in Colo. Then what?

Our hunting heritage as we know it as DIY/OYO hunters is in the midst of drastic change across the Western US! Everyone outside Wyo knows the landowner/outfitter set aside tag deal with the task force is another prime example of this!

The prospect for DIY/OYO hunters in the 2 remaining nonres friendly states don't look good! I really feel for the younger generation! Oh yah, nonres could still likely travel all the way to Wyo to hunt cow elk and doe antelope and deer!

Yeah Colorado is so awesome with deer??? It is a damn joke they killed over 3,000 doe in the NW Corner this last year. They have no good reason why... Sorry but I have killed far more big deer on my 5 WY general tags than I ever did in 20 years worth of limited tag in Colorado... SO????

Its ok though we all know how wonderful Colorado will be in a couple years after they have dumped in a few hundred wolves and then spend a decade without any management. Colorado was once great but now they have nothing...

 

[BuzzH]

I guess I'm the only hunter around that is willing to step up to the plate and say what's going on across the Western US is wrong? Take a look at New Mexico with landowner tags, outfitter set aside tags, etc. Yep it's up to each state to make decisions but at the expense of our good old hunting heritage?

Come on Buzz, I remember how upset you were a few years back when NMex sliced DIY nonres tags in 1/2 with set aside outfitter tags. I also remember post after post of yours on Randy Newberg's OYO site that you were always in support of nonres OYO hunters. What a bunch of crap!

Yep, I am proud to stand up for DIY/OYO nonres hunters across the country that are getting screwed! I personally don't believe I am entitled to anything. I'm getting old and only have so many years left to live. What I'm concerned about more than anything is the loss of opportunity that young nonres across each state in the US have hunting the Western US in future years. Once youngsters loose interest in hunting....it is gone forever! I understand completely that Wyo can distribute tags how ever they choose.

I do believe that 90/10 or 90/5/5 would change the face of public hunting privilege's in Wyo and our hunting heritage in Wyoming! When tags are set aside for outfitters with wealthy clients and landowners that invest in Wyo property for the sake of drawing tags...yep it's a sad day! Yep, you bet I will stand up and try to make my word heard!

Buzz, just think back a few years how upset you were about New Mexico! The doors are closing on nonres public hunting opportunity as we know it!

I wasn't upset with New Mexico, I just quit applying there.

Same as you should do in Wyoming.

 

[jims]

BS!

 

[BuzzH]

BS!

Want my application history for NM?

I don't like what a state does with allocations, I just apply elsewhere.

No big deal.

 

[jm77]

I agree with this statement. I did not support 90/10. But after seeing non resident entitlement i now support 90/10.

You aren't the only person who says this.

 

[Deercy]

Will a simple "I'm sorry " make a difference?? My kids are seriously entitled, without a doubt. I started applying years ago with the plan of a once in a lifetime type hunt. My unit of choice has stayed tantalizingly close but just out of reach for awhile already. I've took the aforementioned entitled youngsters to that unit twice on cow hunts. It's still a hunt I anticipate to take sometime. I do not enjoy outfitted hunts and the clock is ticking on my ability to get out. (Broke my back a few years ago and it ain't getting any better) I love hunting regardless of area and there is so much opportunity across the west that I will never touch it with my abilities.

 

[rocky2track]

So what's the scoop on the 90-10 5 yr transition amendment with the M,S,G,B & GB tags? Give outfitters schedules time to adjust?

 

[jm77]

So what's the scoop on the 90-10 5 yr transition amendment with the M,S,G,B & GB tags? Give outfitters schedules time to adjust?

Legislature being the Legislature

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Hunted Colorado deer this year, not worth the hype to me at least, personally I’m leaning towards getting out of all the point games and just concentrate on Wyoming, maybe a whitetail or Turkey hunt somewhere, but I bailed on Utah, quite a few points but ohh well, Colorado done with, all I got left is Arizona elk that I’ll try and get out of the way ASAP!! Now if all the out of staters that complain about change in Wyoming would drop out that would help my cause of just sticking to Wyoming as a resident, I’d be satisfied for sure ?

 

[Teepee]

So what's the scoop on the 90-10 5 yr transition amendment with the M,S,G,B & GB tags? Give outfitters schedules time to adjust?

