Corner crossing case

I personally have found many corner pin survey markers over the years but I can tell you if you are simply using your phone with OnX or a handheld Garmin you‘ll wander around sometimes for an hour or more all the while trespassing trying to find that corner marker. If you are going to attempt to try it then do it well before the season and have those corners marked both in your gps and with some marking flagging or you WILL BE TRESPASSING. Trying to cross a corner without a corner pin marker is sheer trespassing.

Both Garmin and OnX have important disclaimers you need to know about using their products for pinpoint accuracy. This from the Garmin website.
”Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally, users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 meters (16 to 33 feet) under normal conditions.”

Commercial grade GPS have a slightly better accuracy rate.

Also remember even the Lawyer for the defendants was very careful to explain to the Judge what these hunters were relying upon. It was the fact they had preseason scouted and located that corner survey pin.
“The hunters did not rely on the GPS device, which they “understood to only be accurate to 30 feet.” Rather they “sought out the corner marker at every corner of public land before crossing the corner using their fence ladder,” the motion states.”
www.wyomingnews.com

Corner-crossing defendants move for dismissal of trespass charges

An attorney for one of four hunters charged with criminal trespass in a corner-crossing case in Carbon County has asked a judge to dismiss the count against his client and
www.wyomingnews.com www.wyomingnews.com
 
In my day job I get to work with all different types of people across the State of Wyoming including ranchers and adult ranchers' children. And have heard numerous times come from their mouths My or Our Leased State Section or My or Our Leased BLM Section... And by no means am I saying that all the ranchers are like this by any means... Had one tell me how sum hunters came in and sit up an antelope blind on my section of Leased BLM land then after they left, he gathers up sum cows and ran them down his leased blm ground and the blind got smashed to the dirt in few hours....
 
highfastflyer said:
I personally have found many corner pin survey markers over the years but I can tell you if you are simply using your phone with OnX or a handheld Garmin you‘ll wander around sometimes for an hour or more all the while trespassing trying to find that corner marker. If you are going to attempt to try it then do it well before the season and have those corners marked both in your gps and with some marking flagging or you WILL BE TRESPASSING. Trying to cross a corner without a corner pin marker is sheer trespassing.

Both Garmin and OnX have important disclaimers you need to know about using their products for pinpoint accuracy. This from the Garmin website.
”Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally, users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 meters (16 to 33 feet) under normal conditions.”

Commercial grade GPS have a slightly better accuracy rate.

Also remember even the Lawyer for the defendants was very careful to explain to the Judge what these hunters were relying upon. It was the fact they had preseason scouted and located that corner survey pin.
“The hunters did not rely on the GPS device, which they “understood to only be accurate to 30 feet.” Rather they “sought out the corner marker at every corner of public land before crossing the corner using their fence ladder,” the motion states.”
www.wyomingnews.com

Corner-crossing defendants move for dismissal of trespass charges

An attorney for one of four hunters charged with criminal trespass in a corner-crossing case in Carbon County has asked a judge to dismiss the count against his client and
www.wyomingnews.com www.wyomingnews.com
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Listening to your bs is exhausting to say the least
 
Bookhead said:
Listening to your bs is exhausting to say the least
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Ok Karen. Let us know how your trespassing tickets go……
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Conrad8899 said:
In my day job I get to work with all different types of people across the State of Wyoming including ranchers and adult ranchers' children. And have heard numerous times come from their mouths My or Our Leased State Section or My or Our Leased BLM Section... And by no means am I saying that all the ranchers are like this by any means... Had one tell me how sum hunters came in and sit up an antelope blind on my section of Leased BLM land then after they left, he gathers up sum cows and ran them down his leased blm ground and the blind got smashed to the dirt in few hours....
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It sounds like the ranchers are more entitled than Wyoming NR's. Total Joke.
 
Savage110 said:
It sounds like the ranchers are more entitled than Wyoming NR's. Total Joke.
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A hundred years ago I believe it made sense……….it’s not 1922 and very little in Wyoming or any Western State is the same.

What worked in 1922 don’t work today.

Not in the factories and not in the fields.

The time will come when this checker board access issue will change, in one way or another.

I believe enough has changed that it needs to be dealt with, now. Seems like it’s going to get enough pressure to force a change……. not saying I’ll like it but it needs a make over, for better or worse.
 
