Does anyone scout any more?

Idahoron

Idahoron

Very Active Member
Messages
1,980
I am just curious? It seems like everyone is putting in for tags that they have no idea about in state and out of state. Then they come on here and ask for a hand out.This isn't happening with just hunting also with fishing. People asking for exact locations.
The ones I have to laugh at the most is "My daughter has a tag" Or "My Wife has a tag" Trying to gt something for nothing.
SO the question is do you ever scout? Let me guess its a long way away and you just don't have the time. Or Job requirements won't let you scout. Or family obligations are such that you just cant.
 
It's no wonder I cant draw a tag....in all seriousness I had the same thoughts. Every other post on the major hunting forums.
 
If you read about every post is from a person posting for the first time. and asking about great tags. I am stunned by the number of posts from guys wanting the easy way. Then after they get their easily gained info they spread it like wild fire on every forum wanting to make them selves look like a bad a$$ hunter that has them dialed in.
Remember guys the info you share even in private will end up public.
 
It happens every year but everyone has a choice of whether to help or not. It definitely makes it tougher for me to share any info when you see someone create a new account on every hunting forum they can find to ?scout? a hunt they just drew. Most of the time you'll never hear back from them either.
 
With Eastmans, Huntin' Fool, and other services, people just broadcast their applications for a chance to chase something. I think us Idahoans are a little jaded because we all get to hunt big game every year. I don't blame NRs for applying here, but the "drew a tag, never been to the unit" questions are ridiculous.

I wish NRs understood that this isn't a state with PP, and you don't just sit idly by until you draw and then everyone tells you which canyon the big bucks/bulls hang in so you can go shoot one and post it up on this site for everyone to ogle over.

I have never put in for a tag unless I have been to the unit, or have a personal acquaintance with boots on the ground experience. Wish NRs, and residents, would do the same, but it's not going to change, especially with the tag squeezes in surrounding states.
 
+1. It's getting tough with guys like randy newberg or born and raised showing people how to hunt every year in multiple states. The Information Age is killing us. Keeping realistic hunting goals is getting harder and harder with pictures of big bucks and bulls everywhere. I'm guilty as well. I don't see these posts getting smaller in numbers in the years to come.
 
I've killed a lot of Bulls in Idaho in OTC areas over the last 15 years. And while hunting areas my grandfather and dad have hunted dating back to the 70?s I sure as hell have had to scout my boots off to consistently locate elk in any of the 4 elk zones we have put bulls on the ground. Summer trips to put miles on, figuring out the landscape, and fall trips before season to put eyes on elk.

Best way to ruin a unit/ or area is to tell other people. You can't trust people to keep their mouth shut. No matter what anyone says, the social media and forum attention is just too enticing for these people not to spew pictures and information trying to look like some avid hunter. If you find an area that holds elk, keep it a SECRET. Being in my late 20?s and having a lot of years of hunting ahead, there is no way I would want to jeopardize an area I or my close friends and family have worked so hard to figure out.

It's offensive seeing all these ?forum hunters? expecting us to hand them a productive elk area or priceless knowledge like it's nothing. If you don't know the area, or aren't willing to put in the time and effort. Don?t buy the tag or put in for the hunt. You are just taking away opportunity from someone who cares enough to put in the work.

-Trevor
 
Just curious why someone would scout a out of state unit that they realistically will probably never draw? If someone just likes to hunt and is applying for 20 or 30 tags a year, should they have pre scouted all of those tags? That's ridiculous. Everytime I draw a tag out of my home area, I typically reach out for information on forums/social media, simply because it's available. It doesn't mean someone isn't out scouting and putting on miles.
Also I drew the NR unit 46 archery elk tag, if anyone has any info? (And yes I have been on the unit) Thanks.
 
Look what's gone on in our small valley, you have first lite headquarters, last week BHA full draw film festival, the Meat Eater hunted here followers. These mountain units are just getting pummeled from archery to the never ending overlapping seasons. I like the saying I google earthed it. I'm teaching my the daughters the old way to hunt, which is an all year process, from calfing, to scouting, to harvesting older age class animals, then to predator hunting, to shed collecting to following the same animals year in and year out. I learned to keep my mouth shut on sharing info except with serious friends that share the same passion, otherwise a years worth of work could be ruined in a second from drunk talk. This is a great topic , and I assume all of you that responded are serious about scouting and good for you. In reality I'm glad not many people scout, it sure is nice to see wildlife with no one around.
 
Unreal.....so you're that guy... with a whopping 3 posts. No I dont have info, you put in for it, go scout it, spend some time with boots on the ground. Its YOUR tag, go do some work.
 
Just got back from scouting a new unit/zone. Found some elk, 2 bears, and lots of deer. Caught my personal best native trout (24"). I am excited about it because nobody else wants to hunt it. I like the solitude. I, like most people on here, very rarely give out ANY information unless its a buddy. I cringe every time somebody throws up a new thread asking about a certain unit. Then 10 people spill their guts about it. That used to be me about 6 years ago, never again.
 
I'll still give general information about a unit to those who ask but rarely share exact spots. If someone want to know about weather, roads, gas stations, etc, I'm willing to help if they ask politely. Drawing a good tag doesn't guarantee anyone success. In the last 25 years I've hunted close to 30 units in Idaho and at least 10 units in other states. I would estimate I received assistance from others on about 1/2 the units I've hunted. When I'm looking for information about a unit I'm mostly looking for general information about the unit not exact spots to hunt. It is much more satisfying to find success in a spot you find yourself than one someone gave you. Learning to find spots yourself also makes you a much better hunter.
 
I've had people give me some exact spots to hunt and I've generally found that information to not be near as useful as other information about a new area.
 
