Expo Auction Tags

[Daxter]

Just curious what the auction tags went for last night? How much did they pay for the Henry Mtns deer? I guess they have one more Henry Mtns. deer tag for tonight, as well as the UT statewide tag and the Antelop Island tag. Going to be a lot of money spent tonight I would guess.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

 

[Smokepole]

I talked to an Outfitter from Colorado at the Expo today and he had a Client that was willing to pay upwards of $300,000 for the Antelope Island Buck permit. Will that be enough?

Smokepole

 

[wvbowhunterinalaska]

I guess the old saying goes "More money than sence" applies here. I assume that there is a very high probability of harvesting a once-in-a-lifetime animal on some of these tag auctions? That would be the only way I could see a tag demanding such a high price.
WVBOWAK

 

[Epointer]

Antelope Island went for $265,000
Henryswent for $75,000

 

[ASB]

I hope that opens a lot of eyes.

$190,000.00 difference??? Who would ever thunk the Henries was such a tough tag.

I am actually shocked to see it that far apart....although I should have expected it. Utah is now promoting shooters & not hunters.

When all said & done, not sure this is a good thing.

 

[dkpeay]

The Utah Governors tag went for $160,000 or so, Antelope Island $265,000.

for any critics, here is the history.

Miles Morretti, then SE DWR REgion Director and I sat in the Roadless area of the book cliffs some years ago, and we talked about CLOSING the Book Cliffs to deer hunting and the Henry Mountains. So few deer, so few bucks, terrible range conditions and many other problems.

10-12 years and millions of dollars later - GREAT work by the DWR, millions invested from auction tags and SFW members money, transplants of Bison, wild turkey, bighorn, many habitat projects, coyote control, water developments, drilling of wells and mangement of hunters and habitat, WHAT are the RESULTS

LOTS MORE DEER, BISON, WILD TURKEY, WILD SHEEP, ELK and other species. LOTS better range conditions.

management of the Book Cliffs and Henry Mountains also now produces a few hundred public permits in the BC and 40 or so public tags taht are BEST in teh WORLD on the Henry mountains, and hunters can take a GREAT buck, if they can draw a tag.

these tags have also been the backbone of the nearly $100 Million habitat restoration, coyote control, highway fencing and other activities to rebuild Utah's entire deer herds for the 97,000 general season tags. still lots to do, but progress is being made

Utah does MORE conservation for today and future wildlife than any other state, and these tags are a big part of it.

don peay

 

[Muley_73]

+10

Somebody please show me a group doing more than the SFW and I will join tomorrow.

Thanks to all those putting their dollars out for those tags!

 

[hossblur]

>+10
>
>Somebody please show me a group
>doing more than the SFW
>and I will join tomorrow.
>
>
>Thanks to all those putting their
>dollars out for those tags!
>


PETA, World Wildlife Fund, neither of these groups are as successul at weeding off hunters as SFW has been, but they are trying.

DON, tell me how the $265,000 paid for the pet buck on Antelope Island will benefit wildlife in the state. In reality it doesn't even close the budget shortfall on the island. It was pushed for by YOU, and what did it accomplish other than sell another animal in this state to some deep pocket SHOOTER. DON, while we are at it, how does driving hunting into a wealthy sport help involve kids? When most of Northern Utah is locked up in CWMU, and the rest of the state now heading for LE status, how do YOU plan to pass it down to our kids? Curious, if the deep pockets do so much for the states wildlife, why not publish there names here so we can all thank them? Finally DON, how much did you make from selling OUR wildlife this last weekend, and exactly how much will you spend benefiting it? You put on a good show, I won't argue that, but I can't help but wonder where this state is heading. Mossback is a rockstar, SFW controls the DWR, and a DEER is worth $265,000? We just as well let our kids play video games because hunting is NOT in there future at this rate!!! Great weekend for SFW. Pretty sad for the rest of us. Don't know about you but I can't afford 12-15k for me and my son to go to Alaska, or Canada, or anywhere average guys dream of doing ONCE in there lifetime. I don't hate rich guys, Dr. Austad paid the price, did the work, good for him, but when I see Mossbacks wall and his name is attatched to all those animals, how do we not look to how it is in Europe where the wealthy are the only ones who hunt? A few years ago Most of US hoped Spidey would survive the army coming for him, heres hoping the same for bambi out on the Island.

