10 pm tonight, Politics and Hunting

>Will deer, don't give a crap
>what you think.
> As far
>as stream access is concerned,
>on this round sfw is
>neutral. But the
>fact still remains the streams
>are closed again. Stream
>access is asking for donations
>again so guys, if you
>really care about the issue,
>empty your pockets. They
>need their money to continue
>the fight.
> Fishermen trespassing
>and not following the rules
>have not helped the issue.
>

Transparency a big word that means you should disclose all financial and other information as a non profit, or become a corporation.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
 
Further its called ethics Bird Sh*t anyone with half a brain understands and thinks similar. Maybe you should get the birdie brain in gear and get with the times.


?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
 
CAN OF WORMS, YEAH ITS A CAN OF SH*T THAT THE DWR CHANGED THE APPLICATION PROCESS AFTER THE FACT AND SFW REFUSE TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE. I SAY MY BIG F U TO SFW STANDS UNTIL THERE IS TRANSPARENCY!

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:27PM (MST)[p]Well at least he left a voicemail and didn't send his old lady out to take the bullet.

Seriously though SFW had a chance to tell their story and big F Ing surprise they wouldn't.

Same old SFW, avoid answering the hard questions at all cost.

Soon they won't have that choice and neither will the Division.


"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
Jon Larson declines the interview as soon as the question is asked. Who would have guessed? PATHETIC!
I can't wait for this can of worms to be spilled out.

We won't stop until there is accountability from the DWR and transparency from SFW.




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:57PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:36?PM (MST)

So all I see is you got some attention. Even got a quote from trammer. For those who know him that got you places. Again some sportsmen are angry. Then having Dabakis looking into it, not his first time. I thought this was going to be an investagation, not some people complaining. Not to worried. Now let it fly.
Not much of an investagation.
 
I'm sure you have heard the saying the truth shall set u free. Well it's time sfw shows its hand!
You seem pretty worried to me !
>So all I see is you
>got some attention. Even
>got a quote from trammer.
> For those who know
>him that got you places.
> Again some sportsmen are
>angry. Then having
>Dabackus looking into it, not
>his first time. I
>thought this was going to
>be an investagation, not some
>people complaining. Not
>to worried. Now let
>it fly
 
Like I said Birdman that halo is losing its shine rapidly. If you think it's just Dabakis you would be mistaken.



"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
>That was great story KUTV.
>Thank you for shining a
>light on this important issue.
> A link for those
>who may have missed the
>story: http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
>
>Once again SFW, if everything is
>on the up and up
>then stand up and show
>us. That was a
>big mistake to decline KUTV's
>invitation to tell your story.
> But it was consistent
>with SFW's past actions.
>
>-Hawkeye-
I agree it made them look very guilty and it came off very suspicious.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 10:51PM (MST)[p]Mmmmm, is it Jim Dabakis Democrat, Minority Caucus Manager and member of the Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Environmental Quality Appropriations Subcommittee, job, to look into every thing the Republician Governor and Republican Legislation is doing?

The man is just doing his political party duty. Yes?

His interest would be political, I'm guessing. You all hate politics in wildlife issues, REMEMBER. No? LOL, as you say!

Dc
 
I hope the average sportsman that has not seen what has been going on and watched this starts asking questions. I think SFW came out of this looking like they were trying to hide something and the DWR explanation was just plain B.S.

SFW declining to respond with their side..sad ?????.....nuff said.
 
That's how the game is played now DC.

Like I said if you think it's just Dabakis you would be missing WAY low.

That ivory tower is cracking.


"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
Great job everybody who keeps pushing this and Chris Miller and KUTV on a very good story.

If we're gonna stick with the theme of children's parables, I'll interject with, "The Man Who Built His House Upon the Sand."

Grizzly
 
Good job el matador and Wes. Short and sweet. The john Larson non-statement was straight out of the ol' stand-by playbook.

You can see Don gunning for a Trump cabinet spot from a mile away. Sec of the interior/director of fish and wildlife Peay should scare the f*ck out of people.
 
