Stages of a Hunter

Broadside_Shot

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I have found it interesting as I have been sitting with my 10 year old son, going through Hunters Safety with him. One of the topics we have covered during class is the Stages of a Hunter.
All those who have been through hunters safety know what I mean.

1. Shooters Stage
2. Limiting Out Stage
3. Trophy Stage
4. Method Stage
5. Sportsman Stage.

There are about 40 people in the class and there is a wide variety of opinions but not one of the kids under 18 consider themselves more than the Shooters Stage.

The reason I bring this up is it seems that alot of people want to start everyone out at the Trophy Stage.

I think we need to really look at things with a bigger picture in mind and try our best to see others opinions on hunting whether you agree of disagree. Trying to force someone to be a hunter that they are not ready for makes for a bad situation in my opinion.

I know I have evolved through the different stages and I am very glad I was able change as I matured and learned more about hunting. I know I appreciate things more now.

Just my opinions.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-09 AT 09:08AM (MST)[p]This is the lead of an article I wrote about 20 years ago. The rest of the article went on to outline the parameters for judging a trophy buck on the hoof.

IS IT A TROPHY?​

Competing for some warmth, two other guides and our six hunters from New Jersey and Texas huddled closer to the dwindling campfire. While they continued swapping hunting tales on that eve of the 1976 Colorado deer season opener, I placed a fresh log on the coals, then watched the flames prey on the hunk of wood.

The pine pitch warmed quickly. With no breeze to alter their route, the sooty smoke curls lingered a bit before drifting away into the night sky. I peered up at the star-flecked blackness and smiled, recalling a question my now 45-year-old son, Keith, had asked as an inquisitive 5-yr.old in 1967.

We had camped among the ponderosa pines in northeast Arizona?s White Mountains. Although it was mid-summer, the night temperature had fallen to the low 40s. Wrapped tightly in his heavy coat, Keith had pushed in tight against my wife for extra warmth and had intently focused on the fire. After 15 silent minutes, he suddenly asked, "Daddy, where does the smoke go." Knowing I would have no plausible answer, my wife smiled when I told the toddler the smoke just goes all the way up to heaven.

Right then, a client interrupted my musing, but I heard only my name. "Sorry, I was dreaming. What did you say?"

The man from New Jersey repeated his question. "What do you think our chances of taking a good trophy are?"

I waited for a few seconds, thinking about the irony. Although the question was less far-fetched than Keith?s, I had no definitive answer simply because I needed to know what comprised a trophy for him.

Little has changed since that night in 1976. Today, the adage, "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder," still fits. The problem is one of definition; a trophy for one guy might be a non-shooter to the next guy.

At one time or another, many hunters will harbor the spirits and desires of a trophy hunter. Unfortunately, the reality of it all usually takes precedence over spirits and desires.

Hunters supposedly kill about a million deer for each one that makes the Boone & Crockett (B&C) record book. So if my hunter wanted a B&C mule deer, his chances would be minimal at best and astronomical at worst. Yet knowing many older bucks lived in our hunting area, I could have comfortably said he had a 50/50 chance at a nice representative head, especially given the results of past hunts in the same area. But again, my answer depended on his trophy parameters and not mine, which might greatly differ.

If we stay with the dictionary definition, any memento of the hunt would be a trophy. And many deer hunters do follow Mr. Webster's interpretation. Certainly any youngster who kills his first buck will cherish it as a trophy, regardless of antler or body size. Actually, even a spike or a doe, where legal, might qualify a neophyte hunter?s trophy.

Then there's the middle-grounders. Although they pay little attention to concise parameters and rarely fret over a lack of symmetry or the number of points per side, they bestow trophy status to any mature, above-average buck. B&C scores are unimportant; they merely want a set of antlers for their wall. Many middle-ground hunters might also shoot a smaller buck as the final day of the season approaches.

At the other extreme are those who feel only a record-book buck deserves trophy recognition. Of course, these committed nimrods will sometimes tag a non-record-book buck that anyone would still call an outstanding trophy.

Those dedicated types who search for monster bucks have already paid their dues and gained the knowledge, experience and skills to locate and outsmart big deer. Most importantly, they have learned to be patient, often passing on average bucks. They can spot a buck, give it a quick once over and quickly evaluate its trophy proportions. This ability comes only from practicing what they already know.....



TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
I didn't know I was so predictable. I must be in stage 4, I already have a representative buck, bull elk, and antelope on the wall, and spent the last few of deer seasons with an old open sighted .45/70 single shot. Already planning on aquiring an older .30/30 for next year.
 
I think the majority of hunters are at the shooters or limiting out stage. That seems to be the case with those that I know.

