OH YA!!! TAKE THE MUZZ SCOPES!!!

slamdunk said:
The point of my comment is that for travishunter to complain that the Division isn't doing anything or "enough" is simply being naive to facts.
This state has never put more money and resources into conservation projects and studies as it is doing today.
Instead of being armchair biologists, it's very easy and inviting to get involved and see what's really going on.

It gets really old trying to get people to understand that technology restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with rebuilding our herds, it's about creating opportunity by lowering success rates.

Get involved and learn versus assuming and finger pointing.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY! Like I mentioned earlier, it's either put some restrictions, or cut tags to where the quota needs to be for the current success rate. Allowing "long range" muzzleloaders (boy that SHOULD be an oxymoron) raises the success rate of the hunt. Raising the success rate takes more from their quota of animals allowed. So, it's either lower the tags (basically cutting in half), or imposing some restrictions. I don't get what is so hard for a lot of people to understand. It has nothing to do with taking away our rights.
 
travishunter3006 said:
If Utah DWR did their job then we’d have plenty of animals to shoot with any weapon during any season. The only reason we restrict this or that is because of the scarcity of animals, the ever failing policies/objectives of the DWR and in the end we cannibalise ourselves as hunters.
Click to expand...
This deserves to be repeated, again and again. In fact, it deserves to be copied and pasted ever time one of these “limit” the weapons technology discussions get started and inserted multiple times between every comment.

These hunter/sportsman conflicts and blaming each other for the lack of mule deer, based on the weapons each choose is a reaction based frustration and a misguided response to a decades old, dysfunctional and faulty mule deer management philosophy……… that being the misunderstood concept of “maximum recreational opportunity”.

Maximum opportunity without a specific ceiling on an annual hard set individual mule deer herd removal number, based on ever changing environmental, social, and economical conditions has been and will continue to be a unmitigated disaster.

Arguments about which weapons sportsmen use to kill mule deer sucks the energy and defects the focus away from the ultimate solution to the declining numbers of mule deer.

We should give credit and thank travishunter3006 for his insightful understanding of the underlying reason for these internal sportsmen conflicts.

Point the energy at the enemy not at your best friend.

Just saying………..
 
2lumpy said:
This deserves to be repeated, again and again. In fact, it deserves to be copied and pasted ever time one of these “limit” the weapons technology discussions get started and inserted multiple times between every comment.

These hunter/sportsman conflicts and blaming each other for the lack of mule deer, based on the weapons each choose is a reaction based frustration and a misguided response to a decades old, dysfunctional and faulty mule deer management philosophy……… that being the misunderstood concept of “maximum recreational opportunity”.

Maximum opportunity without a specific ceiling on an annual hard set individual mule deer herd removal number, based on ever changing environmental, social, and economical conditions has been and will continue to be a unmitigated disaster.

Arguments about which weapons sportsmen use to kill mule deer sucks the energy and defects the focus away from the ultimate solution to the declining numbers of mule deer.

We should give credit and thank travishunter3006 for his insightful understanding of the underlying reason for these internal sportsmen conflicts.

Point the energy at the enemy not at your best friend.

Just saying………..
Click to expand...
I've said it multiple times...the lack of deer problem comes under wildlife management; most 'weapon' restrictions come under people management -- social engineering. This often relates to 'opportunity' so more people get to hunt. It does little to grow more deer.
 
slamdunk said:
The point of my comment is that for travishunter to complain that the Division isn't doing anything or "enough" is simply being naive to facts.
This state has never put more money and resources into conservation projects and studies as it is doing today.
Instead of being armchair biologists, it's very easy and inviting to get involved and see what's really going on.

It gets really old trying to get people to understand that technology restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with rebuilding our herds, it's about creating opportunity by lowering success rates.

Get involved and learn versus assuming and finger pointing.
Click to expand...

Then say that was the point to your comment instead of a Beavis and Butthead one-liner.

I'm starting to wonder if you even understand the intent to wildlife management because it's not about whether or not you get an opportunity.

Plenty has been said about technology being too influential in the taking of top gene contributors. That was a premise to the argument on limiting trail cams, giving a top gene contributor a chance to not be patterned up to the time of the trigger pull.