Could be, could be. So far it's looked pretty much like bed rock to me, but of course you folks have a ton more information about the sub-division than I do.

No cracks in the infrastructure tonight, just the same stuff we've seen here on MM for years. How about that, we got to see it again on KUTV, echos are additive, by golly, that certainly was a bright light the young investigator dug up. Clearly, the gentleman is a fricking genius.

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 11:17PM (MST)[p]I hope the wheels keep turning. Thank you KUTV and Standard Examiner for bringing this out in the open. I hope we are far from done with all this BS!
Jon Larsons declining for interview shouts guilty on SFW's part.

It stinks so bad you can smell it for miles and I'm tired of it's foul odor.




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 11:22PM (MST)[p]Lumpy-

Since you have so much to say, help us understand why your buddies at SFW refused to talk on camera? They had nothing to say? This discussion is below them? KUTV and Chris Miller are haters? They don't owe the public any answers? Nobody is authorized to answer questions? Don was busy with the Republican debate? Or there is no good response to the concerns expressed by sportsmen?

So what is it? You can incorporate a nursery rhyme into your response if necessary.

-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-16 AT 11:28PM (MST)[p]At some point we all need to evaluate the logic behind our arguments. The CEO, who some of you support, "decline(s) comment at this point."

I honestly can't believe some of the bull$#!+ you guys argue for... 100% > 30%. I can put an argument behind that.
 
Bigone, Not worried at all. No difference than what has gone on with mm. Some angry people who want things there way. You people need to change your tactics. You claim all this is illegal. Supposedly there are two attorneys on mm so get things together and prove sfw has been dishonest. Prove they break the law. It's easy to claim but proving it is not so easy. So many people over the years have claimed they can bury sfw. Lots of claims, scare tactics but so far nothing can be proven. Come one you are going no where. Please prove your point. Chickens. Or can you. Nope
 
Birdman, you want to talk honesty?

You still have not responded to Don's statement in the public meeting when the tags were created that "it is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground." (3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Minutes at 22).

Is SFW still willing to honor that commitment?

-Hawkeye-
 
I just caught the report. It'll be interesting to see if anything comes of it. If anything changes.
No surprise here that SFW and/or Don had no interest in responding. They gave up responding here on the site years ago.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
Hawkeye, i have not seen the quote you are talking about. I would love to see the original quote. All i have seen is what was said on here.
 
Just got home and watched the report and was very happy with how it turned out. Great job, KUTV.

Now would be a great time for all of us to contact our state legislators (again for many of us) and let them know how we feel. The iron is hot and they need to hear from everyone.

Here's the page you can use to find out who your representatives are with the info to contact each one of them. Take a few minutes and do it.

http://le.utah.gov/documents/find.htm



Vi Et Armis Invictus Maneo
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 00:27AM (MST)[p]Keep the wheels turning everyone. Bird, you're a joke, that's all I have to say. If SFWs story was clean they'd have no problem telling it.

Time to keep the momentum moving and push the DWR and SFW train right off the track this time.
 
Haweye, if Don said that and said it is happening, then it is. Did he say hey come over andlook through the books for proof. SFW has said the money is going back onthe ground and it is. It is you and others saying it is not. You say to sfw prove it. Answer back is prove its not. As an attorney use your expertise to prove miss conduct. You can't and you know it. Only thing left is to complain and i must say you are good at using your attorney ways to twist the truth.
 
Oneye, glad you think that. One of the nicest things i been told all day. Now make my day and back up all your saying about sfw and the dwr. O gee the joker must be you. You cant back it up.
 
Half truths and rumors. Typical crappy local news story. You know its not worth diddly if they are pulling quotes off the internet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 06:43AM (MST)[p]>O gee the joker must be you.


Birdman, I resent that remark.



***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
Half-truths? You are actually correct in the sense that it only told part of the story. Unfortunately, SFW refused to talk to the reporter. KUTV news can't tell SFW's story if they hide from from the reporter and refuse to talk. If the public is supposedly confused and mistaken, then why didn't SFW take an opportunity to set the record straight?