N_Corey said:
I don’t believe you can take possession of public land through adverse possession which would be a fence line that isn’t in the correct place like you can for a bordering private land piece. Also each state has different laws on how long it takes to use adverse possession and it’s generally the responsibility of the person trying to take the land to prove that the item like a fence has been there long enough. In my opinion it’s a pretty shady way to acquire extra land.
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In Utah, whether somebody paid property taxes is a key component of adverse possession... which almost never happens.

Fence law is easier because both parties have treated it as an agreed-upon boundary.

Many surveyors will go off an old fence long before they'll rely upon a random point in a field based on metes and bounds measured from another point identified by metes and bounds.
 
Old fence lines are not considered property boundaries with almost all government agencies. It is prohibited by statute in most cases. Property held by the federal government, a state, or a MUNICIPAL CORPORATION cannot be taken by adverse possession.
 
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Bookhead said:
Alloted huh? You ever hiked far enough to cross a corner? Your mouth runs enough to have crossed every corner along the i80 corridor that's for certain. It's not illegal so not sure what you mean by not alloted more made up gibberish I guess
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Yes A LOT. LMAO.….. Trespassing across Private Property is still ILLEGAL in Wyoming, This Corner hopping case won‘t change that………:eek::devilish::eek::devilish::eek::devilish:
 
highfastflyer said:
Yes A LOT. LMAO.….. Trespassing across Private Property is still ILLEGAL in Wyoming, This Corner hopping case won‘t change that………:eek::devilish::eek::devilish::eek::devilish:
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We've been talking about corner crossing why are you pulling tresspassing out of thin air? Oh that's rite cause that's what you do
 
Bookhead said:
We've been talking about corner crossing why are you pulling tresspassing out of thin air? Oh that's rite cause that's what you do
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Maybe you missed that part of the conversation from above, not surprised from someone who thinks committing a crime and not getting caught is ok. Corner hopping may or may not be legal but being 100 feet off and TRESPASSING while attempting to corner hop is still ILLEGAL in Wyoming, this case won’t change that.
 
More Disgusting news coming from this case. That ranch has some serious perverts working there and some thieves……

“Ranch employees spied on them to the point they couldn’t relieve themselves in private, stalked the group, harassed them in their tent, swore, yelled and intimidated them and caused one deer they were pursuing to run off, according to the allegations.

The bowhunters killed two elk and one deer but said one bag of game meat – the “highest tied” in a hanging cache — went missing. At one point ranch manager Steve Grende followed them slowly for about a half mile as they walked, they wrote. He was in a pickup within about 30 yards while they were on public land, their statements say. https://wyofile.com/hunters-allege-illegal-harassment-in-corner-crossing-case/
 
Anyone who shed hunts or has a tag should put this ranch on blast and cross in the exact same spot. It would be interesting what the DA would do! Also record any encounter with the ranch employees.
 
I thought usually with these blm grazing leases the ranchers don’t get an all access pass to drive around wherever they want on BLM land but maybe I’m wrong.
 
N_Corey said:
I thought usually with these blm grazing leases the ranchers don’t get an all access pass to drive around wherever they want on BLM land but maybe I’m wrong.
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They do on their BLM and Forest Service leases any place I’ve lived. So does everyone else.
 
"If you are going to attempt to try it then do it well before the season and have those corners marked both in your gps and with some marking flagging or you WILL BE TRESPASSING."

Did you just give me permission to shed hunt anywhere I want because I don't have a weapon and it's not "hunting season"?
 
highfastflyer said:
Corner hopping may or may not be legal but being 100 feet off and TRESPASSING while attempting to corner hop is still ILLEGAL in Wyoming, this case won’t change that.
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I think most of us agree that missing a corner by 100' is simple trespassing and not "corner crossing".
The ones that don't are the guys who post on facebook that they got a ticket for corner crossing but never seem to show their gps tracks.
 
WapitiBob said:
I think most of us agree that missing a corner by 100' is simple trespassing and not "corner crossing".
The ones that don't are the guys who post on facebook that they got a ticket for corner crossing but never seem to show their gps tracks.
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If there are no markings, and corner hoping, for the theory of this argument is legal, how exactly are they going to prove your trespassed? The burden of proof would seem to fall on them.