If it was all about opportunity, there would be zero rifle hunts in the middle of Sept and more in the late fall and winter.
 
So you want to limit the scope on a ML or even get rid of them.
But the it ok for rifle has a long range scope it you want to limit things I guess you go back a old 30-30 if it makes you happy
Now who wants to take pistol hunting of the books.
 
So blue?

You're Giving up your F-250?

Bluehair said:
I think we should re-frame the debate in the positive- talk about what’s legal instead of what’s illegal.

If you built it in your garage, it should be legal. Just like Aldo did with his scopes between writing all those books. American ingenuity and all that.??

In the meantime, outlaw anything with an on-off switch or battery.:oops:✌️?
Click to expand...
 
Read one post that said a Scope Muzzy had to good of success rate.
I guess those new long ranges scope on rifles didn't help LOL
 
I’m not much of a tech guy but technology has made everybody’s life much easier. Technology is here to stay and ever so evolving. How we incorporate it into our hunting standards is the question I believe. Some want it some don’t, some don’t mind some restrictions as long as everybody has some skin in the game. Many on here have made valid points pertaining to their weapon of choice. What’s the answer? Nobody knows for sure but it’s like everything else, our elected officials will have the last say in the matter. Vote and know who you are voting for and what their stance is on those issues important to you.
 
roadrunner said:
Then say that was the point to your comment instead of a Beavis and Butthead one-liner.

I'm starting to wonder if you even understand the intent to wildlife management because it's not about whether or not you get an opportunity.

Plenty has been said about technology being too influential in the taking of top gene contributors. That was a premise to the argument on limiting trail cams, giving a top gene contributor a chance to not be patterned up to the time of the trigger pull.

If it was all about opportunity, there would be zero rifle hunts in the middle of Sept and more in the late fall and winter.
Click to expand...
This isn't about managing wildlife, it's about managing opportunities!!

Limiting success adds to more tags issued....??‍♂️
 
Gator said:
Read one post that said a Scope Muzzy had to good of success rate.
I guess those new long ranges scope on rifles didn't help LOL
Click to expand...
There is absolutely zero data gathered showing scoped success.

When I receive my call asking about my hunts, they don't ask if I used a scope on my muzzy and how many yards.

You and others are saying turrets are killing more deer, show me that data?

It's common sense, data isn't needed.
 
slamdunk said:
The point of my comment is that for travishunter to complain that the Division isn't doing anything or "enough" is simply being naive to facts.
This state has never put more money and resources into conservation projects and studies as it is doing today.
Instead of being armchair biologists, it's very easy and inviting to get involved and see what's really going on.

It gets really old trying to get people to understand that technology restrictions have absolutely nothing to do with rebuilding our herds, it's about creating opportunity by lowering success rates.

Get involved and learn versus assuming and finger pointing.
Click to expand...
How do you know what I do and don’t do? Do you know who I am, where I’m from and what I do?

You are naive to “facts”. “Facts” to you are things that you want to believe. The facts I follow are these… less deer, increased costs, less tag availability, point creep, less land, more auction tags, more special interest groups taking and never giving. Those are the facts. The fact that your attention is being hyper focused on what’s inside my gun safe or mounted to my gun is starting to get weird.

Here is a real question for you and all of your little internet warriors and heroes…

How many of you have drawn an any legal weapon tag and chased those elusive deer with traditional stick and string in October? Your arguments fall on deaf ears until you put your money where your mouth is. This site has turned into an echo chamber of idiots who have supported failed policies and even put out the bureaucratic red tape themselves all the while animal numbers have decreased along side opportunity. And you’ve don’t this for years.

Again, I don’t expect any of you to agree with this because these are facts. Look up the numbers boys. You won’t but that is a you problem. I’m excited to see what snide remarks I get from the same 5 of you obsessed with replying to my comments like the gamma males you are. (That’s a term you need to look up and accept)
 
travishunter3006 said:
How do you know what I do and don’t do? Do you know who I am, where I’m from and what I do?

You are naive to “facts”. “Facts” to you are things that you want to believe. The facts I follow are these… less deer, increased costs, less tag availability, point creep, less land, more auction tags, more special interest groups taking and never giving. Those are the facts. The fact that your attention is being hyper focused on what’s inside my gun safe or mounted to my gun is starting to get weird.