-Hawkeye-
 
The no truth is that the %70 of the money given to SFW is your money. The half truth is the presentation that %30 isn't as good as %100 because it is presented that there is no difference in the gross. Sure %100 sounds better than %30 to anyone who has never run a business because its a bigger number. Plus there is more money attached to that bid than just the 200 tags. There is a lot more money in play for the state, AND SFW, AND RMEF, than just those tags and the state has to maximize all of it. SFW has proven numbers and RMEF only had hypothetical numbers and a percentage guarantee. That is the truth which is left out.

I also like how they mention the word bribery but give absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

I don't think SFW commented because they don't need to.

Example:

A very close friend of mine who owns and runs a very successful business had an investigating reporter come do a similar hit piece on him and his business over an employee that he fired. Just like this story the reporter publicly told that the owner of the company declined to respond to their request for an interview. Two years have gone by. The reporter no longer does investigative reporting for the TV news and the owner of the company is bigger and more successful than ever. The whole truth was that the owner ran one hellavu good business. His employees knew it, and his customers knew it. All he could have done was hurt himself by getting trapped by some cut and paste hit job. And it didn't matter what one schmuck hunting ratings and exposure thought he knew.
 
Tri,

That is the dumbest example I have ever heard, WHY? Because this was a private company right? Well, this is a non profit org that is taking from the public. Huge difference. IF they want to do what ever they want to do with the "donations" from private people, then great. But when they ask for public tags and public money and then say sorry, we dont have to do anything??? Really??? Then give back our tags and continue.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 09:12AM (MST)[p]All right Birdman, let's stay focused for a minute. Please don't wander off into tangents again. You raised the issue of honesty in a prior post and so I indulged you. I posted a statement made by Don Peay in a public Wildlife Board Meeting and you have now responded with this: "Hawkeye, i have not seen the quote you are talking about. I would love to see the original quote. All i have seen is what was said on here."

So here you go -- a Friday morning history lesson. The March 31, 2005 Wildlife Board Meeting is the meeting where the Wildlife Board adopted the Expo Tag Rule (R657-55) and created the Expo Tags. Don Peay was there in his official position representing SFW. During that meeting, numerous sportmsmen expressed concerns about what the groups were going to do with the revenues from the tags. In response to those concerns and in an effort to convince the Wildlife Board to approve the Expo Tags, Don made the statement that the public had the right "to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground." (3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting at 22) I have attached a link to the minutes for your reading pleasure. Don's statement is right at the bottom of the page 22. See https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GYzBUYlVvS3RCTXM.

Those are the official minutes from the Wildlife Board Meeting and Don made that statement as a representative of SFW. I have not edited the minutes or twisted his words as you like to say. So tell us Birdman, will SFW honor that commitment? Sportsmen have been asking for 6+ years and they want to know how much of the nearly 10 million dollars that has been raised off of our public tags "went onto the ground" in actual conservation projects, to quote Mr. Peay. You are so quick to question the honesty of others for asking legitimate questions. So tell us, is SFW willing to honor that commitment or was that statement simply made in order to convince the Wildlife Board to authorize the tags with no intent to follow through?

-Hawkeye-
 
>Haweye, if Don said that
>and said it is happening,
>then it is. Did
>he say hey come over
>andlook through the books for
>proof. SFW has said
>the money is going back
>onthe ground and it is.
> It is you and
>others saying it is not.
> You say to sfw
>prove it. Answer back
>is prove its not.
>As an attorney use your
>expertise to prove miss conduct.
> You can't and
>you know it. Only thing
>left is to complain and
>i must say you are
>good at using your attorney
>ways to twist the truth.
>

Ok birdman put a list up of sfw recent projects. And wait a minute I thought you guys said the money went to political conservation now it's going on the ground. You guys are hilarious .but I want to thank you guys on here that post these rediculous posts because without you. That story that put sfw on blast probably wouldn't have happened. And the reporter and many others who have an unbiased opinion can read these and come to their own conclusion. And they can see how all over the place you guys are.
 
I think Founder said it pretty well if you look at all of his post.

