Expo Tags Article

>I know a whole mess of
>people who are serious hunters
>who hunt in Utah, many
>more than post on the
>internet and not a single
>one of them cares about
>the percentage of money SFW
>receives from these tags.
>
>The worlds majority opinion isn't voiced
>on a hunting forum.


Once again, TRIPSTER speaking when he shouldnt. They probably are not from Utah. They probably dont care for that reason. Many of us know that these tags came form the public pool tags and so we want whats best for the wildlife. I know alot of guys that hunt here in Utah and Almost every one of them is pissed about this. And granted, you are right (for once), many if not most of them dont post on a public hunting forum.
 
>I know a whole mess of
>people who are serious hunters
>who hunt in Utah, many
>more than post on the
>internet and not a single
>one of them cares about
>the percentage of money SFW
>receives from these tags.
>
>The worlds majority opinion isn't voiced
>on a hunting forum.

That would be hard to believe because most tags are hard to get in Utah in the DWR draws and it's doubtful that even as a taxidermist in Houston that you know more people that hunt there and don't care than those on the net that do. What I'm saying is that statistically it's not very probable. Anyway, the bulk of the rage is, and should be, from the residents of the state of Utah. They are the main ones seeing that money go down the drain because nonresidents aren't applying for anything due to the fact that you have to be there in person to validate and get in the draw.
 
>8mmmag,
>
>Do you believe if someone were
>to throw a banquet for
>you that makes money for
>you they should not be
>compensated fiscally whatsoever? Also
>do you believe that lobbying
>is not an imperative part
>of wildlife conservation?


Sir, I don't think any Elk nor Deer in Utah, asked SFW to raise money to help them get bigger racks on them, so some rich guy could pay 10K-400K to shoot them. I think the big question here on this web post is where is the money going. And whose pockets are getting greased, and how greasy are they!!! 10 Million can buy a lot of grease!
 
Actually guys I was just talking about the guys I know that are apathetic.

Every single person I know from Utah that is a hunter is for the tags and the expo. But I was leaving them out.
 
Yea tris you know a lot of guys from Ut, haha. Like the two good old boys that wiped your azz on one of your guided hunts here. But YOU know lol
 
>Actually guys I was just talking
>about the guys I know
>that are apathetic.
>
>Every single person I know from
>Utah that is a hunter
>is for the tags and
>the expo. But I
>was leaving them out.


Actually that's interesting to me. Where I work, in the past years say, years 1-6 of the Expo. There were about 40 people going to the Expo. In 2016 there was only 1 person I heard of going. All others are feed up, or frustrated with the whole Expo tag thing.
 
Deer and elk don't take Amex either but that doesn't stop them from costing us money to manage and we have to pay PEOPLE to manage and conserve those species.


See you have actually stumbled onto the actual meat of the matter which the guys on this forum don't want to admit to. Yall want to have a discussion of worth. How much money is too much money to pay to get our money? That's the question these guys want answered and they typically have a figure already in their head. The problem with that is everybody has a different figure for that and you never arrive at an answer which all parties can completely agree on. That is why this argument is endless.

The posters on this thread hope to confuse you with stories of %30 versus %100 but that isn't how business math is actually calculated. Nor is the %30 versus the %100 the only money in question. There is a much larger some of money which that money is sister to which goes along in this formula. They have oversimplified one variable and hope that you will only pay attention to that and pass judgment with that little bit of partial info.
 
8mmmag,

Attendance is up and I know more people that fly to it now than I ever have.

Deerlove I never said I know a ton of people in Utah. I know about ten. They are all happy with the expo.

Like I said a internet click doesn't mean you are a majority.
 
Trip,

Think before you type. It clear that deer and elk dont take Amex or visa. But the dwr does. And tomorrow ends the time frame that they take that money. And they have lots and lots of other ways the DWR accepts those cards. ONCE AGAIN, THE DWR ACCEPTS THOSE CARDS for the deer and elk and they need to do whats best for them.
 
>8mmmag,
>
>Attendance is up and I know
>more people that fly to
>it now than I ever
>have.
>
>Deerlove I never said I know
>a ton of people in
>Utah. I know about
>ten. They are all
>happy with the expo.
>
>Like I said a internet click
>doesn't mean you are a
>majority.


Pig, you're a lair, you don't know 10 people in Utah. Name them, if you're man enough.
 