Why would you show your GPS tracks? Unless they're video taping you I'm not sure how they can prove you didn't cross at the corner. Once again working under an assumption that crossing the "airspace" of the corner is legal.

These arguments seem to fall under the logic of the accused proving his innocence.
 
When I told the warden I was going to corner cross he told me to keep a track so I could show I crossed at the corner. I'd rather have a track showing I crossed where my gps showed a corner vs trying to convince him I knew where it was by guessing. Landowner says I trespassed and has no proof other than "I know where the corner is", vs my gps showing I didn't.
 
WapitiBob said:
When I told the warden I was going to corner cross he told me to keep a track so I could show I crossed at the corner. I'd rather have a track showing I crossed where my gps showed a corner vs trying to convince him I knew where it was by guessing. Landowner says I trespassed and has no proof other than "I know where the corner is", vs my gps showing I didn't.
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If you get caught in the process turn on your GPS and walk back out right across the corner. If you don't tell the owner and the warden to **** off.
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
If there are no markings, and corner hoping, for the theory of this argument is legal, how exactly are they going to prove your trespassed? The burden of proof would seem to fall on them.

Why would you show your GPS tracks? Unless they're video taping you I'm not sure how they can prove you didn't cross at the corner. Once again working under an assumption that crossing the "airspace" of the corner is legal.

These arguments seem to fall under the logic of the accused proving his innocence.
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In Wyoming the Game and Fish law states you must know where you are at, at all times. If you cross a corner without a survey pin, I can show you where you trespassed if you save the track and try and use that as your defense…..In Wyoming the burden is on the hunter to know for 100% certain he isn't trespassing and a recreational GPS isn't accurate enough. It is up to the individual to know whether or not they are on private or public land. This is why a good defense is crossing a certified and surveyed corner pin…Many times your GPS may be off by a hundred (100) feet or more.

If you trespass and mistakenly miss the corner they write many citations for those blatant types of trespass. This is listed as one of the top 10 violations by Game and fish.

This is a direct quote from the Game and Fish website.

”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing

With the dismissal of these charges some landowners may have their land surveyed and set up Trail cams and video surveillance and probably place sand in a 15 foot diameter around the corner connected to Wifi activation if available, much of Carbon county in the desert areas have it, the elk mountain area iffy. He has plenty of Ranch hands available though.

Both Garmin and OnX have important disclaimers you need to know about using their products for pinpoint accuracy. This from the Garmin website.

”Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally, users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 meters (16 to 33 feet) under normal conditions.”

Commercial grade GPS have a slightly better accuracy rate.

Also remember even the Lawyer for the defendants was very careful to explain to the Judge what these hunters were NOT relying upon GPS. It was the fact they had preseason scouted and located that corner survey pin.

“The hunters did not rely on the GPS device, which they “understood to only be accurate to 30 feet.” Rather they “sought out the corner marker at every corner of public land before crossing the corner using their fence ladder,” the motion states.”
 
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Considering the warden told me to video if a landowner showed up, because hunter harassment is illegal, I’m probably not going to tell him to pound sand.
That and every one of almost a dozen I’ve interacted with were awesome.
 
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Hunters were seriously harassed in the Elk Mountain case and the Game Warden was there and did NOTHING about it. Relying upon Game and Fish to help you out and claim harassment isn’t very reliable it seems these days……..
 
highfastflyer said:
In Wyoming the Game and Fish law states you must know where you are at, at all times. If you cross a corner without a survey pin, I can show you where you trespassed if you save the track and try and use that as your defense…..In Wyoming the burden is on the hunter to know for 100% certain he isn't trespassing and a recreational GPS isn't accurate enough. It is up to the individual to know whether or not they are on private or public land. This is why a good defense is crossing a certified and surveyed corner pin…Many times your GPS may be off by a hundred (100) feet or more.

If you trespass and mistakenly miss the corner they write many citations for those blatant types of trespass. This is listed as one of the top 10 violations by Game and fish.

This is a direct quote from the Game and Fish website.

”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing

With the dismissal of these charges some landowners may have their land surveyed and set up Trail cams and video surveillance and probably place sand in a 15 foot diameter around the corner connected to Wifi activation if available, much of Carbon county in the desert areas have it, the elk mountain area iffy. He has plenty of Ranch hands available though.

Both Garmin and OnX have important disclaimers you need to know about using their products for pinpoint accuracy. This from the Garmin website.

”Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally, users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 meters (16 to 33 feet) under normal conditions.”

Commercial grade GPS have a slightly better accuracy rate.

Also remember even the Lawyer for the defendants was very careful to explain to the Judge what these hunters were NOT relying upon GPS. It was the fact they had preseason scouted and located that corner survey pin.

“The hunters did not rely on the GPS device, which they “understood to only be accurate to 30 feet.” Rather they “sought out the corner marker at every corner of public land before crossing the corner using their fence ladder,” the motion states.”
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How exactly are you going to show somone where they tresspassed without a survey pin? Are you the keeper of the worlds most accurate gps and everyone else just has a dumb gps?
 
Bookhead said:
How exactly are you going to show somone where they tresspassed without a survey pin? Are you the keeper of the worlds most accurate gps and everyone else just has a dumb gps?
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Are you willing to merely rely upon a handheld GPS? I can show you where you trespassed if you rely upon that to cross a corner as it’s accuracy is Never guaranteed to be any closer than 33 feet, add onto that the OnX map disclaimer and you have another built in error, possibly up to 100 feet or more. If these charges are dismissed I would expect many of these rich landowners to have their corners surveyed and trail cams and video surveillance set up. As the Wyoming hunting law states,
”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing

Crossing a corner is at best a poor guess so you’re blatantly breaking the law by not Knowing for 100% fact you are on Public lands if merely relying upon a handheld GPS.
 
highfastflyer said:
Are you willing to merely rely upon a handheld GPS? I can show you where you trespassed if you rely upon that to cross a corner as it’s accuracy is Never guaranteed to be any closer than 33 feet, add onto that the OnX map disclaimer and you have another built in error, possibly up to 100 feet or more. If these charges are dismissed I would expect many of these rich landowners to have their corners surveyed and trail cams and video surveillance set up. As the Wyoming hunting law states,
”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing

Crossing a corner is at best a poor guess so you’re blatantly breaking the law by not Knowing for 100% fact you are on Public lands.
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Like I asked before how are you gonna show me?
 
Bookhead said:
Like I asked before how are you gonna show me?
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The County Sheriff will walk with you with a surveyor who carries a Commercial grade GPS. They would then show you how far off you were, likely a hundred feet or more if merely using a handheld and also another built in error OnX map error rate.
 
highfastflyer said:
The County Sheriff will walk with you with a surveyor who carries a Commercial grade GPS. They would then show you how far off you were, likely a hundred feet or more if merely using a handheld and also another built in error OnX map error rate.
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Oh so you won't be showing me anything that's clears it up. And who is gonna pay for this survey service? It's pretty spendy
 
Bookhead said:
Oh so you won't be showing me anything that's clears it up. And who is gonna pay for this survey service? It's pretty spendy
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If you want me to walk with you, I just might, maybe you can bring coffee and donuts and sing songs for us……..I’m sure you may Not enjoy it though after disproven……..
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highfastflyer said:
In Wyoming the Game and Fish law states you must know where you are at, at all times. If you cross a corner without a survey pin, I can show you where you trespassed if you save the track and try and use that as your defense…..In Wyoming the burden is on the hunter to know for 100% certain he isn't trespassing and a recreational GPS isn't accurate enough. It is up to the individual to know whether or not they are on private or public land. This is why a good defense is
Are you willing to merely rely upon a handheld GPS? I can show you where you trespassed if you rely upon that to cross a corner as it’s accuracy is Never guaranteed to be any closer than 33 feet, add onto that the OnX map disclaimer and you have another built in error, possibly up to 100 feet or more. If these charges are dismissed I would expect many of these rich landowners to have their corners surveyed and trail cams and video surveillance set up. As the Wyoming hunting law states,
”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing

Crossing a corner is at best a poor guess so you’re blatantly breaking the law by not Knowing for 100% fact you are on Public lands if merely relying upon a handheld GPS.
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You clearly don't know anything about statistics of the accuracy of GPS. I promise you if there is a corner pin in the ground GPS is accurate enough to find it. And as stated above if there is no pin how are they going to prove where you are? The hunter may be responsible for his location, but his location has to be known.
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
You clearly don't know anything about statistics of the accuracy of GPS. I promise you if there is a corner pin in the ground GPS is accurate enough to find it. And as stated above if there is no pin how are they going to prove where you are? The hunter may be responsible for his location, but his location has to be known.
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I’m in full agreement if you find the corner survey pin you are going to be fine if these charges are dismissed and if the Legislature doesn’t trump the whole procedure and pass a law stating it’s Illegal. Many of these rich landowners will pay to have their land surveyed and set up trail cam and surveillance videos with recording and some even with WiFi activation where possible. The Elk Mt. Ranch has a ranch manager and at least 4 ranch hands patrolling. If you are not 100% certain you know where you are at, you are hunting illegally.
 