Here is a real question for you and all of your little internet warriors and heroes…

How many of you have drawn an any legal weapon tag and chased those elusive deer with traditional stick and string in October? Your arguments fall on deaf ears until you put your money where your mouth is. This site has turned into an echo chamber of idiots who have supported failed policies and even put out the bureaucratic red tape themselves all the while animal numbers have decreased along side opportunity. And you’ve don’t this for years.

Again, I don’t expect any of you to agree with this because these are facts. Look up the numbers boys. You won’t but that is a you problem. I’m excited to see what snide remarks I get from the same 5 of you obsessed with replying to my comments like the gamma males you are. (That’s a term you need to look up and accept)
Click to expand...
I'm not about to compare equipment with you, but I will tell you I have multiple rifles and optics fully capable of 1000yd kills, a small fortune in fact.
I also have and shoot what we are calling a "long range muzzleloader" including a turret scope on top of it.

Why do I have these things?
Because the laws have never been there saying I cannot take big game with them, even if I have never utilized their capabilites on game.

We all complain about dwindling herds which leads to losing opportunity because of less game and tag cuts.
Therefore we stretch our advantage because we may only get one chance at our target.
This is EXACTLY how and why hunting gadgetry is exploding!

Why?
Because we have allowed it.

Here's a question.
How many people from Utah apply to states with muzzleloader restrictions like no scopes or even no inlines?
 
Still waiting for someone to explain why there needs to be a separate season for a muzzle loader that performs the same as a rifle? I say just open it up for modern rifle during muzzy season that way you guys can keep your scopes and be happy
 
JPickett said:
Still waiting for someone to explain why there needs to be a separate season for a muzzle loader that performs the same as a rifle? I say just open it up for modern rifle during muzzy season that way you guys can keep your scopes and be happy
Click to expand...
Maybe someone should gather a little MM data and make a poll post on muzzleloader success including yardage of kills and type of optics used.
Would they be truthful?

I'll start.
Knight disc inline w/Vortex 4x12 tactical.

6 bucks, furthest kill (2nd shot after it got back up after being hit much closer) approximately 150 yards, I didn't have time to range it.
Pahvant 5x5 27" wide two cheaters opening morning 2015.
5 others could have been killed with a Hawkins.
 
JPickett said:
Still waiting for someone to explain why there needs to be a separate season for a muzzle loader that performs the same as a rifle? I say just open it up for modern rifle during muzzy season that way you guys can keep your scopes and be happy
Click to expand...
Doesn't need another season if they are split. Lump the long range muzzleloaders with rifles and move on..... I only suggested a separate traditional muzzleloader hunt in certain unit or areas.
 
mossback50cal said:
Doesn't need another season if they are split. Lump the long range muzzleloaders with rifles and move on..... I only suggested a separate traditional muzzleloader hunt in certain unit or areas.
Click to expand...
No I get it. Just trying to bring everyone to why there was a separate season to begin with. It’s a different weapon, a more primitive weapon, so it had its own season.

Guys are getting so wrapped up with there “rights” being taken away ( that’s a silly premise to begin with but a separate topic) the point of the season and it’s dates seem to be lost. The whole reason was separation and opportunity based on a more difficult weapon to be successful with.

Just wanting to hear some of these guys that are hell bent on having a modern weapon in that season explain the point of even having the season separated from modern.that could get us away from the “ fair” topic but I doubt it’s defensible
 
JPickett said:
No I get it. Just trying to bring everyone to why there was a separate season to begin with. It’s a different weapon, a more primitive weapon, so it had its own season.

Guys are getting so wrapped up with there “rights” being taken away ( that’s a silly premise to begin with but a separate topic) the point of the season and it’s dates seem to be lost. The whole reason was separation and opportunity based on a more difficult weapon to be successful with.

Just wanting to hear some of these guys that are hell bent on having a modern weapon in that season explain the point of even having the season separated from modern.that could get us away from the “ fair” topic but I doubt it’s defensible
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. And the thing people aren't thinking about, they aren't saying you can't have a scope on your muzzleloader the other 300+ days of the year.... just can't hunt with it.... To be honest, if they did away with them, or limited them to 4x, I might start putting in for muzzleloader again. It was fun back in the day when you couldn't shoot a mile with them.
 
elkassassin said:
I'll Let You Keep Your LEZBARU!

