7 Hours Left.

[hogg_65]

7 Hours Left for the young bucks to stay away from the roads.
Maybe the APR idea should go into effect the last 5 days of the season on all units during the 9 day General hunt.

 

[Tikka]

The little guys took a big hit yesterday where I was at…. Lots of folks “filling their freezer”

 

[elkassassin]

Them Must Be Some PISSCUTTER Freezers!

 

[Tikka]

Had a guy shoot a little 2 point in front of my nephew and i last night… First shot hit low front legs, second shot took out both hind quarters… third shot put him out of his misery and took out both front shoulders…
My nephew who is new to hunting says to the guy “good shooting” the guy’s response, yeah, I’m not a deer hunter, I’m an elk hunter… I didn’t get my elk this year so, I needed to fill my freezer with something… Well I can guarantee the only left on that little guy was the back straps and maybe the tender loins….
But by gawd he cut his tag and filled his freezer…

 

[elkassassin]

Ain't That Something Tikka?

Too Bad Your Nephew Even Had To Witness It!

But It's Part Of Hunting!

Some Of The BS You See In The Field Is Un-Believable!

Had a guy shoot a little 2 point in front of my nephew and i last night… First shot hit low front legs, second shot took out both hind quarters… third shot put him out of his misery and took out both front shoulders…
My nephew who is new to hunting says to the guy “good shooting” the guy’s response, yeah, I’m not a deer hunter, I’m an elk hunter… I didn’t get my elk this year so, I needed to fill my freezer with something… Well I can guarantee the only left on that little guy was the back straps and maybe the tender loins….
But by gawd he cut his tag and filled his freezer…

 

[Vanilla]

The nerve of a hunter actually liking to utilize the meat on an animal he kills!!!

We should all just care about anthers instead. Hats way more important.

 

[elkassassin]

It's Not To Utilize The Meat!

It's To Fill The Freezer! (Pay Attention To Them!)

Without It,That 50.00+ a LB Deer Meat Somebody Would Starve To Death!

The nerve of a hunter actually liking to utilize the meat on an animal he kills!!!

We should all just care about anthers instead. Hats way more important.

 

[Vanilla]

I’ve never claimed I would starve if I didn’t tag out, but I do know having elk in the freezer is very desirable in my household.

But you’re probably right, we shouldn’t care about the meat. Just cut the heads off for the antlers and leave the rest to rot. Great plan Bessy!

 

[elkassassin]

I Didn't & Have Never Said It Was OK To Waste Anything,Let Alone Game Meat!

It Just Amazes Me How Some Of These Guys Can Fill Their Freezers With One Modern Day Mule Deer!

Hey Niller!

Did You Read What Tikka Posted Above?

How Many Freezers Do You Think That Ole Boy Is Gonna Fill With That Buck?

I’ve never claimed I would starve if I didn’t tag out, but I do know having elk in the freezer is very desirable in my household.

But you’re probably right, we shouldn’t care about the meat. Just cut the heads off for the antlers and leave the rest to rot. Great plan Bessy!

 

[Tikka]

The nerve of a hunter actually liking to utilize the meat on an animal he kills!!!

We should all just care about anthers instead. Hats way more important.

I’m all for utilizing the meat, learn to shoot better to utilize all 35lbs of meat off a two point… not shoot every quarter up to waste 90 percent of it…

 

[Vanilla]

How Many Freezers Do You Think That Ole Boy Is Gonna Fill With That Buck?

Not sure, but it doesn’t matter. All that matters is cutting off hunters from being able to hunt so your boys at SFW can sell more tags and people can just look at those antlers!

Stupid hunters wanting meat. The nerve!!!!

 

[elkassassin]

Once Again!

Read Tikka's Posts!

Not sure, but it doesn’t matter. All that matters is cutting off hunters from being able to hunt so your boys at SFW can sell more tags and people can just look at those antlers!

Stupid hunters wanting meat. The nerve!!!!

 

[2lumpy]

I’ve never claimed I would starve if I didn’t tag out, but I do know having elk in the freezer is very desirable in my household.

But you’re probably right, we shouldn’t care about the meat. Just cut the heads off for the antlers and leave the rest to rot. Great plan Bessy!

It’s not so much that I don’t understand meat hunters. I was one for a decade or so myself, I get it. What I have difficulty coping with is the folks who are antler hunters when ever they can be and a meat hunter on the last day they can hunt.