highfastflyer said:
I’m in full agreement if you find the corner survey pin you are going to be fine if these charges are dismissed and if the Legislature doesn’t trump the whole procedure and pass a law stating it’s Illegal. Many of these rich landowners will pay to have their land surveyed and set up train cam and surveillance videos with recording and some even with WiFi activation where possible. The Elk Mt. Ranch has a ranch manager and at least 4 ranch hands patrolling. If you are not 100% certain you know where you are at, you are hunting illegally.
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That has nothing to do with what we're talking about were talking about crossing a corner without a pin. You'd be a great politician though
 
From the garmin website btw:

The GPS location accuracy of Garmin handhelds is around 3 meters (10 feet), 95% of the time. This means, at any given time, your handheld will save your location within 3 meters of your actual location.
 
Bookhead said:
That has nothing to do with what we're talking about were talking about crossing a corner without a pin. You'd be a great politician though
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No Thanks, and I sincerely hope the legislature doesn’t get involved but crossing a corner without a survey pin is obvious trespassing and even the Defense attorney was very clear to point that out to the Judge as he knew it as a Fact. “The hunters did not rely on the GPS device, which they “understood to only be accurate to 30 feet.” Rather they “sought out the corner marker at every corner of public land before crossing the corner using their fence ladder,” the motion states.”
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
From the garmin website btw:

The GPS location accuracy of Garmin handhelds is around 3 meters (10 feet), 95% of the time. This means, at any given time, your handheld will save your location within 3 meters of your actual location.
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This off the Garmin website. Garmin® GPS receivers are accurate to within 15 meters (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally, users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 meters (16 to 33 feet) under normal conditions.https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=aZc8RezeAb9LjCDpJplTY7

Onx maps has a further error rate if using that.
 
No, he's not relying on the GPS as his defense because they knew where the survey pin was. This does not mean that using GPS to locate a corner is "an obvious trespassing" violation. As implied by Garmin if I randomly throw out a 10 foot gangway where I think the GPS is telling me the corner is, 95% of the time I'm not going to be trespassing. This doesn't seem like obvious trespassing to me. If you walk to where the GPS says the corner is and jump more times than not you won't hit private land.
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
No, he's not relying on the GPS as his defense because they knew where the survey pin was. This does not mean that using GPS to locate a corner is "an obvious trespassing" violation. As implied by Garmin if I randomly throw out a 10 foot gangway where I think the GPS is telling me the corner is, 95% of the time I'm not going to be trespassing. This doesn't seem like obvious trespassing to me. If you walk to where the GPS says the corner is and jump more times than not you won't hit private land.
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The Defense attorneys knew that the Judge wouldn’t accept jumping a corner without having crossed a survey pin so they were VERY CAREFUL to point that out. Realize they didn’t just cross one corner they actually crossed two but in both cases they crossed over a surveyed corner pin marker. Tell the Judge you relied upon a Garmin guaranteed 49 feet accuracy 95% of the time to cross an unsurveyed corner and he’ll laugh at your defense. Good luck with that strategy, maybe you’ll get a lenient Judge.
 
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highfastflyer said:
The Defense attorneys knew that the Judge wouldn’t accept jumping a corner without having crossed a survey pin so they were VERY CAREFUL to point that out. Realize they didn’t just cross one corner they actually crossed two but in both cases they crossed over a surveyed corner pin marker. Tell the Judge you relied upon a Garmin guaranteed 49 feet accuracy 95% of the time to cross an unsurveyed corner and he’ll laugh at your defense. Good luck with that strategy, maybe you’ll get a lenient Judge.
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You're just fabricating information
 
hornkiller said:
So does wy game and fish I personally witnessed 3 of them bust out onx!
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Why not? It’s a useful tool when properly utilized. Trying to use it for pinpoint accuracy with a handheld GPS or smartphone isn’t a tool a Game Warden would utilize to corner cross with…….I’ve never met a Game Warden who corner crosses………:sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
 