PETA and environmental groups get involved in the political process to take away hunting and what we love. The want more predators, wolves, grizzles, no guns,lock up ground with the ESA sage grouse, tortoises, etc.etc. They fight us with there lawyers and liberal judges. They are involved getting politicians on their side to kill us off. The play any way they can to win. They are not transparent.

I think the RMEF is a good group now. The don't fight political battles. They used to be neutral with wolf reintroduction. I still have my Bugle magazine that had the director say how he liked to hear the wolves howling. Good thing they got rid of him.

I believe there are a few that think it would be better if SFW and Don would go away, or lose support. I don't agree with all that SFW does, but they have done far more than all the other conservation groups combined to help wildlife and hunting in Utah. Sportsmen see the changes and that is why there banquets are sold out and very successful.

Millions of dollars for fencing roads, migration tunnels, habitat rehab. Fish hatchery repairs 3 million.

Prop 5 passing

Coyote control and bounty more than $500,000 a year.

transplants turkey, sheep, buffalo, etc

having a buck to doe ratio from 3-8 to 18-20 in most units.

Deer collaring, transplants, and research to help find answers.

Kid fishing and hunting opportunities to recruit future sportsmen and women.

I could go on and on and on. I think all conservation groups contribute to making things better. SFW has fought our battles. None have done as much as SFW in Ut.

For years other conservation groups would hold banquets and Raising 20-30K for projects. Founder said plant a few more bushes. That was not helping the big picture. We need millions, and big projects done. The DWR wasn't even using all of our license money to help game animals. Fish hatcheries were falling apart, game management was a joke, etc.

Things have changed a lot for the better IMO and many others.

I have a job and more important things to do than debate. Sold out banquets and expo success, and sportsmen seeing things getting done in their back yards speaks for themselves.
 
"I have a job and more important things to do than debate. Sold out banquets and expo success, and sportsmen seeing things getting done in their back yards speaks for themselves." -huntin50

I have two questions:'

1-Why does every response defending SFW have to be in such condescending tones? "I have a job and more important things to do than debate." Was that the case when a certain buck in Cache County got poached? Or are the rest of us just so far below you that we aren't worth your time?

2- Take away the 200 tags and what is the success of the expo?

I'm tired of hearing this crap. They stick their chest out with the "record number" of attendees at the expo. How many people were there? The expo's own website says "over 40,000" people attended.

Let's compare that to a few other expos:

RMEF 2015 Hunter and Conservation Expo= 87,000 (a record)

2016 SHOT Show = 64,000+ (2nd highest ever total)

Salt Lake Comic Con 2015 = 127,000 (highest ever)

You seeing a theme? All expo attendance is up. And what MDF/SFW do in Utah pails in comparison to what others have done in their most recent expos or conventions. Heck, at 40,000 you are not getting even half of the deer hunters in this state. There were 114,555 that applied in 2015. That doesn't count all the other types that take that number much higher, nor does it account for non-residents, where the expo numbers do.

Come up with something that actually has merit. Because simply stating the expo attendance proves it is factually incorrect and slightly ignorant.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 10:27AM (MST)[p]Birdman, please respond to Post #138 when you have a minute. I look forward to reading your comments. Thanks.

-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 11:22AM (MST)[p]Debating on this issue isn't going to change much IMO.

I know there are passionate good sportsmen, that want more transparency, I don't blame them. Some are RMEF lovers that are mad about the expo.I don't blame them. I'm a supporter of both SFW, RMEF, and NRA.

Vanilla,
I helped out a lot on the Hyde Park poaching, because justice wasn't being done, no one was helping the sportsmen and residents of Hyde Park. I was asked to give a helping hand. I and many others are glad justice was served. Trying to put SFW out of business isn't going to happen. IMO
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 11:33AM (MST)[p]Greg-

There is no real debate on these issues for two reasons: (1) The folks authorized to speak on behalf of SFW don't want to discuss the issues on this forum or anywhere else, including the evening news; and (2) the folks who attempt to defend SFW on this forum won't ever address the core issues and when faced with tough questions always wander off topic or simply state "I am not authorized to speak on behalf of the group."