But The F-250 is Gone!

The New F-250 Isn't Fair anymore!

EDIT:

But It'll Be OK to Still Let Guys Run DURAMAX & CUMMINS!
Click to expand...
My diesel made me feel like a manly man until I bought the stuff for an oil change yesterday. I cried like a subaru driving nancy boy.:oops: JFP!!!
 
its funny. ask the simple question of please explain why muzzle loaders should have their own season and it sure got quite. hard to defend making the weapon modern and still giving it preferential treatment with a dedicated season outside of modern. guess i'll wait to be enlightened
 
JPickett said:
its funny. ask the simple question of please explain why muzzle loaders should have their own season and it sure got quite. hard to defend making the weapon modern and still giving it preferential treatment with a dedicated season outside of modern. guess i'll wait to be enlightened
Click to expand...
That’s why I’m curious what season the Landowner Deer tag holders are choosing.
I’m guessing most of them are choosing the Muzzy season!
 
mossback50cal said:
EXACTLY! Like I mentioned earlier, it's either put some restrictions, or cut tags to where the quota needs to be for the current success rate. Allowing "long range" muzzleloaders (boy that SHOULD be an oxymoron) raises the success rate of the hunt. Raising the success rate takes more from their quota of animals allowed. So, it's either lower the tags (basically cutting in half), or imposing some restrictions. I don't get what is so hard for a lot of people to understand. It has nothing to do with taking away our rights.
Click to expand...

You keep saying this, but have you looked up the data in Utah? I only ask that because I have, and what you wrote above is not factually correct.

What I found when I looked it up and tabulated it for every unit in the state surprised me too, as I assumed what you wrote above would be true, but it just isn't true. Allowing magnified variable scopes on muzzleloaders in Utah simply has not increased success rates across the state.

So if it won't help the herd, and it won't even create more opportunity...then why are we doing it again?

I don't even muzzy hunt, but I'm not going to stand for restrictions on hunters that simply will do NOTHING but restrict hunters and offer us zero benefit in return.
 
Remember back when all the muzzleloader hunters shot a Hawkin style rifle because thats all we had at the time?
And it was far superior to an original flintlock?

Then came along inlines.
It took a few years, but they took off like wildfire.
Look how far even those have come from the first generation inlines.

How many of the front loader people still use a Hawkin style today?
I'm sure there are a few that do....maybe what, 5%?

Then we brought on all the components to improve inlines even more.
Sabots, pelletized fancy powders, high BC projectiles, etc, etc.
They shot so well their capabilities were minimized by a 1x scope, so we allowed variable power to help reap all the benefits of the explosion of technology advances.

Can you see where this is going?
No you can't see where it's going, because it will never stop unless we stop it.

What will a muzzleloader be in just 5 more years if we don't slow the pace?
And 10?

Perhaps success rates haven't significantly increased on paper to measure their impact with variable scopes yet, but to think they haven't improved since the transition from traditional to inline has absolutely got to be a good spike.

The point of curbing the technology growth isn't about what may or may not be measured today, it's about the impacts down the road when there is only 5% running an old antique 1st generation inline and feeling nostalgic about doing so.
 
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JPickett said:
its funny. ask the simple question of please explain why muzzle loaders should have their own season and it sure got quite. hard to defend making the weapon modern and still giving it preferential treatment with a dedicated season outside of modern. guess i'll wait to be enlightened
Click to expand...
You’re right. From a functional perspective, it’s nothing more than an early rifle season. Fortunately it’s still sorta old school here.

Isn’t the real problem that scoped muzzleloaders come with a tech support team of 8 dudes with laptops and rangefinders, sxs’s, boom boxes, and flat brims?

There, I said it.?
 
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Bluehair said:
You’re right. From a functional perspective, it’s nothing more than an early rifle season. Fortunately it’s still sorta old school here.

Isn’t the real problem that scoped muzzleloaders come with a tech support team of 8 dudes with laptops and rangefinders, sxs’s, boom boxes, and flat brims?