House Bill 43 passed the House and is now in the Senate.

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2022/HB0043

Beginning July 1, 2027, the commission shall reserve ninety percent (90%) of the bighorn sheep, wild bison, moose, mountain goat and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters and the remaining ten percent (10%) of the bighorn sheep, wild bison, moose, mountain goat and grizzly bear licenses shall be reserved for nonresident hunters. The commission shall determine the allocation of resident and nonresident mountain lion harvest.

 

[LIK2HNT]

House Bill 43 passed the House and is now in the Senate.

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2022/HB0043

Beginning July 1, 2027, the commission shall reserve ninety percent (90%) of the bighorn sheep, wild bison, moose, mountain goat and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters and the remaining ten percent (10%) of the bighorn sheep, wild bison, moose, mountain goat and grizzly bear licenses shall be reserved for nonresident hunters. The commission shall determine the allocation of resident and nonresident mountain lion harvest.

Thanks for the updates.

 

[nfh]

I thought it was going to be earlier than 2027. 2027 is fine with me cause i can apply for sheep again. The wife said if i apply again well its being selfish. Lol

 

[WapitiBob]

5 year wait before it takes effect

 

[30Hart]

5 year wait before it takes effect

That's great news, plenty of time to get rid of my sheep points.

 

[jims]

It will be interesting to see how many nonres drop out of buying pref pts that supports the WG&F in the coming years.

 

[nripepi]

I thought it was going to be earlier than 2027. 2027 is fine with me cause i can apply for sheep again. The wife said if i apply again well its being selfish. Lol

Did you read the link?

 

[nfh]

Did you read the link?

I did. Also saw july 1 2022. Then 2027 for 90/10. Lot of info to absorb here

 

[Savage110]

Want my application history for NM?

I don't like what a state does with allocations, I just apply elsewhere.

No big deal.

Buzz, did you get cited for poaching in Wyoming or NM? Can someone finally tell the story or post the link?

 

[nripepi]

I did. Also saw july 1 2022. Then 2027 for 90/10. Lot of info to absorb here

It sounds like they will step down 2% per year over 5 years if this gets through the senate as is. I think that is what I suggested was their only option if they didn't want some sort of lawsuit to deal with and wasting money on lawyers....

 

[Bookhead]

^ correct the way I read it^

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, did you get cited for poaching in Wyoming or NM? Can someone finally tell the story or post the link?

Been hunting and fishing since I was a kid, had my first big-game tags in 1979, have had no citations of any kind for either. Have had a speeding ticket or two. Post your links or tell your story...can't wait.

You smoking pot or crack?

As to the bill, going to likely be amended back to full 90-10 by 2023 in the senate side TRW.

 

[wweaver79]

At $150 a point the revenue loss is going to be very expensive for WY. Not sure what that revenue number will be but pretty big. Can blame them for doing what other states have now at 10 percent. You would be dumb to start building non resident big 3 points now anyway, If this passes dumb is not the word. I love hunting Wyoming and have had a couple great hunts there and will have few more. Wy is also on my short list of possible retirement states as well

 

[jims]

Wyo pref pts for the big 5 and other species will become meaningless for nonres in years to come with 90/10 or 90/5/5. How many nonres are going to drop out of Wyo....especially if they cut nonres tags in 1/2.

How many new nonres are going to begin applying for the Big 5 in Wyo in years to come....close to 0! With the present system the number of nonres applying for pref pt increases every year. Instead of increasing the WG&F budget there will be even further revenue loss.

Where is the revenue loss to the WG&F going to come from? What happens if big game populations drop and there are few doe, cow, and general tags to sell high dollar nonres tags? Seems like a bit of a gamble? Pref pt $ is currently dependable and easy money for the WG&F. This will be lost with 90/10!

My guess is that Wyo res will likely end up picking up the tab for lost pref pt revenue when you look long term. All this nonsense just for a handful of additional res tags. Seems pretty stupid and short-sighted to me?

Good luck Wyo res! I hope you enjoy paying more $ in the near future. Wyo nonres have provided 77% of the limited license and pref pt revenue funding for the WG&F for long enough....now it will be up to Wyo res to make up for the losses!