>8mmmag,
>
>Attendance is up and I know
>more people that fly to
>it now than I ever
>have.
>
>Deerlove I never said I know
>a ton of people in
>Utah. I know about
>ten. They are all
>happy with the expo.
>
>Like I said a internet click
>doesn't mean you are a
>majority.


Sir, I am not trying to get your undies in a mess. You seem to take this all personal. There is nothing personal about this. This is a public matter that truly effects all sportsmen from Utah. If attendance is up, great, its up from no one I know nor work with. To be honest with all here, there is much more to this topic than just money, or unaccounted for money. So many more side issues related to this Expo, the money, and the influence that SFW has had over the DWR for years. Don't forget SFW has had its people on the Regional RAC committee's for years....they have influenced decisions to the DWR like, Management Objectives, Age class for the Units, and season dates for hunting, tag allocations. SFW has directly and indirectly effected every hunter in this state one way or another. Good day to all.
 
8mmmag,

my undies ain't in a mess and none of this is personal and I haven't said one thing to you which should make you believe such. I do find it interesting how you came on here claiming not to know what is going on but in this post you seem to want to set me straight on it.

However you did say this.

"there is much more to this topic than just money or unaccounted for money"

This is exactly what I have been telling people on here but very few are being honest about their objectives.
 
With money and no transparency/accountability, youre right, there is much more to this. But the 1st objective is to come clean and become accountable and transparent.....Then after that, if they do that, it will clear up A LOT!!!
 
So what happens Robiland when you know exactly what each person in SFW is making? You're not being truthful if you say it all ends there.
 
>8mm,
>
>Why do you feel the need
>to explain yourself to some
>jackass from some big city
>in TexASS?


My mistake, I'm done here!
 
>8mmmag,
>
>my undies ain't in a mess
>and none of this is
>personal and I haven't said
>one thing to you which
>should make you believe such.
> I do find it
>interesting how you came on
>here claiming not to know
>what is going on but
>in this post you seem
>to want to set me
>straight on it.
>
>However you did say this.
>
>"there is much more to this
>topic than just money or
>unaccounted for money"
>
>This is exactly what I have
>been telling people on here
>but very few are being
>honest about their objectives.


Sir, I did come on here not knowing whats going on in this matter. I have not been on this web site for I think 3-4 years until yesterday. I have not attended the Expo for 4 years now. I just cought the KSL news cast about the Expo and was wondering what the huff was actually about. I came here looking for answers from fellow sportsman from Utah. Those people that must live with and deal with the same issues I have had to deal with and accept over the last 10 years when it comes to hunting in Utah.

I have no objective here. I just wondered what "they" had finally got cought doing. I have no intensions of setting anyone straight. I just spoke the truth of facts.

Have you lived in Utah?
Have you worked for any of the conservation groups in question?
Help me understand why you defend this so much, whats your ties to this Expo, or the people running the show. Or are you just one of them, pulling a "covert op" here.
 
>8mmmag,
>
>Attendance is up and I know
>more people that fly to
>it now than I ever
>have.
>
>Deerlove I never said I know
>a ton of people in
>Utah. I know about
>ten. They are all
>happy with the expo.
>
>Like I said a internet click
>doesn't mean you are a
>majority.


Hey Pig, how do you know attendance was up? Were you there counting? What was last years attendance? What was this years attendance? Do you think the expo going from 3 days to 4 days had anything to do with a supposed increase in attendance?
Answer the questions boy, if have the balls to. And stop with the lies, you look foolish.
 
First of all "they" haven't been "cought" doing anything. Second, I unlike most around here will be completely honest with you. You asked, I will answer.

"Have you lived in Utah?"

No

"Have you worked for any of the conservation groups in question?"

I have not done work for but have donated to and have been a member of both MDF and RMEF.

"Help me understand why you defend this so much, whats your ties to this Expo, or the people running the show. Or are you just one of them, pulling a "covert op" here. "

There is absolutely nothing covert here. I have explained time and again to these boys why I am here and I will tell you. I don't care if SFW hosts the expo or someone else or even if the DWR runs it themselves. But profiting from the tags MUST STAY. It is the only way sustainable numbers of wildlife will progress into the future of the American Landscape. Underpriced welfare tags for the general public have to come to an end. Not because I like it that way but that is the only way the big game in the USA can be managed at this point. All the bickering over several hundred thousand dollars a year, WHICH IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET, could cost yall more than most can understand.

