What states have you quit applying and building points in??

NMPaul

NMPaul

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For a few reasons, over the last 5 years I have quit applying in certain states even though I had a lot of money invested in points.

Partly because of how the games keep changing in different states with points, quality, time invested to hunt a unit your not familiar with, $ it takes to hunt out of state.
Partly because of the opportunities I have in the state I live in.

This year I will not be applying in UT. I have 11 points for elk and moose.
Still a ways for one of the premium hunts, and I do not want to go all the way to UT for a average hunt.

Last year I quit applying in OR. I had 10 points in all species

I quit applying in ID 4 years ago.

Quit applying in CO for elk 2 years ago even though I had 9 points.
Still build points for other species in CO.

Really thinking about pulling out of MT sheep, goat, moose. Have 10 points

Thinking about pulling out of NV. Have 10 points each species.

Gonna stay in WY since I have max points.

Wasted a lot of money over the years and I am thinking that to stay on the hamster wheel is just throwing good money after bad.


Anyone else feeling the same way?

Anyone think it worth sticking with these states?
 
I'm out of Montana, too much money for an average tag.

I don't know what your looking for, but 11 points will get you a pretty good elk tag in Utah.
 
>I'm out of Montana, too much
>money for an average tag.
>
>
>I don't know what your looking
>for, but 11 points will
>get you a pretty good
>elk tag in Utah.


I have some pretty good elk hunting in NM.

Cant see spending the money and the time to learn a unit I will never get to hunt again for a average quality/potential hunt.
That or pay big bucks on a outfitter.

I have looked back on the 10+ guided hunts I have been on and I have only enjoyed a couple. One of those we never even took a shot.
I look back on my DIY hunts and I have enjoyed almost everyone even though many no tag was filled.

Maybe, I just have found out what I enjoy more over the years.
 
I'm still in the game for most states . I quit Wyoming Sheep with 9 points due to the high price for the point , and the years left it would take to draw a tag .

I'll quit New Mexico if this new law is passed and there is only 2 % for non residents .

I keep telling myself to give up on Idaho , but I buy the license every year for a bear hunt and after that its cheap to put in .
 
I look at each state every year and wonder if it is worth it. Last year I quit ID and OR. I drew WY moose and will not be starting over and already dropped out on sheep there. I have alot of points in some states and as soon I cash out I am done. If I can get a tag that I really want in 10-15 years I will add up the cost see if it is better to try and get a landowner tag. It is still usally cheaper to keep applying. I think I am out about $1200 in nonrefundables a year.
 
Idaho and Oregon. Idaho is my last resort, back up plan. Luckily, I havn't needed it for the last several years.

Don P.
 
I HAVE DROPPED......IDAHO, MONTANA,OREGON, & AFTER MY DEER HUNT UTAH ......IF I EVEN GET TO GO (12POINTS).....MIGHT BE NEXT...........YD.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 08:55PM (MST)[p]This is my last year for Utah Deer.

You have 10 points in MT for Sheep (I thought 9 was max points though), dont drop that one, you should see a tag in the next couple years.

I know two people who drew the breaks sheep tag with far less points.
 
I along with alot of other people are going to quit NM if the new law passes. Just not worth it to keep throwing money away on something that you will never draw.
 
After the fall-out from the USO case, I dropped Arizona and Oregon. Idaho was next due to the high cost and low draw odds for sheep and goat. I dropped out of New Mexico because of the long shot odds at a sheep and ibex tag.

In 2008, I cashed in 15 Colorado elk points for an average elk hunt in area 61. In 2010, I spent 10 points for a decent deer hunt in 21. I won't build elk points in Colorado, but may collect a few deer points. I have max points for sheep and will continue to apply.

I also have max points for Montana sheep, and may cash them in for a ewe hunt. I dropped out of the moose and goat drawings years ago.

I have 12 points for elk in Utah, and will quit applying there when I draw a permit (hopefully in 2011).

I have a ton of points in Nevada, and will keep them. In spite of the high application costs and low draw odds, Nevada was home for 20 years. Any chance to go back is worth it.

Moved to Wyoming in 2008. Thank goodness there aren't any points games to play for deer, elk and antelope! I have enjoyed more hunting the past 2 years because of the opportunity that is afforded a Wyoming resident.
 
When I draw AZ elk win or lose Im done there. Quit UT and MT and go hunting in WY every year. NM isn't sounding very good right now and if they go to a point system and make you buy a hunting lic. to apply Im not interested. I love hunting but Im sick of the cost of it. In some states there getting to be like the oil companys....just raise the price.
 
dropped OR last year
MT this year, too many wolves
might drop NV this year, I only got a couple points
flyingbrass
cold dead hands
NRA Life Member
 
I think you're getting out of some great states for the wrong reasons, especially with the points you have accumulated. I would say there are a half dozen tags there with your name on them, within 5 years. If you just don't want to go there, fine. Just about any limited entry tag in any state is "better than average" and with the people here on MM and their help, it can beat the heck out of a guided hunt for fun and success!