There, I said it.?
Click to expand...
Finally some honesty on this thread. So let’s here the support now for just opening up the season to rifles as well so they can keep their scopes
 
Vanilla said:
You keep saying this, but have you looked up the data in Utah? I only ask that because I have, and what you wrote above is not factually correct.

What I found when I looked it up and tabulated it for every unit in the state surprised me too, as I assumed what you wrote above would be true, but it just isn't true. Allowing magnified variable scopes on muzzleloaders in Utah simply has not increased success rates across the state.

So if it won't help the herd, and it won't even create more opportunity...then why are we doing it again?

I don't even muzzy hunt, but I'm not going to stand for restrictions on hunters that simply will do NOTHING but restrict hunters and offer us zero benefit in return.
Click to expand...
Im not speaking for Utah, as I do not live in Utah. I live in New Mexico, where they are considering the ban also. And yes, muzzleloader success rates have more than doubled where I am from. From 2002-2005, they averaged 22% success, and the deer population was at an all time high. Now, from 2018-2021, they average 45% success rate, with a lower population. Why you might ask? Easier to take an animal when you find it. Simple answer. Tags have been cut for the muzzleloader hunt several times recently, and are in line for another cut. Every unit, minus one or two is following the same pattern. Again, I do not speak for Utah, only what I have experience in.
 
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mossback50cal said:
Im not speaking for Utah, as I do not live in Utah. I live in New Mexico, where they are considering the ban also. And yes, muzzleloader success rates have more than doubled where I am from. From 2002-2005, they averaged 22% success, and the deer population was at an all time high. Now, from 2018-2021, they average 45% success rate, with a lower population. Why you might ask? Easier to take an animal when you find it. Simple answer. Tags have been cut for the muzzleloader hunt several times recently, and are in line for another cut. Every unit, minus one or two is following the same pattern. Again, I do not speak for Utah, only what I have experience in.
Click to expand...
Deer population was at an all time high from 2002-2005? Can you please cite your source on this statement.
 
Bigfoot 1 said:
Deer population was at an all time high from 2002-2005? Can you please cite your source on this statement.
Click to expand...
For the area that I hunt. Not statewide. Again, am speaking on things from my experience, and the population estimates at that time, for the unit I hunted were double what they are now.
 
mossback50cal said:
Im not speaking for Utah, as I do not live in Utah.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. I only bring up Utah because the OP is from Utah and is talking about the technology committee and stuff being discussed in Utah. And based upon what I now know (no longer assume), I’d really encourage anyone claiming that removing scopes from muzzleloaders will decrease success rates so they can increase tags to go and look at the data.

That assumption that I made right along side you simply is not true. I cannot speak for any other state.
 
With 6 months of hunting you have to have several Muzzle loader seasons to take up that time slot and to keep pressure on the animals
 
elkassassin said:
Until HELL-RIGHT is Recognized You're Still PISSIN in the Wind!
Click to expand...

There is actually very little (closer to nothing) in your HELL-RIGHT that will make one bit of difference to the deer. You’re proposing just enhanced practices that the Wildlife Board is doing and they are already failing to help our deer herds. You are quadrupling down on already known failed policies.

Until you quit managing hunters expecting to fix the deer herd you’re still pizzin in the wind! Quit trying to fix the herd by managing hunters, or else you’ll continue to get the results managing hunters have given us to this point.
 
Vanilla said:
There is actually very little (closer to nothing) in your HELL-RIGHT that will make one bit of difference to the deer. You’re proposing just enhanced practices that the Wildlife Board is doing and they are already failing to help our deer herds. You are quadrupling down on already known failed policies.

Until you quit managing hunters expecting to fix the deer herd you’re still pizzin in the wind! Quit trying to fix the herd by managing hunters, or else you’ll continue to get the results managing hunters have given us to this point.
Click to expand...
Is managing hunters part of the equation?
 
Hey Niller!

You'd Best Re-Read HELL-RIGHT!

HELL-RIGHT is only a Start!

You Can Add Many Things to it!

I Heard on the Radio This Morning they are cutting Buck Tags & All Kinds of Antler-less Permits!

Do Tell Me Where There Should Be Any Doe Deer Tags in This State?

Ya!

We're Trying to Grow The Deer Herd So We're Still Shootin Does!