 

[Teepee]

At $150 a point the revenue loss is going to be very expensive for WY. Not sure what that revenue number will be but pretty big. Can blame them for doing what other states have now at 10 percent. You would be dumb to start building non resident big 3 points now anyway, If this passes dumb is not the word. I love hunting Wyoming and have had a couple great hunts there and will have few more. Wy is also on my short list of possible retirement states as well

Go to bill link above & open fiscal note tab. No discussion of potential loss from hunters dropping out of the system.


license revenue loss:
Source of revenue (decrease):

Decrease in annual nonresident license revenue for the licenses that will be made available to residents at a lower price as a result of the 90/10 split for moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat and wild bison;

Assumptions:

The total anticipated revenue decrease from the shift of moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat and wild bison from nonresident to resident is $198,680 per year.

• 31 moose licenses will shift from nonresident to resident for an anticipated revenue decrease of $56,578.
• 30 bighorn sheep licenses will shift from nonresident to resident for an anticipated revenue decrease of $65,040.
• 9 mountain goat licenses will shift from nonresident to resident for an anticipated revenue decrease of $18,242.
• 11 any wild bison licenses will shift from nonresident to resident for an anticipated revenue decrease of $43,868.
• 6 wild bison cow/calf licenses will shift from nonresident to resident for an anticipated revenue decrease of $14,952.

I still think that they will eventually go to weighted bonus pt for res & non-res to give the appearance of better odds for the lower tier of point holders. And therefore keep more non-res in the system. Just a WAG.

Here's a link to the Laramie County Comm College study on pref pts & bonus points that was completed for the task force.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eS-24guSd05MMw5HfLdLgEbI-YTdmPoL/view

 

[lostinOregon]

When a bill is in the house or senate State agencies are asked for a fiscal on a bill. If it was all on the up and up they would attach a fiscal to the bill showing a decrease of money from NR's. If you don't attach a fiscal, it doesn't go to ways and means where most bills die due to funding issues. I am guessing based upon my experience (which is not in WY) that the F&G did not attach a fiscal, so the bill won't go to ways and means, meaning there will not be a debate on the financial impacts. Buzz is right that once it passes the house it goes to the Senate side where it can be amended in committee, or just die which is unlikely unless the Senate President wants to kill the bill. Not surprised if Buzz or others already know the outcome. Usually whoever is controlling the bill already knows where the bill will be amended, has the approval of the Senate President and how many votes it has on the senate floor. It is all a show of transparency, but the deals are done in the back room and votes are traded on other issues.

Rich

 

[jm77]

I would not count on the amendment to extend 90/10 over 5 years to stick. Plan accordingly, but we should know within the week.

 

[jm77]

I thought it was going to be earlier than 2027. 2027 is fine with me cause i can apply for sheep again. The wife said if i apply again well its being selfish. Lol

If/when the law takes place, those inside the waiting period will be life-timed out. At least that was what was decided at the Task Force Level and I assume will be added to regulation by the Commission. But who knows?

 

[grosventrehunter]

Wyo pref pts for the big 5 and other species will become meaningless for nonres in years to come with 90/10 or 90/5/5. How many nonres are going to drop out of Wyo....especially if they cut nonres tags in 1/2.

How many new nonres are going to begin applying for the Big 5 in Wyo in years to come....close to 0! With the present system the number of nonres applying for pref pt increases every year. Instead of increasing the WG&F budget there will be even further revenue loss.

Where is the revenue loss to the WG&F going to come from? What happens if big game populations drop and there are few doe, cow, and general tags to sell high dollar nonres tags? Seems like a bit of a gamble? Pref pt $ is currently dependable and easy money for the WG&F. This will be lost with 90/10!

My guess is that Wyo res will likely end up picking up the tab for lost pref pt revenue when you look long term. All this nonsense just for a handful of additional res tags. Seems pretty stupid and short-sighted to me?

Good luck Wyo res! I hope you enjoy paying more $ in the near future. Wyo nonres have provided 77% of the limited license and pref pt revenue funding for the WG&F for long enough....now it will be up to Wyo res to make up for the losses!