I have gotten out of a couple for purely economic reasons or timing of the seaons relating to others I prefer, but still try to draw in a lot more.
 
Got out of WY moose and sheep ( had 5 points)

out of Oregon

going to be out of NM if the new law passes.

I love MT but they pissed me off this year. I might just put in and if i draw a license try for special permits. If I don't draw they I will probably turn the license back in for a refund.
 
My UT hunt didn't come close to the action we see in NM but I sure wouldn't toss that tag in the dumpster.

As for Oregon, well, you know I drive out of this state to hunt....
 
Burned my Utah elk points last year, so I'm on the five year waiting list. Will be 54 years old before I can apply again. Just don't envision another Utah elk hunt in my lifetime?

My 2010 NR license was still active when the application period opened for 2011, so I applied for deer and four OIL species. Since the NR rules changed, odds for those OIL tags went through the roof. Big decision on Utah will be next year?

Zero points in NV, OR, MT, and ID. Still playing the game in CO, WY, and AZ. No delusions of ever drawing primo elk tags in any of the three, but should get the opportunity to hunt. Could draw a decent WY moose tag now....if I could find the time to squeeze that hunt in. Once the moose points are gone, they're gone.

Like many have said, the future of NM applications depends on the outcome of proposed legislation.

Unlike many have said, potential changes in MT would likely add that state to my list for elk and deer in 2012.
 
No more Colo. elk, as I can go OTC in Idaho and it is alot closer travel wise.

Montana----just Sheep now.

N.Mex as I only did 1 unit appl. and if all that mess falls in place I am out, even that 1 unit appl.

So just Wyo/Ut/Az/Nv

Robb
 
I had some money problems last draw season and backed off on OR, UT, and NV. I still drew for CO and WY. This year I'm in a bit better shape so I'm going to get back in NV and just points for UT. I'm letting my 13 points for OR go as their policy of very few tags and then givng then to outfitters has really turned me off. OR sucks!


Venison and Zinfandel are GOOD!
 
ID,Ore,NV and soon to be added to that list NM

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Got to figure quality potential, draw odds, and cost...

For sure OR is the worst nonresident deal out there...small nonresident chance at hunts, and even the best are mediocre..I'l never do them again.

I only do ID if I thing there's a good chance I'll hunt OTC that year, for sure not an every year thing..

Of course, NM will be dropped if they make the proposed change to ORish 2% nonresident regular draw. (OR id 5%, but the guide draw cherry picks half the primo tags)
 
Here are a couple posts I just made on AT for a new guy seeking advice on just getting started applying:

Post 1:

You need to be real careful and understand the game is changing since I got in it 15 years ago. Many states have really boxed themselves in a corner cheapening the points they sold years ago, like to me. I have 254 bonus/preference points over about about 10 states. The majority of them have been significantly watered down over the years by various means.......whatever the states can think to make more money at the point holders expense: Lower NR quotas; shifting to outfitter welfare tags; shifting to raffle tags; shifting to auction tags; changing to selling multiple points per applicant; forcing you to buy an unwanted license to preserve your points, etc, etc, etc. Some places have cheapened them so much the hunters quit applying and just lost their points, like Oregon & Wyoming sheep & moose. It's a sad testament to greed and cheating people.

Study each state's point system but understand you could pay a lot of money up front to buy points only to have the state devalue them later. You can't really make a plan any more because you don't know who will screw you next.

As of today (could change tomorrow) Idaho & New Mexico are best places for a chance to draw this year because they don't have points. If you want to buy some points which still have value, Colorado is best and they tend to treat NR's very well. After that Wyoming but they have proven they aren't afraid to screw you later. Then Nevada & Arizona best for trophy hunts but will take a long time with high up front fees. But you should be aware you will have zero chance of drawing in most AZ units for at least a few years due to their system which it will take you one year just to figure out, partially.

Forget about Oregon, Utah, Maine, New Hampshire & Vermont. I don't care if you're 15 years old and have lots of time to wait, you will still die of old age before you draw anything decent in these states.............and be out a lot of coin.


Post 2:

I could fill up 2 pages with specific examples of these point cheapening laws. And during that same time about zero laws that improved the value of points. Perhaps the AZ loyalty point? If anyone can think of one let us know!

What I really wonder is where all this will end. Each year the systems morph more and more resulting in getting public tags into the hands of the wealthy, and depositing those funds into state coffers. And more towards distributing the remaining tags to the poor and average joe by creating lotteries with PowerBall Lotto odds. This seems to be the way states want to maximize profit, get the masses to each throw away a little. As this whole morphing has been taking place, the states are realizing the points they sold us original guys are obstructing profits to be made from new guys. Due to all the point holders, the odds for the new guys suck, discouraging investment. Thus, the solution seems to be to screw the original guys who have been waiting and investing for years.