Yeah, I'm that guy. The non resident that all you cry ass residents can complain about. I'll put time in maybe run into some good people that might give me a few pointers, might not. I may or may not kill an elk. But one things for certain you'll be on here complaining. Thanks for your thoughts though.
 
You?re going to have your work cut out for you to fill the 46 archery bull tag on a decent bull if you don't hire the outfitter in the unit.
 
Why is that exactly? I understand outfitter 's typically kill the majority of the better animals. With a unit that's over 80% public, they don't control much of land. Are most the elk on private?
 
>I, like most
>people on here, very rarely
>give out ANY information unless
>its a buddy. I
>cringe every time somebody throws
>up a new thread asking
>about a certain unit.
>Then 10 people spill their
>guts about it. That
>used to be me about
>6 years ago, never again.


I used to be more helpful as well. Not anymore. Got burned once on a public land duck spot that was a guaranteed greenhead limit. Word spreads too quickly in this info era.

Here's an example. I was up in 32a this spring glassing for bears, for fun, no tag. I run into a guy on the road that was starting a stalk on a "monster chocolate." He went on to tell me he had "passed on 41 bears throughout the weekend."

He ends up killing the bear. It truly was a giant black bear, awesome that he got it done. He posts it on FB with a detailed caption. I had 1 mutual FB friend with him. My mutual friend "liked" his photo, so the photo pops up on my feed. One of his trophy shots in the FB post showed a unique shaped meadow. That meadow is only visible from about a 10 foot section of the road, which is where our conversation occurred. I knew EXACTLY where it was. One 20 second conversation with a guy on the road and I could have walked you into the carcass.

Even though that tag is very hard to draw, there are still dozens of other tag holders that you wouldn't want to be competing with after possibly waiting 15 years to draw that tag. Goes to show that word spreads quick. ESPECIALLY otc stuff, tell no one. Don't respond to these new threads asking for hand outs. It's competitive enough as it is these days.
 
>I used to help. Now I
>see the same guys spreading
>the info I gave them!
>No more!!


+1

Ran into a guy on the mountain 5 years ago that said "a friend of a friend got some info off of a hunting forum about this area."

I'm the fool that gave the friend of a friend the info. It was a mediocre raghorn spot with a 2800' climb before light, so I wasn't heart broken. But due to my idiocy, I helped at least 3-4 guys know about it. Probably 25 guys know by now.

It's especially important on Hunt Talk, as threads there are getting thousands of views these days.
 
I hate to tell all of you this but this problem was happening way before web forums. I take a buddy to a great spot and then once I can't go and he invites a buddy because he doesn't want to go by himself and it goes on and on. Web forums help accelerate this and even worse is just population growth all around the west. To many people not enough honey holes. People just can't keep a secret so don't expect to keep a spot secret for long.
 
I'm not much of a scouter guy. I start scouting usually the first day of the season. I grew up in the Boise valley and hunted deer in 39 back in the early 80's. It was so crazy good that I took 12 different people deer hunting for their first time in a single season. All shot a deer. I learned more from that year about people and notellum creek then any other time in my life. I'm still amazed when I take someone out to "my spot" to find them and others using it. As I have matured, I have decided I only hunt with Family and a few others, that I help them with their hunt in their place. I also have given info on here that I probably shouldn't have. But the info I have given is old places I never plan to hunt again. Even the post on here asking what unit did you put in for gets the famous Notellum creek. Sure wish I knew now back in the 80's, oh how much different I would have went about my hunting. I think I have hunted in each and everyone of the units in Idaho. But I always say when asked abut specific is my info is dated. Last year I shot a nice 6 point in Idaho. But my info about that area is dated and would be of no use to anyone.

Fun to complain once in awhile.

I too like what was stated above only hunt my spots. As soon as someone tells me they have a killer spot in a place I plan to hunt, I tell them I don't want to hear about it. Because if I find it on my own then I will be happy to hunt it. If it is Joe's spot then I wont hunt it.

Now GPS locations in the ocean are way different for me. And maybe shouldn't be, but I'm happy to run 30 plus miles out in the ocean to drop a lead weight on a Halibut. Even if it is Joe's spot. :)

DZ
 
This thread needs to keep on going. I learned long ago how bad folks are about keeping their mouths shut. If someone is offended because folks don't hand out info "because they drew a tag", too bad for them. Their wives and daughters drew the tag because they overloaded the system with their apps not knowing what they are getting in to. The sooner guys shut up (there is no valid reason to share info with someone that you don't know), the better off we all will be. I wonder how many folks put in for Idaho as a back up just because they read that everyone else on the forums is doing it?
 
I could have started this thread because it represents my sentiments exactly. Not gonna lie and say I've never gotten a tip or help before because I have. But I've never been back to those areas by myself or with others unless the original tipster was with me. I've been burned by "friends" too many times. It's sad but I have to hunt my best spots alone nowadays and I have to access them secretly and only my wife knows where I am in case I don't come home. Some guys like Tyler just don't get it. It's the age of the entitlement freeloader. They grew up having everything handed to them without earning it. Why stop now? What amazes and frustrates the crap out of me is all the guys who feel the need to be the "hero" who publicly help out all the freeloaders on an open forum. You wanna give access to your own private land? Great! But don't screw others who have worked hard at scouting and learning a public area because your ego needs a boost and you need to show someone you don't even know what a great hunter you think you are by disclosing your secret spot. Cuz, chances are, it ain't just YOUR secret!!!!!
 
I wish they taught young hunters not to return to other people's hunting spots in hunter education.

It's amazing how many people don't get it. I will never return to a spot someone takes me. It sucks, because a good friend of mine has taken me to some killer horn hunting spots. He invites me occasionally, but other than that, those drainages are off limits because I didn't think to look there without him taking me.
 
