Secondary draw: you in?

txhunter58

txhunter58

Long Time Member
Messages
8,546
Not me. No sense when I have zero chance of even being in the drawing. Sure some adults will draw a few tags, but only on low tier units with lots of tags left. Word has gotten out that youth have 4 choices before we are even in the running. Not sending in any money this time.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
It was never a secret about the youth preference. People just can't read I guess. It was clearly stated in the proclamation since the inception of the secondary draw a few years ago.
Click to expand...

Correct, but those of us who don’t have time/took the time to read every word and made the assumption that it was a preference for the first choice only, not all 4 choices, were surprised ? the first year. One more reason to never assume. I am sure there are still some that don’t know.
 
Seems like a thorough explanation to me. Not sure how anyone cannot comprehend how the secondary draw works
Screenshot 2023-06-12 114736.jpg
 
Very comprehensive and clear: As long as you read it. Some of us didn’t and some still haven’t. I skimmed over it and missed it. My fault. Not sure what’s hard to understand about that. Just trying to get the word out for those people who still might not know.
 
I understand your post what I don't understand is making multiple posts and threads complaining about it when you didn't read how it works.
 
2nd scam… more like it. Waste of time and money, still lots of idiots will throw in, wait and see. A couple 76 tags will have 3k adults put in for it, and they will have 0 chance kind of a funny scam the state is running
 
Did it the first year to see how many youths actually applied and what adult tags were drawn, if any.

Based on that, I will never apply for the secondary draw again…

Horniac
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
I understand your post what I don't understand is making multiple posts and threads complaining about it when you didn't read how it works.
Click to expand...

Not complaining. Just making sure all us Hicks out here in the sticks know about it this time. Most people wouldn't have read the other thread. Not sure why you are complaining about my post. It’s not for you obviously.
 
No Mas, I threw money at the last two years even though I new it was a youth preference draw. CPAW sure advertises it as if you got a chance. They know exactly what this draw is, why don't they just call it a youth draw.
 
How are they advertising that you have a chance? I cut and pasted a screenshot of their explanation of the secondary draw. It literally tells you that as an adult you have no chance at any decent tag
 
I'm sure there will still be thousands that try for tags they cant draw, but I've had people tell me more than ounce there buddy drew a random tag in the main draw so how do you convince people they have no chance here. I like the idea of kids getting tags though, just not sure this is way to do it.
 
Plan to put my daughter in. Need to check the list!

This is such a ridiculous conversation ;sorry this is the only thing they do for youth, the sucks and the only thing these sucks do right!

The 5 year plan now is to be like California so put in while ya can.
 
HntHrdr said:
2nd scam… more like it. Waste of time and money, still lots of idiots will throw in, wait and see. A couple 76 tags will have 3k adults put in for it, and they will have 0 chance kind of a funny scam the state is running
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States have been running the lottery scam, and it's worked for decades.
 
Focoelkman said:
Plan to put my daughter in. Need to check the list!

This is such a ridiculous conversation ;sorry this is the only thing they do for youth, the sucks and the only thing these sucks do right!

The 5 year plan now is to be like California so put in while ya can.
Click to expand...
That's all they do for youth? How about reduced fee licenses, antlerless license preference in the draws, being allowed to convert their unfilled antlerless deer and elk and either-sex elk tags to antlerless licenses to be used in any remaining open season. Seems like some solid perks to me.
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, need to designate a handful of tags in all units 5-30 tags per unit as youth only. Include the top draw units in it and be done with all youth preference in the second draw, or at a minimum limit it to in state youth preference
 
I strategized and got the tag I wanted in the 2nd draw last year but I think that will be even more of a fluke going forward. Very little reason for adults to participate in this draw for the same low-demand tags you can probably just purchase later as reissue/leftovers. Anything good with only a few tags available and there is little to no chance if not a youth.
 
Does anybody know when they will post the list of available tags? I have applied five years in a row for the second draw and I should be getting close to a tag by now! Does Colorado square your second draw application points?
 