One other tactic is to confuse the new guys into thinking they actually have a chance to draw in their lottery when in fact they don't. Examples: Arizona & Wyoming sheep/moose.

Here are my rankings for the most guilty point cheapeners in the US over the last 15 years:

1. Maine
2. Oregon
3. Utah
4. Arizona
5. Nevada
6. Colorado
7. Kansas

This is why new guys should apply in Idaho & New Mexico. They have no points to cheapen!

Now among these the most significant violator is Utah, because Oregon has poor quality and Maine only has moose. Utah is the runaway winner for prostituting public land tags to Kings Hunting Rules where the wealthy hunt. 500+ wealth tags.
 
I feel like I'm in to far to backout now.I should be close for archery elk in AZ,and UT.When and if I draw UT I think I'm done there.Sitting on 9 sheep points in MT I'm going stay in the game(I think with 10 you should to, drawing a BH sheep tag in our state is insane).I'm going to keep banking in CO and NV(I think I have 8 in each) for someday and start hunting in WY,I have max points.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 08:39AM (MST)[p]NMPaul,

Now, getting back to your original question, I am about exactly in your same place now. I have decided to get out of about half the states I am applying for, but am hanging in there until I can burn my points in those states.

States I have quit already: Wyoming sheep, Montana, Idaho, Kansas, Iowa

States I will quit after points burned: Wyoming moose, Oregon, Utah, Maine, New Hampshire

Undecided but hanging in for now: Nevada, Arizona

States which I will burn current points on good hunts but afterwards will not attempt to save for high quality tags, just meat hunts: Colorado, Wyoming


If I were you with those point totals I would be burning some before dropping out.

Can you imagine new guys getting into these games now, starting with zero points! Many of these guys have no idea how it used to be and maybe consider Lotto Ball odds the norm???

What I know for sure is it's no longer about hunting tradition, just money.

New Mexico hanging in the balance of course. Anything resulting in less than 10% of the tags reserved for NR's unguided and I will quit. Even then if they have the $90 application fee and points, I won't get in that game.
 
A lot of truth in that post by Zim, One thing should be mentioned though, and thats how Eastmans, especially Carters and a few others have really changed the game. My favorite example, I drew a Colo area 61 first season bull tag with 2 points, had a great hunt, saved up two more points and drew the same tag again, I have been getting points ever since and have 12 now, I am not even close to getting that same tag again, and probably will never have enough points to draw. Thats not CDOWs fault. I would say overall that the Huntin fool has done more to cheapen the odds than any wildlife dept ever thought of.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 09:36AM (MST)[p]Stopped applying in New Mexico, mostly because I could not build points. Stopped in Colo, because the good units are so difficult to draw. Stopped applying in Wyoming, mostly because it is really far from San Diego and I'm afraid of Grizzlies... :eek:
 
Took my uncle 36 years to draw his sheep tag for last year,as a resident in MT,dont get your hopes up,those bonus points only keep you EVEN with the thousands of others that apply.
 
I lost track of Idaho, you have to buy a general hunting license to participate in the drawings, right? And you do not get a refund on your general hunting license if you do not draw a premium hunt, right?

They do not have bonus and/or preference points yet?

If you are applying for premium elk you do not need to pay for the elk license if you do not draw, right?

Thanks
Bill
 
I stopped WY sheep, never was going to get there but stayed in the moose chase.

AZ changed the rules and I never was going to get the tags I wanted so I dropped there. NM was dropped as I never drew a tag and was far from home, if I drew a tag it would have been a crap shoot.

Colorado deer is my priority every year through vouchers, saving the money I used to throw in every direction and know I will be hunting for quality mule deer.

I continue to play in Wyoming, Nevada, Montana (deer) only because I have a place to hunt and Oregon because I live here.

I think too many people are sheep and follow the magazines and the latest trends. If you have a plan and stick to it there are plenty of opportunities out there even on a limited budget, but if you have to hunt the henry's, the strip, montana breaks sheep and so forth you will always be disappointed no matter how many points you have. If you read about the next best unit in a magazine it is already too late

Rich
 
I haven't really quit in any states because I never really have gotten started in any of them.

I actually have 1 elk point in Montana from 2007, I have an elk point in Wyoming and am hoping to get another point this year there along with a tag.

I have 1 elk point in Utah and applied this year on the same license as last year and also put in for mountain goat and bighorn sheep there.

That's it for points for me. At 42 I think I'm too late to really even start. I look at Utah more for the tiny lotto chance of a random draw there than the fact that I'm building points.

It is really eye opening to see someone with as many points in as many states as you have thinking that it is fruitless. If that is the case I'm completely out of luck.