Makes alot of Sense Right There Now Doesn't It?

I Can't Remember If I Listed That in HELL-RIGHT Or Not?

But If I Didn't It Should Be on the List!

Go Ahead Niller!

Tell Me I'm Wrong again!



Vanilla said:
There is actually very little (closer to nothing) in your HELL-RIGHT that will make one bit of difference to the deer. You’re proposing just enhanced practices that the Wildlife Board is doing and they are already failing to help our deer herds. You are quadrupling down on already known failed policies.

Until you quit managing hunters expecting to fix the deer herd you’re still pizzin in the wind! Quit trying to fix the herd by managing hunters, or else you’ll continue to get the results managing hunters have given us to this point.
Click to expand...
 
Bigfoot 1 said:
Is managing hunters part of the equation?
Click to expand...

I don’t think what power scope a hunter has on top of his rifle will ever determine the health of the herd. You can definitely manage wildlife through hunting, we do it all the time. But you’ll never manage wildlife by managing hunters.

If after decreasing deer tags 50% on a unit results in continued deer decline on that unit, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that decreasing tags 50% more again is not the answer to your problem. And if one thinks it is the answer, that one really doesn’t have a clue.
 
Vanilla said:
I don’t think what power scope a hunter has on top of his rifle will ever determine the health of the herd. You can definitely manage wildlife through hunting, we do it all the time. But you’ll never manage wildlife by managing hunters.

If after decreasing deer tags 50% on a unit results in continued deer decline on that unit, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that decreasing tags 50% more again is not the answer to your problem. And if one thinks it is the answer, that one really doesn’t have a clue.
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, the idea of saving wildlife, back when Roosevelt took it on, was primarily for sport hunting. Until recent years the objective was to grow a surplus, for one reason, to provide extra big game for hunters to take home. So, “raising” big game wildlife, “required managing the animals” and the removing the “planned surplus” was to be done by sport hunting.

The surplus wasn’t to created as prey to feed predators, it wasn’t created to satisfy no-hunters, it wasn’t created for hiking enhancement, etc., etc, It was created by and for sport hunting. Those were secondary benefits, at best. So….. managing one without the other is simply not possible, under the original intent of the original movement.

The elephant in the room is elkassassin’s concern about the quantity……… who in hell cares about the number of bucks there are out there of trophy quality (or not) if there aren’t any mule deer left, compared to the caring capacity of the unit. If a unit can feed and support 5,000 mule deer and your trending average is 1,000 to 1,500……. we are mismanaging mule deer and mule deer hunters. Period! And that is exactly what we’ve been doing for at the very least, the last 35/40 years. And that is a western States problem and it can be fixed, it needs to be fixed and the only way it will ever be fixed will be by accident because………. Neither sports hunters nor game manages are willing to do what needs to be done……. to grow a surplus!!!!
 
There's Word that after they Take The MUZZ Scopes they wanna Limit Rifles To No More than 2X Power Scopes!

That Oughta Wedge Some Panty's!

Careful What You Wish For!

A Bunch of People/Hunters Thinking that Banning Scopes on SmokePoles Will Make a Big Difference in the Herd!

WRONG!

Not Without the other 49+ Changes!
 
Not so sure about an elk or a moose but a sardine can lids will work on antelope. If you’re talented enough to unroll’em. I showed my Dad……. he was appropriately disgusted……
 
One of my customers went sheep hunting in Kyrgyzstan. He said the locals skinned his sheep with their thumb nails. Said all the local herders had a thumbnail they maintained that looked like it came from a horror movie.
 
Tristate said:
One of my customers went sheep hunting in Kyrgyzstan. He said the locals skinned his sheep with their thumb nails. Said all the local herders had a thumbnail they maintained that looked like it came from a horror movie.
Click to expand...
And you call yourself a taxidermist with your sissy knives :ROFLMAO:

And I call BS on that story.
 
C
Tristate said:
One of my customers went sheep hunting in Kyrgyzstan. He said the locals skinned his sheep with their thumb nails. Said all the local herders had a thumbnail they maintained that looked like it came from a horror movie.
Click to expand...
Careful. A Utahn may run with that and try to get ban on some kind of personal grooming thing.
 
