Do any of you think that " why and the how" the DWR gives hunting tags to Conservation organizations so they can auction them off for fund raising be looked at a little more? I would like to see how much of that money goes back into benefiting wildlife in our state.
Conservation Orgs and auction permits
- Thread starter nebo12000
- Start date
Utah400Elk
Very Active Member
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- 1,267
Nope. I think Utah so continue down their path. just ot of curiosity, which conservation organization do you think is using Utah conservation tag proceeds outside Utah. I thought it was a requirement that a portion of he proceeds go back to the DWR and the reminder can be used at a later date by the conservation organization as long as the project is approved by DWR? I would think that a true and actual audit would be required every year in efforts to keep things above board. Are you saying that is not happening?
BIGHORNtracks
Active Member
- Messages
- 104
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]1. What IS the reason the tags are given to the conservation groups?
I believe the funds are allocated 10% conservation group who auctions the tag. 90% back to the DWR.
I also believe that the state is supposed to use the money raised, on projects specifically related to the species. The conservation groups can use the money where ever they see fit.
2. Who decides which tags go to which group?
There seems to be an unfair allotment there.
The Rocky mountain goat alliance receives ZERO tags to auction, while goat tags are auctioned at banquets for groups that do not concern them selves at all with mountain goats or mountain goat conservation. they put no effort into improving goat habitat.
Same deal for sheep. Why are sheep tags auctioned at mule deer foundation banquets?
Simple answer, the mule deer foundation wants that 10% off that sheep tag.
Why is the DWR giving it to them? Who knows?
The more tags you have to auction at your banquet, the more 10% cash allotments you have to use at your discretion.
The real sticky business is when the DWR gives tags to "for profit, non conservation groups" Like the expo tags. These are not auction tags.
These are lottery tags, oops, Utah would not like to label them as "lottery" that would be illegal.
Lets go with raffle. Raffles aren't illegal.
Lottery tags that you have to drive to the expo to get a chance at winning.
This is a problem for me.
I don't live in southern utah, but if I did, I would be pissed!
Now I have to drive 4 hours to drop my name in a bucket, and turn around and drive 4 more hours back. No way. Thats criminal.
The expo is a private business. I have no idea why Utah would get involved in allowing private business to profit from public owned tags.
As far as the conservation groups, if the DWR wants to help the conservation groups raise money, it should be done in a manner that is fair and equal to all conservation groups. Money raised by selling sheep tags should go to sheep, not elk or turkey, or ducks.
The DWR could auction all the tags themselves at the DWR. This can be done online, over the phone, via webcast, all of the above.
The DWR would be receiving 100% off the money and put it back into the specific animals that raised the money.
Its up to each person to decide if the current method is ethical. I know there is a lot of hard feelings about the allotment of theses tags.
In the 1980's this system was probably a good way to deal with the tags.
In 2016, with the invention of the internet, I am sure there is a much better way of maximizing the funds raised.
Dinner parties held by foundations are the norm. If we break out of the norm, we may find that there is a better system out there. But for the guys who don't like improvement and change, the old way is worth fighting for.
Also, the conservation groups are going to fight to keep their ability to auction the tags. They want that 10%.
They will also fight to keep the 10% off the tags that have nothing to do with the species their group is founded for. They want that money too.
I believe the funds are allocated 10% conservation group who auctions the tag. 90% back to the DWR.
I also believe that the state is supposed to use the money raised, on projects specifically related to the species. The conservation groups can use the money where ever they see fit.
2. Who decides which tags go to which group?
There seems to be an unfair allotment there.
The Rocky mountain goat alliance receives ZERO tags to auction, while goat tags are auctioned at banquets for groups that do not concern them selves at all with mountain goats or mountain goat conservation. they put no effort into improving goat habitat.
Same deal for sheep. Why are sheep tags auctioned at mule deer foundation banquets?
Simple answer, the mule deer foundation wants that 10% off that sheep tag.
Why is the DWR giving it to them? Who knows?
The more tags you have to auction at your banquet, the more 10% cash allotments you have to use at your discretion.
The real sticky business is when the DWR gives tags to "for profit, non conservation groups" Like the expo tags. These are not auction tags.
These are lottery tags, oops, Utah would not like to label them as "lottery" that would be illegal.
Lets go with raffle. Raffles aren't illegal.
Lottery tags that you have to drive to the expo to get a chance at winning.
This is a problem for me.
I don't live in southern utah, but if I did, I would be pissed!
Now I have to drive 4 hours to drop my name in a bucket, and turn around and drive 4 more hours back. No way. Thats criminal.
The expo is a private business. I have no idea why Utah would get involved in allowing private business to profit from public owned tags.