Hi, first time poster, will you help me find a deer or elk for my daughter or wife, we live in Florida and just apply for tags through a service, not asking for honey holes just a general spot
 
I don't mind helping people out if they draw that once every 10 years tag. I've even asked for general info before and others have helped me. I prefer to pm instead of posting help online though.
 
Mallards only, I'm sure you know me enough to call me a "free loader". I can't really say anything about you, simply because I don't know you. God forbid someone ask for any sort of help, or they're an entitled freeloader.
 
I'll add...PLEASE don't post a YouTube video showing the area for everyone to see. I went scouting on Saturday and already found someones tent ready to get after the bucks. Expecting many more due to a YouTube video clearly showing where they are.
 
Maybe my situation is different, but I drew a super tag. Have known about it for about 5-6 weeks now. Already been out scouting 4 time for a total of 7 days and put 800 miles on my truck on those trips. I guess it just depends on how much time you got and how serious you take the tag.
 
>Mallards only, I'm sure you know
>me enough to call me
>a "free loader". I can't
>really say anything about you,
>simply because I don't know
>you. God forbid someone ask
>for any sort of help,
>or they're an entitled freeloader.
>


Well, based on your posts(all 6 of 'em), I'm willing to bet good money I'm right.
 
>>Mallards only, I'm sure you know
>>me enough to call me
>>a "free loader". I can't
>>really say anything about you,
>>simply because I don't know
>>you. God forbid someone ask
>>for any sort of help,
>>or they're an entitled freeloader.
>>
>
>
>Well, based on your posts(all 6
>of 'em), I'm willing to
>bet good money I'm right.
>

Yeah, you're probably right. That's how I also make judgements on people. Posts from monster muleys. Behind the ole keyboard, But in real life I'm kind of a ##### and would never say anything to anybody 's face. Plus I sleep good at night knowing how tough I sounded.
 
This thread has a lot of truth to it but it is a little unfair to assume everyone that ask for help is a freeloading millennial. The internet has made it easier to search for out of state areas. Likely that is what brought many of us to this sight. I do my initial scouting in huntin fool, epic, and eastmans. Once I have drawn a unit out of state I like to reach out and learn some of the logistics of the hunt. The last thing I want to do is make a long drive and tear my trailer up because I took a road that all the locals know is unpassable. I have flown out to scout Arizona and Utah and made a 13 hour drive to scout Nevada...boots on the ground. These trips were about finding camp spots, learning roads, and hopefully seeing a few animals. I certainly don't scout enough to create a "hit list" or name individual animals. No spot, canyon, stream, or trail should ever be mentioned by name in a open forum. It is just not fair to other hunters that use the area.
 
Jetsled, I posted a few years ago about this issue and got blasted by a couple of guys, with 3-4 posts about how rude I was, telling them to put the work in like everyone else does. Reason why I don't post anything anymore and don't share pics of sheds or animals I have taken.
 
I think it depends on each individual situation and the rarity of drawing the tag.
I apply for sheep tags in eight states every year. Have I scouted every one of them? Absolutely not. And it's not going to stop me from continuing to try and if I ever do draw a sheep tag I will for sure be asking for anyone's opinion on the unit, if they would like to share.
Someone asking for detailed info for a general unit is always comical to me. Who would give that up?

Most situations probably fall in between these two examples. I have gone back and forth in regards to giving out info over the years. I had stopped for a while but then a MM member helped me out in a big way and I still have not forgot it. I have tried to help whenever I can after that.
 
>I think it depends on each
>individual situation and the rarity
>of drawing the tag.
>I apply for sheep tags in
>eight states every year. Have
>I scouted every one of
>them? Absolutely not. And it's
>not going to stop me
>from continuing to try and
>if I ever do draw
>a sheep tag I will
>for sure be asking for
>anyone's opinion on the unit,
>if they would like to
>share.
>Someone asking for detailed info for
>a general unit is always
>comical to me. Who would
>give that up?
>
>Most situations probably fall in between
>these two examples. I have
>gone back and forth in
>regards to giving out info
>over the years. I had
>stopped for a while but
>then a MM member helped
>me out in a big
>way and I still have
>not forgot it. I have
>tried to help whenever I
>can after that.
No doubt this is true. Hard to draw tags would be the exception as nobody is giving away anyone's honey-hole as it can't be hunted year-in and year-out by the same guys. I think most of us are referring to the guys who come on here and want to come hunt an OTC unit and are wanting the locals or others with knowledge of the unit they picked by throwing darts at a dart board to give them intel.
 
I scout every year even if I don't draw a tag I go look at units for next years draw in between looking at the general season units. This year I didn't draw anything so I will be doing twice the amount of scouting.
 
I am not talking about OTC tags only.
Look at this Idaho forum and read about every post. My Daughter drew this awesome tag. Or because of work I can't scout my awesome tag. Or My father has this tag and I just have to help him.

If you have the ability to find the best hunts in the state to apply for the draw then scout. Don't come on here and try to tug at heart strings by saying my daughter has Polio and her dying wish is to kill a 425 bull in the hardest draw in the state. then you go to their FB page and the girl is a semi pro soccer player. Guys lie to get info and I am seeing guys here falling for it.

These guys have a ton of money and are coming in from out of state to go on our best hunts and locals hand them the keys to the city.
 
I've asked for help and have been asked for help on here many times and it doesn't bother me at all. I see it this way. It takes years and years to draw a lot of tags. A lot are basically once in a lifetime tags they are so hard to draw. So why would I want to scout a tag that I might never draw? I also figure that if I do draw that someone that knows just how hard the tag is to draw will be willing to help if he has had the tag before because he knows he will probably never draw it again.