Therefore, these discussions are more about educating folks as to the problem. And it seems to be working.

-Hawkeye-
 
Greg are there any SWF,MDF supporters pushing for more $ to the ground? That 30 percent is a slap in the face to ALL sportsman.
 
"Vanilla,
I helped out a lot on the Hyde Park poaching, because justice wasn't being done, no one was helping the sportsmen and residents of Hyde Park. I was asked to give a helping hand. I and many others are glad justice was served. Trying to put SFW out of business isn't going to happen. IMO" -huntin50


I would argue there are a lot of people upset about this because they don't feel justice is being done. And this isn't about just one buck, it's our entire system of hunting. I don't have any inclination or desire to see SFW go out of business. I just want them to be bound by the proper rules if they are going to get to suckle constantly on the government teet.

They can do whatever they want, however they want, with the money they get from non-public sources. Even if that means fighting to take away stream access on public water or reducing hunting opportunities on public lands with public wildlife. That is their prerogative and right, but not by using public resources to do it.
 
Thank you KUTV for helping to get this issue out there.

A lot was mentioned above about the need to lobby, wine and dine, etc. I'm not a fan but I do not have a huge beef with private money being used for such things. However, I for one feel that using public resources to fund these type of activities is a gross error.

Javihammer, Thank you very much for the info on the differences between 501c3 and 501c4 organizations. (post 92)
 
Hawkeye, sorry I am booked now for 5 weeks with meetings. Not sure what you want and maybe I don't understand. The question was ask of Don about what if there was an audit. Don said fine. Was it put into the records requiring an audit or not. I do not see that it was.
As I said before I and others on mm do not represent sfw. Just like most people speaking for rmef are not representing officially rmef. Don't try to make more off of statements than are warranted. Sfw supporters support sfw. Rmef supporters support rmef. Nothing more.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 02:22PM (MST)[p]>Hawkeye, sorry I am booked
>now for 5 weeks with
>meetings. Not sure what
>you want and maybe I
>don't understand. The question
>was ask of Don about
>what if there was an
>audit. Don said fine.
> Was it put into
>the records requiring an audit
>or not. I do
>not see that it was.
>
> As I said
>before I and others on
>mm do not represent sfw.
> Just like most people
>speaking for rmef are not
>representing officially rmef. Don't try
>to make more off of
>statements than are warranted. Sfw
>supporters support sfw.
>Rmef supporters support rmef. Nothing
>more.

You are absolutely unbelieveable! A Mr. Howard, whomever that is, stated at that meeting right in the lines above what Hawkeye quoted that the $5 fees had an audit requirement and asked if Mr. Peay was comfortable with that. Mr. Peay then made that statement, which I would read as he agreed with an audit and stated that SFW had a good track record. Now was that audit removed from the specifications,and even if it was, why is the organization having a hard time with this if they have a good track record and nothing to hide? IMHO I think their good track record probably involves running away as fast as they can from the real issue that the Don already indicated he was fine with!
 
Don is a complete slap vag, plain and simple. Don't sugar coat it or the phat as$ would probably eat it that too. The ship got off course years and years ago. Kudos to kutv! I'm sure eakle and ksl have a feel good sfw story in the works.
 
>Example:
>
>A very close friend of mine
>who owns and runs a
>very successful business had an
>investigating reporter come do a
>similar hit piece on him
>and his business over an
>employee that he fired.
>Just like this story the
>reporter publicly told that the
>owner of the company declined
>to respond to their request
>for an interview. Two
>years have gone by.
>The reporter no longer does
>investigative reporting for the TV
>news and the owner of
>the company is bigger and
>more successful than ever.
>The whole truth was that
>the owner ran one hellavu
>good business. His employees
>knew it, and his customers
>knew it. All he
>could have done was hurt
>himself by getting trapped by
>some cut and paste hit
>job. And it didn't matter
>what one schmuck hunting ratings
>and exposure thought he knew.