I've had friends that thought they should put in, thinking they had a chance for a good tag as they didn't read the rules either.....just too busy and trusting the CPW to have a "fair" system. I just think when they should call it what it is and if they give youth 4 choices, just make it a youth only draw. But that'd not generate any extra revenue from those that don't look into the details.
 
txhunter58 said:
Not me. No sense when I have zero chance of even being in the drawing. Sure some adults will draw a few tags, but only on low tier units with lots of tags left. Word has gotten out that youth have 4 choices before we are even in the running. Not sending in any money this time.
Click to expand...
Amen ! What a load of BS overall ! Not another $ 1 to that scam.
 
fallguy said:
That's all they do for youth? How about reduced fee licenses, antlerless license preference in the draws, being allowed to convert their unfilled antlerless deer and elk and either-sex elk tags to antlerless licenses to be used in any remaining open season. Seems like some solid perks to me.
Click to expand...

The $100 price tag is huge. And they also get some designated tags in the first draw. But only for 1st choice
 
Nope. I agree the process needs to be changed. Maybe 50% get youth priority? Or just random for everyone would be my preference for sure. Or priority for those that applied in the primary draw?
 
I am just as outraged as everyone else. How about 100% first choice draw for Colorado residents over the age of 50? You know, the ones that pay the high taxes, put up with the fires and the unconstitutional laws coming out of Denver. Like many of you I put in the last two years for the youth draw and got nothing. I didn't put in for high point units either. Just something a couple of hours from the house. Nada. I'm convinced that residents are drawn last in each GMU. I know of no one in my small circle that has drawn first choice since CPW changed the draw to no payment until the license is drawn.
 
The one
Deercy said:
What 76 tag?
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The same one that guy turned in last year so one of his kids could get it. The surrender period and the youth preference in the Secondary Draw makes for quite the friends and family scheme. The kids get primo tags and dad gets his money back and keeps his points only to do it again next year. It's the gift that just keeps giving.

Actually in the case of 76, there's a good chance one of the next 5 in line would take it but not always as we saw last year. The friends and family scheme works better for the 4 point and under tags as they automatically go into the youth draw.
 
HiMtnHntr said:
Is there a list somewhere?
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The payment deadline for the first draw is June 16th. So they’ll start putting the secondary draw list together after that. What day it shows up is anybody’s guess. Hopefully before the secondary draw application period starts the 21st. ?
 
There were
fallguy said:
The one

The same one that guy turned in last year so one of his kids could get it. The surrender period and the youth preference in the Secondary Draw makes for quite the friends and family scheme. The kids get primo tags and dad gets his money back and keeps his points only to do it again next year. It's the gift that just keeps giving.

Actually in the case of 76, there's a good chance one of the next 5 in line would take it but not always as we saw last year. The friends and family scheme works better for the 4 point and under tags as they automatically go into the youth draw.
Click to expand...
No 76 bull tags in the secondary draw last year. And if I applied for a tag in a coveted area, trusted that it would make it through the next 5, and then through the hundreds to one chance of my kid drawing it, I'm ignorant.
 
LeeWoiteshek said:
I am just as outraged as everyone else. How about 100% first choice draw for Colorado residents over the age of 50? You know, the ones that pay the high taxes, put up with the fires and the unconstitutional laws coming out of Denver. Like many of you I put in the last two years for the youth draw and got nothing. I didn't put in for high point units either. Just something a couple of hours from the house. Nada. I'm convinced that residents are drawn last in each GMU. I know of no one in my small circle that has drawn first choice since CPW changed the draw to no payment until the license is drawn.
Click to expand...
I draw almost every tag I apply for. I'm a resident. Send me your point totals and I will set you up a list of tags you can draw. Also tags you don't need to apply 1st choice for. (This list is shrinking)
 
I know people that even after I have explained how Preference Points work, still put in for and are surprised when they don't draw tags that they don't have enough points for.
Then shocked when they don't get tags in the 2nd draw even after it's explained the youth get preference.
They are the first to say CPW system is the problem.
 
HiMtnHntr said:
Thanks. I got a deer tag already…. But I have 2 youths who might be into a second draw tag?;)
Click to expand...
Okay there ya go you are learning, first year was like kids taking candy from blind adults on Halloween, word is out so it’s a tad tougher, but if there are a handful of tags your kids may have a shot
 
Deercy said:
There were

No 76 bull tags in the secondary draw last year. And if I applied for a tag in a coveted area, trusted that it would make it through the next 5, and then through the hundreds to one chance of my kid drawing it, I'm ignorant.
Click to expand...
You are correct on no 76 tag last year - must have been later in the re-issue.
 