I was very lucky last year with New Mexico getting an Elk, Deer and Antelope tag in the same year, and I've done some pretty good research on it with it being next door and have already applied for Oryx and Elk again this year, probably will apply for deer again this year but not antelope. If the 2% thing passes I don't know what I'll do there. Probably still apply since I'm so far behind on points everywhere else. Maybe enough people will drop out that my odds won't be much worse than they were. (Wishful thinking I'm sure)

I'm thinking about applying in Idaho this year for mountain goat and maybe starting to apply in Colorado for goats. Seems to me that they are attainable maybe since most of the big spenders are going for sheep.

My son is 4 years old so I can't start applying for him yet, but the second he is eligible I will be applying for him in every state I can.
 
Zim, good post.

I agree with almost everything you said. Changing the rules, cheapening the points, making building the points expensive have really put a bad taste in my mouth.

Last year I bought 3 bull tags in my unit for me, my son and my wife. I spent what I would have spent on one out of state guided hunt.
we had more fun, hunted from our house, killed 2 decent bulls, and saved that long drive home thinking that the guided hunt WAFJ.

I could burn the points on some hunts, but, I would still spend about what I could buy a tag in NM for or more.

Piper, I dont blame Hunting Fool or Eastman's. All they are is a source of information.
What people do with it is up to them. This is not the political forum so I will not get into that whole philosophy, but, supplying information to people that want to hunt is just fine with me.

I cannot point at an individual and blame them because there are lots of people that want quality hunts and less opportunities then there are hunters.

My job is try to stay one step ahead of them.


I guess what finally swayed me the most, the last few out of state hunts that we drew, we did not have the time to do them right with all the hunts we had close to home.
 
don't put in to many states.. but arizona will be dropped as soon as i draw. 11 points for elk.. utah is real close and I fish there alot, 9 deer 2 elk..I always buy nr fish and small game licence anyways. i will keep puttin in. maybe wyoming in the future?
 
Oregon- what a joke

Utah- drew elk in 05 and why bother now it will take me another 15 years to draw an avg unit

Many states Sheep tags

New Mexico- Flipping the bird to non res DIY guys with that 2%.
Prediction; They will be scrambling with excuses in the 3rd year [when the DIY guys figure out they have a snowballs chance- why apply] More of the same "money talks" political decisions- ie. Landowners, cattleman, outfitters and the avg NM res won't say anything because they have a few extra tags to pacify them.
 
I dropped Montana sheep and goat, Colorado elk and antelope and Idaho; Think I will hang it up in Utah as well. Brian
 
NMPaul-

I think this should be posted in each of the State specific forums and not in general hunting..

I'm just giving you crap since I know you really didn't like the UT posts in GH forum! :)

I quit NM last year with up front fees. I WILL NEVER APPLY IN NM AGAIN IF THERE'S 2% TAGS AND UPFRONT FEES.

Don't you hate the guys that use CAPS to make a point? Very annoying.. Oh wait, that's me.

Quit NV and AZ a few years ago, having kids makes putting food on table and shoes on feet more important than getting points in those states although another Desert Sheep hunt might be might dream huntof a lifetime so giving them up sucks.

Still will pursue hunts in ID, CO, and WY.

Good thread.
 
I might quit a few more. It is really about spending the maximum amount of time in the field.I recently started hunting with a recurve bow and I been hunting hogs and doe deer and I still get to have lots of fun. Kinda nice to sleep in my own bed and see the kids every night and there is no pressure like on a big hunt.
As long as I get to hunt, I'm good.
flyingbrass
cold dead hands
NRA Life Member
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11
>AT 08:39?AM (MST)
>
>NMPaul,
>
>Now, getting back to your original
>question, I am about exactly
>in your same place now.
> I have decided to
>get out of about half
>the states I am applying
>for, but am hanging in
>there until I can burn
>my points in those states.
>
>
>States I have quit already: Wyoming
>sheep, Montana, Idaho, Kansas, Iowa
>
>
>States I will quit after points
>burned: Wyoming moose, Oregon, Utah,
>Maine, New Hampshire
>
>Undecided but hanging in for now:
>Nevada, Arizona
>
>States which I will burn current
>points on good hunts but
>afterwards will not attempt to
>save for high quality tags,
>just meat hunts: Colorado, Wyoming
>
>
>
>If I were you with those
>point totals I would be
>burning some before dropping out.
>
>
>Can you imagine new guys getting
>into these games now, starting
>with zero points! Many
>of these guys have no
>idea how it used to
>be and maybe consider Lotto
>Ball odds the norm???
>
>What I know for sure is
>it's no longer about hunting
>tradition, just money.
>
>New Mexico hanging in the balance
>of course. Anything resulting
>in less than 10% of
>the tags reserved for NR's
>unguided and I will quit.
> Even then if they
>have the $90 application fee
>and points, I won't get
>in that game.


zim

i'm trying to figure out how you have max points for every hunt in utah ? seen alot of your posts . trying to figure out which one isn't B.S.?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 11:33PM (MST)[p]ZIM-I agree with Zim a lot. UT is a prostitute but I have been flamed in the past since this is mostly a UT forum. UT has mistreated hunters since one had to choose either deer or elk. Many wont remember but I do and it changed in 1995, when you could actually hunt both again, ever since then its been abuse and exploitation. Abuse became most rapant since early 2000 when SFW really became a power house driven by lemmmings(I was never a member).