Tristate,
A stark contrast to the result of the investigative reporting done by Phoenix KTVK's Crystal Cruz in 2012 when AZSFW bribed Jerry Weier's to try and steal 200 primo big game tags from the AZ regular draw with HB2072. Three years have gone by: HB2072 got withdrawn by Weier's the day following his KTVK interview; AZSFW pulled the plug on their $300,000 lobbyist Susan Gilstrap, who then retired; AZSFW dried up and blew away; Crystal Cruz advanced her career by taking an investigative reporting promotion to KCLA Los Angeles; AZF&G organized a public sportsmen's advocacy group to watch guard against future hostile tag takeover attempts by corrupt wildlife organizations.

UTSFW has certainly protected their scam exposure more than their offshoot AZ bunch did, but any damage at all done to the UTSFW machine would be a welcome result of this KUTV segment. BTW Care to challenge me on the bribery accusation in the Arizona case? No problem there, in case you don't remember. You can find it in the MM archives.


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
>Example:
>
>A very close friend of mine
>who owns and runs a
>very successful business had an
>investigating reporter come do a
>similar hit piece on him
>and his business over an
>employee that he fired.
>Just like this story the
>reporter publicly told that the
>owner of the company declined
>to respond to their request
>for an interview. Two
>years have gone by.
>The reporter no longer does
>investigative reporting for the TV
>news and the owner of
>the company is bigger and
>more successful than ever.
>The whole truth was that
>the owner ran one hellavu
>good business. His employees
>knew it, and his customers
>knew it. All he
>could have done was hurt
>himself by getting trapped by
>some cut and paste hit
>job. And it didn't matter
>what one schmuck hunting ratings
>and exposure thought he knew.


Tristate,
A stark contrast to the result of the investigative reporting done by Phoenix KTVK's Crystal Cruz in 2012 when AZSFW bribed Jerry Weier's to try and steal 200 primo big game tags from the AZ regular draw with HB2072. Three years have gone by: HB2072 got withdrawn by Weier's the day following his KTVK interview; AZSFW pulled the plug on their $300,000 lobbyist Susan Gilstrap, who then retired; AZSFW dried up and blew away; Crystal Cruz advanced her career by taking an investigative reporting promotion to KCLA Los Angeles; AZF&G organized a public sportsmen's advocacy group to watch guard against future hostile tag takeover attempts by corrupt wildlife organizations.

UTSFW has certainly protected their scam exposure more than their offshoot AZ bunch did, but any damage at all done to the UTSFW machine would be a welcome result of this KUTV segment. BTW Care to challenge me on the bribery accusation in the Arizona case? No problem there, in case you don't remember. You can find it in the MM archives.


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
Birdman-

You suddenly got booked for the next 5 weeks and don't have time to respond to the simple question raised in Post # 138? In the prior posts, you asked for me to provide the direct statement that Don made at the Wildlife Board Meeting. I did that and showed that Don stated on the record that the public had the right "to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground." (3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting at 22). So my question to you is will SFW honor that commitment or was that simply said in an effort to massage the concerns of the public and to get the Board to approve the Expo Tags? This relates to the honesty question that you have thrown at me and others.

-Hawkeye-
 
"Example:

A very close friend of mine who owns and runs a very successful business had an investigating reporter come do a similar hit piece on him and his business over an employee that he fired. Just like this story the reporter publicly told that the owner of the company declined to respond to their request for an interview. Two years have gone by. The reporter no longer does investigative reporting for the TV news and the owner of the company is bigger and more successful than ever. The whole truth was that the owner ran one hellavu good business. His employees knew it, and his customers knew it. All he could have done was hurt himself by getting trapped by some cut and paste hit job. And it didn't matter what one schmuck hunting ratings and exposure thought he knew."


Cool story Bro.
 