I'm more annoyed with the guys that come on here and make posts about guys wanting help. If you don't want to help don't help. If you don't want to see it don't click on it. It's really that easy.


"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-19 AT 06:26PM (MST)[p]If a guy that has 1500 posts asks me for help that's one thing but when a guys first post is I drew this once in a lifetime tag F them. Hell even guys that have 400 or 500 posts are not the guys I am talking about. it's these A holes that show up here make a first post and expect the keys to the city. If you want to give them the keys to the city that great. But if YOU ARE GETTING HELP FROM OTHERS YOU BETTER NOT BE GIVING THE KEYS TO SOMEONE ELSE'S CITY.
I have helped a lot of people I mean a HELL of a lot of people. I have told guys where to get bucks that were BC bucks. Told them right where to go, a non resident. But the fact was he was not posting he needed the info with his very first post.
In your mind so you walk into Cabelas and tell the first person you see that the hunting is great in xyz drainage of unit what ever?
 
>
>I'm more annoyed with the guys
>that come on here and
>make posts about guys wanting
>help. If you don't
>want to help don't help.
> If you don't want
>to see it don't click
>on it. It's really
>that easy.
>
>
What you have to understand about this is that people DO learn how to act from posts they read on a forum....good or bad. Most will do as they wish but when they read 50 posts regarding what you lose by giving info to anyone that asks, maybe they will say, "Hey, I never thought about that!" There are really so many negative consequences from passing out info. Sure, maybe a guy has a sheep tag and you send him to your deer spot because you've seen sheep there. Now he goes and hunts for his sheep and sees the bucks that brought you top that area and freely passes that info on to guys that he knows hunt big bucks. Spot lost! It really isn't as simple as pulling into a campground that is now packed and CLOSING YOUR EYES because you don't want to see all those other hunters in your spot!
>
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-19 AT 10:16PM (MST)[p]It's funny how these type of sites work. The guys that ask for specific unit info 90% of the time are new guys. They get the info, go hunt and are never heard from again. The guys who DO stick around rarely ask for info, because they know what it takes to get it in the first place.

Most of the long term guys here know what they can and can't share and with whom. Sure, posts are just a number, a higher number doesn't make you better than you or I; but it's a damn good indicator if a guys gonna stick around, PM a reply back on how the hunt went, compare notes, allow the guy who gave info to learn from their experience to understand the unit better and then maybe receive a payback favor some day down the line.

If it's a really limited tag, I don't see as much of an issue. But the new guys that come on here asking for OTC or easier to draw unit info couldn't find a spot to hunt in the first place, what makes you think they will branch out and find their own spots? Will they branch out? Or will they / their friends / their family pound the country you lead them to?
 
>
>>
>>I'm more annoyed with the guys
>>that come on here and
>>make posts about guys wanting
>>help. If you don't
>>want to help don't help.
>> If you don't want
>>to see it don't click
>>on it. It's really
>>that easy.
>>
>>
>What you have to understand about
>this is that people DO
>learn how to act from
>posts they read on a
>forum....good or bad. Most will
>do as they wish but
>when they read 50 posts
>regarding what you lose by
>giving info to anyone that
>asks, maybe they will say,
>"Hey, I never thought about
>that!" There are really so
>many negative consequences from passing
>out info. Sure, maybe a
>guy has a sheep tag
>and you send him to
>your deer spot because you've
>seen sheep there. Now he
>goes and hunts for his
>sheep and sees the bucks
>that brought you top that
>area and freely passes that
>info on to guys that
>he knows hunt big bucks.
>Spot lost! It really isn't
>as simple as pulling into
>a campground that is now
>packed and CLOSING YOUR EYES
>because you don't want to
>see all those other hunters
>in your spot!
>>

Good point.
 
>I am not talking about OTC
>tags only.
>Look at this Idaho forum and
>read about every post. My
>Daughter drew this awesome tag.
>Or because of work I
>can't scout my awesome tag.
>Or My father has this
>tag and I just have
>to help him.
>
>If you have the ability to
>find the best hunts in
>the state to apply for
>the draw then scout. Don't
>come on here and try
>to tug at heart strings
>by saying my daughter has
>Polio and her dying wish
>is to kill a 425
>bull in the hardest draw
>in the state. then you
>go to their FB page
>and the girl is a
>semi pro soccer player. Guys
>lie to get info and
>I am seeing guys here
>falling for it.
>
>These guys have a ton of
>money and are coming in
>from out of state to
>go on our best hunts
>and locals hand them the
>keys to the city.
I definitely see your point. I'll even take it one step further and I'm sure I'll get torched for it because it's not a popular opinion amongst many. Personally, I have a problem with all the guys who live vicariously through their wife, kids and every remote family member who apply for tags in their name for hard to draw units and then go out and basically do all the hunting themselves and let their 12-yr old daughter pull the trigger. These kids don't have a clue about the caliber of animal they're hunting or even respect the value of the tag or hunt. It chaps my hide every year when I hear or read about all the women and kids on their first hunt who went out and killed the bull/buck of a lifetime because their husband/father put them in the draw so they themselves could basically hunt the tag under their name. I know it's perfectly legal and there's no way to prevent it but I still have a problem with it nonetheless. And while I've digressed a little bit from the theme of the thread, the reason I raise the point is that, oftentimes,these are the very guys coming on here asking for valuable intel on a unit.
Flame on. I don't care.
 