Meanwhile, over on the Colorado forum, I can't find any of jims posts demanding more NR sheep, moose, and goat permits. Hypocrite......

 

[nfh]

If/when the law takes place, those inside the waiting period will be life-timed out. At least that was what was decided at the Task Force Level and I assume will be added to regulation by the Commission. But who knows?

When we had the local meeting thats how we voted on it. So anyone in the 5 year waiting period and future people that draw are done.

I contacted a task force member to get another local meeting here. So far it's crickets. I just might have to bug him again

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Getting closer to reality !

 

[SS!]

WHOA!!!

 

[Bookhead]

Guess it's going into effect allot sooner then 2027 then

 

[Savage110]

Will a simple "I'm sorry " make a difference?? My kids are seriously entitled, without a doubt. I started applying years ago with the plan of a once in a lifetime type hunt. My unit of choice has stayed tantalizingly close but just out of reach for awhile already. I've took the aforementioned entitled youngsters to that unit twice on cow hunts. It's still a hunt I anticipate to take sometime. I do not enjoy outfitted hunts and the clock is ticking on my ability to get out. (Broke my back a few years ago and it ain't getting any better) I love hunting regardless of area and there is so much opportunity across the west that I will never touch it with my abilities.

BuzzH asks for a handwritten apology, which also needs to be notarized if he is even to consider it. Only then will he and Rob Shaul take it under consideration.

 

[Bookhead]

So what's the latest with this? Doesn't look they have updated the draft of the bill on the state website haven't heard anything

 

[jm77]

So what's the latest with this? Doesn't look they have updated the draft of the bill on the state website haven't heard anything

Passed first reading in the Senate with amendment on lifetime status for those on the 5 year restriction..

 

[Bookhead]

Did

Passed first reading in the Senate with amendment on lifetime status for those on the 5 year restriction..

Did they do away with Sommers ammendment?

 

[Bookhead]

The ammendment making it take 5 years to get to 90/10 is the one I'm curious about

 

[junior]

Yes, it's deleted in the senate amendment!

 

[jm77]

Yes, it's deleted in the senate amendment!

Those amendments will have to go to a conference committee after the bill passes the Senate.

 

[junior]

Those amendments will have to go to a conference committee after the bill passes the Senate.

That was some sneaky sideways work Sommers pulled!
Although he may of actually shot himself in the foot helping the bill through the house.

 

[jm77]

That was some sneaky sideways work Sommers pulled!
Although he may of actually shot himself in the foot helping the bill through the house.

Sommers voted for the bill as a Task Force member and then as a legislator went against the intentions of the group. This shows how flawed this task force is. What is really crazy, is Sommers is doing this for one moose outfitter in his district.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

Not sure why they chose to screw those on there waiting period. I'm in my last year of my waiting period for moose. I played the game of drawing a lesser unit, so I could draw more than once in my lifetime. Now the rules change after the fact and I'm out of the moose game in Wyoming. If I had just drawn my tag one year sooner. Its Wyoming though, so if it will screw me over they will do it.

 

[mulecreek]

Not sure why they chose to screw those on there waiting period. I'm in my last year of my waiting period for moose. I played the game of drawing a lesser unit, so I could draw more than once in my lifetime. Now the rules change after the fact and I'm out of the moose game in Wyoming. If I had just drawn my tag one year sooner. Its Wyoming though, so if it will screw me over they will do it.

You drew a moose tag in the random draw. The "poor me" BS wears thin.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

Your right, I guess my plan didn't work out.

If they truly want to make the bill retroactive they would go a step further and include anyone that has drawn in their lifetime. That would make it fair. I wonder how many would be crying about that.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

I do like the 90/10 part of this bill. I donate $600 a year to Utah in app fees and have draw 0 tags in the last 8 years. This is with 5 different applicants putting in this year. $98 hunting/Fishing license just to be able to apply. $33 for each kid.

 

[marburg]

It will be interesting to see how many nonres drop out of buying pref pts that supports the WG&F in the coming years.

If you weren't in the top tier for points on m,s,g, you are silly if you didn't drop a few years back when they raised the point fees......just lighting money on fire.