Hawkeye, yes I am busy. Happens every month for the first two or three weeks with meetings, some at dwr offices, some other parts of the state. March is busy. I see where Lee said there was a built in audit and Don said that was fine. What about the final contract. Did it have that in the final. I don't know but assume good chance. I am guessing you are a spokesman authorized by rmef. That is good. Do I think sfw has done illegal dealings? NO. Do I think they have followed the final agreement? Yes. Now not seeing the final agreement signed I don't know. If you have not seen it, neither do you. What I get tired of is the bull ##### you allow on mm that goes on you know are is true. I think sfw and the dwr have been straight forward with all this. I think you have intentionally egged people on in order to try to shut down sfw. Do I think you will succeed, no way in hell.
Now I am not interested in all the name calling, bullying, loud mouth people on mm who have no intention on carrying on a conversation in a civil way. So if you people want to call names and try to bully as some have, I just don't have the time right now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 09:35PM (MST)[p]Birdman you act like this is all Hawkeye and he is the only one sick of sfw' secret agendas

This is not a rmef vs sfw issue this is people who actually care about the future of Utah's wildlife vs sfw

This is a common sportsman average hunter sick and tired of sfw looking at our public resources as a dollar sign issue.

This is a non profit organization hiding the money and profits from public assets issue.

This is a sfw thinks they can do whatever they want with utahs wildlife issue.

And this is a issue brought on by nobody else but sfw. from their secretive we could careless what the general public thinks we have friends in high places attitude.we will do what we want with the money attitude.

SO quit trying to make this a rmef vs sfw issue not once have I or anybody I know received an email, phone call, press release or anything from rmef asking for help on this matter.hawkeye simply put all the facts out their and stated his opinions. It's not his fault they are truthful
 
Put all these posts by the SFW people together and what do you get? Answer---Same old thing, nothing but nothing, just diddly squat to circumvent what the real issue is here! Now Birdman comes back making a statement about Hawkeye being a spokesperson for RMEF when we're not even talking about RMEF here and Hawkeye has said repeatedly that he speaks for himself, not RMEF, and Mr. David Allen CEO of RMEF, can speak for that organization.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]Birdman...I understand work can keep us away from having discussions. There are many on here who are capable of having a constructive conversation. The problem is that questions don't get answered by some who like to side step the question. To me, there are a few who here who act very narrow minded on the subject or maybe they're just stubborn. Do you think you have carried a constructive conversation on these threads? I don't think you have.
Hawkeye is correct. These aren't debates. These are comments to help inform others. Even though you don't like what's being said. Since you or lumpy don't represent SFW, there's nothing to debate. But I would say that whether it's on MM or any other social media discussion concerning this topic, you and lumpys views are the minority.


Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
Birdman-

When you are in a hole, stop digging! Your latest comments to me are laughable. You posted: "What I get tired of is the bull ##### you allow on mm that goes on you know are is true. I think sfw and the dwr have been straight forward with all this. I think you have intentionally egged people on in order to try to shut down sfw."

First, I am not sure what bull#### you are referring to. I assume that you are referring to folks asking legitimate questions of SFW and you, lumpy and mini-lumpy dodging those questions. Yes, that is frustrating.

Second, you apparently blame me for allowing this bull#### to go on. Once again, I am not the moderator or referee for this site. If you disagree with something that is posted, feel free to clear that issue up for us. This group is pretty fair and open minded if you stick to the facts.

Third, you state that SFW and the DWR "have been straight forward with all of this." Did SFW offer some explanation that I missed? Chris Miller must have missed that call.

Fourth, you accuse me of "intentionally egging people on in order to shut down SFW." Everything I have posted is true and factual. If you are angry that I am posting the truth and educating folks as to this issue, well that's just too bad. Once again, show me one thing I have posted on this issue in the last six years that was not true. You have literally hundreds of posts to choose from.

Finally, I have never called you names or bullied you. I just questioned SFW and posted facts. Sometimes the truth hurts. Don't take it personally. I have no beef with you or anybody else with SFW.

-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-16 AT 11:29PM (MST)[p]"Since you or lumpy don't represent SFW, there's nothing to debate. "

Thanks BillyBob, in my case that is absolutely correct, I've never represented SFW. I've responded to suggestions on how to bring an end to corruption, responded to "That do you think?" questions, answered questions about my opinion. Not all, but some wanted to know why SFW faithful weren't responding, wanted to know where everybody went, and why were the kool aid drinkers silent.