It’s not a question of being a good or bad hunter. Mine was a rhetorical question too. It IS harder to kill an elk at 7 yards than a deer at 900. And I am ok with limiting some tech to lower success so we can have more tags. I have never hunted with a muzzleloader with anything other than open sights. So it’s not a huge deal for me what they do about scopes.
 
txhunter58 said:
It’s not a question of being a good or bad hunter. Mine was a rhetorical question too. It IS harder to kill an elk at 7 yards than a deer at 900. And I am ok with limiting some tech to lower success so we can have more tags. I have never hunted with a muzzleloader with anything other than open sights. So it’s not a huge deal for me what they do about scopes.
Click to expand...
Could you kill a deer at 900?
 
txhunter58 said:
It’s not a question of being a good or bad hunter. Mine was a rhetorical question too. It IS harder to kill an elk at 7 yards than a deer at 900. And I am ok with limiting some tech to lower success so we can have more tags. I have never hunted with a muzzleloader with anything other than open sights. So it’s not a huge deal for me what they do about scopes.
Click to expand...
If it's all about lower success rates (for elk), move the Sept rifle hunt to Nov or Dec where it belongs. Problem solved.
 
elkassassin said:
A Bunch of People/Hunters Thinking that Banning Scopes on SmokePoles Will Make a Big Difference in the Herd!
Click to expand...

I actually don’t know a single person that thinks this. I’ve never even seen someone I don’t know make that claim on the internet. Nobody actually believes that. Why are you making that up and using it as a straw man argument?
 
I reckon some of you fellows need all the technology man has to offer in order to shoot an animal, especially at 900 yards. I reckon I was cursed, I was taught how to hunt at an early age.
 
What a dumb stance to take “ I don’t want me no darn beget range finder cuz me no need to have no know how far sumpin is”

Yeah. What a terrible idea to have solid information on a shot to make an ethical kill. Crawl back under your rock. You’re looking like a douche
 
JPickett said:
What a dumb stance to take “ I don’t want me no darn beget range finder cuz me no need to have no know how far sumpin is”

Yeah. What a terrible idea to have solid information on a shot to make an ethical kill. Crawl back under your rock. You’re looking like a douche
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I’ve never needed a range finder to kill deer, elk, Bear, cougar, oryx, ibex, Nilgai, coyote, Turkey and the list goes on. It’s ok, you were probably just never taught how to hunt and have to use rangefinders and drones and night vision and computers to kill animals at 900 yards because of your lack of hunting knowledge and skills or you’re to lazy or fat to get close enough to animals without spooking them. No worries, you have fun your way and I’ll have fun my way. Good luck to you sir on your long distance hunting this year.
 
What a dumb stance to take, hey Pa is that a deer way over there? Where son? Way over there, well let me look through my $3,000 binos and see. Yep, that’s a deer, now I’ll get my $1000 range finder out, ok, he’s exactly where I like to shoot them, 900 yards! Ok son, I’m raising my $2,000 rifle and looking through my $1,500 scope. Give me a wind reading son, my BC is where it should be on this, get out your phone and do the math required to work out the drop to the target based on the data generated by all the tools and technology we are carrying. I will dial in what you tell me. Don’t rush it son, we’ve got plenty of time, he doesn’t know we are here, he’s 900 yards over there. What a great hunter you are!
 
Vanilla said:
The rifle hunt belongs in December? Ha. Classic. And we let these people vote!
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Those times may not be realistic but his point is valid: get the rifle hunts out of the rut and you will open up lots more opportunity/ tags.
 
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Actually Niller Maybe HARP on Something You Think Will Help Our Suffering Deer Herd Since You Know Everything!

Taking Scopes Off SmokePoles Will Fix ABSO-F'N-LUTELY Nothing!

But In Some Eyes it'll be a Way To Add More Tags/Pressure in the Field!

That's What We Need,Right Niller?

After They Get The MUZZ Scopes Niller They're Bannning Your Favorite CAMO Attire!

GEEZUS!

Vanilla said:
I actually don’t know a single person that thinks this. I’ve never even seen someone I don’t know make that claim on the internet. Nobody actually believes that. Why are you making that up and using it as a straw man argument?
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Vanilla said:
The rifle hunt belongs in December? Ha. Classic. And we let these people vote!
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Damn skippy!