As far as the conservation groups, if the DWR wants to help the conservation groups raise money, it should be done in a manner that is fair and equal to all conservation groups. Money raised by selling sheep tags should go to sheep, not elk or turkey, or ducks.
The DWR could auction all the tags themselves at the DWR. This can be done online, over the phone, via webcast, all of the above.
The DWR would be receiving 100% off the money and put it back into the specific animals that raised the money.
Its up to each person to decide if the current method is ethical. I know there is a lot of hard feelings about the allotment of theses tags.
In the 1980's this system was probably a good way to deal with the tags.
In 2016, with the invention of the internet, I am sure there is a much better way of maximizing the funds raised.
Dinner parties held by foundations are the norm. If we break out of the norm, we may find that there is a better system out there. But for the guys who don't like improvement and change, the old way is worth fighting for.
Also, the conservation groups are going to fight to keep their ability to auction the tags. They want that 10%.
They will also fight to keep the 10% off the tags that have nothing to do with the species their group is founded for. They want that money too.
The conservation tags are divided up among the groups that qualify for them and want them. Not all groups try to get them. The tags are listed by the DWR according to the value the dwr puts on the tag. Then the groups start bidding on the tags. From the previous three years money that is brought in from the conservation groups the highest amount gets first choice and so on down the line. That's why selling the tags for the greatest amount of money gives you better choices. 10% goes to the conservation group that sells the tag to use for what ever they want. 30% goes straight to the DWR for their use and 60%s put into an account for use in the next year for uses to promote the species of the tag sold. That money is agreed upon by both the division and the conservation group. It must be used in Utah. The DWR performs an audit every year on the conservation groups for the money used. That is why the division has people attend the banquets to know what the tags sold for. The reason that the division does not handle the tags is that the cost of hiring personnel to do this more expensive than having the groups do it.
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Yes the plan is due to come under scrutiny.
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Nebo, if I walked in to your RAC and made a proposal that all
Monies collected from Conservation and Convention permits
We're to be remitted 100% to the UTDWR would you vote yay or nay?
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Monies collected from Conservation and Convention permits
We're to be remitted 100% to the UTDWR would you vote yay or nay?
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Birdman---I have to call baloney to at least one of your statements, mainly the 60% money comment and it's use. Why is there more than 2 or 3 hundred thousand dollars of that 60% not spent each year based on actual DWR records and where is it going since it doesn't seem to be accounted for even though DWR is supposed to audit it each year to insure it's proper usage?
Also, how much do you make each year as a paid employee of SFW, as my investigation that you stated I should do started out with looking into your particular situation and why you seem to know so much. I found a very reliable Utahn that states he/she knows first hand that you are, indeed, a paid employee of the SFW organization. Short of saying how much you make if you choose not to divulge that amount, just give us a yes or no as to whether I am correct in my findings that you are, and have been a paid SFW employee for quite some time.
Also, how much do you make each year as a paid employee of SFW, as my investigation that you stated I should do started out with looking into your particular situation and why you seem to know so much. I found a very reliable Utahn that states he/she knows first hand that you are, indeed, a paid employee of the SFW organization. Short of saying how much you make if you choose not to divulge that amount, just give us a yes or no as to whether I am correct in my findings that you are, and have been a paid SFW employee for quite some time.
Trammer
Active Member
- Messages
- 327
Birdman, As I understand the 10/30/60 split is ripe with abuse. First the 10% retained by the group simply goes to themselves and is dived up anyway they want with no accountability.Some actually finds its way into your wallet doesnt it Birdman? Unlike the rest of us who post out of a love of wildlife. Dont you get paid for posting? Then the 60% that has to be agreed on is full of phony expenses like Project Manager salaries or could include other scams like the almost certain scam that was recently executed under the guise of Water Development for Bighorn Sheep. I forget the exact amount but the outrageous figure of $70,000.00 comes to mind. Under a line item called "Bighorn Sheep Water Development guidelines" when I saw that item and knowing that Adam Bronson the soon to be President of UFNAWS had conducted his Masters Thesis on Water Developments for Bighorn Sheep I though to myself: Hum, Adam must have needed some stop gap income until his new Gravey Train jobs of UFNAWS Pres. and Illegal private benefit recipient Sheep Outfitter kicked in. So, My theory is: I think Adam Bronson may have scammed the DWR/SFW gravey machine into buying a copy of his Thesis for big money.
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Boy, I swear to God, you get more stupid and incoherent with
Each line of text you submit.
Are you in to the cough syrup or just that thick??
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
Each line of text you submit.
Are you in to the cough syrup or just that thick??
"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-15 AT 07:26PM (MST)[p]>Boy, I swear to God, you
>get more stupid and incoherent
>with
>Each line of text you submit.