For me it depends on what I am hunting hunting. If I am hunting Ducks, I am more at the limiting out stage. If I am hunting deer, I am more at the Trophy/Method stage. For elk I am at the limiting out/trophy stage. Depending on the area because I eat elk year round and love the meat.

Bottom line is I think it is very personal which stage you are at. I also think that those of us that are trophy hunters need to be careful not to change the sport so much that it negatively impacts the sport.

Great post!
 
> I
>also think that those of
>us that are trophy hunters
>need to be careful not
>to change the sport so
>much that it negatively impacts
>the sport.


Me thinks that has already happened somewhat to the detriment of what hunting represents today.

TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
"The reason I bring this up is it seems that alot of people want to start everyone out at the Trophy Stage."

I think that is a very profound ststement. I read a lot of stories and watch a lot of videos of very young people who apparently skipped the first two stages. I think in a lot of cases, the parents made them skip them. When I got my first hunting license, the farthest thing from my mind was drawing that once in a lifetime sheep tag, and I didn't even know what a "record book" buck was, and I couldn't have cared less. I think that is more natural than being born a trophy hunter.

It kind of reminds me of the father who pushes his son to be the star of the baseball team. Maybe the kid wants that and maybe he doesn't, but he really has no choice, if he wants to please dad.

This is just my opinion.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
I think it's all about enjoying the experience, whatever that means for you. Get to that stage, and it's always good. Too many guys I know put so much pressure on themselves that it takes away from the enjoyment. That pressure can be to fill tags, get some sort of scoring animal, whatever Remember, it's recreation...
 
My favorite years were the shooter stage. As a young hunter I'd heard about some game warden in CO who was bagging lots of really big bucks (Darner) but didn't give it a second thought. We didn't care, because we were having our own brand of hunting fun!

Nowadays hunting seems to be all about the trophy stage with big racks and even bigger egos, guides pimping out big bucks and bulls for the wealthy shooter (spider) and making sure the hero shot gets published somewhere. Tags can also be hard to come by unless you are flush with cash then it's no problem. Hunting has lost its innocence and become too much of a ego trip / rich mans sport so I've mostly moved on to other pursuits. It's too bad where hunting has gone in my opinion.
 
>My favorite years were the shooter
>stage. As a young hunter
>I'd heard about some game
>warden in CO who was
>bagging lots of really big
>bucks (Darner) but didn't give
>it a second thought. We
>didn't care, because we were
>having our own brand of
>hunting fun!
>
>Nowadays hunting seems to be all
>about the trophy stage with
>big racks and even bigger
>egos, guides pimping out big
>bucks and bulls for the
>wealthy shooter (spider) and making
>sure the hero shot gets
>published somewhere. Tags can also
>be hard to come by
>unless you are flush with
>cash then it's no problem.
>Hunting has lost its innocence
>and become too much of
>a ego trip / rich
>mans sport so I've mostly
>moved on to other pursuits.
>It's too bad where hunting
>has gone in my opinion.
>



I'll second that!

ike
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 09:46PM (MST)[p]very interesting topic.

my story is one that makes me struggle to know what stage i am in. i grew up hunting deer with my dad and generally just loved spending time with him. i killed 5 or 6 deer - does and small bucks - by the time i was 16, but i dont know that i would have continued in the sport on my own, without my dad continuing to take and encourage me.

then, when i was 17, i killed a trophy - a 185 inch whitetail - with a shotgun. all the attention i got (in a small agricultural town) from killing the biggest deer in the area that year and from having people i didnt know come over to see the deer and getting my name in the paper, really got me into "trophy hunting."

i always enjoyed harvesting any deer, but killing a big one sure was more fun than killing a little one. after that, i started reading hunting magazines and watching videos that glorified the trophies. i hunted more and i hunted harder. i became much more choosey with the deer i would shoot at. i've killed a couple nice bucks since then as well, by passing on the smaller deer that i probably would have otherwise taken.

now, i live a few states away and i hunt by myself because i love the pursuit of a "trophy buck." however, now that i have kids of my own and a family to feed, i really want to fill my tag, even if it means killing a doe. and these days, a filled tag is a successful season in my opinion and a trophy is simply icing on the cake...delicious, delicious icing.

what stage does that put me in? i'm curious of other's thoughts...

regardless, where-ever i land in a given season - holding out for the trophy or killing the first meat that walks by - i refuse to let others opinions of what a successful hunt is hijack my experience or efforts as a hunter.

mshred
 
>what stage does that put me
>in? i'm curious of other's
>thoughts...

It puts you in the Sportsman Stage. You see the whole picture and understand the process.
 
I love to hunt for a trophy but I have eaten tag soup many years. I let the little bucks grow. The last couple of years at last light and last day of hunting season I fill my "A" with a doe. Were am I on the scale?