>I definitely see your point.
>I'll even take it one
>step further and I'm sure
>I'll get torched for it
>because it's not a popular
>opinion amongst many. Personally,
>I have a problem with
>all the guys who live
>vicariously through their wife, kids
>and every remote family member
>who apply for tags in
>their name for hard to
>draw units and then go
>out and basically do all
>the hunting themselves and let
>their 12-yr old daughter pull
>the trigger. These kids
>don't have a clue about
>the caliber of animal they're
>hunting or even respect the
>value of the tag or
>hunt. It chaps my
>hide every year when I
>hear or read about all
>the women and kids on
>their first hunt who went
>out and killed the bull/buck
>of a lifetime because their
>husband/father put them in the
>draw so they themselves could
>basically hunt the tag under
>their name. I know
>it's perfectly legal and there's
>no way to prevent it
>but I still have a
>problem with it nonetheless.
>And while I've digressed a
>little bit from the theme
>of the thread, the reason
>I raise the point is
>that, oftentimes,these are the very
>guys coming on here asking
>for valuable intel on a
>unit.
>Flame on. I don't care.
>

You mean like this? :D

https://youtu.be/m4JJR6xj30o
 
>>I definitely see your point.
>>I'll even take it one
>>step further and I'm sure
>>I'll get torched for it
>>because it's not a popular
>>opinion amongst many. Personally,
>>I have a problem with
>>all the guys who live
>>vicariously through their wife, kids
>>and every remote family member
>>who apply for tags in
>>their name for hard to
>>draw units and then go
>>out and basically do all
>>the hunting themselves and let
>>their 12-yr old daughter pull
>>the trigger. These kids
>>don't have a clue about
>>the caliber of animal they're
>>hunting or even respect the
>>value of the tag or
>>hunt. It chaps my
>>hide every year when I
>>hear or read about all
>>the women and kids on
>>their first hunt who went
>>out and killed the bull/buck
>>of a lifetime because their
>>husband/father put them in the
>>draw so they themselves could
>>basically hunt the tag under
>>their name. I know
>>it's perfectly legal and there's
>>no way to prevent it
>>but I still have a
>>problem with it nonetheless.
>>And while I've digressed a
>>little bit from the theme
>>of the thread, the reason
>>I raise the point is
>>that, oftentimes,these are the very
>>guys coming on here asking
>>for valuable intel on a
>>unit.
>>Flame on. I don't care.
>>
>
>You mean like this? :D
>
>https://youtu.be/m4JJR6xj30o

Ya that was not good. I bet that was her last time she picked up a gun.
 
I AGREE!!

And.... YES, Ron, some of us DO scout. It's (almost) as much fun as the hunt.

BUT then .......... despite the # of posts it shows for me............ I've been on this site for years, although I've never asked for info, because I 'play' outside all the time.

SOME ....... admit to never having been in the unit and (other sites) don't even know what kind of fish (sucker, carp, or squawfish) they have.


Within the shadows, move softly.
(Long-time member; somehow I was 'lost' after have logged 10,000+ posts.)
 
>>I definitely see your point.
>>I'll even take it one
>>step further and I'm sure
>>I'll get torched for it
>>because it's not a popular
>>opinion amongst many. Personally,
>>I have a problem with
>>all the guys who live
>>vicariously through their wife, kids
>>and every remote family member
>>who apply for tags in
>>their name for hard to
>>draw units and then go
>>out and basically do all
>>the hunting themselves and let
>>their 12-yr old daughter pull
>>the trigger. These kids
>>don't have a clue about
>>the caliber of animal they're
>>hunting or even respect the
>>value of the tag or
>>hunt. It chaps my
>>hide every year when I
>>hear or read about all
>>the women and kids on
>>their first hunt who went
>>out and killed the bull/buck
>>of a lifetime because their
>>husband/father put them in the
>>draw so they themselves could
>>basically hunt the tag under
>>their name. I know
>>it's perfectly legal and there's
>>no way to prevent it
>>but I still have a
>>problem with it nonetheless.
>>And while I've digressed a
>>little bit from the theme
>>of the thread, the reason
>>I raise the point is
>>that, oftentimes,these are the very
>>guys coming on here asking
>>for valuable intel on a
>>unit.
>>Flame on. I don't care.
>>
>
>You mean like this? :D
>
>https://youtu.be/m4JJR6xj30o
Yes, like THAT!! Loser!!!
 
Two examples....number one, In a place far away, long, long ago, I worked in an archery shop. A guy comes in talking about his recent trip out of state on which he killed a pretty good 26" buck. He only mentioned the state and the last major city that he went through. He talked of seeing elk and close to a hundred deer a day. After he left I pulled out some maps and began doing some research. I called the local fish and game office and spoke with a biologist. I told him what this guy saw and asked him if he had any thoughts as to where that might be. He told me that there was only one place in his area that had that numbers of deer and had elk. I focused on that area and by considering the altitude that he talked about, I picked out a camp ground. I hunted there and had great success. It wasn't until a couple of seasons later, while talking to this hunter that I told him the name of the camp ground that he hunted out of. He was pissed because I knew and even more so when I told him how I figured it out. now, when I talk to guys about spots, I learn more from what they don't tell me than from what they do.

Story two... back in the eighties, Larry D. Jones and Dwight Schuh put out a video about hunting bucks in Nevada. In that video, they panned some ridges and showed some Mt. Goats. It was simple to call a biologist and ask the range of the Mt. Goats in that part of the state. Bingo, we knew we were within a couple miles of their spot. What a lot of guys don't realize is that the stuff they put on social media does not go away. They might say one thing on one site, something a little different on another. They think that they are leaving out important info, but a smart person can glean through a lot of info and begin making connections that lead them to good spots. Remember, a guy doesn't need to hunt the same ridge as you to impact your area. Anyone who has been at this for awhile can take general info about a place and find the honey holes once they add their own scouting.
 