 

[Hawkeye]

I agree with hossblur. SFW puts on one heck of a show, and I am the first to admit that they have done some good things for wildlife, primarily on the habitat front. But, I am very concerned that we are heading down the wrong path by selling our wildlife and hunting opportunities for big money. Most of us could live with a few, isolated conservation tags being sold with the promise that all of the funds would be reinvested in conservation projects. However, it is galling to see the list of several hundred conservation permits?more than all of the other western states combined?sold to the highest dollar without regard for draw requirements or waiting periods. What will happen in 2012 when Utah turns the entire state into limited entry deer hunting? Will SFW be standing there with its hand out expecting up to 5% of the permits from each of those units? Unfortunately, we have opened have opened ?Pandora ?s Box? and I don't know if we will ever be able to close it.

What really galls me about the Expo is the fact that the State of Utah, SFW and MDF have taken 200 convention permits from the public draw to raffle away without requiring that a single red cent go back into wildlife conservation. I find this appalling, particularly given the fact that a simple requirement that 90% of the funds generated therefrom be spent on actual conservation projects (just like the requirement for conservation permits) would largely appease the public outcry on this issue. Rather than agreeing to such a requirement, SFW and MDF have dug in their heels and continue to resist transparency on the issue. As it stands right now, the residents of the State of Utah have no clue whether the million plus dollars a year generated from the sale of the 200 convention permits is spent on guzzlers, transplants and habitat restoration or salaries, bonuses, vacations, vehicles and consulting fees.

The Expo is a fun event but at some point the general public is going to wake up to the fact that the 200 convention permits are not being sold in the name of conservation. Rather, those 200 tags are simply a welfare payment to SFW and MDF with no strings attached. Hopefully, SFW and MDF will step forward and voluntarily take the initiative to address this issue before the DWR, the State of Utah or the general public does it for them. As my college tax professor used to say, ?The pigs get fat and the hogs get slaughtered!?

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD

 

[hossblur]

+1, but SFW told us they would do it this spring and hasn't so I am not holding hope

 

[stinkystomper]

i get sick of hearing u non active residents of utah gripe about finally having something to hunt all thanks to don. ur a bunch of selfish whining brats because u failed to be sucessful in life and now have to sit back and watch the rich guys do what u wished u could do. ur all a bunch of hypocritical haters.

and just so u know.... those 200 tags were taken from nr's not the residents and u dont hear us griping. by all means keep whining at something that cost u non educated ignorant morons nothing. please do a little research on where utah came from, where they are now, and who got them there!

in short most are sick of all ur selfish crying! get educated on ALL the facts or STHU!


ego participate in Monasteriense muleys proinde ego sum bardus (I participate on monstermuleys therefore I am stupid)

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Come on hossblur. Comparing any hunting group with PETA really makes you look like an illogical hot head. I know you have a little more sense than that.

Since you brought up Alaska . . . have you paid any attention at all what is going on up there. I have because I want to hunt there. The moose are being enialated from predation. Some areas have been closed. SFW has ramped up the conservation effort up there to get that problem under control. I know this burns your ears but SFW will be the sole savior in Alaska. There are a lot of things that SFW is involved with. A lot of people look at the deer and the limited elk tags and say "what have you done for ME lately". There is a lot of stuff they have done. You're right, the conservation tags allow some rich guys to go hunt. But unless you don't want to hunt in the future, or better yet, just want to hike around the mountain with a gun in your hands and no chance of killing a thing, then you need to look at the whole picture.

A few years ago, I was 1-2 years away from my buffalo tag on the Henries. SFW and the DWR stepped in and cut the tags and transplanted a bunch of bison to the Book Cliffs unit. I went from getting a tag in the next couple of years to who knows when. I was frustrated but I can see the bigger picture. I am seriously considering burning my points on a cow tag and buying a bull tag on the Ute Indian reservation.