"Let's keep things in perspective.I mean for Peet's sake there are kids in Africa that don't even hunt....hello" Jimmy Big Time
 
I have gone through each stage and I a only 32. I never did harvest a lot of trophies but I have found that I enjoy the "experience" more than the antlers.

When I am hunting in a limited entry area without my kids I am a "trophy" hunter. When I am hunting with one of my little boys I can shoot a spike and just share the experience and it feels like success.

Each situation is different but I am in a different stage on any given week depending on that situation.


"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
I know one thing for sure. All of the guides charge the trophy stage prices just to open another can of worms. Maybe not all of us want to go out and kill a B&C animal but just a good representative of the species on a guided hunt where you don't have to worry about anything. You would think there would be outfitters out there to meet this demand in the market, but they all want the big money!!!!
 
I agree with eel's post. especially in Utah. We hear about guys every year that want to change good things cause their kids don't have a chance to hunt trophy bucks and bulls every year?? there is truth in a lot of their arguments. but I didn't even know what a LE unit was till I was 18, nor did I care. Took several bucks and bulls with general tags, and was damn happy with them.a few of them bigger than what guys pull off their prized LE hunts. But I guess that such things aren't possible anymore?

Maximize the opportunity that is available these days for kids,which is a heck of a lot more than it was just 15 years ago. And if hunting is gonna be a passion for them, they will get those great tags in due time, one way or another.
 
I think I'm at the "I'm a glutten for punishment" stage! I bought a bow last year and have all archery tags. Man! I thought that I worked hard for my rifle animals!
 
You forgot to include the poaching stage. ROFDL!


4a9df39b7d637eb0.jpg


silly liberals, paychecks are for workers!
 
To each their own. I have never been a trophy hunter and view myself to be more at the Sportsman Stage. Thus, if there is an implied sequence of progress through these different stages -- one must first pass through stage A before passing to stage B -- I think that notion is wrong. For me it has always been primarily about the experience and particularly the quality of the experience. Being in the fall woods with a centerfire rifle in my hands is very satisfying. To be there in the dark, to feel the excitement as the light comes up, to hear the sounds of the woods as it comes alive. I take satisfaction in the elements of hunting -- dressing appropriately for the weather, so I'm comfortable and able to hunt well, being able to care for my meat when my animal is down, being able to navigate through the woods and/or mountains, choosing a spot from which to hunt that combines shadow, concealing brush, advantageous wind orientation, etc. I like to take home game animals because I like to eat their meat -- it features in my best meals at my house, and I'm the cook. I handle the meat from start to finish -- field dressing, skinning, quartering, butchering, packaging, and finally cooking. Notwithstanding, I can be satisfied with a good hunt if I don't take home meat.

With reference to trophy hunting, I have some problems with that. I do not argue against anyone hunting in any legal manner. We are all brother hunters. Notwithstanding, it seems inherent in the idea of trophy hunting that exceptional specimens are the object of the hunt. Exceptional means above average, likely substantially above average. How does one quantify this? Maybe by saying a trophy buck has a rack that is better than 80% of other mature bucks; maybe by saying a trophy buck has a rack that is better than 98% of other mature bucks. In some sense, the definition must be numerical in this sense. Sure, maybe initially one could say "My first bull elk was a 4x4. I'm not shooting another until I find a 5x5." OK, maybe the percentage approach doesn't apply there. But it doesn't take long migrating along this path, I believe, before you get into the numbers game. When you are at this point, you need to begin selecting particular units that are known to possess these 98 percentile bulls. YOu need to pay an outfitter/guide to take you into this country. You need to apply years for the points (or just pay $100,000 to buy a Governor's tag!) to draw the elite units. This seems very far away from the virtues of hunting to me. The virtues of hunting are not characterized by the size of your wallet or the number of years you have been applying for a LE permit. These factors that are most determinative of taking 98 percentile bulls could be mastered and practiced by Gloria Steinem or Pamela Anderson. The actual riding in on the horse, having your guide handhold you to the shooting spot, is anticlimatic, in some sense.

But that is just my opinion. Others are free to disagree and hunt in any manner they see fit. I'm not judging them. I'm just describing how I feel about hunting. I'm as happy taking a doe or a cow as taking a buck or a bull, probably more happy, as the does and cows usually taste better, and in my book hunting is fundamentally about putting meat on the table. I am not a subsistence hunter. Considering the money I spend to put a pound of elk meat in the freezer or venison meat in the freezer, I would be money ahead buying my meat down at the grocery store rather than hunting. That isn't the point. The point is that the basic rational and tradition of hunting is posited on eating. Also, if you are hunting animals without the intention or purpose of eating them, that seems like a perversion to me.
 

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