 

[WapitiBob]

Nobody in their right mind is paying $98/year in license fees to apply in Utah

 

[RoadlessHunter]

Nobody in their right mind is paying $98/year in license fees to apply in Utah

You get your fishing/hunting for $98. You can pay $72 and just get hunting license only. But hunt license is required to apply.

 

[LivingTheDream]

If you weren't in the top tier for points on m,s,g, you are silly if you didn't drop a few years back when they raised the point fees......just lighting money on fire.

Sorta, if they go to bonus points it might work out. Expensive for a point, but if you want to hunt sheep or moose, you have to pay to play.

 

[30Hart]

Your right, I guess my plan didn't work out.

If they truly want to make the bill retroactive they would go a step further and include anyone that has drawn in their lifetime. That would make it fair. I wonder how many would be crying about that.

I'd be willing to give up my chance at another wyoming moose..seems fair to me. Already have 2 shiras...both record book bulls. Problem if they did that they'd have to refund points and that they'll never do.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

I'd be willing to give up my chance at another wyoming moose..seems fair to me. Already have 2 shiras...both record book bulls. Problem if they did that they'd have to refund points and that they'll never do.

That kind of hits at my point. It should start with anyone that draws in 2022. I bet those who drew a cow moose and are on their waiting period may be just a little uptight about this bill.

But I do feel bad for the kids that are starting at 0 points. It will take them a lifetime plus a little to get to a guaranteed tag. Unless they hit the random like I did or go for a lesser unit.

 

[BuzzH]

Not sure why they chose to screw those on there waiting period. I'm in my last year of my waiting period for moose. I played the game of drawing a lesser unit, so I could draw more than once in my lifetime. Now the rules change after the fact and I'm out of the moose game in Wyoming. If I had just drawn my tag one year sooner. Its Wyoming though, so if it will screw me over they will do it.

First off quit your selfish sniveling...as others have said you drew a tag, shot a good bull...be happy for the opportunity that many will never get.

The reason they went for those in the waiting period is because by doing so nobody with points would have anything taken away. If you cared so much you should have traveled your happy ass over to the task force meetings in Casper...like a bunch of guys on this thread did. That way you wouldn't be sounding like a ? and know why this happened the way it did.

I testified in favor of those on the waiting period fall under the once in a lifetime. I said it was totally fair and it would mean I would be done with sheep in Wyoming. I had a spectacular hunt, 26 days worth that ended in 9.5 year old ram. I hunted with a couple friends and one in particular that went way above and beyond to help me a ton. I'll never forget that hunt and I'm actually happy that I can't apply again. More people deserve to experience that kind of hunt.

Finally, you should consider yourself lucky to draw at all. It's looking more and more like preference points are going to convert to bonus points. Essentially a slightly weighted random draw that will never assure you a tag.

You come off as a very selfish person...and most likely that's exactly what you are. And yes, I'd say the same to your face. Facts are what they are.

 

[Sierra]

You get your fishing/hunting for $98. You can pay $72 and just get hunting license only. But hunt license is required to apply.

You only have to buy the license every other year, so you have been over paying.

 

[BuzzH]

That kind of hits at my point. It should start with anyone that draws in 2022. I bet those who drew a cow moose and are on their waiting period may be just a little uptight about this bill.

But I do feel bad for the kids that are starting at 0 points. It will take them a lifetime plus a little to get to a guaranteed tag. Unless they hit the random like I did or go for a lesser unit.

There will be no guaranteed tags under bonus points.

People that applied for cows CHOSE to, for the record you didn't have to apply for a moose at all, or in unit 24 that actually has decent random odds.

You should of applied in the units with the best bulls.

Nobody forced you to apply where you did.

 

[BuzzH]

If you weren't in the top tier for points on m,s,g, you are silly if you didn't drop a few years back when they raised the point fees......just lighting money on fire.

In particular if you paid for goat points...how many goat points did you drop by the way?

 

[RoadlessHunter]

First off quit your selfish sniveling...as others have said you drew a tag, shot a good bull...be happy for the opportunity that many will never get.

The reason they went for those in the waiting period is because by doing so nobody with points would have anything taken away. If you cared so much you should have traveled your happy ass over to the task force meetings in Casper...like a bunch of guys on this thread did. That way you wouldn't be sounding like a ? and know why this happened the way it did.