I know there is a transperancy issue with most opposing hunters. I know there is a general concern for the 200 tags. I personally think we have too many conservation tags but I also have personally witnessed the fruits of those funds. I have seen the habitat restoration and the fencing. The DWR is NOT funding these projects alone. They don't have the man power to work the projects. Conservation organizations supply funds and man power to help the DWR. We all know where we would be if the DWR officials were left with the sole responsibility of managing our wildlife. In general, hunters alone don't have the deep pockets to fund everything.

Let me ask you this questions hoss. Would you be willing to pay $100 for a general license every year for you AND your kids? Would you be willing to organize weekly work projects to help the DWR? These are just simple questions. Not trying to incite a riot.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[nontypical]

Being from Wyo,I don't really have a dog in this fight but here are some observations:1.The general public(hunters)will NEVER band together to fight what you guys(Hossblur and Hawkeye) perceive as being wrong.As a rule,hunters don't band together.2.The only time I can remember hunters banding together was when SFW first started as a grassroots organization and marched on the courthouse to turn around the lousy hunting in your state.My observation is hunting has improved in Utah since then.3.SFW is leading the fight against the wolves destroying our big game herds in Wy,Id,and MT.Is anyone else?There won't be any hunting for your kids in the future,but it SURE AS HELL WON'T BE BECAUSE SFW MAKES MONEY OFF OF AUCTION AND RAFFLE TAGS!It will be because of HUNTER APATHY AND INDIFFERENCE.Meanwhile,PETA and Fund For Animals quietly destroy future hunting with PR and organizational skills that surpass anything hunters have to offer-with the exception of SFW,MDF,RMEF,NRA,etc.I don't agree with every little thing that all these organizations do,but who else is gonna fight the fight for ya???You guys come up with something better,I'll get in the foxhole with ya!!!Until then,I gotta go with the guys who are fighting the fight!Pretty simple concept,really.Sadly,90% of hunters will fight the fight on MM,where it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the big picture of things.Bickering amongst ourselves over truly meaningless junk on MM while our hunting slowly disappears.Wow.

 

[piper]

I don't understand how the 200 tags came from the nonresident quota, maybe? Where all this hunting stuff is going eventually? I have no idea, but money talks, and among other things, SFW has done a lot of good as far as bringing the overall elk numbers up in the state, Im not sure how many resident hunters realize that. As a comparison, there is no organization like SFW in Nevada and they really lose when it comes to elk because the special interests keep numbers way down, without SFWs work I think Utah would basicly be in the same boat. It does seem like a lot of special tags go on the auction block, but these 200 expo tags can go to regular folks if they care to try for them. A lot of things bother me as far as the direction big game hunting is going, but going back in the past is not an option, looking forward is the only way.

 

[Hawkeye]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-11 AT 10:44AM (MST)[p]I am not going to substantively respond to stinkystomper?s post because it is ridiculous. I am educated on the facts stinky, but we apparently don't see eye to eye on this one. I have researched the facts and law, and even met personally with Don and others from SFW last year. I am sorry that you could not purchase multiple tags again this year because business was bad. The good news is that the economy is looking better and there will be even more tags available next year. You can caount on that!

My opinion is much closer to Jim?s, although he is certainly more pro-SFW than I am. As I stated in my original post, I openly admit that SFW has done some good things for wildlife. I have been a member of SFW and other ?conservation? groups in the past and have donated/spent several thousand dollars on these groups. However, I reject the polarized view that you either support SFW or you are anti-wildlife conservation. This issue is not black and white. Yes, SFW does some good things but there needs to be checks and balances, accountability and transparency when you are talking about public resources. Right now these things are lacking. As a hunter, I appreciate the good things that SFW has done but that does not mean that I cannot comment on the things I disagree with.