What this group of hunters are is antler hunts first and meat hunters, only if, they can’t kill for antlers. They claim they’re not antler hunters….. they just want a tag, yet…… sell them a tag, and they hunt antler and settle for a few pounds of meat if the mature antlers don’t show up. But, that wasn’t their desire, it was what they settled for.

Why………. no larger antlers, because we manage for meat, a few pounds of meat. Yet, the same folks demand more opportunity, and by doing so destroy the population, over all. Never allow, that which they really want to grow to maturity. I thinkI read you said you haven’t killed a deer in Utah, in 15 years. Why not? You must be hunting for larger antlers, or your not looking very hard.

I have the same trouble with hunters who find fault with antler hunters but apply for the very limited Limited Entry tags every year, until they finally get a Limite Entry tag. Then they are all fired up to kill an animal for its antlers…….. then….. immediately after, go back to demanding a tag every year because they are meat hunters again. 99% of our meat hunters are meat hunters in name only.

Otherwise how do you explain away their real world behavior.

You are good at coming up with explanations why I’m the way I’m, you come up with an explanation why you hunt for meat for 15 years and never kill any meat. I think you’re an antler hunter and you’re afraid some one else will get your tag to antler hunt. Maybe you’re a private land owner and you just want to make dang sure your family gets a tag every year. That might explain why you never kill a meat deer, you let the family or friends…..? What is it……… why no kills?

 

[elkassassin]

Niller Is BS'ING Us A Little!

Maybe Alot!

He Might Be Trying To Out-Do His 'P' Buck?

And That's Fine!

Even though He Cusses Other Antler/Trophy Hunters I Think He's Got A Little Of That In Him Himself!

It’s not so much that I don’t understand meat hunters. I was one for a decade or so myself, I get it. What I have difficulty coping with is the folks who are antler hunters when ever they can be and a meat hunter on the last day they can hunt.

What this group of hunters are is antler hunts first and meat hunters, only if, they can’t kill for antlers. They claim they’re not antler hunters….. they just want a tag, yet…… sell them a tag, and they hunt antler and settle for a few pounds of meat if the mature antlers don’t show up. But, that wasn’t their desire, it was what they settled for.

Why………. no larger antlers, because we manage for meat, a few pounds of meat. Yet, the same folks demand more opportunity, and by doing so destroy the population, over all. Never allow, that which they really want to grow to maturity. I thinkI read you said you haven’t killed a deer in Utah, in 15 years. Why not? You must be hunting for larger antlers, or your not looking very hard.

I have the same trouble with hunters who find fault with antler hunters but apply for the very limited Limited Entry tags every year, until they finally get a Limite Entry tag. Then they are all fired up to kill an animal for its antlers…….. then….. immediately after, go back to demanding a tag every year because they are meat hunters again. 99% of our meat hunters are meat hunters in name only.

Otherwise how do you explain away their real world behavior.

You are good at coming up with explanations why I’m the way I’m, you come up with an explanation why you hunt for meat for 15 years and never kill any meat. I think you’re an antler hunter and you’re afraid some one else will get your tag to antler hunt. Maybe you’re a private land owner and you just want to make dang sure your family gets a tag every year. That might explain why you never kill a meat deer, you let the family or friends…..? What is it……… why no kills?

 

[Sparks Shooter]

I have my own opinions, but I really try to extend the courtesy to others to do whatever they want as long as it falls within the law. I understand that there are many reasons why people hunt and why they choose to kill or not. I've decided to stay out of all that and hunt the way I want for the reasons I want.

With all the infighting and regulatory warfare among hunters, who really needs anti-hunters anymore? ------SS

 

[2lumpy]

I have my own opinions, but I really try to extend the courtesy to others to do whatever they want as long as it falls within the law. I understand that there are many reasons why people hunt and why they choose to kill or not. I've decided to stay out of all that and hunt the way I want for the reasons I want.

With all the infighting and regulatory warfare among hunters, who really needs anti-hunters anymore? ------SS

I understand and I’d really like to be able to do the same but I different in that when I get what I want to be legal and it prevents someone else from doing what he wants legally………. we are going to both push back. Supply and demand prevents both parties from being franchised.

Vanillas interest in dividing limited supply into two half’s is the right thing to do.