NONYAMT-Okay, it took your uncle 36 years to get a tag. For many years that was luck of the draw, period. Since 2001 Montana's had bonus points for sheep. I love Montana's system. Every year you dont draw you get an extra name in the hat. SO 0 points = 1 name in the hat.....2 points=3 names in the hat
(2 points plus the current year application).....
9 points =10 names in the hat....BOTTOM line everyone has a chance.

Utah does not have that allure.

PIPER-the magazines are not to blame for poor state management. I like the advice given on area's and strategies ect.... Do I suck it all up and just apply as they say? no.

PIPER-Great you love "CDOW". I agree they did great things when they cut tags in half and doubled the fees. Look at Colorado Deer hunting as a result, better than "the good old days".
You just need some type of blame as it will never be good enough.

Utah could have learned something but since they have the Henries, Pauns, and Books for deer they think they are awesome. Well they think DON is awesome anyway.

To all, I once got flamed over the cost of applying for tags....I am just sick of the abuse of NR's.

Dont really know much about OR but after reading this I would not want to learn more.

By next year it will only be ALL MT species, deer/antelope WY, and deer CO. There are other great hunts in other states but I am just limited to what I can do and pay for.
 
At 63, I've got 16 moose points in Utah. Next 3 years that rock will roll. Then I'm done here at home for once in a life time.

4 points for general deer hunt in Utah, will keep buying point but refuse to kill another deer in Utah on general season until the decline reverses. Not holding my breath.

5 points for deer LE in Utah, it's worth it to keep this one moving forward for a few more years, never get a premium unit again but maybe a CMWU some time before the legs are gone.

I've got 10 pt. moose in Wy, if the Utah bull is representative I'll pass on the WY draw, $1500.00 for a DYI on the wolf left overs, no thanks, I'll drop it.

5 for Wy deer, will keep buying pref but hoping the deer age gets legs in Wy again before I loose mine.

4 for Wy antelope, I'm not a "trophy" hunter so a nice mature antelope is all I'm after so this might be my "primary hunt" in 2011. May as well us these points because I don't need the best unit for this hunt.

3 pt. in Colorado for deer, will keep buying points for two more years, hope for some mild winters then burn the points on a "average" unit. After that, landowner tag or stay home. Don't expect a mature buck out of Colorado, a 3 year old would be a pleasant surprise, based on the units I'll have points to draw.

I have 6 pts. in Kansas, no clue what to do with those, no land to hunt and I've been told the State NR hunts have been watered down and pretty much anyone with a point can draw, most likely drop these this year or next.

I'm hoping to feather things out for at least one fun hunt a year for the next 5 years and by then I'll be just aboutbe ready to "grow up" and see if Mrs. C wants to go do something. She's been waiting for 40 years.

I get most of my hunting "jollies" these days from tagging along with my children and now my grandchildren. Truthfully, at my age, helping them is pretty darn gratifying.

The point business is maturing, I think a train wreck might be headed our way before long. The courts are going to take control of it because no one in the State game agencies has the courage to press the reset button. Poor rascals, its a mess.

DC
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 04:31AM (MST)[p]Zim..You are right. The UT wealth tags are making points nearly worthless for UT nonresidents. You were lucky enough to hit your bison tag before they raided the draw for wealth tags so hard...Last year, just one nonresident tag each, so no preference tag at all for bison...15 points, with my and the pools above me not being reduced by a single tag draw...Points are worthless without the second tag!

And now that they have let the masses apply to sell more licenses and applications...Nonresidents can apply for everything...Loooking at really poor draw odds in the luck pool!
 
Shotgun- the point I was trying to make is businesses like the hunting fool make money by getting people to apply, apply and apply, they tell thousands about everyones hard earned areas, some even have money having application services, you do understand how that works? This makes tags harder to draw, so when the odds get harder, then the different states have pressure to weigh the odds of drawing a tag towards those that are long term applicants and giving more preference towards residents. Nevada squared the points, Utah gave 50% to those with the most points, Wyoming did 75%, Arizona went with a maximum point pool, Colorado cut the available nonresident tags, ect. These thing all occured after people like me started spending money on getting points. The terrible odds of drawing a tag is probably the main reason people are getting out of the game, and it sounds like the young are getting discouraged also. I have up to 19 points in the Nevada game, 15 in AZ elk, and I already noted Colorado,in Utah I have 12 Elk, I think?,9 goat and some others and my wife has 15 elk points, anyway I will stick with those states for a while, but am teetering on gettin out of all of them soon. Im a little discouraged to say the least.
 