If I were king for a day, I would reduce the number of conservation and convention permits and impose a requirement that 100% of the funds generated from the sale of those tags be spent on actual wildlife conservation. There would also be strict accounting and disclosure requirements. SFW makes plenty of money off donations, concessions, banquet tickets, non-permit auction items, etc. to pay overhead expenses. All of the money generated from a public resource (the permits) should go back into that resource. As it stands right now, 90% of the funds generated from the sale of hundreds of conservation permits are earmarked for actual conservation. However, 0%, YES ZERO PERCENT, of the money generated from the convention permits is earmarked for actual conservation. I personally do not think this is right and I am not afraid to say so. I told this to Don face to face in our meeting last year. If this makes me a ?non educated ignorant moron? (By the way, it's actually uneducated stinky), so be it. As they say, ignorance is bliss!


Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD

 

[stinkystomper]

hawkeye.

i find nothing wrong wth your last statement and do agree. what i disagree with is everyone saying that sfw taked in all this money and does nothing for wildlife. sure they mis appropriate funds but in my opinion they do more for wildlife than any other group. so quit saying they've never done a thing.

as for my issues with sfw, here goes. last year at the full curl meeting don stated he was going to purchase more sheep tags for the full curl society. this year i look at the available sheep tags and to my suprise most of the tags were specifically reserved for people who had killed two or more sheep. i mean come on now! thats flat out welfare for the wealthy. i can petsonally afford to hunt sheep but dont wanna drop that kinda money. odds are the person that has already shot two sheep can afford to buy a hunt. why do u need to give this guy a free hunt! for god sake give the hunt to a guy ho cant afford it. this one issue really pisses me off and is my biggest issue with don. Don ive backed u on just about every issue and i still stand behind u but seriously. you need to explain yourself on this issue.


ego participate in Monasteriense muleys proinde ego sum bardus (I participate on monstermuleys therefore I am stupid)

 

[Hawkeye]

There you go stinky. You see, it is possible to agree with SFW on some discrete issues and disagree with them on others. You better be careful. Now that you have criticized Don and SFW, you will also be labeled as an ignorant, lazy, worthless, uneducated, anti-hunting, whiny, ungrateful, malcontent like the rest of us. Welcome to the brotherhood!

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD

 

[backinthegame]

I'll be surprised to see Don back on this thread...he jumped in to toot the SFW horn like always, but once folks with legitimate questions start asking he's in hiding again, just like any good politician!!

And by the way...stinkystomper = facepalm

 

[dogshedd]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-11 AT 04:02PM (MST)[p]Lets hear it dawn??

 

[dkpeay]

Got a few hours sleep.

there used to be 8 sheep tags in Utah, now there are close to 70 plus, so that is a lot more opportunity in normal draw, every year. that is the real current and future benefit, along with many other wild sheep conservaiton activities in other states


now to Full Curl.

come on fellas, give us a break.

we give away 15 stone and dall sheep hunts - 10 Dalls and 5 stones at a value of $250,000 and that is not enough ? does anyone care how much time and effort it takes to raise the money, line up teh hunts, FCS volanteers donated 100s of hours !

all that money comes from FCS members, and generous donors.

all 15 hunts went to people who had not killed the sheep they drew.

it worked out as predicted, hunters who had drawn a desert somewhere, or a rocky somewhere in state draws, a few guys had drawn like a Utah Desert and Wyomign Bighorn, or one had drawn a Utah desert, then had a dall got all 15 hunts.

so, the folks with some money, who have taken all four sheep, come up with 15 hunts for those who have not, and not good enough.

yikes !!

i hope now you understand how it really turned out, there is a little gratitude and appreciation.

best of luck, out got to jump on a plane, won't be on mm for a while

don

 

[shotgun1]

I get sick of hearing some jackass like Stinky spew BS out his pie hole that he has no clue what he's talking about. The 200 tags come out of the non-resident pool? Oh really. Get your facts straight and STFU! Idiot.

 

[drawback]

Give you a break? For handing out MULLIGANS??? Who ever said that drawing a tag meant you were guaranteed an animal? You are simply playing favorites and calling it charity!

____________________________

I hunt. I fish. I VOTE.

Get the F out of SFW

 

[wapitiwhistler]

Does anybody know how much money these "top officials" make that work for the SFW and MDF?

 

[Birdman]

As for the 200 tags at the expo, you draw one of those tags and you get a voucher that you take to the DWR to buy the tag. The only money the expo gets is the $5. I guess you can have Nevada get the $10.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

I really don't like the direction SFW has taken our state, I don't care how more limited entry opportunities they have created.