This is the battle between an old system that people grew to depend on and a new system that is the only chance the future of conservation and hunting has. We have kicked the can so far down the road I no longer care about whether you or anyone else for that matter get a deer tag in which they feel entitled to. The wildlife must come first.
 
Trolstate,

I dont care what they make, as long as I am not paying for it out of my tags/public assets. If they want to be paid by donations, awesome, great, good for them. I hope they make millions.
 
Robiland,

You aren't paying one cent for it. In fact you are netting more than if the tags weren't offered. You're complaining about them making more while you are making more off of the same asset.
 
>Robiland,
>
>You aren't paying one cent for
>it. In fact you
>are netting more than if
>the tags weren't offered.
>You're complaining about them making
>more while you are making
>more off of the same
>asset.


Where is the bear spray?
 
Robiland,

That's the truth! You know it. Just because it doesn't jive with your agenda you want to ignore it and get the "bear spray" but that's the truth. The state, YOU, net more money by getting %30 of the raffle money than they would if the tags were just put in the draw again. That's the inconvenient truth.
 
>Robiland,
>
>That's the truth! You know
>it. Just because it
>doesn't jive with your agenda
>you want to ignore it
>and get the "bear spray"
> but that's the truth.
> The state, YOU, net
>more money by getting %30
>of the raffle money than
>they would if the tags
>were just put in the
>draw again. That's the
>inconvenient truth.


That is not true! I think you should look at things and what the DWR gets from each tag drawn and what the NV company keeps for running the draw for them for the assessed fee before you make such a statement!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-16 AT 06:35PM (MST)[p]Let me see if I have this right...
Utah gets $2.00 from every application in the normal draw and they get 30% or $1.50 (.3 x 5.00) with SFW/MDF via expo.

Using Texas math = net gain? .50 less per application Is a net gain...whole knew!

That is the actual inconvenient truth!
 
OMG! HOW MANY WAYS CAN YOU SPELL ..... LAW SUIT!
LOL!

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
The Divisions Michael Canning and I have been exchanging emails back and forth over the last few days. With Legislators tagged to the our emails to follow along.
Look for an "EXPO FAQ" on the Dwr website coming soon.

I'm glad he took the time to exchange emails although I still don't things will change. Guess we will see.


Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
That's still not the answer although I like the way you are thinking. To calculate you need to know how many people apply person draw tag and how many pay the raffle per tag.
 
One other thing Utah400, if you own a business and you sell a product for $2 and someone comes along and says they will make the product and distribute it and assume all the risk and turn around and give you $1.50 per unit, YOU TAKE THAT DEAL EVERY TIME. That is the most lucrative licensing deal I have ever heard of.
 
>First of all "they" haven't been
>"cought" doing anything. Second,
>I unlike most around here
>will be completely honest with
>you. You asked, I
>will answer.
>
>"Have you lived in Utah?"
>
>No
>
>"Have you worked for any of
>the conservation groups in question?"
>
>
>I have not done work for
>but have donated to and
>have been a member of
>both MDF and RMEF.
>
>"Help me understand why you defend
>this so much, whats your
>ties to this Expo, or
>the people running the show.
>Or are you just one
>of them, pulling a "covert
>op" here. "
>
>There is absolutely nothing covert here.
> I have explained time
>and again to these boys
>why I am here and
>I will tell you.
>I don't care if SFW
>hosts the expo or someone
>else or even if the
>DWR runs it themselves.
>But profiting from the tags
>MUST STAY. It is
>the only way sustainable numbers
>of wildlife will progress into
>the future of the American
>Landscape. Underpriced welfare tags
>for the general public have
>to come to an end.
> Not because I like
>it that way but that
>is the only way the
>big game in the USA
>can be managed at this
>point. All the bickering
>over several hundred thousand dollars
>a year, WHICH IS A
>DROP IN THE BUCKET, could
>cost yall more than most
>can understand.
>
>This is the battle between an
>old system that people grew
>to depend on and a
>new system that is the
>only chance the future of
>conservation and hunting has.
>We have kicked the can
>so far down the road
>I no longer care about
>whether you or anyone else
>for that matter get a
>deer tag in which they
>feel entitled to. The
>wildlife must come first.