Put in for one of the late hunt, take Zach out of school for a week and go have a blast. My friend had a late hunt 4 years ago and was a great hunt, he killed one in the 60's the first morning.
Jay
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 09:35AM (MST)[p]"The point business is maturing, I think a train wreck might be headed our way before long. The courts are going to take control of it because no one in the State game agencies has the courage to press the reset button. Poor rascals, its a mess."

Press the reset button.........:D A good analogy! The states have created some monsters with no fair way out. In my opinion the best answer would have been for all to just stay with 100% random draw from the get go. Hopefully NM & ID will learn from these other's mistakes. Once points are created they become an easy target for abuse. And not easy to completely get rid of. I recall NM being the only state that pulled it off?

Yes the lotto ball odds have been aided by HF & Eastman's, but I don't blame them. In the last 15 years the internet explosion in general has educated a lot of new applicants. It's the entire information superhighway that has raised the stakes.

Well in any case, for all you western hunters who are bummed about getting your points screwed, I'm here to cheer you up. How would you like to wait your turn buying one point per year for 8 years then have the state morph their policy like Maine did for their moose hunts...............

Multiple Choice Options and Fees

Participants in the annual moose lottery have had the opportunity of increasing their odds of being selected for a moose hunting permit by purchasing additional chances. The so-called "multiple choice option" works like this:

Maine Residents
$7.00 = One-chance
$12.00 = *Three-chances
$22.00 = *Six-chances

*Maine resident must possess a valid big game hunting license to apply for 3 or 6 chances.

Nonresidents
$15.00 = One-chance
$25.00 = Three-chances
$35.00 = Six-chances
$55.00 = **Ten-chances

** Nonresidents may purchase multiples of 10 chances at $55.00 each. Example: 5 multiples of 10 chances would cost $275.00 (5 x $55.00 = $275.00) :eek:

This is how Maine earned my prestigious ranking of the #1 screwer of point holders. Thank god it damaged only one species. OR & UT had more widespread ramifications.

Feel a little better about your western points now? Maybe just a little?
 
You get an extra name,so do the other 98% of the people who applied and didnt draw,it just keep you even you dont have any advantage over the other guys that didnt draw.Nothing has changed since they started the points system other than the extra cash they make off them,you have to buy them or fall behind,its a scam.
 
The way Utah works, as it has been explained to me, is not an extra name in the pot. This is how it has been explained to me... If a person has ten points they are randomly assigned a number. For this example lets use 100 (they are just as likely to get # 3 etc.). They are the given the following 10 numbers (ten points plus the current year app). So this person would have from 100-110 for a total of 11 times in the draw. All of this adds up to being useless. The only number in the draw is you're lowest. Unless a person is in the bonus point (max point for a given hunt) they are just as likely to get number 100-110 as they are to get 1-11. Either way they are only entered into the draw with their lowest number. The bonus points only get you into the max point draw. I have a bunch of points in Utah and I wish my name was put into the draw that many times. As it was explained to me I am only put in with the lowest number every year until I hit the max point pool for that hunt. I wish they would randomly assign you 11 numbers in the example listed but they don't. You are given sequential numbers. You are only really entered into the draw one time. Wish is wasn?t true but it is.
 
Utah, I believe you are incorrect in the sequential number scheme. I believe they are all random numbers, the lowest of which you keep.
 
Paul, I wouldn't quit Utah with that many points, there are plenty of good units where you can have an excellent hunt with that many points. Unless, you are stuck on "early season rifle" only hunts, then I can understand why you would want to give up.

As for me, I gave up on Colorado elk. New Mexico will be next, if they implement their hair brained 2% plan.
 
As someone who is just starting to play the preference point game, myself and my partners going in are going archery mostly, the odds for rifle on good units anywhere in the west are ridiculous. If you are not able to pull back a bow, muzzleloader odds beat rifle most of the time.

I just like to get afield and will do that with OTC archery tags. At this time I'm not putting in in any state that makes me buy a license to get a point. AZ, UT, NV included. If I am not coming to your state to hunt at all I don't think its fair that I have to buy a license for a chance to hunt. Its money hungry and silly. I think they ought to up all the point/app fees kind of like Wyoming has it instead of having to buy a license and pay cheaper point fees.

If residents had to pay non-resident tag prices in most western states, how much do you think their draw odds would go up?