The majority of good land is now locked up either in CWMU's or LE. A lot of those areas are now reporting lower quality animals for some reason.

I'm the kind of guy that doesn't pay $2 for bottled water when there is a drinking fountain, and I'm certainly not going to pay $12,000 for elk antlers and tough meat.

The option 2 mule deer management plan this year shows the power of special interests. A bunch of guys who are obsessed with trophies put in the time and money and get their way. We are getting awfully close to a statewide le deer hunt.

I'm not as interested in having le opportunites as I am in have a good general hunt. Quality in both has been decreasing. I like to hunt because I like to do some things myself. Same with my little garden in the backyard. I'll even change my own oil when I have time.

I shouldn't have to fight against trophey hunters and I'm not going to. They have far more time and passion. Pure trophey hunting is not ethical in my book. I will quit the hunting ranks and join the anti hunting groups when Utah hunting becomes a 100% trophey pursuit.

 

[dogshedd]

Dawn truly represents the average general public Joe and his average hunting buddies. Thanks Dawn and sFw!!

 

[dogshedd]

Wap whistler,,, most recent irs 990 filings that i found had sfw's top guy getting 156k, rmef 198k,DU 282k, Suwa 78K!!

 

[mooseman]

hey stinkystomper notice how don the politician twists things. so the odds of drawing one of those dall or stone for someone like me who has never drawn a sheep tag was 1 of the 15 tags and how many people where in that hopper my best guess is that at least 3/4 of the people in the room were in that hopper so the odds (im not going to do the math) but if you have shot a sheep your odds of drawing one of the other 7 or if you bought a lot of tickets (which = lots of more money for them, i know it is supposed to go to more tags for people with money to buy more tickets) so the odds for those people are a lot better for them. i know i will not be donating any more money to full curl society in the future. not a fair system for those who have never got the opportunity to hunt sheep before. thats my two cents worth.

 

[fullcry]

Don, Check your PM box when you get caught up...

 

[stinkystomper]

Correct me if I am wrong don but as I read it only one sheep tag went to someone who had never killed a sheep period!

then there were the tags in the hoppers out front for everyone.

Lets only concentrate on the full curl society.

You guys gave one dall tag to people who had never killed a sheep.

Then you gave 3 dall tags to people who had killed 1 sheep.

Then you gave one stone sheep to someone who had killed one sheep

then you gave one stone sheep to someone who had kille two sheep

then you have one sheep hunt of your choice to someone who had kille 2 or more sheep.

the rest of the tags were raffled to all who applied including people who had killed sheep before.

Lets recap. THERE WAS ONLY 1(ONE) TAG RESERVED FOR SOMEONE WHO HAD NEVER KILLED A SHEEP BEFORE!

There is zero spinning this one don. I by no means have any malice toward you and hold you in very high regard. However you have just created a welfare system for the wealthy.

WHY DO WE RESERVE SHEEP TAGS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY KILLED SHEEP? If they've killed sheep in the past, odds are they can afford to buy their own hunt.

I for one could afford to buy my own tag and think it would be the work of a psycho to reserve such a high priced tag for the wealthy.

Please explain welfare for the rich. Please? Don, I could see requiring someone to present their tax return and only giving tags to people who had killed sheep and would never be able to afford to kill another....... aka someone who lucked out and drew one. However most people who have killed sheep are rich! I bought in last year and threw in my support and damn near gave you guys a big ass donation. However I'll be damned if im gonna throw welfare checks to the wealthy. You gotta put a stop to this one don. It's honestly making you look really bad.





ego participate in Monasteriense muleys proinde ego sum bardus (I participate on monstermuleys therefore I am stupid)

 

[backinthegame]

Dude...stinky...SFW isn't catering to the regular Joe Blow hunter...that's no secret and never has been. I agree with what you're saying 100%, but unfortunately you're yelling at deaf ears.

SFW helps build wildlife habitat, etc...yes, true...but they don't do it to grow opportunity for the sport. They do it to grow the opportunity to sell high-dollar tags to wealthy hunters.