>
>
>Are you in to the cough
>syrup or just that thick??
>
>
>
>
>"The State of Utah has not
>given BGF anything.
>They have invested in BGF to
>protect their
>interests."
>Birdman 4/15/15
Ain't that the truth! The more he posts the more I shake my head in disbelief and wonder what in the hell this guy drinks or smokes or maybe it's both at the same time! Maybe it's the friggin glue used to anchor all those eyeballs in place at the shop, LOL!
>get more stupid and incoherent
>with
>Each line of text you submit.
>
>
>Are you in to the cough
>syrup or just that thick??
>
>
>
>
>"The State of Utah has not
>given BGF anything.
>They have invested in BGF to
>protect their
>interests."
>Birdman 4/15/15
Ain't that the truth! The more he posts the more I shake my head in disbelief and wonder what in the hell this guy drinks or smokes or maybe it's both at the same time! Maybe it's the friggin glue used to anchor all those eyeballs in place at the shop, LOL!
SnowsNBlues
Member
- Messages
- 39
TOPGUN I highly doubt BIRDY will tell you who he is or if he works for THE DON. And he hides his profile, so maybe he is the DON.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,890
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-15 AT 03:16AM (MST)[p]What you guys don't want to see where your money is spent down to the penny? Decades of the same g group using money from tags saying it's for your deer and all the while there are fewer deer and fewer tags AND YALL CRY ABOUT ONE RINKY DINK EXPO AND 200 tags!
Y'all are the idiots letting them get away with that. If you were the mafia wouldn't you love it when the citizenry stays mad at the jaywalkers while you keep robbing banks?
It isn't about the money and you liars can't even be honest with yourselves anymore. If it was about money you would have been angry at the DWR years before SFW ever came about.
Y'all are the idiots letting them get away with that. If you were the mafia wouldn't you love it when the citizenry stays mad at the jaywalkers while you keep robbing banks?
It isn't about the money and you liars can't even be honest with yourselves anymore. If it was about money you would have been angry at the DWR years before SFW ever came about.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,590
>The conservation tags are divided up
>among the groups that qualify
>for them and want them.
> Not all groups try
>to get them. The
>tags are listed by the
>DWR according to the value
>the dwr puts on the
>tag. Then the groups
>start bidding on the tags.
> From the previous three
>years money that is brought
>in from the conservation groups
> the highest amount gets
>first choice and so on
>down the line. That's
>why selling the tags for
>the greatest amount of money
>gives you better choices. 10%
>goes to the conservation group
>that sells the tag to
>use for what ever they
>want. 30% goes straight
>to the DWR for their
>use and 60%s put into
>an account for use in
>the next year for uses
>to promote the species of
>the tag sold. That money
>is agreed upon by both
>the division and the conservation
>group. It must be
>used in Utah. The
>DWR performs an audit every
>year on the conservation groups
>for the money used. That
>is why the division has
>people attend the banquets to
>know what the tags sold
>for. The reason that
>the division does not handle
>the tags is that the
>cost of hiring personnel to
>do this more expensive than
>having the groups do it.
>
Perhaps in 1990 this was true, but setting up online auction sites aren't that expensive. The REASON is exactly what we think it is, the groups get themselves into the system(look at the WB) then give out welfare to themselves. Utah government, in this case wildlife is run like the mafia. Once your a "made" man/group, your set for life.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>among the groups that qualify
>for them and want them.
> Not all groups try
>to get them. The
>tags are listed by the
>DWR according to the value
>the dwr puts on the
>tag. Then the groups
>start bidding on the tags.
> From the previous three
>years money that is brought
>in from the conservation groups
> the highest amount gets
>first choice and so on
>down the line. That's
>why selling the tags for
>the greatest amount of money
>gives you better choices. 10%
>goes to the conservation group
>that sells the tag to
>use for what ever they
>want. 30% goes straight
>to the DWR for their
>use and 60%s put into
>an account for use in
>the next year for uses
>to promote the species of
>the tag sold. That money
>is agreed upon by both
>the division and the conservation
>group. It must be
>used in Utah. The
>DWR performs an audit every
>year on the conservation groups
>for the money used. That
>is why the division has
>people attend the banquets to
>know what the tags sold
>for. The reason that
>the division does not handle
>the tags is that the
>cost of hiring personnel to
>do this more expensive than
>having the groups do it.
>
Perhaps in 1990 this was true, but setting up online auction sites aren't that expensive. The REASON is exactly what we think it is, the groups get themselves into the system(look at the WB) then give out welfare to themselves. Utah government, in this case wildlife is run like the mafia. Once your a "made" man/group, your set for life.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