I testified in favor of those on the waiting period fall under the once in a lifetime. I said it was totally fair and it would mean I would be done with sheep in Wyoming. I had a spectacular hunt, 26 days worth that ended in 9.5 year old ram. I hunted with a couple friends and one in particular that went way above and beyond to help me a ton. I'll never forget that hunt and I'm actually happy that I can't apply again. More people deserve to experience that kind of hunt.

Finally, you should consider yourself lucky to draw at all. It's looking more and more like preference points are going to convert to bonus points. Essentially a slightly weighted random draw that will never assure you a tag.

You come off as a very selfish person...and most likely that's exactly what you are. And yes, I'd say the same to your face. Facts are what they are.

You make me laugh. A second sheep tag will almost be impossible, but moose not impossible. This is Buzz and I will give up my impossible chance for a second sheep tag to take one for the team lol. Working groups and politicians will do what they want. That's what I've learned in my short stay here in Wyoming. I will just keep building points for my Utah moose and move there after I retire.

I still have a chance that one of the 4 boys will draw before they leave home for most likely a different state. My wife can still draw, so were not all the way out of chances.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

Buzz I have a couple questions?

Have you drawn moose in Wyoming?

And if yes are you going to stop applying to let everyone else have a chance now its once in a lifetime?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz I have a couple questions?

Have you drawn moose in Wyoming?

And if yes are you going to stop applying to let everyone else have a chance now its once in a lifetime?

Yes I drew moose and killed a bull I'm North piney creek where you shot yours.

Yes I'll apply again but if I was under the waiting period I wouldn't be crying about it like you are. I would have had no trouble if they made it retroactive for the past 30 years. The agreement they came to was supported by every task force member.

The rule change allows me to apply again so I will. Bonus point system will all but assure I won't draw again...even under preference I'd likely be done.

Your lack of planning and crying about not being able to apply again is childish.

Carry on and thanks for crying...which is all you've done in regard to this.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

Yes I drew moose and killed a bull I'm North piney creek where you shot yours.

Yes I'll apply again but if I was under the waiting period I wouldn't be crying about it like you are. I would have had no trouble if they made it retroactive for the past 30 years. The agreement they came to was supported by every task force member.

The rule change allows me to apply again so I will. Bonus point system will all but assure I won't draw again...even under preference I'd likely be done.

Your lack of planning and crying about not being able to apply again is childish.

Carry on and thanks for crying...which is all you've done in regard to this.

Using your logic you would be selfish if you continue to apply for moose now its once in a lifetime and you have drawn a tag already.

I had good planning and put in for a lesser unit and drew. The odds were 1 in 50 back then. The chance of drawing again would be slim, but that's why I chose unit 24. I'm not too worried since I can still get otc general deer and elk every year.?

Believe it or not I'm still trying to draw a first choice area 93 antelope tag. I'm 0 - 7 in the buck antelope draws since moving to Wyoming.

 

[Bookhead]

Using your logic you would be selfish if you continue to apply for moose now its once in a lifetime and you have drawn a tag already.

I had good planning and put in for a lesser unit and drew. The odds were 1 in 50 back then. The chance of drawing again would be slim, but that's why I chose unit 24. I'm not too worried since I can still get otc general deer and elk every year.?

Believe it or not I'm still trying to draw a first chose area 93 antelope tag. I'm 0 - 7 in the buck antelope draws since moving to Wyoming.

What's your point. I haven't drawn an elk tag in going on 9 years I've only drawn one moderately hard to draw antelope tag ever and one hard to draw deer tag and I've been applying for 21 years for big game I have no sympathy for you it's part of the game it's the luck of the draw

 

[RoadlessHunter]

What's your point. I haven't drawn an elk tag in going on 9 years I've only drawn one moderately hard to draw antelope tag ever and one hard to draw deer tag and I've been applying for 21 years for big game I have no sympathy for you it's part of the game it's the luck of the draw

My point is I drew the 1 in 50 moose before I've drawn the 1 in 3 antelope tag. 0 - 7. With the average odds being 1 in 3 +/- every year. Luck of the draw is more valuable than anything. I drew a Utah hunt expo tag in 2012. Odds 1 in 750 for that tag.