Also, due to high demand and limited supply of big game animals of all species, two tags, like Vanilla suggested is one to many. One tag, of any species has got to happen…… and the sooner the better for everyone but the maximum opportunists will squeal so it’s going to take an even more limited supply before they’ll tolerate “limiting their opportunities” that much.

When there are more sportsmen that want to hunt than there are sportsmen hunting, how can we justify either meat hunters or antler hunters getting more than one tag per year?

If we don’t hurry up and do something significant about the supply, we’ll be lucky if we get to hunt one animal every other year or every third year. We’re almost that short on supply already, in case on one has noticed already. ?

 

[Vanilla]

I thinkI read you said you haven’t killed a deer in Utah, in 15 years. Why not? You must be hunting for larger antlers, or your not looking very hard.

You are mistaken. You have never read me say I haven’t killed a deer in 15 years.

You are good at coming up with explanations why I’m the way I’m, you come up with an explanation why you hunt for meat for 15 years and never kill any meat. I think you’re an antler hunter and you’re afraid some one else will get your tag to antler hunt. Maybe you’re a private land owner and you just want to make dang sure your family gets a tag every year. That might explain why you never kill a meat deer, you let the family or friends…..? What is it……… why no kills?

I can address each assumption in order:

I’m not worried someone else will get “my tag.” At all. I was smart enough at 13 years old to invest $500 of my own money I earned delivering papers since I was 8 years old in my hunting future. It was a very wise decision!

I do own private property. It’s not hunting property, unfortunately. It’s in the middle of an incorporated area with a house on it. Total bummer! But I still feel blessed.

I’m the only one in my house that has a blue card, but hoping that changes this winter finally! Been working on these kids for years. Maybe they’ll finally come through. ?

Again, you read incorrectly about kills. It has not been 15 years. But there have probably been more than 15 years in my hunting career that I’ve not shot a buck. Some of those by choice, some not. When it came to deciding not to shoot I would say that each one had different motivation behind it. I don’t need to kill a deer every year to satiate any internal desires or prove myself to external forces. Some years I go into it saying “any legal buck will do,” and some years I say I’m not going to pull the trigger unless it’s on something a little bigger. When I get an elk in any given year then I’m usually less motivated to shoot a deer, to be honest. I can’t say that the same motivation guides me every year. Hunting is not life for me. I love it. I have a great time doing it. I hope to continue to be able to do it. But it’s secondary to a lot of things in my life, and that’s okay. Many things go into decisions to shoot or not shoot for me, and that is fluid year by year.

I’ve got plenty of kills for my own purposes. I’ve got some big ones and some small ones. I hope some more big ones and some more small ones are in my future.

We all do this for different reasons, and that’s okay. I’m completely comfortable with whatever legal motivation anyone goes out into the field each year with. However, the difference between me and those you’re falsely trying to equate me with is I’m not trying to take away chances from anyone to do it the way they choose to do it. If you want to set a goal for 190 inches or nothing for the rest of your hunting life, more power to ya! I actually hope you get one…or more. Your success doesn’t mean my failure. My hackles raise when rolls try to force their way of hunting on me.

Plenty of variability in Utah for all kinds. I’m 100% comfortable letting everyone pursue this hobby for their own reasons. Are you comfortable allowing me to do the same?

(That’s not just a question for you lumpy. That goes out to many people on this forum.)

 

[2lumpy]

You are mistaken. You have never read me say I haven’t killed a deer in 15 years.



I can address each assumption in order:

I’m not worried someone else will get “my tag.” At all. I was smart enough at 13 years old to invest $500 of my own money I earned delivering papers since I was 8 years old in my hunting future. It was a very wise decision!

I do own private property. It’s not hunting property, unfortunately. It’s in the middle of an incorporated area with a house on it. Total bummer! But I still feel blessed.

I’m the only one in my house that has a blue card, but hoping that changes this winter finally! Been working on these kids for years. Maybe they’ll finally come through. ?

Again, you read incorrectly about kills. It has not been 15 years. But there have probably been more than 15 years in my hunting career that I’ve not shot a buck. Some of those by choice, some not. When it came to deciding not to shoot I would say that each one had different motivation behind it. I don’t need to kill a deer every year to satiate any internal desires or prove myself to external forces. Some years I go into it saying “any legal buck will do,” and some years I say I’m not going to pull the trigger unless it’s on something a little bigger. When I get an elk in any given year then I’m usually less motivated to shoot a deer, to be honest. I can’t say that the same motivation guides me every year. Hunting is not life for me. I love it. I have a great time doing it. I hope to continue to be able to do it. But it’s secondary to a lot of things in my life, and that’s okay. Many things go into decisions to shoot or not shoot for me, and that is fluid year by year.