How is the accuracy any different if you’re crossing a corner or walking a property line. I’d think if F&G used it as a reliable way of traversing the public private borders it’d be considered reliable enough to cross a corner but maybe I’m missing something.
 
highfastflyer said:
Why not? It’s a useful tool when properly utilized. Trying to use it for pinpoint accuracy with a handheld GPS or smartphone isn’t a tool a Game Warden would utilize to corner cross with…….I’ve never met a Game Warden who corner crosses………:sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
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I've met a deputy who does. Is that good enough for ya?
 
N_Corey said:
How is the accuracy any different if you’re crossing a corner or walking a property line. I’d think if F&G used it as a reliable way of traversing the public private borders it’d be considered reliable enough to cross a corner but maybe I’m missing something.
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You're not missing anything just low foolish flyer blowing hot air again
 
highfastflyer said:
Why not? It’s a useful tool when properly utilized. Trying to use it for pinpoint accuracy with a handheld GPS or smartphone isn’t a tool a Game Warden would utilize to corner cross with…….I’ve never met a Game Warden who corner crosses………:sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
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You don't need pinpoint accuracy to cross the "airspace" of a corner. That's the whole fing point!!! The corner itself is an infinitesimally small spot that doesn't actually exist. As such if you operate under the premise that the corner can't be crossed because a person can't cross an infinitely small point that's one thing. But it appears as though crossing "airspace" in Wyoming is legal. Therefore you don't have to cross an infinitely small point which is impossible. You just have to not come in physical contact with the private land. This, contrary to your assertions, is very possible.
 
highfastflyer said:
OK great so you have 3 meter accuracy 95% of the time and when your boot prints in the sand show you crossed 15 feet off the actual landowner survey corner and he has you on webcam tell the Judge how accurate your GPS receiver is.
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If there is no marker what is the Webcam gonna show? You sure do like to make up things too prove your point. Very childish
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
You just have to not come in physical contact with the private land. This, contrary to your assertions, is very possible.
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DING….DING….DING…. WE HAVE A WINNER…….You can’t do that without a surveyed corner especially when you rely on accuracy 95% of the time you might be right.

D4EE86A6-E728-4094-8876-0F58940289CB.jpeg
 
Bookhead said:
If there is no marker what is the Webcam gonna show? You sure do like make up things too prove your point. Very childish
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The boot prints in the sand you left and the trail cam shows where you TRESPASSED. What is surely childish is relying upon a known inaccurate device and breaking the law……..
 
highfastflyer said:
Maybe he baited you in to a false corner. He also likely won’t mark it but will have numerous trail cams in the area. That’s the whole point is to catch you trespassing, not spoon feed you…..
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It's illegal to move survey markers. How is the judge going to react to evidence of a crime as proof of a crime?
 
(a) A person is guilty of altering landmarks if, with intent to destroy or deface the mark on a monument, landmark or bearing-tree designating the corner or boundary of a tract of land, he knowingly:

(i) Displaces the monument or landmark;

(ii) Defaces or alters the mark; or

(iii) Breaks, cuts down or removes the monument, landmark or bearing-tree.

(b) Altering landmarks is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than six (6) months, a fine of not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750.00), or both.
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
(a) A person is guilty of altering landmarks if, with intent to destroy or deface the mark on a monument, landmark or bearing-tree designating the corner or boundary of a tract of land, he knowingly:

(i) Displaces the monument or landmark;

(ii) Defaces or alters the mark; or

(iii) Breaks, cuts down or removes the monument, landmark or bearing-tree.