>Two examples....number one, In a place
>far away, long, long ago,
>I worked in an archery
>shop. A guy comes in
>talking about his recent trip
>out of state on which
>he killed a pretty good
>26" buck. He only mentioned
>the state and the last
>major city that he went
>through. He talked of seeing
>elk and close to a
>hundred deer a day. After
>he left I pulled out
>some maps and began doing
>some research. I called the
>local fish and game office
>and spoke with a biologist.
>I told him what this
>guy saw and asked him
>if he had any thoughts
>as to where that might
>be. He told me that
>there was only one place
>in his area that had
>that numbers of deer and
>had elk. I focused on
>that area and by considering
>the altitude that he talked
>about, I picked out a
>camp ground. I hunted there
>and had great success. It
>wasn't until a couple of
>seasons later, while talking to
>this hunter that I told
>him the name of the
>camp ground that he hunted
>out of. He was pissed
>because I knew and even
>more so when I told
>him how I figured it
>out. now, when I talk
>to guys about spots, I
>learn more from what they
>don't tell me than from
>what they do.
>
>Story two... back in the eighties,
>Larry D. Jones and Dwight
>Schuh put out a video
>about hunting bucks in Nevada.
>In that video, they panned
>some ridges and showed some
>Mt. Goats. It was simple
>to call a biologist and
>ask the range of the
>Mt. Goats in that part
>of the state. Bingo, we
>knew we were within a
>couple miles of their spot.
>What a lot of guys
>don't realize is that the
>stuff they put on social
>media does not go away.
>They might say one thing
>on one site, something a
>little different on another. They
>think that they are leaving
>out important info, but a
>smart person can glean through
>a lot of info and
>begin making connections that lead
>them to good spots. Remember,
>a guy doesn't need to
>hunt the same ridge as
>you to impact your area.
>Anyone who has been at
>this for awhile can take
>general info about a place
>and find the honey holes
>once they add their own
>scouting.


In my mind that is fair game. Piecing together the clues and checking it out is a patt of the game. I have done that my self with not only hunting but also fishing. That is fair game.

The guys that come on here with 1 post and start panhandleing trying to get a freebie hunt is bull #####. Then they dont give a report back. Or even a thank you.
 
I get the aggravation about guys coming on a forum, brand new first time poster, and asking for info on a unit. I was kind of that guy last year. It happens on all hunting and fishing forums. I feel like it is all about how you go about asking though. I asked for some help last year on my dads elk tag and was overwhelmed with the responses I got. Truly am grateful even though he didn't fill his tag we made some lasting memories. I think the difference is this was a hard to draw tag, not an OTC unit. Nothing more annoying when someone asks for help or handout when they haven't put the work in themselves.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-19 AT 11:04AM (MST)[p]Ok so you prefer the behind the back steal your spot method over the straight up ask for help or tips method. Got it!

I'm ok with either method for the record, just kinda found that funny
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jul-22-19
>AT 11:04?AM (MST)
>
>Ok so you prefer the behind
>the back steal your spot
>method over the straight up
>ask for help or tips
>method. Got it!
>
>I'm ok with either method for
>the record, just kinda found
>that funny


If someone can piece together enough to think they can take a spot that is fair game. it can be a part of scouting. You think a spot is the one and you go check it out. Nothing behind the back that is just smart.
 
Detective work is different than "freebies." You have to do the detective work and recon yourself in that situation. In some respects, that's part of scouting. Way different than a handout.
 
Is this what everyone is talking about?
From an earlier post.

Hi All,

I finally drew an Idaho Elk tag for Oct. 1 in 37A. I am beyond thrilled for this hunt. I am a self taught, and have been cutting my teeth on elk and deer hunting the last 4 years in Idaho. Love every second of it and have had some of the best experiences of my life in the mountains of central and eastern Idaho. The only bummer is I am out of state working for the next 6 months so will have very little time to get out and scout (BUT I WILL).

I like to get as far away from people as possible backpack style hunting for days at a time. Not looking for any honey holes but any good pointers from guys who have archery hunted the area or know the area? I have been scouring maps and have a few areas that look good would just like to bounce them off of someone who knows the area. Thanks in advance!

He has 2 prior posts and wants someone else to do the work for him. Says he will be out of state for 6 months, kinda hard to scout from out of state.
PB
 
>Two examples....number one, In a place
>far away, long, long ago,
>I worked in an archery
>shop. A guy comes in
>talking about his recent trip
>out of state on which
>he killed a pretty good
>26" buck. He only mentioned
>the state and the last
>major city that he went
>through. He talked of seeing
>elk and close to a
>hundred deer a day. After
>he left I pulled out
>some maps and began doing
>some research. I called the
>local fish and game office
>and spoke with a biologist.
>I told him what this
>guy saw and asked him
>if he had any thoughts
>as to where that might
>be. He told me that
>there was only one place
>in his area that had
>that numbers of deer and
>had elk. I focused on
>that area and by considering
>the altitude that he talked
>about, I picked out a
>camp ground. I hunted there
>and had great success. It
>wasn't until a couple of
>seasons later, while talking to
>this hunter that I told
>him the name of the
>camp ground that he hunted
>out of. He was pissed
>because I knew and even
>more so when I told
>him how I figured it
>out. now, when I talk
>to guys about spots, I
>learn more from what they
>don't tell me than from
>what they do.
>
>Story two... back in the eighties,
>Larry D. Jones and Dwight
>Schuh put out a video
>about hunting bucks in Nevada.
>In that video, they panned
>some ridges and showed some
>Mt. Goats. It was simple
>to call a biologist and
>ask the range of the
>Mt. Goats in that part
>of the state. Bingo, we
>knew we were within a
>couple miles of their spot.
>What a lot of guys
>don't realize is that the
>stuff they put on social
>media does not go away.
>They might say one thing
>on one site, something a
>little different on another. They
>think that they are leaving
>out important info, but a
>smart person can glean through
>a lot of info and
>begin making connections that lead
>them to good spots. Remember,
>a guy doesn't need to
>hunt the same ridge as
>you to impact your area.
>Anyone who has been at
>this for awhile can take
>general info about a place
>and find the honey holes
>once they add their own
>scouting.