I’ve got plenty of kills for my own purposes. I’ve got some big ones and some small ones. I hope some more big ones and some more small ones are in my future.

We all do this for different reasons, and that’s okay. I’m completely comfortable with whatever legal motivation anyone goes out into the field each year with. However, the difference between me and those you’re falsely trying to equate me with is I’m not trying to take away chances from anyone to do it the way they choose to do it. If you want to set a goal for 190 inches or nothing for the rest of your hunting life, more power to ya! I actually hope you get one…or more. Your success doesn’t mean my failure. My hackles raise when rolls try to force their way of hunting on me.

Plenty of variability in Utah for all kinds. I’m 100% comfortable letting everyone pursue this hobby for their own reasons. Are you comfortable allowing me to do the same?

(That’s not just a question for you lumpy. That goes out to many people on this forum.)

Absolutely, as long as you don’t encourage or allow someone or everyone to damage the supply and thereby destroy the resource. When I see you and others doing that, I have attempted to intervene. I’ve been unsuccessful, obviously. You’ve won, I’ve lost. I’m no longer chirping where it counts now days. No more attempted intervention from me. ? We’re out of mule deer and you’re still not happy that somebody is attempting to preserve the remaining population. I think I read where you said you were not happy they reduced tags this year, after the high winter mortality. I’m not surprised.

And I think you said you’re an antler hunter, when you decide to be……… so by your explanation, you decide what you want and then go kill it. Some times a larger buck, some times a meat buck………. Sorry I’m not sure I believe that. I doubt you are ever so fluid that you’ve turned down a mature buck with large antlers when you were hunting for a meat buck. But he’ll, what do I know, there are stranger people than you or I Vanilla.

 

[Vanilla]

You’ve been wrong more than one time here, lumpy. So it shouldn’t be a shock to you that you would be wrong assuming things about me again!

They are all “meat bucks,” for me anyway. Every bit of meat I can get will “fill the freezer” and be offensive to you and bessy. I’d like to say one day I’d shoot one just for the antlers and waste the rest in your honors, but that ain’t for me.

There are plenty of hunts in this state that are very limited and offer the big mature bucks you seek. Pay for em or get in line. I’m not taking away anything from people that want that type of hunting. Have at it! I wish you the most luck on your goals. I sincerely mean that.

 

[2lumpy]

Wrong, wrong…… ha ha, you got that right for sure. If we learn from our mistakes, I may well be the smartest guy you’ve ever encountered. Fact is, that fact that I’m wasting your time is proof plenty I’m wrong more than not.

Sure they‘re all meat bucks, I eat them all too. Absolutely no offense with you or anyone else with wild game in their freezer. I’ve said this a million times, it’s legal, I’ll never blame the sportsman for doing what the bureaucracy says he can do. I blame the bureaucrats. I believe most sportsmen want to preserve and propagate the resource but if the bureaucrats are going to make it legal to kill everything, why would they set back and watch people like yourself do it. They won’t. They’ll do want the law allows. Natural behavior in my opinion. So have a ball, will it lasts, as Founder has often suggested.
I would say a few, low production units in the State that are LE units, not lots. I did a statistical comparison 10 years ago, I know I’m wrong about lots of things, as you’ve pointed out, but it seems as though fewer than 15% all of the deer in the State were the LE units. So….. a few units, but not many deer, trophy/mature sized or other wise.

In conclusion, all my hunting days are behind me Vanilla. Won’t be hunting Utah again, that is a promise. Age has it’s consequences. If I ever hunt big game again, it will in a ground blind on private property, for whitetails and even that’s very unlikely. I doubt I’ll ever stop expressing frustrations with the bureaucrats but maybe they’re going to surprise me. That would be nice, not for me but for future hunting generations.

Back at you….. keep your power dry partner, I’m ready to give this conversation up too.

 

[lif]

It's Not To Utilize The Meat!

It's To Fill The Freezer! (Pay Attention To Them!)