(b) Altering landmarks is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than six (6) months, a fine of not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750.00), or both.
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You miss the point entirely, not surprising coming from you. If a landowner hires a surveyor on his own and then sets up trail cameras and a video surveillance and doesn’t mark the corner on the surface, but maybe has an electronic signal emitter underground and has your boot prints and smiling face crossing 15-49 feet off that mark, he knows you trespassed and did not cross the actual corner.
 
highfastflyer said:
You miss the point entirely, not surprising coming from you. If a landowner hires a surveyor on his own and then sets up trail cameras and a video surveillance and doesn’t mark the corner on the surface, but maybe has an electronic signal emitter underground and has your boot prints and smiling face crossing 15-49 feet off that mark, he knows you trespassed and did not cross the actual corner.
Click to expand...
But there's a corner marker from the survey
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
No. Trespassing is a crime. They either did it or they didn't. Attempted trespassing is nothing but a figment of your imagination.
Click to expand...
What is certainly a figment of your Imagination is thinking you are stepping over a corner accurately 95% of the time when the disclaimer even states there is an error rate of 49 feet. Not only an Imagination but a DELUSION……
 
Electronic signal transmitters underground in the middle of Wyoming. And fraudulent surveys. You watch too much tv man. But remember GPS doesn't work...
 
highfastflyer said:
What is certainly a figment of your Imagination is thinking you are stepping over a corner accurately 95% of the time when the disclaimer even states there is an error rate of 49 feet. Not only an Imagination but a DELUSION……
Click to expand...
I think the error rate keeps getting bigger. I won't need GPS all the ranchers are spending their money on surveys and trail cams.
 
Highfastflyer
By your comments I’m assuming you believe that the property owners in this case should have exclusive access to all of the checkerboard public land within the ranch? I’d question how stepping directly across a corner or using a ladder as in this case because the ranch was knowingly restricting access to public land does anything to hurt the landowners rights to their land. This is all about greed in my opinion.
 
So, hypothetically, if I head to Wyoming with the intent of crossing a property line and trespassing but I accidentally step right over the top of the corner, did I trespass?
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
Electronic signal transmitters underground in the middle of Wyoming. And fraudulent surveys. You watch too much tv man. But remember GPS doesn't work...
Click to expand...
If you don‘t think these rich landowners will veraciously patrol their lands and have them surveyed you’re fooling yourself. I suggest you watch a little more Law & Order to as you may need it…….:sick::devilish::sick::devilish:
 
highfastflyer said:
But you might never know it’s there, it might simply be a point he knows of but didn’t mark it so as to let the public know and that is why he knows you trespassed.
Click to expand...
If it isn’t surveyed and pinned the owners guess on where the corner is definitely isn’t any more accurate than any gps or onX location. I’d be willing to bet in court the gps or onX location would win that argument.
 
N_Corey said:
If it isn’t surveyed and pinned the owners guess on where the corner is definitely isn’t any more accurate than any gps or onX location. I’d be willing to bet in court the gps or onX location would win that argument.
Click to expand...
Correct that's what I've been trying to tell the guy for half a day now
 
N_Corey said:
If it isn’t surveyed and pinned the owners guess on where the corner is definitely isn’t any more accurate than any gps or onX location. I’d be willing to bet in court the gps or onX location would win that argument.
Click to expand...
Maybe he surveyed it and placed an underground mark with an emitter and a webcam and video surveillance camera……
 
Bookhead said:
Correct that's what I've been trying to tell the guy for half a day now
Click to expand...
No, that defense won’t hold up as we know many Western states both Montana and Wyoming state it is the hunters responsibility to know 100% of the time, not 95% of the time with accuracy of 49 feet where they are at.
”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing
 
highfastflyer said:
Maybe he surveyed it and placed an underground mark with an emitter and a webcam and video surveillance camera……
Click to expand...
Who is he? Is the rancher a licensed surveyor. Surveyors are bound by legal standards for our profession. If we're hired to mark corners we leave monuments and record their locations. And as you know it's illegal to move or deface the monument.
 
highfastflyer said:
No, that defense won’t hold up as we know many Western states both Montana and Wyoming state it is the hunters responsibility to know 100% of the time, not 95% of the time with accuracy of 49 feet where they are at.
”Wyoming law states that no person shall enter upon private property to hunt, fish, or trap without the permission of the owner or person in charge of the property. It is the responsibility of the person fishing or hunting to know if the land is public or private.” https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Fishing-Update/Fishing-Access-What-is-trespassing
Click to expand...
But if you don't know, and are intending to trespass, but don't actually trespass, did you trespass?
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
Who is he? Is the rancher a licensed surveyor. Surveyors are bound by legal standards for our profession. If we're hired to mark corners we leave monuments and record their locations. And as you know it's illegal to move or deface the monument.
Click to expand...
Perhaps he is but doesn’t mark it but he records your boot prints being 15 feet off the corner and has webcam footage of it.
 

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