Entitled much? What the hell does voting have to do with anything? Once again, bringing up a clearly irrelevant point to make an irrelevant point.

We? Who's we? Do you really think you're someone who's hung the moon? Because, Hummer, you haven't.

Must be a millennial...:rolleyes:
 
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elkassassin said:
Actually Niller Maybe HARP on Something You Think Will Help Our Suffering Deer Herd Since You Know Everything!

Taking Scopes Off SmokePoles Will Fix ABSO-F'N-LUTELY Nothing!

But In Some Eyes it'll be a Way To Add More Tags/Pressure in the Field!

That's What We Need,Right Niller?

After They Get The MUZZ Scopes Niller They're Bannning Your Favorite CAMO Attire!

GEEZUS!
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Yep, pretty soon we will be hunting with a spear with a flint head. The sky is falling!
 
elkassassin said:
They're Coming For Your LEZBARU Next That Carries Your Weapons!
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My suby hauls flowers to refugees.

There weren’t any scopes on front stuffers back when these primitive weapon seasons were established (speaking generally, not necessarily everywhere). Then things changed in ways most folks back then didn’t see coming.

Kinda like trans-ginger swimmers and stuff. If you think scopes are ok, surely dudes taking advantage of technology to win swim meets is ok too? :ROFLMAO:

Here’s to the future ?
 
Some of the replies here are downright comical.
Deer and elk are hunted from August-January. Then you have shed hunters out and about. Then tag results come out and everyone starts scouting. Basically the animals never catch a break. Atv, utvs have come a long way and make it easy to just go buzz around the mountains. Houses going up in winter range etc etc.

Back In the day there was a 2-3 week deer season. Guys took it off from work, hunted then went back to work. The animals got a rest for the remainder of the year.

All the guys saying wildlife agencies dont do there job should definitely quit their current job and go take it over for them. You will soon find out why. If they cut tag numbers or eliminate seasons they get a ton of backlash. If they give out to many tags then everyone is up in arms saying they are just making money.

Limiting technology is just a bandaid. There’s a reason why wildlife does so much better on big private ranches.
 
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I would venture to say there are deer and elk in this country that a man will never see. This is a very big country with millions upon millions of forested acres. Most hunters don’t venture too far off the road or from camp for that matter. Those who do still can’t cover most of what’s in front of them. There are still big animals out there.
 
Bigfoot 1 said:
I would venture to say there are deer and elk in this country that a man will never see. This is a very big country with millions upon millions of forested acres. Most hunters don’t venture too far off the road or from camp for that matter. Those who do still can’t cover most of what’s in front of them. There are still big animals out there.
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Of course there are but that’s not the point and it hasn’t been the point since the 1990’s. However repeating it again will fall on deaf ears, so why bother. We hear what we want to hear and disregard the rest……..always.
 
Bigfoot 1 said:
What a dumb stance to take, hey Pa is that a deer way over there? Where son? Way over there, well let me look through my $3,000 binos and see. Yep, that’s a deer, now I’ll get my $1000 range finder out, ok, he’s exactly where I like to shoot them, 900 yards! Ok son, I’m raising my $2,000 rifle and looking through my $1,500 scope. Give me a wind reading son, my BC is where it should be on this, get out your phone and do the math required to work out the drop to the target based on the data generated by all the tools and technology we are carrying. I will dial in what you tell me. Don’t rush it son, we’ve got plenty of time, he doesn’t know we are here, he’s 900 yards over there. What a great hunter you are!
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Longest I e ever killed an elk is 72 yards. So if you r ever killed an elk farther then that your just a garbage hunter
 
JPickett said:
You’ve trolled better, try again. I’m guessing you’ve never seen a mule deers shoulder.
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You have lost the point of pulling the trigger. It isn't to kill a deer. IT'S TO RECOVER A DEER.

Make your circle six inches. You start hitting a six inch circle better than %95 then you're good to fire at big game at that range.
 
JPickett said:
It’s funny to hear what you guys think. I just talk about what ive done. Good luck out there this year boomers
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Good luck out there this year boomers = ?

I’m pretty sure I know what JP means, but I could be wrong. Let’s get some input as to what the rest of you think he means.
 

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