I don't mind playing a lottery with long odds for a great tag (MT bighorn, some NM premium units) but several draws are so backlogged with point holders, there is no point in starting. I have excluded WY sheep at this time for that reason.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-11 AT 01:52PM (MST)[p]coondog......."i'm trying to figure out how you have max points for every hunt in utah ? seen alot of your posts . trying to figure out which one isn't B.S.?"

In which of my posts do I claim to have max points for anything in Utah??? Although if it weren't for Don Peay, SFW & the lemmings I wouldn't have any deer points there because I would have drawn years ago. If you can disprove ANYTHING I have posted, have at it! Oh wait........let me guess........you are still waiting for SFW disclosure.


Doenob, Sounds like you have done your homework. One thing I'd suggest is don't waste your time waiting for anything HF rates in their top 10. That's what even I'd have done for many. It's not worth the time & money when often the increase in quality is minimal. This suggestion does not apply to all guys. I mean if a guy is in the top point pool it's a different thing, but for new guys the wait would be prohibitive. There is often great hunting in unranked units. Those top 10 attract an inordinate number of applicants given the quality. For instance, even with max points in Wyoming, the unit I selected not only does not appear in their top 10, but not even anywhere on their ratings for "good" hunts. I did my own research.
 
I'm really surprised at how few hunters are seeing the bigger picture. Just here on MM do you see how many hunters are giving up hunting in other states? It seems to me a socialist agenda of divide and conquer through resident vs. non resident (see NM),financial exclusion, AK non-resident guide requirements, Wyomings wilderness area non resident exclusions, and through simply wearing you down by the whole complexity of the application processes,nearly impossible to comprehend laws, rules, regulations, etc.....
Hunt while you can!!!! Say what you will, but this is a socialist/progressive movement. It happens in incremental steps so no-one will notice.
WAKE UP AND STOP THIS BS!!!!!
 
>Paul, I wouldn't quit Utah with
>that many points, there are
>plenty of good units where
>you can have an excellent
>hunt with that many points.
>Unless, you are stuck on
>"early season rifle" only hunts,
>then I can understand why
>you would want to give
>up.
>
>As for me, I gave up
>on Colorado elk. New Mexico
>will be next, if they
>implement their hair brained 2%
>plan.


I do not see the 2% plan in NM going anywhere. I do believe there will be changes, but, not that bad.

My priorities have changed over the last 10 years. In regards to hunting states like UT. It makes no sense for me to go all the way up there for a slightly above average elk hunt, when I can do the same here for less money and time. And I am close enough to learn the unit well in the offseason.
 
Most of those "top rated" units are good ones to apply to if you don't really want to draw the hunt, you just want to build a point so you have a better chance at a decent unit the following year.

All I want is decent antelopes, 180 inch mulies and decent 6x6 elks, I don't need my name in any book. Not every place can do that, but there's plenty that aren't blue chip or top 10, just gotta find them and get familiar. Eastman's does preach a truism, you are better off hunting a medium quality unit for several years and getting to know the terrain and the behavior of the animals than you are putting in for the top units and going in cold when you draw the tag.
 
I have hunted a few states in my life, I would hesitate to call most of the LE units in Utah slightly above average. Sure, you may not kill a 390 bull in most units, but you may have a chance. I chased a 383 bull for four days on an archery hunt in Utah in one of those slightly above average units and took home a 330 5x5 last year. My buddy killed a 363 bull in an archery hunt in another of those slightly above average units this last year. Just because HF and Eastmans doesn't rate the unit like Pahvant or San Juan, doesn't mean it is not a good unit and in realit it they are better than most units in the Western United States.

But, they are your points and you can decide what to do with them. I personlly would burn them on a good "Slightly above Average" unit and go kill a 320-350 bull, or at least have fun trying. But, that is me.
 
Maine? Really? Maine? You're the only cat on here who even cares about Maine! (oops, maybe you live there)
And to top it all off, you bash Utah? Wow!

Silly boy. I don't think I can relate to your logic.

Zeke
 
>Most of those "top rated" units
>are good ones to apply
>to if you don't really
>want to draw the hunt,
>you just want to build
>a point so you have
>a better chance at a
>decent unit the following year.
>
>
>All I want is decent antelopes,
>180 inch mulies and decent
>6x6 elks, I don't need
>my name in any book.
> Not every place can
>do that, but there's plenty
>that aren't blue chip or
>top 10, just gotta find
>them and get familiar.
> Eastman's does preach a
>truism, you are better off
>hunting a medium quality unit
>for several years and getting
>to know the terrain and
>the behavior of the animals
>than you are putting in
>for the top units and
>going in cold when you
>draw the tag.

Given today's draw odds & application costs, what you describe makes all the more sense. I am lucky to have 3 nice elk on the wall, and don't need any more. My elk apps are already geared for more fun hunts. As I cash out my high points the next few years my entire strategy will change to applying for fewer states, medium quality units I can draw multiple times. I expect to do this regardless of what happens to the bonus point train wreck that is coming.
 