Without It,That 50.00+ a LB Deer Meat Somebody Would Starve To Death!

If you don’t think that meat has much value, why do you kill animals?

 

[quest]

Five Stages of the Hunter - Hunt Fair Chase​

Regardless of our motivations for hunting, studies show that all sportsmen evolve through, or are currently in one of five identified stages in their hunting careers. As we age and our experiences accumulate, what we give and get back from hunting changes over time. What defined success or accomplishment at age 14 can be very different at ages 24, 34, and 54. As careers in hunting evolve, so too are the hunter’s attitudes and commitments to conservation.

SHOOTER STAGE​

For many who are introduced to hunting at an early age, our satisfaction can be as simple as just being able to see game and get a shot. Our skills in the woods, recognizing and interpreting sign, and knowing game behavior, when and where are just developing. Seeing game and getting shots are what matters most, and misses are of little concern. Our skills are being tested and refined, including field shooting skills and whether or not to take a shot. The number of shots taken or opportunities missed can be the measure of a good day.

LIMITING OUT STAGE​

The satisfaction of just seeing game and getting a shot is now not enough reward. These are replaced with the need to bring home game, and not just one, but a limit of birds or filling a tag. Limiting out is in the conversation as hunt stories are told. This stage is very much more than just being a hunter, and more about proving oneself as a skilled hunter who get his or her game every time out.

TROPHY STAGE​

Shooting opportunity and quantity of game are replaced by a self-imposed selectivity in the pursuit, and the quality of game taken begins to trump quantity. Prior successes tell us we can get game, but what kind of game has become more important. Mature male specimens—“trophies”—are fewer in number and harder to come by. More planning, preparation, skill, patience, and persistence are required to be successful.
The notion of conservation enters one’s thinking. We have seen enough and hunted enough to now realize wildlife, and quality-hunting experiences don’t happen by chance. Trophies in particular are a result of age, good genetics, and a life spent on quality habitat. Finding a trophy therefore begins with hunting where proper wildlife and land management are taking place—where older age-class animals exist. This takes purpose, and being part of this purpose is now also important to the hunter. Getting involved with conservation organizations and being vocal about issues offers it own rewards, as giving back and caring for the resource now adds to the hunting experience. Thought is now given to, “If I take this animal, how will he be replaced so I can hunt here again next year?”

METHOD STAGE​

While a trophy may still be the benchmark, “how taken” has become more important than “what taken.” With all the technology at a hunter’s disposal, what is really necessary to be successful is employed, and what is not necessary is left behind. Self-restriction now adds to the challenge and rewarding aspects of the hunt. An example of a hunter within this stage is the handicapping of his or her affective range by hunting with short-range weapons such as a handgun, muzzleloader, or bow and arrow. In some instances the mechanical advantage of a compound bow is left behind for the simplicity of a recurve or longbow. These methods take practice and discipline, and both are cherished as part of the process.
The chase and a lasting experience move to the forefront over just taking game or only a trophy. The easy route to a quick kill means much less than a hard-fought, tough pursuit. Going home without game increases in frequency and is understood and accepted. The reward now becomes very much proportionate to the challenge and effort expended. An animal taken by more skill than a technological advantage becomes a memorable trophy, regardless of size.

SPORTSMAN STAGE​

All stages are remembered fondly, but the urgency to take game or a trophy fades to the background as the total hunting experience now offers its highest rewards. Planning, practicing, and honing skills are still important, but just being outdoors, reconnecting with family and friends, and taking the time to “soak it all in” happen more and more. Filling a limit or a tag means the hunt is over, as is the experience. Photo memories now include more than just that of game taken. Camp, scenery, old buildings, and other wildlife now appear in the portfolio. Macro becomes micro as every aspect of the hunt is cherished. Trophies taken in the past mean more and are converted from a prize for the wall into memories for a lifetime.
By now, activity in conservation is at its peak. Mentoring young sportsmen, seeing that they enjoy and experience what you have experienced, can replace even your own opportunity at taking game. For many, this the greatest reward in hunting.
Not all hunters experience each stage completely or necessarily in this order. Some may enter motivated by the trophy stage. Some are completely satisfied stopping at any one of these stages, and some progress all the way through. There is no right or wrong.
It is also true that many sportsmen seek to experience the hunting of different species in different locations and habitats. This can either lead to reverting back or jumping forward in stages depending on the species or hunt itself. For example, knowing that a hunter may only have the chance to hunt for one particular species in their lifetime, a trophy stage hunter may choose to take a younger animal he or she might not have taken otherwise, or a bowhunter might opt for a rifle for a particular hunt.
Regardless of the hunting stages, what originally brings most hunters to hunting remains a constant—an appreciation and fascination for wildlife. Even within the earliest of these stages, all sportsmen are participating in conservation because of their participation in hunting. Thankfully, for many the minimal commitment to conservation from the purchase of licenses, tags, and supplies extends much further.