Deercy said:
I draw almost every tag I apply for. I'm a resident. Send me your point totals and I will set you up a list of tags you can draw. Also tags you don't need to apply 1st choice for. (This list is shrinking)
Click to expand...
Yep sad day, used to be able to snag a decent 2nd choice those are disappearing quick. I think the saddest day was when they switched the 2nd draw to everyone. I loved when you had to opt in for it. There were some true gems to be had
 
fallguy said:
You are correct on no 76 tag last year - must have been later in the re-issue.
Click to expand...
I’m just blowing smoke I don’t know if there will be any on it this year. I do recall a 61 tag last year maybe, some decent buck tags, or a NW elk tag heck lots of decent 0-3 point units that us tax paying folks had a snowballs chance in hell against the freeloaders! I am obviously very against youth preference until my daughter turns 12, then I will be all for it for about the next 6 years haha
 
HntHrdr said:
Yep sad day, used to be able to snag a decent 2nd choice those are disappearing quick. I think the saddest day was when they switched the 2nd draw to everyone. I loved when you had to opt in for it. There were some true gems to be had
Click to expand...
And you had to apply in person at a License agent
 
HntHrdr said:
I’m just blowing smoke I don’t know if there will be any on it this year. I do recall a 61 tag last year maybe, some decent buck tags, or a NW elk tag heck lots of decent 0-3 point units that us tax paying folks had a snowballs chance in hell against the freeloaders! I am obviously very against youth preference until my daughter turns 12, then I will be all for it for about the next 6 years haha
Click to expand...
Yeah, pretty sure there was a 61 deer tag and multiple Gunny Basin buck tags.
 
I am still interested to see what tags are on it. It used the be the “leftover drawing”. If that is all they did, there wouldn’t be an issue. But it is when they start putting in returned tags to primo units that it’s seems a bit unfair. The only change they would have to make is hold them for the first reissue day
 
I like to hunt. I don't like otc. I plan my fall around what I can almost guarantee. This is just bonus opportunity. It isn't even available most places. If you don't like it, draw in the regular.
 
My daughter drew a leftover Gunni tag as a youth- we liked the youth preference. Now she is an adult we don't like the youth preference. haha It sure was fun playing with a point-free tag.
I don't see a reason for an adult to apply for most tags in the second draw.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
How are they advertising that you have a chance? I cut and pasted a screenshot of their explanation of the secondary draw. It literally tells you that as an adult you have no chance at any decent tag
Click to expand...
If adults have no chance, isnt it worth talking about then? they're still taking money from people (adults) who didnt read the fine print and put in for the draw. Seems like a worthy conversation to have on a forum.
 
bodhi said:
If adults have no chance, isnt it worth talking about then? they're still taking money from people (adults) who didnt read the fine print and put in for the draw. Seems like a worthy conversation to have on a forum.
Click to expand...
It’s not “fine print” people just aren’t looking at the regulations. Hopefully this forum educated a few people and saved them a Biden Buck or two.
 
bodhi said:
If adults have no chance, isnt it worth talking about then? they're still taking money from people (adults) who didnt read the fine print and put in for the draw. Seems like a worthy conversation to have on a forum.
Click to expand...
It literally written in bold in the proclamation how is that fine print? Some of you whiners need to work on reading comprehension
 
I won’t but I’ll be helping the boy across the street and apply this year. He’s 14. His parents don’t hunt and he’s developed a big interest in it. He’s called and emailed landowners all o we the place and been granted permission to hunt on some. Pretty excited to take him out and watch him progress.
 
KJW said:
I won’t but I’ll be helping the boy across the street and apply this year. He’s 14. His parents don’t hunt and he’s developed a big interest in it. He’s called and emailed landowners all o we the place and been granted permission to hunt on some. Pretty excited to take him out and watch him progress.
Click to expand...
Well done ?! Pay ? it forward !
Jerry Gold
Windsor, Colorado ?
 