+1

One slightly wide angled kill photo in conjunction with google earth, and bingo.
 
I like to help when it's warranted. I needed help at one point and appreciated those that gave it to me. Help is not, "go to X drainage". Help is simple things like "focus on water", "get high, and when you think you are high enough, get higher", etc.

I have been on here a bit and every year I get PM'd, particularly on units such as 45 and 40. I don't mind being more particular on a unit like 45, mostly because it's highly limited and my knowledge is just enough to get someone started. I've been at it long enough to have those little favors paid back. This is all done via PM, even regarding limited areas. It's still a bit of a judgement call based on the individuals demeanor.

I do get everyone's point about those particular type of folks who know it all, want to focus on drawing tags and expect a short cut to where the big guys hang out. Those guys can pound sand. But, there are some folks who need a little help like we all did, but it gets harder every day to feel confident in who you can give that help to so that it doesn't come back to bite you.

I will end by saying I feel this forum has become simply too anti-NR. Some of the hardest hunting guys I run into on the mountain are NR's who have hunted the same areas for generations. I respect many of them and if I have to share a mountain with someone, which I would prefer to have by myself, it's about their effort, ethics, and willingness to be reasonable with others, not about their license plates. There's give and get in everything in life.

That said, I'm happy for me and mine to pay more as residents to make sure F&G isn't biased toward NR's due to their higher fee's. Idaho residents have a great value in my opinion. As frustrating as my "not drawn" notices are, I'm awful glad for the opportunities here.
 
>I like to help when it's
>warranted. I needed help
>at one point and appreciated
>those that gave it to
>me. Help is not,
>"go to X drainage".
>Help is simple things like
>"focus on water", "get high,
>and when you think you
>are high enough, get higher",
>etc.
>
>I have been on here a
>bit and every year I
>get PM'd, particularly on units
>such as 45 and 40.
> I don't mind being
>more particular on a unit
>like 45, mostly because it's
>highly limited and my knowledge
>is just enough to get
>someone started. I've been
>at it long enough to
>have those little favors paid
>back. This is all
>done via PM, even regarding
>limited areas. It's still
>a bit of a judgement
>call based on the individuals
>demeanor.
>
>I do get everyone's point about
>those particular type of folks
>who know it all, want
>to focus on drawing tags
>and expect a short cut
>to where the big guys
>hang out. Those guys
>can pound sand. But,
>there are some folks who
>need a little help like
>we all did, but it
>gets harder every day to
>feel confident in who you
>can give that help to
>so that it doesn't come
>back to bite you.
>
>I will end by saying I
>feel this forum has become
>simply too anti-NR. Some
>of the hardest hunting guys
>I run into on the
>mountain are NR's who have
>hunted the same areas for
>generations. I respect many
>of them and if I
>have to share a mountain
>with someone, which I would
>prefer to have by myself,
>it's about their effort, ethics,
>and willingness to be reasonable
>with others, not about their
>license plates. There's give
>and get in everything in
>life.
>
>That said, I'm happy for me
>and mine to pay more
>as residents to make sure
>F&G isn't biased toward NR's
>due to their higher fee's.
> Idaho residents have a
>great value in my opinion.
> As frustrating as my
>"not drawn" notices are, I'm
>awful glad for the opportunities
>here.

While we don't know each other personally I know you from the forum and you know me. If you needed info I would gladly share. No issue! The problem is the guys that come on with the first post asking for the keys to the city.
 
you must be more computer savvy than me. LOL I've often wondered if there was a way to do this in today's digital world. I know you can search for pics using search engines. Are you able to search for a particular landscape the same way, short of scrolling through Google Earth and looking at all the terrain in 3D yourself?
 
I'll admit it, when I first started hunting big game out of state I was one of those people. I quickly learned from all you guys that you have to put in the work and be willing to share info to receive info. Therefore I dedicate at least a week to scouting and I try to help people that have helped me. I understand people work, i fortunately have a job that allows me to take a lot of time off. What people need to realize is something as simple as "go hunt abc creek trail there are good buck numbers up their" may have taken someone 20 years to figure out. That's 20 years of hard ass work. Ask specific questions on arera's you've researched. Or help someone out that may not have the time to scout, but has the local knowledge. That how I try to contribute.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-19 AT 08:03PM (MST)[p]Touchy subject for sure. These guys that come on here with no posts looking for info crack me up. I especially like the it's my Wife's or Daughters hunt etc.

I've helped a few guys on here and other sites who've been around a while. I drew a pretty nice Elk tag here a few years back and someone actually gave me the keys to the kingdom via PM. He put me in a honey hole with spot on directions and even hand drawn maps to where he hunts.
I actually did not hunt that area as we found another spot with allot of Bulls.

I've not shown the place to anyone out of respect to him and I wont take anyone there or give it up. Loose lips ruin spots.

I moved away from San Diego many years ago and gave up some of my best spots this year in a couple zones I'll never hunt again.

I'll hopefully be drawing some really good Elk tags in the next few years out of state. I'll be looking for some help then too.
 