Wow just wow!!!

Unbelievable you sir are an idiot. If u truthfully think tags need to be pimped out your are a fool! First off 1 million dollars made
From the expo raffle tags could easily be made up from the Dwr by adding 5$ to an application fee. I don't think anyone has any problem with a governors tag being sold every year for deer and elk I don't like it myself but I'm not gonna throw a tantrum over it. But nearly 300 tags being auctioned off is insane! Let alone another 200 raffled off with only 30% going back to the Dwr. No other state comes
Anywhere near that and their wildlife are not suffering from average joe hunters paying for the tags. Your post is ridiculous and I'm not sure I have any respect for your opinions that tags need to go the rich people only. You are a fool and the North American bg motto is not meant for the rich only to hunt!
 
First of Theox a million dollars ain't going to solve this problem. Your draw hunters are going to have to come up with tens of millions of dollars and what you call the "average hunter" is going to have a problem with that. Second I live in a state where it is pay to play and guess who hunts the most. That's right, regular old middle class citizens. That's who hunts here. Regular old folks who know they have to spend money to do it. They don't feel entitled to it at all. If YOU actually want to drive the cost of hunting down get off your butt and increase the supply.

You asked me specific questions and I gave specific answers so you could just call me names. That is rude and childish of you.
 
>OMG! HOW MANY WAYS CAN YOU
>SPELL ..... LAW SUIT!
>LOL!
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora

Law suit over a you tube video hmmmmmm
 
That is like DeLoss threatening all of us with a lawsuit just minutes before the KUTV News story aired. Pretty funny.

-Hawkeye-
 
DPB
I wasn't being serious. I thought it was funny as I'm sure everyone else did.

Joe

"Sometimes you do things wrong for so long you
think their right" - 2001
"I can't argue with honesty" - 2005
-Joe E Sikora
 
>First of Theox a million dollars
>ain't going to solve this
>problem. Your draw hunters
>are going to have to
>come up with tens of
>millions of dollars and what
>you call the "average hunter"
>is going to have a
>problem with that. Second
>I live in a state
>where it is pay to
>play and guess who hunts
>the most. That's right,
>regular old middle class citizens.
> That's who hunts here.
>Regular old folks who know
>they have to spend money
>to do it. They
>don't feel entitled to it
>at all. If YOU
>actually want to drive the
>cost of hunting down get
>off your butt and increase
>the supply.
>
>You asked me specific questions and
>I gave specific answers so
>you could just call me
>names. That is rude
>and childish of you.

Please explain your "pay to play" remark as it pertains to Texas residents vs. Utah residents and the finances available to wildlife. You insinuate that Texans are paying more per person for the opportunity to hunt than Utahns but I don't see it on the Texas Parks and Wildlife website.

First of all, a Texas resident hunting license is $25.

Then, like Utah, there are numerous draws and hunts, including over the counter, but I see that the costs are similar to Utah's.

For instance, application fees for the draw hunts on WMA's are $3 each with an adult fee of $80 to $130 (youth 8-16 are free) and you're allowed as many as 5 deer (mostly antlerless with 1 buck) and unlimited feral hogs and exotics.

The annual permit/license for walk-in areas, some public and some private is $48 and you're allowed to hunt deer, quail, rabbits, waterfowl, etc.

Maybe you're referring to the access fees you may have to pay to hunt on private land, but we don't have that problem (at least not yet), but anyway those fees go to the landowners and very little of that money, if any, ends up in the Texas Parks and Wildlife coffers.

Additionally, the federal money, per the Pittman-Robertson Act (and the Dingall-Johnson Act for fishing) is distributed proportionally equally per hunter and I pay as much to Texas as I do to Utah. (Actually more, because Texas is bigger.)

Bottom line, Utahns effectively pay to play about as much a Texans,

And, FWIW, we aren't trying to run the cost of hunting down, we're just trying to keep it from running up without verified results! Thanks, but I, for one, think I'll decline your offer to help us.
 
>DPB
>I wasn't being serious. I thought
>it was funny as I'm
>sure everyone else did.
>
>Joe
>
>"Sometimes you do things wrong for
>so long you
>think their right" - 2001
>"I can't argue with honesty" -
>2005
>-Joe E Sikora


Ya I know joe and yes it was accurate as well as hilarious
 

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