I was surprised to see the quality tags that was on the list last year that I'm sure young hunters scored on. My question is, is there anything in place to prevent a youngster from drawing a primo tag every year? I am ok with the youth preference but with the limitation that if they drew a unit 44 tag (among other high demand/point units) they would be excluded from future draws or units. Hopefully my sons will have some decent preference as non-residents in a couple years when they are old enough.
Jeff
 
Old_Cohntr6 said:
I was surprised to see the quality tags that was on the list last year that I'm sure young hunters scored on. My question is, is there anything in place to prevent a youngster from drawing a primo tag every year? I am ok with the youth preference but with the limitation that if they drew a unit 44 tag (among other high demand/point units) they would be excluded from future draws or units. Hopefully my sons will have some decent preference as non-residents in a couple years when they are old enough.
Jeff
Click to expand...
No limitations, no points used. Pretty sweet deal for the youth for sure.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
It was never a secret about the youth preference. People just can't read I guess. It was clearly stated in the proclamation since the inception of the secondary draw a few years ago.
Click to expand...
I checked into the history of the "secondary Draw" on the CPAW website by looking at past commissioner meeting agendas and minutes. The secondary draw was approved by vote during the January 9-10, 2019 meeting.


After approval, Chapter W-2 Included individual sections for both Leftover & secondary draw provisions (page 59 & 60 of the pdf)(look at the page counter not page numbers)

I was surprised to see that prior to 2019 the leftover provisions in Chapter W-2 included the same statement as the new secondary License provision "Any eligible hunter, ages 12 – 17 shall receive preference for leftover deer and elk licenses."

Link to 2017 big game proclamation:

I do not remember people complaining about the youth hunters getting all the good "leftover" tags back then, even though the provisions stated that they should have, maybe they did and nobody noticed.

I found it interesting in the Basis & Purpose section of the minutes (pdf page count 217) that the secondary draw would provide opportunity and better planning "and gives customers a fair chance at any leftover or returned license." There is no specific mention in the Basis and Purpose of youth hunters at all. But since youth already had priority in the left over draw prior to the implementation of the new secondary draw I guess they didn't need to mention it.
 
FrontRange said:
I checked into the history of the "secondary Draw" on the CPAW website by looking at past commissioner meeting agendas and minutes. The secondary draw was approved by vote during the January 9-10, 2019 meeting.


After approval, Chapter W-2 Included individual sections for both Leftover & secondary draw provisions (page 59 & 60 of the pdf)(look at the page counter not page numbers)

I was surprised to see that prior to 2019 the leftover provisions in Chapter W-2 included the same statement as the new secondary License provision "Any eligible hunter, ages 12 – 17 shall receive preference for leftover deer and elk licenses."

Link to 2017 big game proclamation:

I do not remember people complaining about the youth hunters getting all the good "leftover" tags back then, even though the provisions stated that they should have, maybe they did and nobody noticed.

I found it interesting in the Basis & Purpose section of the minutes (pdf page count 217) that the secondary draw would provide opportunity and better planning "and gives customers a fair chance at any leftover or returned license." There is no specific mention in the Basis and Purpose of youth hunters at all. But since youth already had priority in the left over draw prior to the implementation of the new secondary draw I guess they didn't need to mention it.
Click to expand...
I think the majority of adults didn't have a problem with youth preference in the old leftover draw. CPW screwed this up when they decided to put the surrender period tags into what they now call the secondary draw. It would be an easy fix to go back to the leftover draw with youth priority and hold the surrender tags for the re-issue process.
 
Reminder…

Winter kill.
Later season dates about 3 years ago.
CWD units overload the buck tags.
Excellent hunting conditions in 2nd/3rd season last fall.

Are they really getting “primo tags”? I thought we all agreed the quality deer hunting was over in Colorado.
 
elkmo41 said:
Reminder…

Winter kill.
Later season dates about 3 years ago.
CWD units overload the buck tags.
Excellent hunting conditions in 2nd/3rd season last fall.

Are they really getting “primo tags”? I thought we all agreed the quality deer hunting was over in Colorado.
Click to expand...
I think it might be in a lot of units, going to turn into Montana where a 160 three year old is the new definition of a Booner
 

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