Which stage are you?​

 

[quest]

There’s a new stage called the WishyWash stage?

 

[hogg_65]

Those General bucks that made it today will hopefully generate the future for us. Congrats to those that had tags this year. Only 1 more hunt for those General bucks on most units to survive. Can't wait to see the unsuccessful email next year already....

 

[Vanilla]

Lump, you may very well be right about all this deer stuff in the end. Where you’ve been wrong multiple times the last few days is the assumptions you’re making about my motives.

You’ve asked what I think are honest questions though, and I’ve given honest answers.

I know there are more opinions on this stuff than there are tags. That’s why I favor our current setup that allows for all kinds, albeit not perfectly.

 

[middlefork]

If in fact the problem is people killing bucks it seems the easy way to fix it would be put them on a waiting period. Shoot a buck automatic 2 year time out for applying.

Let them decide.

 

[quest]

They pretty much got that now with the waiting time before you can draw again.

 

[elkassassin]

Meat Is Very Valuable!

Especially Wild Game Meats!

Just Add Up What It Costs You!

Yup!

The Entire Cost!

We Could Eat One Of Your PRIME Beef Cows For Less Money Than Hunting A PISSCUTTER That Garners you 35-40 lbs in The Finished Form!

If you don’t think that meat has much value, why do you kill animals?

 

[lif]

Meat Is Very Valuable!

Especially Wild Game Meats!

Just Add Up What It Costs You!

Yup!

The Entire Cost!

We Could Eat One Of Your PRIME Beef Cows For Less Money Than Hunting A PISSCUTTER That Garners you 35-40 lbs in The Finished Form!

Totally agree with the cost. If it was ONLY about meat, I would always hunt close to home and it probably would add up mathematically. But for me and my family, we eat game meat 3 nights a week. It is a staple in our house. We enjoy it more than beef. So meat is always the first goal on the hunt. And for the record, I try to shoot older animals, they seem to have more meat ?

 

[lif]

Hey Elk, my son graduates from high school this year. He eats 40% of the game meat in my house. I promise when he takes off next year , I’ll be a more selective hunter. Go back to eating tag soup. But I can’t promise he won’t be out shooting for his own meat.

 

[elkassassin]

We Like It Too!

I've Never Boasted: I Filled The Freezer With One Deer!

Or:

I Needed The Meat!

Or:

I Didn't Get An Elk So I Shot A Little Buck All To Pieces Cuzz I Needed The Meat!

The List Goes On & On!

Totally agree with the cost. If it was ONLY about meat, I would always hunt close to home and it probably would add up mathematically. But for me and my family, we eat game meat 3 nights a week. It is a staple in our house. We enjoy it more than beef. So meat is always the first goal on the hunt. And for the record, I try to shoot older animals, they seem to have more meat ?

 

[elkassassin]

Can We See An Age Class On Them As Well?

Those General bucks that made it today will hopefully generate the future for us. Congrats to those that had tags this year. Only 1 more hunt for those General bucks on most units to survive. Can't wait to see the unsuccessful email next year already....

 

[middlefork]

They pretty much got that now with the waiting time before you can draw again.

No you missed the "can't apply" part. Totally separate from the draw part.

 

[2lumpy]

Lump, you may very well be right about all this deer stuff in the end. Where you’ve been wrong multiple times the last few days is the assumptions you’re making about my motives.

You’ve asked what I think are honest questions though, and I’ve given honest answers.

I know there are more opinions on this stuff than there are tags. That’s why I favor our current setup that allows for all kinds, albeit not perfectly.

It’s all good between you and I Vanilla. We both want our posterity to have and love the lifestyle, no question about that.

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Lots of selfishness on display around this place.

 

[BIGJOHNT]

After he eats this deer he will try a little harder on the elk hunt next year !!!