The past thirty days or so represent the reasons most SFW don't post here. I believe it is 100% why SFW executives no longer post here and why I would advise them not to. It is why, in my opinion Joh Larson doesn't respond to cat calls from the Forum or to calls from the KUTV reporter, just my assumption. Like you so correctly said, I've got no authority or responsibility, to speak officially for SFW or why they do or don't do any thing.

In my own style, a general theme in my posts has been expressing "opinions" as to why SFW does what they do and I've express an opinion as to why I believe the boy on the bus wants more than transparency and stated what I believe is his current tactic to achieve what I believe is a more sinister outcome. In my opinion, he's the one that believes "any behavior justifies the outcome". Why else would he have assisted RMEF attempt to win the 200 tags contract? I'm guessing it was the boy that called RMEF with the proposal, rather than the other way around, just a guess of course, no proof and it wouldn't matter to the dogs of war either way.

So.......I'll take your thoughtful recommendation to heart and stop posting on SFW discussions and you folks can go back to shouting at a silent screen. When anyone gets on MM and asks why the SFW kool aid drinker have nothing to say, please answer their inquiry, for me, this way:

"Since you or lumpy don't represent SFW, there's nothing to debate. "

Appreciate it if you would.

DC
 
Lumpy-

So it is our fault that the President/CEO of SFW refused to speak with a reporter and answer legitimate questions? Okay, if you say so.

You want to know why I assisted RMEF in their Expo Tag bid? No reason to guess. I am happy to tell you. Because RMEF offered to do the right thing and dedicate 100% of the money to actual conservation projects with a fully independent audit. As a side note, RMEF offered to pay me for my services. But guess what, I gladly volunteered my assistance for free because RMEF doing right by sportsmen and wildlife.

And finally, you think I called RMEF with this idea? Wrong again -- there is a pattern here folks. If you want to hear the truth, pick up the phone and call David Allen. Unlike SFW's President, he will answer the phone.

Goodbye DeLoss . . . unfortunately we both know you will be back.

-Hawkeye-
 
By the way, have you decided who to name in your defamation lawsuit? Good luck with that one.

-Hawkeye-
 
Good job to everyone who has worked to get this issue to where it is now. It looks like the facts will come out soon enough. If there is corruption, hopefully those responsible will be held accountable.
 
Oh what am I going to do! I know everyone has something important to say, but I gloss over all of you to see what Hawkeye, Lumpy, and Muley73 have to say. It will not be the same without ol' Lumpy.

GEEZ . . . . PLEASE COME BACK LUMPY.
 
Glad I am a 40 year AZ. resident and only have shovel sunshine and not Bull$hit all day. Proud to say I have hunted 8 States but never applied in Utah and never will. at least the scenery up there is pretty..............BULL!.
 
>PETA and environmental groups get involved
>in the political process to
>take away hunting and what
>we love. The want
>more predators, wolves, grizzles, no
>guns,lock up ground with the

This is my opinion is why I dislike SFW. No Wolves No Grizzlies, No Predators. We are hunters and conversationalists of all species. We should want to grow these populations to create hunting opportunities. This position to kill them all is a reason why we have a hard time getting things de-listed. A hunting group says lets manage them like any other species and another hunting group comes in and says kill them all. Killing all predators to inflate deer/elk populations is not conservation, it's farming for wildlife. Predators have a right to exist and be hunted/managed like elk and deer.

>ESA sage grouse, tortoises, etc.etc.

If it wasn't for Wyoming's, Colorado's, and Montana's Sage Grouse plans they would have been listed with or without SFW. SFW came in with the money, but the plan to benefit the species won.

>Coyote control and bounty more than
>$500,000 a year.

This will always rub me the wrong way. Bounties on wildlife.

No one is discounting that SFW doesn't or hasn't done things for wildlife to benefit the people of Utah. The issue is to just let the public know how the money is being spent. If everything is as you suggest then there should be no reason to not be transparent with the sum of money that they have received.
 

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