I think what makes people mad is some dude gets on here first post trolls for info, some even complain that no one will help them and then after the hunts over they are as gone as quickly as they showed up
 
It's kinda funny how some people react to this situation. I tend to help people all the time in Idaho, AZ, or Texas. I am in a similar case now with my Utah antelope tag right now. It is a new hunt, very little info out there on it, the biologist is not real helpful cause they don't get to spend that much time in the field, it is about one million acres of public ground that is difficult to get around in and glass animals. I bought all the maps, researched the Utah DWR info, made 3 trips and then asked a couple general questions.

Two answers were a push in the right direction, thatI had already decided on, and a PM to check another road I had not gotten to yet. Thanks went to those guys, and the hunts will be in my HAC for this year.
 
Yes, but realize that when you "help" somebody, the person you have helped may take 5 people into a spot that some of us hunt every year. So, you may decide "I am not hunting Idaho again". But your intel may end up screwing up somebody else's hunt for years to come.

Now, I think we all have our "gray areas", LE areas that take 15 years to draw, etc. But overall it is getting harder and harder to find and keep honey holes.

JMO.
 
And it is so easy for this person to give up the spot to someone else because they didn't earn it. Personally, I have enough respect for the wildlife that if I am done using a spot, let the wildlife live in peace until someone else works their way in.
 
>And it is so easy for
>this person to give up
>the spot to someone else
>because they didn't earn it.
>Personally, I have enough respect
>for the wildlife that if
>I am done using a
>spot, let the wildlife live
>in peace until someone else
>works their way in.


BINGO!!
 
>Yes, but realize that when you
>"help" somebody, the person you
>have helped may take 5
>people into a spot that
>some of us hunt every
>year. So, you may
>decide "I am not hunting
>Idaho again". But your
>intel may end up screwing
>up somebody else's hunt for
>years to come.
>
>Now, I think we all have
>our "gray areas", LE areas
>that take 15 years to
>draw, etc. But overall
>it is getting harder and
>harder to find and keep
>honey holes.
>
>JMO.

Haha! I have one of those "15 years to draw" tags this year, on a hunt which includes several units or portions thereof, some of which I know like the back of my hand and other places I've never stepped in to, doing lots of map and access research, scouting lots, have helped other worthy MM posters, subscribe to DIY and OTC principles, but yet fear tthe scorn of even thinking about posting!

46-1. October 1 blackpowder.
Do I stick with what I know or do I need to check out the unit 47 part? PMs only please.

Flame on.

Powder
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 08:54PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 08:53?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 08:52?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-19 AT 08:50?PM (MST)

This is just silly. Hunters like to hunt. There's only so much opportunity in state. So you apply to the best place you can get out of state. Pretty logical huh?

And why do people go in blind. Id venture to say not everyone's rich or doesn't have the time to take a trip out of state and scout everywhere they are interested in hunting.

This is the information age and to not use all the available info you can to get the beat hunt you can is just being dim witted.

Just an awful thread filled with illogical reasoning, jealousy, and bitterness.

And guess what! This is America and how people choose to hunt or help is up to them and them only. Complain all you want. It's your right. But it's not gonna change anything ???
 
I actually thought this site was meant for hunters to talk to other hunters and help each other out??? Right??? If not then why are we here??
 
I scout for sure. When I have hunted Idaho I burned lots of fuel to go up and learn the areas I wanted to hunt. I think more than anything is the people that think they are entitled to help, resident or non-resident just surprises me. I have asked before and helped before but anymore figuring it out is way more fun than asking. I totally agree with whomever it was that complained about the people who think that it's okay to apply their grandma who doesn't give a hoot about hunting for the trophy units, does anything other than screw other hard working men and women hunters out of a once in a lifetime experience. It's downright selfish. Unfortunately thanks to Instagram and the inherent ##### measuring nature of hunting everyone thinks they need to tip over a 180incher every fall and they don't care who they screw over or what laws they have to break to do it.
 
I have a little to say. I'm newer as far as being a member on here, but I've lurked and read for a while.

I'm also guilty of asking about an area I won't be able to scout. Between all my hunting here in UT, work, and my family, you're correct I don't have time or funds.

But... I feel like the way I go about it is different. All I've asked for are opinions on my own plans I've come up with by researching and spending hours upon hours going over maps.
In return I've offered to help on any and all UT hunting info I can.

I don't expect anyone to help, nor would I ever ask for specific locations, or share info I received from somebody on here. But I also don't get my panties twisted from somebody asking.
 
I have been on both sides of this scenario. I've asked.. and I've answered. Sometimes people are helpful, sometimes not, sometimes I am helpful, sometimes I stay quiet. No reason to get all worked up. One thing I think I have realized though is that all this "honey hole" talk is mostly crap. I have hunted OTC units where everybody and their mother talks about the unit online, and still with a little hiking I leave 99% of the crowd behind, and have had great experiences finding elk. Seems a lot of people's honey holes are simply too easy to get into. The "lazy" "casual" hunters who want X marks the spot, probably couldn't get to most truly good, out of the way "secret" spots even if you gave them a map and a horse. Now, yapping to your buddies and posting on facebook for the locals to see... that's a different story. Best to go into stealth mode for that!
 
My advice : tell them to get a map and go hunt. Why ruin it for everyone. If you tell them they don't live here and they will definitely share the info. If I went to another state I would get a guide or save my vacation for a good hunt.
It's getting ridiculous with all the posts asking for help. If you don't see what is happening then it is your fault.
 
Would definitely make it out and scout if I could, going to school full time and working as well, I can barely get the time off to make it out west for 5 days to hunt, so I'm trying to make the best of my time and learn as much as I can remotely. I know I'd be more than willing to help someone out if they asked for info on the area I live and hunt (NW kansas) and some folks have been nice enough to give me a few tips.
 

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