EVILNR, you are not overly bright, socialist hunting is what we have now, I honestly don't know what your talking about when you say progressive agenda. TR was known as a progressive, do you know who he was? probably not, but anyway he is the main reason everyday citizens can hunt. Before you open your mouth, try to think a little, and come over to the political forum, if you need a lesson.
 
>EVILNR, you are not overly bright,
> socialist hunting is what
>we have now, I
>honestly don't know what your
>talking about when you say
>progressive agenda. TR was known
>as a progressive, do you
>know who he was?
>probably not, but anyway he
>is the main reason everyday
>citizens can hunt. Before
>you open your mouth, try
>to think a little, and
>come over to the political
>forum, if you need a
>lesson.

Only thing you will accomplish in the political forum is waste a bunch of time and listen to a couple of blowhards trying real hard to make people think they are smart.

Bout, the only lesson they can teach you in the political forum is how to waste time.

At least I got to give piper props for at least being a hunter and getting out of that forum every once in awhile.
***********************************

Margaret Thatcher: "The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money."


"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own." - Unknown
 
According to the people running NM no one is going to stop applying there if they cut nonres tags to 2%. I think they might need to reevaluate their numbers.
 
What happened to the posting sequence

PIPER-sorry, I did not mean to offend you......I am an Eastmans subscriber so I did not know that the Fool put put in for tags for you....the fool is just an early DON...or puppet DON


NONYAMT-1 app= "1 name in the hat"........1 app plus 3 points = "4 names in the hat".....1 app plus 9 points = "10 names in the name in the hat".

NOT really sure why you dont understand the system, you think points are a burden..okay...lets go back to all people being equal every year...your so called uncle would still be waiting to draw a tag.........
 
I understand it perfectly,why dont you understand that these points only keep you EVEN with all the other guys that havnt draw,if you dont buy the points you fall behind,everyone buys them so they are practically pointless,you are just paying more to have the same shi*** odds everyone else will have.My "so called uncle",wtf is that supposed to mean?He didnt have any advantage,there hasnt been a points system the whole time,it was started in 2001 for sheep.NOT really sure why you think you should take on every poster here with idiotic responses.
 
Utah !!!! Arizona !!!! and Wyoming !!!! Everyone can figure it out... just do the math.
 
I left Arizona after the first year they had deer PPs and I wasn't at max cause I didn't have the Hunter Safety point.

Dropped out of Oregon last year with 34 points (10 elk, 12 deer and antelope), plus over 20 of my son's I paid for and another 3 for everything for my wife. Not too late to get back in this year as I'm thinking I have a good antelope tag in my future and a decent party elk hunt if we average our PPs.

Nevada? My all time favorite although I'm on time out time for antelope and elk. The license resulted in over 100 chukar this year so I'd buy that regardless and deer is coming soon. And someone has to draw those sheep tags.

Colorado? A 1 pp archery elk hunt every other year and a 3-4 PP deer hunt when I can draw. Other than the up front money, it's cheap. I burned 13 elk and 7 deer points there in the last 4 years so now it's quantity rather than quality. Skunked on last year's archery elk hunt but watching my son, wife and step-son all kill elk during rifle season was as good as a 340 bull of my own. I might be even be able to drive from Susanville to Craig blindfolded I've done it so much.

Wyoming. Play the max point game till I draw a good elk unit. Antelope and deer? Next year we can all draw a nice combo hunt. 9/25 antelope opener and 10/1 deer opener. I expect 70+" antelope and 24+" bucks BUT since it'll be a family event we'll have fun and nobody will be disappointed in anything they take. My wife and son already have 3 elk PPs. When I draw my tag, I'll ride their coat tails to another tag the next year or two. And since I'm paying, they won't even know the difference.

Utah. Have to. My wife wants a moose and her first will probably be Alaska or Canada BUT she's always dangerous in Utah. And the excitement I get out of apply, hoping, dreaming, the $200.00 it costs us each year is worth it.

NM. Currently I use it on the years I don't have an guarantee in Colorado. And I started to learn a new unit 2 years ago. I hope there are no changes. If there are I'm out.

Idaho? Used to use it like NM since there are no PPs. BUT the last 4 years wolves have kept my money in my pocket.

Montana. I hunted archery elk and deer there 7 times but not since they went to PPs. And I believe my general unit is now limited draw for archery too. I'll research that his month. If it is, I guess I'll quit dreaming about Montana. If the unit can be hunted archery with a general tag, I have a friend that wants to start going back archery elk hunting so they'll get my money again.

Like I heard several say. It's not all about trophies, all the time. Nevada and Utah yes. The rest are about family elk hunts or combo antelope/deer hunts.

OBTW, Good luck to everyone in the draws this year.
 

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