I have zero beef with these wealthy hunters...you stinky are one apparently, and that's great. I'm sure you've worked hard to get where you are and that's awesome. If I had the money I'd buy tags too...in a heartbeat. I'm not the kind that feels slighted by a guy with more money than me...that's just the way the world works, gotta pay to play and that's fine.

The problem is the opportunity for growth in the sport of hunting is being run into the ground when special interest groups (like SFW, but not ONLY SFW) control entirely the way that wildlife is managed and/or hunted.

The recent changes to the deer system in Utah won't grow the herd. It will decrease hunting pressure (reduce opportunity)in hopes of growing better deer. SFW is behind it, and there's little doubt as to why...big deer = big money.

Doyle Moss is apparently boycotting guiding the Governer's elk tag because he's upset that the state is giving out too many general elk tags. Says it's killing the opportunity for the "huge bulls." Pretty interesting point of view...easy to see where his interests are, and why would they be anywhere else? He only needs a half-dozen hunters a year to pay his bills, so why would he be for more opportunity at a possible cost to trophy quality. He wouldn't, and that's fine. His stance. Aligned with SFW's.

 

[Tribute]

Wow this statement about made me puke!


ur a bunch of selfish whining brats because u failed to be sucessful in life and now have to sit back and watch the rich guys do what u wished u could do.

So let me make sure I get what your saying. Because you chose a profession that pays enough money to afford to buy these rich man welfare tags you are more deserving of using a public resource. A Teacher, Fireman, Cop, Military Service, Ect are way less deserving of using a Public Resource than you because you make alot of money. None of the above can afford these tags because as you said they "failed to be sucessful in life". And now you want to whine because you didn't get another welfare tag. Classless!

 

[Hawkeye]

Tribute-

Take everything stinky says with a grain of salt. He likes to stir the pot. At the end of the day, however, he really is not that bad. Heck, he even admitted that he was a little peeved after the Full Curl Society Banquet. Slowly but surely, he is starting to open his eyes. Be patient.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD

 

[mooseman]

amen stinkystomper!!! you said it much better than i did. i to have never drawn a sheep tag. so i was in the hopper for the one tag in 15 pool. at least last year we had a 2 chances out of the 8 tags.

 

[hossblur]

AWLB,

How many hunters have we lost due to decreasing tags? How many have quit because of PETA? I know no one who quit because of PETA, I know a lot who did because of decreasing tags.

Second, I am not really good at posting pics, but there are pics all over the web of wolves in Utah. Last I checked nothing has changed to stop wolves in Utah, so what has Don(SFW) done?

Is it outrageous to want to see SFW numbers after more than 6 months of waiting for what Don promised? Don had time to post two posts trumpeting himself(as always), he could have put up the numbers he promised all of us in the same ammount of time.

The Antelope Island deer tag went for $265,000. The hunt was brought on SOLELY by SFW, not for biological reasons, not(despite the BS) help for the island, but as a reward to the same deep pockets that support Don now.

Third, I was around when SFW started. I worked with Batemans son Brett, he came around the sites trying to get guys involved with them. At THAT time the group was all about getting ALL of us together to lobby for better hunting. It never was about closing up the state and offering increased access to deep pockets. Now I won't argue that some areas have blossomed with SFW assistance, but others paid the price. The Manti elk herd has beeen decimated by overtagging, many of which were given to SFW to sell off to increase some other LE. The Manti isn't alone in this. It has never made since to destroy one area to build another, EXCEPT that SFW has clients who want those areas improved.

I saw a post on here that showed the map of northern Utah and how locked up it is in CWMU's. Now the state(SFW) wants to make the rest LE. How do you get your kids interested in a sport that they particpate in onece every 3 or 4 years? Who replaces the baby boomer deep pockets that Don caters to if they aren't brought up in the sport as kids? SFW is like a drug dealer, they give you a little taste(expo tags, draw tag on antelope island), but to get the good stuff you have to sell your soul.

I grew up hunting Manti. SFW HAS DONE NOTHING to change or improve it. It has hurt it, and it is the biggest unit in the state.